What is this thing called carbon tax?

[Mike52]

Mike, have you looked at how much the carbon tax is going to cost you? Sounds like you'll end up in front.

Yes Nathan through my foresight I will be in front BUT you have to factor other peoples lack thereof and general incompetence.
When I do that I start to worry. I look into the future Nathan and it,s not looking so good.
In business you make practices more efficient ,increasing profit and cutting costs , in Government the money,s not yours so who gives a stuff and you can pass your inability to think creatively onto the tax/rate payer in the form of ever higher costs.
Before you say , "that,s growth"  remember that the index has only risen a couple of percent not in my case 30%.

[oldfart]

Nathan , single handed you will save this world.  Let it go and get on with life and enjoy it .

[bigk]

The world's stuffed, big brother can get fu%$ed and we should all copy the politician's mantra of get all I can while the gettins' good. Maybe lifes recent events have left me a tad cynical, but it's just a money grabbing, dog eat dog, society, so best everyone fight back however they can, and don't take it on the chin for one second longer. I was always taught to behave no matter what, but it seems to be a lost cause these days.
K

[Nathan S]

Nathan , single handed you will save this world. 

Glad someone has finally noticed. 

[motomaniac]

The world's stuffed, big brother can get fu%$ed and we should all copy the politician's mantra of get all I can while the gettins' good. Maybe lifes recent events have left me a tad cynical, but it's just a money grabbing, dog eat dog, society, so best everyone fight back however they can, and don't take it on the chin for one second longer. I was always taught to behave no matter what, but it seems to be a lost cause these days.
K

 K ,you are right to be cynical about this - everyone except the elite will get reemed and is getting reemed .No use behaving when the hypocrites telling us to are signing Gas fracking contract to overseas companies behind our backs and emitting more carbon than all of us at a VMX meet in one international flight . Rebel .See you at Shep?

[motomaniac]

Nathan , single handed you will save this world.

from freedom and self determination.

[Nathan S]

Nathan , single handed you will save this world.

from freedom and self determination.

What happened to not being a petty little twit?

[Graeme M]

Getting close to being snipped you guys. If you want to contribute, keep to the issues. Play the ball, not the man please.

[mx250]

1. The big polluters have - and continue to-  contribute to our society. But we've also realised that its not all roses, and this is a moderate way to reign in their pollution output. Its not like they've been told to shut the doors and walk away (despite what Abbott might tell you).
If any of the big polluters really, seriously look like leaving Australia, watch the govt bend over backwards to get them to stay...
We all know that its about bluff at this stage.

The rhetoric about "big polluters" is primarily about making it palatable to the average punter. The policy would be fairer and more effective if they put a (significantly lower rate of) tax on ALL emissions - but that would be political suicide...

2. A tax is actually a good solution from a libertarian point of view. It doesn't force anyone to do anything, so people can choose to continue to be gross consumers if they wish. At the same time, it provides incentive for the average punter to reduce their consumption.
Look at how many Canberran homes are still being built without eves or insulation (both representing tiny portions of the cost of a new house, and less than the difference in a few years' power bills) - the additional cost of the tax is intended to make people think about these things, rather than simply continuing their consumption.

3. Why shouldn't Australia lead? Other countries can rightly point out our huge per-capita emissions, and use it as an excuse to do nothing themselves.
Regardless of what you think of Climate Change, there's no doubt that coal, oil and gas are finite resources. When they begin to run out/get very expensive, the countries that are least dependent on them will have the easiest ride.

4. I don’t want to have to change either. I'd love to be able to continue living a life where I can get upset when petrol gets to $1.50/litre, and a 10% increase in power bills is a household catastrophe... but its not gonna happen - sometime in my kids' lifetimes (and probably within my own lifetime), such complaints are going to seem incredibly trivial.
I'd prefer a small amount of pain now, to minimise the real pain later.

High ideals, an attempt at the moral high ground, but really just a forlorn hope. The issue is not the lack of will it is the lack of technology.

The Carbon Tax hasn't and won't make one iota of a difference to global warming. It is the senseless policy of The Labor Party to suck up to the emotionally panicked Greens - it is a cynical political move to hold on to power.

[Nathan S]

....The issue is not the lack of will it is the lack of technology.

