usa has announced bin ladin is dead

[Marc.com]

Just because Bin Liner was unarmed at the precise moment he was shot does not mean he was murdered.  The reports clearly state that there WERE AK47s in his bedroom and that he had given no indication that he was surrendering... 

And with regard to the whole notion of "murdering" an "innocent" man, tell that to the thousands of innocent people who have been murdered without warning as a result of the actions and directions of that man. 

Sure the bedroom was littered with AK47s ... like Saddam had weapons of mass destruction ... how much of the US account are you willing to believe. My point is that you are getting a one sided version of events with a very convenient disposal of the evidence at the end.

As for murdering of the innocents, if you take JUST the civilian fatalities in Iraq alone on the pretext of WMD, Saddam looks like a novice. Again point is you have US troops arriving in a 3rd country and killing without a trial, I assume non state sanctioned killing is illegal in Pakistan ... so for whatever reason it was pre planned and is murder.

[Marc.com]

As for murdering of the innocents, if you take JUST the civilian fatalities in Iraq alone on the pretext of WMD, Saddam looks like a novice.

Sorry correction Osama looks like a novice.

[AjayVMX]

Well, of course some people aren't prepared to believe that the USA would take all those risks to go there and lose one of their shiny new stealth helicopters and then fake OBL's execution...    

Why not take a more refreshing view and accept that the fact they admitted that he was unarmed was disarmingly honest and open?  

Truth is sometime hard to believe I guess.  

[Marc.com]

Why not take a more refreshing view and accept that the fact they admitted that he was unarmed was disarmingly honest and open?  

Don't get wrong Ajay I am not lamenting bin Laden's demise, actually for a change I think the US are probably telling the truth, but I think their cause would have benefited from arrest and trial. Now he will always be the bogey man, the harsh light of a criminal trial would have shown that Osama was not so special and scarcely the inspiration he is now likely to become to religious extremists.

Of course the inner cynic in me wants to believe this is a sop to the far right in the build up to the US election.

[Nathan S]

What Marc just said.
I guess we all get very jaded by the obvious spin that the US Govt puts on everything. If we weren't aligned with them and they weren't doing stuff that we fundamentally agree with, it would be very easy to completely distrust them.

[AjayVMX]

There's no doubt that there's a political aspect to this... and Obama has clearly benefitted from this.

But having said that, putting OBL on trial would always have drawn out and messy, whilst also providing him an opportunity to do more harm by just being around.

We will never know if he would have been captured if he merely surrendered meekly (and I do presume that he was probably resisting in some form when shot).

I still think that the final irony is that the champion of the downtrodden Muslim jihardists was found comfortably in bed in a mansion in a leafy, well to do neighbourhood is fabulous. 

The extent that he went to to protect his own life while sending countless mindless believers out to kill themselves in his name is truly astounding.

[VMX247]

putting OBL on trial would always have drawn out and messy,

And a large cost to the American's.
 
Cant get my thinking around why he'd have all this Al Qaeda info with him.. stuffed if I would..then again some people hoard vmx bikes
quote:Intelligence seized from Osama bin Laden's compound in Pakistan showed his Al Qaeda network pondered strikes on US trains on the 10th anniversary of the September 11 attacks, US officials said.

"We have no information of any imminent terrorist threat to the US rail sector but wanted to make our partners aware of the alleged plotting," spokesman Matthew Chandler said of an intelligence message issued by the department of homeland security.

The department and other US agencies have been reviewing the treasure trove of information from bin Laden's compound in Pakistan seized during the raid this week that killed the Al Qaeda leader.

[Marc.com]

quote:Intelligence seized from Osama bin Laden's compound in Pakistan showed his Al Qaeda network pondered strikes on US trains on the 10th anniversary of the September 11 attacks,

Given Amtraks safety record I think derailing trains in the US would not be particularly shocking. Yesss it does seem strange that this 'intelligence' was just lying about, it was probably accidently left under the AK47s.

[dirtrumpy]

Breaking News

Since eliminating Bin Laden, Feds in Alice Springs have arrested 4 aboriginal terrorist suspects, Bin Bludgin, Bin Thieving, Bin Boozing and Bin Dealin, there appers to be no sign of Bin Workin. These leads were aided by cousin Bin Lagin!!

