What is this thing called carbon tax?

[mx250]

http://news.yahoo.com/nasa-data-blow-gaping-hold-global-warming-alarmism-192334971.html

That is very, very interesting.

If its true its a game-changer.

A very selective view on a balanced report.

http://www.mdpi.com/2072-4292/3/8/1603/pdf

Wonder who  'The Heartland Institute' is? Not exactly a pillar of scientific knowledge, but a collection of right wing nutters with way WAY too much money.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Heartland_Institute

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Heartland_Institute
http://millermps.wordpress.com/2011/04/12/beware-of-the-heartland-institute-brought-to-you-in-part-by-the-koch-brothers/
The list is very very long...................................

Well I tell you what, the evil Heartland Institute with or without "way WAY too much money" write a lot more clearly then the double double talk of Roy W. Spencer and William D. Braswell - full of ifs, mights, partly's and maybes. 

And I think their fundamental objection........

"We hypothesize that changes in the coupled ocean-atmosphere circulation during the El Niño and La Niña phases of ENSO
cause differing changes in cloud cover, which then modulate the radiative balance of the climate system. "

.....is unsound. Its a ten year study which should be enough to allow for cloud variations and other weather cycles.

You might question the objectivity of the Heartland Institute but I would question the objectivity and integrity of the whole academic and scientific world. None are above the bass needs of self importance and feathering the own nests - including particularly Tim Flannery.   

[Nathan S]

The propaganda war is in full swing - at this point in time, no single article or youtube clip is going to convince anyone of anything (in either direction) - all these articles do, is rally the troops.

Personally, I'm still happy to accept the science for a number of reasons. The most significant of them (because I got bored with typing):
1. The "humans cause climate change" argument has been consistant for at least 21 years now, with only one moderate change of tack ("global warming" became "climate change") and they were fairly upfront about that - "Yep, working out differently to what we expected".
In contrast, the sceptics have grasped and shuffled for any reason/excuse: Solar flares, natural cycles, volcanoes, etc. The deniers still can't settle on a reason why the climate is changing, or even if it is changing at all. If there was a solid reason, it would be pretty much universal among the sceptics, rather tha this hugely piecemeal approach we currently have.

2. "Nature is causing it, nothing we can do, let's got to the pub".
If you were standing at the bottom of a hill, and a large rock suddenly (naturally) dislodged and began rolling toward you, you'd make sure it didn't flatten you.
But when it comes to climate change, the term "natural event" is somehow a magic spell that means it can't possibly hurt us?! (Just like tsunamis and earthquakes and fires never hurt us).
To me, this betrays the desire to discredit human-caused global warming

3. Contrary to the claims about feathering nests, the real money is in being a sceptic. Its really quite self-evident when you think about who has the money and who has the motivation to tell us that everything is OK and coal and gas and oil are awesome...
Further, the scientists I know are all straight-laced nerds. Idiots like Prue McSween claiming (with a straight face) that "95% of scientists have been bought off" is particularly laughable if you've spent any time in a place like CSIRO.
Hell, even if they weren't nerds, who has the motivation to buy off that many people? Who could do it without having anyone blabbing about it? Who has the cash to do it? Nobody could do any one of those three things, much less all three at once.

4. Regardless of whether Climate Change is a load of shit or not, we are currently entirely dependant on non-renewable resources. At some stage in the relatively near future, these resources will begin to shoot up in price - the laws of supply and demand will make the currently untapped wells economically viable, but it will come at a significant and rapidly increasing cost to consumers. At some stage beyond that, they will essentially run out, and we will need to have large scale alternatives in place.
To more toward those alternatives now, will both prolong the supply of cheap non-renewables and will make the impact of their depletion so much less painful.

Until a sceptic can address those thoughts in a coherent manner, I will remain highly sceptical of the sceptics.

[AjayVMX]

As always, missing the point entirely.  At the risk of repeating myself...

It doesn't matter if you believe in human activity affecting climate change or not.  Scepticism is irrelevant.

