What is this thing called carbon tax?

[Rossvickicampbell]

I am a little slow to answer as I am just making a diary note - it isn't every day we agree Jeff!!!  Mate - 100% behind your comments - I agree that acting on climate change is a win/win - so rather than repeat your comments my feelings are exactly the same.  I just get disapponted when the seriousness of climate change (or any other serious point for that matter) gets used as an excuse by ANY government to be a revenue raiser - I hate policitians!!!

Maybe urban myth but I have been told one of the reasons why we need to put so much effort into nuclear power is that the research into fission energy is leading us closer and closer to fusion energy which is clean and has no waste.  One can only hope.  But as for any solution all the eggs shouldn't be in the one basket - wind power, solar power and the one I think is als0 looking more and more practical (as they all do as the need arises) is tidal power.  We can't keep "destroying" mother earth (and some people could argue about degrees but I think we are) as eventually it will come and bite us.

Jeff - are you going to the Nats?  Maybe we could catch up for that beer 

cheers

Rossco

[Mike52]

Ok.
I,ll tell you what I,ve done and why I resent being told by the EXPERTS that I am doing wrong.

Lived in the bush for 20/25 years using NO electricity for my household.
Moved into town , bought a block and [I/me]  built this house using materials bought from the auctions and designed it using the lessons learnt in the bush. [ Had some interesting arguments with the engineers doing the drawings because they couldn,t understand the ideas behind the structural stuff ]


Talking about climate change is one thing doing something practical is a different matter.
Wanted to fit LED lights but was told that I had to use fluro,s. [ beginning of the understanding that the experts were a little sloooow]
Then applied to install a composting toilet [ what,s that?]
They want you to use less water but are reluctant to think outside the box.
I have since been told by a council plumber mate that they really want you to use more water because that,s where the money comes from.
This house cost me $32000 in materials. Labour was free . Nearly killed me.
This house [ workshop included ] uses 64% LESS electricity than the local average.
It uses stuff all water compared with the local average and these EXPERTS want to slap a Co2 tax on me . Piss off.

[vmx42]

…gets used as an excuse by ANY government to be a revenue raiser - I hate policitians!!!

Hey Rosco,
It is not just that they try to use it as a revenue raiser [as revenue has to come from somewhere - or out of thin air if you are the Mad Monk].

What pisses me off when important issues are used as political footballs, or used to pit one section of society against another. It is not about the issue at hand, it is only about the politicians and their need for power and when you add in a complicant and self serving media [shock jocks, Murdoch and his evil empire, et al]. So when you add that into the mix with a bit of public fear mongering and is it any wonder that the truth suffers.

A sad state of affairs really, but then we humans have never really come to grips with pragmatic logic. We think we have, but our primitive instincts and fear of change always over-rides what we know is probably good for us.

The sad thing is no matter what we think we are all along for the same journey, so we might as well enjoy it…  
VMX42

[vmx42]

Ok.
I,ll tell you what I,ve done and why I resent being told by the EXPERTS that I am doing wrong.

Lived in the bush for 20/25 years using NO electricity for my household.
Moved into town , bought a block and [I/me]  built this house using materials bought from the auctions and designed it using the lessons learnt in the bush. [ Had some interesting arguments with the engineers doing the drawings because they couldn,t understand the ideas behind the structural stuff ]

Talking about climate change is one thing doing something practical is a different matter.
Wanted to fit LED lights but was told that I had to use fluro,s. [ beginning of the understanding that the experts were a little sloooow]
Then applied to install a composting toilet [ what,s that?]
They want you to use less water but are reluctant to think outside the box.
I have since been told by a council plumber mate that they really want you to use more water because that,s where the money comes from.
This house cost me $32000 in materials. Labour was free . Nearly killed me.
This house [ workshop included ] uses 64% LESS electricity than the local average.
It uses stuff all water compared with the local average and these EXPERTS want to slap a Co2 tax on me . Piss off.

But Mike for all your good work, you are, sadly in the vast minority.

You have demonstrated that doing the right thing for the right reasons is worthwhile, but for those who don't share your higher goals there needs to be an incentive [or possibly a big stick] to follow your lead.

Is the Carbon Tax the right way forward, I don't really know. But I do know that it will impact you much less than others.

Perhaps instead of resenting being told what you are doing wrong by the Experts - you should be extolling the virtues of your lifestyle to others so they can also minimise the material cost of the Carbon Tax on themselves. You are setting a fine example, don't let it be clouded by your frustration.

VMX42

[bazza]

A forumn gone over to the dark side talking GREEN !!! Meanwhile volcanoes spew more than we save,Have to admit we need to do something just wish the big countries spewing badd ju ju in to the air would join in.