Its a lack of will not pushing technology.
We won't pay an extra 2% to make our new houses 50% more energy efficient.

But maybe the desire to minimise the tax we pay, will be enough to start getting people to actually think about the impact they're having on the environment.
But hey, if you really don't care, then you can pay more and not have your 'freedoms' impinged upon.

[bigk]

Planning to be at Shep Brett, and will be using "special" fuel with heaps of lead! Sorry (not) in advance to anyone who believes in excess in carbon impact.
K

[mx250]

Its a lack of will not pushing technology.

And Carbon Tax will achieve this how? Carbon Tax has not and will not achieve the technological advances needed, on the scale needed and in the time frame needed. Wishful thinking; forlorn hope.

We need direct action, planning and capitalizing - think WW2 and the advances in aircraft technology, medicine and nuclear physics brought on by a War Cabinet and private industry. We need clear thinking and leadership.

\
We won't pay an extra 2% to make our new houses 50% more energy efficient.

50% more energy efficient housing is 'fiddling while Rome burns' (especially when based on expensive inefficient and probably unsustainable technologies) Think Zero Emission Base Load energy on an economy wide scale and you're getting warm (no pun intended ).

But maybe the desire to minimise the tax we pay, will be enough to start getting people to actually think about the impact they're having on the environment.
But hey, if you really don't care, then you can pay more and not have your 'freedoms' impinged upon.

You're not listening are you? Show where I have whinged about extra taxes. I have whinged that its a dumb tax and a dumb policy proven not to make an iota of a difference to Global Warming.

The whole premise to use Market forces to achieve Environmental policy if dumb, faulty and naive. 

There are plenty of examples of policies having been brought in on dumb, faulty and naive thinking and 'sold' on a lie. I can think of several but the most topical would be Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac. The Yanks thought they were too cleaver by half and would use market forces, control the price (interest) of lending, to achieve a change in Housing policy.  It was always faulty (and still is) but it took 20 years to implode.

The morass and distortion that the Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac policy caused to the American economy is still present today and the Yanks are so 'locked in' to this large scale dumb, faulty and naive policy they still haven't gotten from under it or it's effects. And it's worst than that. For various self interest reasons they haven't and won't admit the policy's failure and short comings. They are still prop up Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac with various govt guarantees.

And that's the 20-40 year history I predict for Carbon Tax. It will not achieve the aim and once we start down the trail we won't be able to easily turn back. It will take a unmitigated  disaster to change. Carbon Tax will get its own self interest group (like Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac has) with power and position to continually 'muddy the waters'.

[AjayVMX]

I saw some interesting questions floating around yesterday... 

Someone asked: "how can the government model the cost in living / compensation equation to an accuracy of 20c per household, when they can't remotely keep control of government programmes which spend (and ultimately waste) billions of dollars?"

Someone also asked: "Where does the replacement baseload 2000MW power supply come from when they shut down the brown coal power station in VIC?"  Also, where's the money in the plan for that?  Not there, no plan.

Hmm, maybe we could build a nuclear power plant or three and REALLY reduce emissions... 

nah, that would be too logical. 

[mx250]

I saw some interesting questions floating around yesterday... 

Someone asked: "how can the government model the cost in living / compensation equation to an accuracy of 20c per household, when they can't remotely keep control of government programmes which spend (and ultimately waste) billions of dollars?"

Someone also asked: "Where does the replacement baseload 2000MW power supply come from when they shut down the brown coal power station in VIC?"  Also, where's the money in the plan for that?  Not there, no plan.

Hmm, maybe we could build a nuclear power plant or three and REALLY reduce emissions... 

nah, that would be too logical. 

I keep saying 'they are selling it on a lie' .

Both sides of politics treat the voters with disdain and disrespect, treating them as though they are stupid, self interested and greedy .

Howard 'tested the waters' bringing up the notion of Nuclear power generation and we saw the hysteria that caused .

[Nathan S]

I think it is increasingly obvious that nuclear power has to be seriously considered. At least we have the advantage of being able to put the power plant and its waste in some desolate wasteland, miles from civilisation, like the back of Bourke or Ipswich.

Edit: Not ignoring your post, MX. Just beyond my attention span when looking after the kids and internetting on my phone.