All that matters is that China (and probably India as well) is intending to dramatically INCREASE it's emissions of C02 in the foreseeable future and nothing that Australia does (including stopping all economic activity) will have any effect whatsoever in offsetting the increase in emissions that China is forecast to add to the atmosphere.

It is fundamentally pointless for Australia to do anything about climate change until ALL the world's emitters are singing from the same songsheet.

It's a global problem, not a local one.

[Graeme M]

Nathan, your reply shows that you, like most of us, haven't researched the case at all. I have and I've barely scratched the surface. To offer a cogent reply would take me pages, which I shan't do.

The shame of it is that of course most people will be like you - they don't have the time or the inclination to do the research so they are unable to make a sound judgement.

But it probably doesn't matter because if you aren't a climate scientist you aren't going to understand it well enough anyway. Rather, you will simply go with your gut feel. You clearly think global warming is a problem. I don't. Which of us is right? Only time will tell.

However you are right in one respect - the science on the whole tells us it is happening, and if I were the government, that's the view I would have to act upon. That said, I think we are now seeing more scientists willing to analyse the matter in a more objective manner. If it isn't happening as has been described, then the next few years will see that brought out and the paradigm will shift. If that hasn't happened by say 2015 then I think we can accept the science is strong.

But on the carbon tax issue, in my view Ajay yet again is spot on. It is, quite simply, the wrong response for Australia.

[the stig]

As always, missing the point entirely.  At the risk of repeating myself...

It doesn't matter if you believe in human activity affecting climate change or not.  Scepticism is irrelevant.

All that matters is that China (and probably India as well) is intending to dramatically INCREASE it's emissions of C02 in the foreseeable future and nothing that Australia does (including stopping all economic activity) will have any effect whatsoever in offsetting the increase in emissions that China is forecast to add to the atmosphere.

It is fundamentally pointless for Australia to do anything about climate change until ALL the world's emitters are singing from the same songsheet.

It's a global problem, not a local one.

                X 2      This is just another scare campaign from the Fabian university and
   left wing labour  and Greens..

   The Stig...

[Mike52]

Bit of a quandary guys. We've just had our warmest winters day in 36 years in some places and in 138 years in others.
What does this mean ?
What is the correct temperature/climate.

It really does make a mockery of mans attempts to understand the climate.

The EXPERTS are so condescending  when it comes to climate change but the fact is nobody really has a clue.
We can argue our nuts off but without any intelligent data the whole thing is just a bad bad joke.

[AjayVMX]

Bit of a quandary guys. We've just had our warmest winters day in 36 years in some places and in 138 years in others.
What does this mean ?
What is the correct temperature/climate.

It really does make a mockery of mans attempts to understand the climate.

The EXPERTS are so condescending  when it comes to climate change but the fact is nobody really has a clue.
We can argue our nuts off but without any intelligent data the whole thing is just a bad bad joke.

Probably the easiest way to understand the Earth's climate is that it is constantly changing...  it may be because of man's industrial activity, but it also could be because of the extremely complex interrelationships of ocean currents, solar activity and the variations in the orbit of the planet.

And yes, we had the coldest day on record in SE QLD on the Thursday before CD8.  So is it warming or cooling??? 

[worms]

more important!

has anyone got a copy of a wiring diagram for a 1977 DT 400 yamaha,


take the word carbon out and what do you have, A TAX, thats it!!!!!! nothing more, nothing less. the current government cant balance their books and will never have surplus on Australias international debt, est 81 billion, but they throw around a surplus on budget forcasts.  IT's a new tax with the emotion of the enviroment attached to satisfy the Greens.

Now, have any of you VMXers got a diagram for me, or has this forum gone to the dogs.

Cheers Worms

[Graeme M]

The weather is largely a chaotic system Mike, and hence over the short period for which we have an instrumental record we will continue to see records in one way or another, simply because we haven't actually experienced the full gamut of possible conditions. The first week or so of August traditionally produces an Indian summer followed by colder, and here at least in Canberra, invariably wetter conditions. I first noticed that in 1992, my second winter in canberra after leaving Qld. The cold just went on and on, and then we had this beautiful warm week. I remember getting out my brand new Lucky Strike replica RGV250 and going for a quick blast around the suburbs after work, it was that nice. Of course the following week was crap...