[Iain Cameron]

Ok here is my 2cents worth. Fellow members Im not highly educated 4th form only . My question is if we tax the polluters ,we have to pay more ,the gov then gives us the tax back . What is realy being done except a new layer of gov to administer the tax ! (2) The greens had a total of less than 12% of the vote , How come they can dictate to 78% of us ? . Being a truckie I spend long hours listening to the ABC radio , a few weeks ago on conversation at 11am they had a expert on planetry iceage cycles he stated we are due for another ice age with in the next 1000 to 1500 years and nothing man or woman (sorry Allison) will effect that outcome . To all you members who run companies would you handycap your company against your compeditor , this tax to me is just that a handycap to Australia , Iain

[Mike52]

You are setting a fine example, don't let it be clouded by your frustration.
VMX42

I have never set out to be an example VMX just to do the obvious.
You know that fluros were invented in WW2 ? yet under QLD law more than 40% of house lighting must now be fluro,s. So the rule makers are what ,70 years behind the times.
The frustration comes from the roadblocks put in the way of anyone trying to do the right thing.
The latest here in Qld is a minimum electricity charge. No figure has been set yet but what,s the bet that I will have to pay more.
 I would hate to have spent money on solar panels.
We used less water so the price went up

Leadership starts at the top.
If we have a climate problem then it cannot be fixed from the bottom up , it must come from the top down.
The idea is to reward those doing the right thing not penalize them.
Yep I,me pissed. Our leaders are quarterwits and a lot of them need reminding to breathe.
Angry Mike.

[Nathan S]

Mike, what sort of leadership do you want if you're unhappy with a revenue positive, largely avoidable carbon tax?
Look, I really respect what you've done and have been making (tentative) steps toward something similar myself.
But I don't understand why you're upset by a carbon tax that you'll largely avoid because of the choices you've made.
The sad reality is that a lot of the mainstream outrage is from people who still hold onto the 1950s notion that consumption directly relates to success - that reducing their consumption will somehow make them inherently worse off, which is utter nonsense.

[bazza]

who gets the money from the carbon tax?
What is it spent on?

[vmx42]

I have never set out to be an example VMX just to do the obvious.

Geeez Mike,
It was a compliment, but somehow I seem to have offended you again!! 
You really are angry aren't you? 
VMX42

[Mike52]

I will never see the sort of government that I would like  Nathan.
Someone who puts their country and people first , HA what a joke.

Na lets have a new Tax ,that,s easier than actually doing something and we,ll have more money to hide the fact that we,re incompetent and we can put more of our mates in fake jobs which will increase our voter base keeping us in our cushy brain dead jobs.
 4 office staff for every worker in Qld Health ,you have got to be joking.

New taxes DO NOT WORK . IE --> The GST , remember what the original concept was ? State Governments were to get the extra money and they did. Are we better off ? Here in QLD we,re broke even with all that extra money and don,t blame acts of GOD because we were broke before that.

Where,s the thermal power stations in every town ?  Where,s the foresight , the LEADERSHIP ?
We have the technology right now to make small thermal power stations and if I had some money I,d stick one in my backyard. [ If they,d let me of course]
Drill a hole , stick a pelter device down it and instant enviro friendly power all the time.
Oh shit how would you tax that ?
 
If you are trying new ideas a composting toilet will save you heaps of water Nathan. Takes a bit of getting used to and a bit of work , the women don,t like it but is very enviro friendly.

I have never been offended by your comments VMX and I apologize if I have given that impression .
Its despair talking.
Woe is us if this is the best we have. 

[shorelinemc]

I've been reading a few of the comments at various news sites regarding the Greens taking the balance of power and also the matter of the carbon tax. The overwhelming majority of commenters are against the carbon tax. Julie Gillard appears to have a very low rating in all the current polls. And yet anti-carbon tax rallies are poorly supported. I can only conclude that in fact most people are pro-carbon tax, but they are just unhappy with the way that Gillard's government is managing the matter.

Personally, I have no idea about the carbon tax - I don't really understand it in detail nor do I have a good sense of its likely impact. But as someone who's hobby/passion is pretty carbon intensive, I probably should have a view. My gut feel is that Australia is wrong to move early, given that the rest of the world seems not to be as adventurous, other than the UK. Given that Australia's contribution to reducing CO2 will have no effect on climate change, it would seem more prudent to me to actively promote appropriate strategies on the world stage whilst adopting the position that Australia will not move until the big players have moved.

What's everyone else think? Are you concerned? Are you passionately on-side with the governmment? Or is it just not that big a deal to you? Or should I just go spend more time polishing my NOS RM125 footpegs?
cause we dont protest as we are at work and the greenies appear to not work

[Slakewell]

I live in stand alone Solar house so the power bill wont hurt me.
IMO the carbon Tax is just wholly and solely to keep the Beaucats in jobs and the trough deep 

[Rossvickicampbell]

Slakewell - only if you dont live in Qld it appears - a minimum power bill regardless of usage - bit ordinary!!!  Bit like in WA where excessive water usage houses will get hit with a penalty - hang on shouldn't you also look at the number of people in a house as well and then compare usage per head???

[crash n bern]

We need better ideas.  Election time, how many millions are spent on propaganda campaigns to win votes?  Just to end up with incompetent politicians.

What I would like to see is a survivor type election campaign.  Take all the politicians and put them on an island.  All the incompetent ones get voted off.  The winner is the most hands on practical one.  The show broadcasts nationally on SBS, advertising and sponsorship is sold.

So we then end up with a reasonably capable Prime minister and a profit margin at the same time.  Win, win.

We also need to implement a fine system for politicians, screw up and it will cost you.

Any stupid things that a politician wastes tax payers money on that doesn't work.  They have to buy.