What is this thing called carbon tax?

[pancho]

 I have no problem with general discussion on any subject, including the jokes subject. I don't see what's wrong with these side issues being discussed.
 Why I even look at other subjects that I can have little input in, such as sidecars, enduro, maico etc etc but they are not my main interests.
 My main topics of interest are dirt track, fotos, and people, in no particular order.
 I like to talk a lot [as people who know me will attest], and I like to know a little bit about everything. This forum fills the bill.
 Double cheers pancho.
 

[crash n bern]

I totally agree with you Pancho. I did that last post as a tongue in cheek.  I never even look at the joke thread but it doesn't bother me that it's there.
I like to talk a lot too.  I have no interest in dirt track, but it wouldn't stop me talking to you about dirt track all day.  I did get to watch a historic dirt track race meet at the Davenport Iowa historic Harley swap meet a few years back.  They even had a few old veterans on 1930's Harley's racing that night.  They usually don't race much as the bikes are now worth big dollars.

[Lozza]

'The Cutting Edge' on SBS on tuesday night is about the essence of this debate. I think it's called 'Science under attack'

[firko]

I think you're misunderstanding my point fellas. I'm not so much in opposition to the carbon tax or GFC threads. My main point is that when a carbon tax thread becomes the main thread on the forum we're losing our way from the days when this was the biggest and best on the 'net. Believe it or not, people come on here to communicate with like minded fellow old dirt bike owners and to pick up tips and see some cool bikes or learn how to polish plastic or whatever. When they log on and see the three quarters of that days posts are about global warming and other non VMX specific subjects, they often eventually move away. Sure it's an impportant subject but when guys are continually posting on that thread and contributing SFA to the main focus of the forum we've most definitely lost our way.

Surely the mass exodus of people over the last year must make you wonder why they've left? Don't you think that this loss of focus has at least something to do with it? Maybe it's me, maybe I can't see why everyone is getting so pumped on this, maybe I'm missing something?

[motomaniac]

I think you're misunderstanding my point fellas. I'm not so much in opposition to the carbon tax or GFC threads. My main point is that when a carbon tax thread becomes the main thread on the forum we're losing our way from the days when this was the biggest and best on the 'net. Believe it or not, people come on here to communicate with like minded fellow old dirt bike owners and to pick up tips and see some cool bikes or learn how to polish plastic or whatever. When they log on and see the three quarters of that days posts are about global warming and other non VMX specific subjects, they often eventually move away. Sure it's an impportant subject but when guys are continually posting on that thread and contributing SFA to the main focus of the forum we've most definitely lost our way.

Surely the mass exodus of people over the last year must make you wonder why they've left? Don't you think that this loss of focus has at least something to do with it? Maybe it's me, maybe I can't see why everyone is getting so pumped on this, maybe I'm missing something?

'there are none so blind as those who can't see'

[AjayVMX]

I think you're misunderstanding my point fellas. I'm not so much in opposition to the carbon tax or GFC threads. My main point is that when a carbon tax thread becomes the main thread on the forum we're losing our way from the days when this was the biggest and best on the 'net. Believe it or not, people come on here to communicate with like minded fellow old dirt bike owners and to pick up tips and see some cool bikes or learn how to polish plastic or whatever. When they log on and see the three quarters of that days posts are about global warming and other non VMX specific subjects, they often eventually move away. Sure it's an impportant subject but when guys are continually posting on that thread and contributing SFA to the main focus of the forum we've most definitely lost our way.

Surely the mass exodus of people over the last year must make you wonder why they've left? Don't you think that this loss of focus has at least something to do with it? Maybe it's me, maybe I can't see why everyone is getting so pumped on this, maybe I'm missing something?

Firko,

With the greatest of respect, I think you're barking up the wrong tree in this instance.

The forum has definitely lost some of it's "characters" over the last 2 years, but this hasn't been, in my opinion, due to a lack of passion about VMX stuff.  It has been about a background of conflict and just plain mean mindedness shown by some members to others.  That has worn many people down (including yourself, twice) and those people may never return.