Is it warming or cooling? Globally the figures show a somewhat static state since the super El Nino of 1998. The last year or so has been cooler due to La Nina but the temp anomalies are on the rise again. How is it on the ground in Australia? On the whole, cooler and wetter than the past few years. The skeptics reckon we'll see cooling for the next 20 years, with another La Nina early next year. The pro-AGW crowd reckon the opposite naturally though they have trotted out the airborne sulphates from China as an explanation for the recent cooling (or more exactly, non-warming). Personally, I am keen to see how this year's northern winter pans out.

Worms, I probably do have a wiring diagram cos I think I have a Clymer manual for the DT enduros.

[vmx42]

Probably the easiest way to understand the Earth's climate is that it is constantly changing...  it may be because of man's industrial activity, but it also could be because of the extremely complex interrelationships of ocean currents, solar activity and the variations in the orbit of the planet.

Job done!!!!

Tell all the scientists and researchers to go home, no need to worry, problem solved – "Stuff Happens".

Why didn't anybody think of that before. Doh!






Now to get to work on solving the GFC… Hold on, same answer – "Stuff Happens". Man this really has been a very productive mornings work.

[Mike52]

more important!
has anyone got a copy of a wiring diagram for a 1977 DT 400 yamaha,
Now, have any of you VMXers got a diagram for me, or has this forum gone to the dogs.
Cheers Worms

I think I have one Worms and I,ve put it in a safe place along with my gun licence  and I'me going nuts trying to find them.

[Nathan S]

Nathan, your reply shows that you, like most of us, haven't researched the case at all.  

On the contrary. My post was specifically avoiding the impossiby muddied waters of the science and pseudo-science - as I said, any battle of internet links, research papers and youtube clips will never reach a conclusion.

Instead, I was focusing on the more transparent points that surrond the issue. To me, they paint a clear picture of people who are resisting change, and who are looking for ways/excuses to avoid that change.
Ajay's response demonstrated it beautifully - a few pages ago, Climate Change was a hoax, but now its a global problem. The multitude of wildly varied arguments always end at the same point: Do nothing.
To me, this clearly betrays the true motivation of the skeptics.

[Graeme M]

That's not an accurate interpretation of Ajay's position. My take of what he's said is that the CAGW scare is a 'hoax', that is, the degree of impact will be nothing like that which is portrayed and that climate is hugely variable. However, if we DO accept the CAGW position and decide as a country to act, we shouldn't be doing it alone or out front. We are too small a player to have any great impact, and acting early and courageously may in fact be detrimental to our wellbeing economically. In other words, the risk outweighs the benefits while we go it alone.

More importantly, are you going to the Rockley vinduro?

[Nathan S]

I hope so. Maybe only one day.
Really depends on whether I can make the time to turn the KDX back into a bike (its currently looking very secondhand after Harrow).

[firko]

After 25 pages of lurking this thread in the hope of getting my head around the global warming thing I'm still none the wiser and despite all of the pro and anti argument put forward here I don't think any of you have the answer either.

I just wish you enviromental scientists would put the same amount of thought and effort into contributing subject mater pertaining to the focus of this forum...OLD DIRT BIKES. Maybe you haven't noticed but while you guys were saving the world from carbon dioxide poisoning, the forum is quickly turning to shit. Yeah I know, "If you're not interested, don't read it" is the usual comeback..I've often said it myself in the past, but in the end OZVMX is not a global warming scientific theory think tank, it's a forum for us scientific Philistines to discuss old dirt bikes, an escape from the mind numbing stuff that pervades every other section of our social media these days. If you guys put as much intelligent writing and argument into discussing classic dirt bikes as you have on the carbon tax it just might quell the growing number of punters who are leaving the forum for good.

It's not that you're all contributing to a global warming thread that's the problem.....the real problem is that you're not posting interesting and relevent posts to do with old dirt bikes.