[Tex]

For the life of me (no pun intended), I cannot understand the hand-wringing over the fact BL was killed. This was a military operation, he was the enemy (not a head of state), the US soldiers killed the enemy. Simple.

When coalition forces attack insurgents, they don't send a text message advising that "we're on our way, c u at 4.30, have your weapons ready"

The enemy was caught by surprise. I'm no expert, but in war isn't that a good thing?!

If BL had walked into a US consulate to surrender, and been shot dead in the foyer I could understand the consternation. To my knowledge there's no suggestion that he was planning to hand himself in any time soon!

And what of a trial? People like to imagine a shamed BL in the dock, and the whole extremist movement being subdued. Here's a different scenario: an unrepentant BL crowing from the stand, AQ's massive financial resources enable his defence to draw the trial out for a decade, kidnappings and other atrocities demanding his release, and finally a guilty verdict that conspiracy theorists and extremists alike debunk as unfair or rigged. And what then? Death penalty or imprisonment? Each presents its own problems...

I'm often a critic of US politics & military strategy, but to my mind they got it 100% right this time.

Tex

[Mike52]

What bothers me is the subtly of the whole deal.
I would have taken him alive , cleaned up leaving no trace that I,d been there and left em guessing.
Never to say a word.
That,s TERROR.

[mx250]

What bothers me is the subtly of the whole deal.

A 'double tap' to the forehead ain't subtle .

[mx250]

For the life of me (no pun intended), I cannot understand the hand-wringing over the fact BL was killed. This was a military operation, he was the enemy (not a head of state), the US soldiers killed the enemy. Simple.

When coalition forces attack insurgents, they don't send a text message advising that "we're on our way, c u at 4.30, have your weapons ready"

The enemy was caught by surprise. I'm no expert, but in war isn't that a good thing?!

If BL had walked into a US consulate to surrender, and been shot dead in the foyer I could understand the consternation. To my knowledge there's no suggestion that he was planning to hand himself in any time soon!

And what of a trial? People like to imagine a shamed BL in the dock, and the whole extremist movement being subdued. Here's a different scenario: an unrepentant BL crowing from the stand, AQ's massive financial resources enable his defence to draw the trial out for a decade, kidnappings and other atrocities demanding his release, and finally a guilty verdict that conspiracy theorists and extremists alike debunk as unfair or rigged. And what then? Death penalty or imprisonment? Each presents its own problems...

I'm often a critic of US politics & military strategy, but to my mind they got it 100% right this time.

Tex

+1, me, .

[AjayVMX]

For the life of me (no pun intended), I cannot understand the hand-wringing over the fact BL was killed. This was a military operation, he was the enemy (not a head of state), the US soldiers killed the enemy. Simple.

When coalition forces attack insurgents, they don't send a text message advising that "we're on our way, c u at 4.30, have your weapons ready"

The enemy was caught by surprise. I'm no expert, but in war isn't that a good thing?!

If BL had walked into a US consulate to surrender, and been shot dead in the foyer I could understand the consternation. To my knowledge there's no suggestion that he was planning to hand himself in any time soon!

And what of a trial? People like to imagine a shamed BL in the dock, and the whole extremist movement being subdued. Here's a different scenario: an unrepentant BL crowing from the stand, AQ's massive financial resources enable his defence to draw the trial out for a decade, kidnappings and other atrocities demanding his release, and finally a guilty verdict that conspiracy theorists and extremists alike debunk as unfair or rigged. And what then? Death penalty or imprisonment? Each presents its own problems...

I'm often a critic of US politics & military strategy, but to my mind they got it 100% right this time.

Tex

Spot on, Tex.

[Nathan S]

Even in war, there's a difference between shooting someone who is threatening you, and someone who isn't. There's also the issue of the fact that Pakistan isn't in the war zone.
Don’t get me wrong, I'm not saying that the yanks did the wrong thing, but the hand wringing isn't without basis.
We don’t know what binLaden was up to in the seconds before his death, and I think its fair to assume he wasn't offering cups of warm cocoa...  But at the same time, the image of an elderly man in his jim-jams cowering under a dirty bed sheet, until he's mowed down by a heavily armed soldier isn't a good look (if it has any truth).