As for the carbon Tax debate, I for one wish we weren't even having a debate at all... (we shouldn't be, if our prime minisiter had done what she promised before the election) 

[vmx42]

I for one wish we weren't even having a debate at all... (we shouldn't be, if our prime minisiter had done what she promised before the election) 

If only she had said it was a "non-core promise" then all would be good… or as old Joh said - "they are all the same these different people".



P.S. and debate is always good. It is those who try to stifle debate you should be worried about.

[firko]

debate is always good. It is those who try to stifle debate you should be worried about.

With the greatest of respect, I think you're barking up the wrong tree in this instance.

I love a good political debate as anyone who's spent much time with me will agree. I also think that the GFC and Carbon Tax debates are important and worth sturdy disection and discussion. However my 'problem' is that I believe that this forum isn't the place to spend 26 pages debating it. I believe this forum was created for like minded classic dirt bike enthusiasts to meet and discuss everything to do with our sport. Sure, there are the occasional left turns towards football, cars and even what's on TV but these little side tracks usually peter out after 5 or 10 posts. What prompted my concern ocurred a few days ago when I logged on to find that nearly every post that particular day was either for the Carbon Tax or GFC threads. The actual dirt bike contribution that day was saved by the dirt track guys and their photo posts. In other words, the nucleus of that days forum activity was alien to the original intent of the forum. If I didn't see anything on there concerning old bikes that I'd like to read about, what about a potential newbie or some of the less forthright in our vintage community. There's a good chance many would opt out and surf on to something else.

It's the same with the arguments, slags and personal shit fights. If that behaviour is a good thing for promoting our sport, I'll stand naked on the town hall steps. It really used to shit me seeing so-called funny guys slagging off other blokes bikes and their choices of parts used. The continuing slagging of Marcs oddball Suzuki 125 swingarm, and other stuff relating to his often left field view of our sport is annoying to me and I'm sure him. People need to be supported for their projects, not criticised. Dalesween posted elsewhere that he wanted to post photos of his project but didn't because he was afraid of it getting slagged by the usual suspects. How many others have felt the same aprehension and held back from joining in for fear of being 'judged'?

If discussing politics on a VMX forum is a legitimate thing, it must now be OK to dedicate a couple of pages of VMX magazine to discussing politics. Maybe Laurie Oakes or Andrew Bolt could be approached to pound out a few words, or if they aren't available I'm sure Nathan could cover the gig.

[Graeme M]

I'd pay extra to see a regular column from Nathan...

[Freakshow]

IF people cant race cause they cant afford to after paying all these new taxes and are getting squeezed even harder.... isnt that grounds for any debate or topic infomation release    

i wouldnt have read half of this topic, im just venting.  venting it free.  if you choose to read it thats free too.

[vmx42]

debate is always good. It is those who try to stifle debate you should be worried about.

With the greatest of respect, I think you're barking up the wrong tree in this instance.

I love a good political debate as anyone who's spent much time with me will agree. I also think that the GFC and Carbon Tax debates are important and worth sturdy disection and discussion. However my 'problem' is that I believe that this forum isn't the place to spend 26 pages debating it. I believe this forum was created for like minded classic dirt bike enthusiasts to meet and discuss everything to do with our sport. Sure, there are the occasional left turns towards football, cars and even what's on TV but these little side tracks usually peter out after 5 or 10 posts. What prompted my concern ocurred a few days ago when I logged on to find that nearly every post that particular day was either for the Carbon Tax or GFC threads. The actual dirt bike contribution that day was saved by the dirt track guys and their photo posts. In other words, the nucleus of that days forum activity was alien to the original intent of the forum. If I didn't see anything on there concerning old bikes that I'd like to read about, what about a potential newbie or some of the less forthright in our vintage community. There's a good chance many would opt out and surf on to something else.

It's the same with the arguments, slags and personal shit fights. If that behaviour is a good thing for promoting our sport, I'll stand naked on the town hall steps. It really used to shit me seeing so-called funny guys slagging off other blokes bikes and their choices of parts used. The continuing slagging of Marcs oddball Suzuki 125 swingarm, and other stuff relating to his often left field view of our sport is annoying to me and I'm sure him. People need to be supported for their projects, not criticised. Dalesween posted elsewhere that he wanted to post photos of his project but didn't because he was afraid of it getting slagged by the usual suspects. How many others have felt the same aprehension and held back from joining in for fear of being 'judged'?

If discussing politics on a VMX forum is a legitimate thing, it must now be OK to dedicate a couple of pages of VMX magazine to discussing politics. Maybe Laurie Oakes or Andrew Bolt could be approached to pound out a few words, or if they aren't available I'm sure Nathan could cover the gig.

Hey Firko,
Feel free to disagree, good luck to you.

The fact that is that this thread has muddled along for so long is not for you or I to comment, it has taken on a life of its own, fueled by contributions from OzVMX members - that is what a Forum is all about.

For the most part it has been been a simple exchange of ideas, nobody has gotten their noses out of joint an I can't remember any particularly personal comments. If that offends you, then that is your problem. It is a big and enormously complicated issue and if tossing a few ideas out there for comment on OzVMX helps then that is just fine with me. As many other posters have said - "if you don't want to read it then don't click on the link".

IMHO the slagging seems to have really calmed down over the last few weeks and I can see some of the old forum feel returning. I have followed this thread and the GFC one, whilst also keeping up to date with the Yamamaico and Suzuki swingarm stories. All good and with a bit of humour as well.

If discussing politics on a VMX forum is a legitimate thing, it must now be OK to dedicate a couple of pages of VMX magazine to discussing politics. Maybe Laurie Oakes or Andrew Bolt could be approached to pound out a few words, or if they aren't available I'm sure Nathan could cover the gig.

You could always use your column to try to enlighten us with your insights on these kind of topics. And maybe, just maybe it would get published - but I wouldn't be holding my breath.





_{P.S. and you should also enjoy the irony of extending this slowly dying thread with your comments that you know quite well will illicit responses and thereby contributing to the life of the thread you obviously hate.}

[firko]

P.S. and you should also enjoy the irony of extending this slowly dying thread with your comments that you know quite well will illicit responses and thereby contributing to the life of the thread you obviously hate.

That's irony in its purest form! I'm done on this whinge, there's nothing more I can add. The class bully has gone to wherever twisted little pricks hibernate, Doc's back and the forum vibe has noticably gone up a few degrees, all that was needed was a bit of a wake up call. All I need is a new date for my postponed surgery, a new water pump for my beloved Jagwah and my world will have returned to being a beautiful place.

[Davey Crocket]

Mark, that swingarm is/was/will be, alway's ugly.... .....mArc with a C loves it and thats all that matters aannd he know's where just taking the piss.... ......Now what about the new paring of Steve Williams and Adam Scott.....Aussie and Kiwi combination that hopefully will smoke em for a few years...that cotton picker from down south will be still choking on his crawdagg's and grits  .

[firko]

mArc with a C loves it and thats all that matters aannd he know's where just taking the piss....

John,I know you're taking the piss, and Marc probably does too but I know for a fact that there a quite a few who think you're for real and because of that are aprehensive about showing off their pride and joy.
Nobody likes being told their missus is ugly even if she is, we still love her despite the funny growths and moustache. It's the same with bikes, nobody likes being told their pride and joy is a piece of shit or ugly. god only knows my bikes are out of left field and not to everyones taste but I hate it being told they're ugly. I hid the Hindall in the tent at CD8 because even I thought it was ugly and knew I'd cop shit for it. 

[Marc.com]

Nobody likes being told their missus is ugly even if she is, we still love her despite the funny growths and moustache. 

youve met the missus then Firko  .... you know you don't call a thread "Swingarm of the Gods" without expecting a bit of a wind up .... but WTF I kind of built that RM125 for shits and giggles and ended up really pleased with the way it turned out ..... believe it or not I have had a very good cash offer for it from a guy in Japan 

I just try and take it on the chin and hide my disappointment at not having a 'real HL' owning an ugly swingarm and possibly having dated the girl hanging off that Harley