Author Topic: usa has announced bin ladin is dead  (Read 19587 times)

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Curly3

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Re: usa has announced bin ladin is dead
« Reply #75 on: May 06, 2011, 06:10:58 pm »
I'm glad the areshole is no longer breathing but we shouldn't be crowing about it, even if they would and they'd have the video out there for all to see.

Offline vmx42

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Re: usa has announced bin ladin is dead
« Reply #76 on: May 06, 2011, 06:11:42 pm »
Moving on from Bin Ladens demise [justifiable or otherwise].

Can anybody tell me where 'the line' is to be drawn in the future?

The current situation seems to indicate that the ends justify the means. Currently torture is OK, kidnapping is OK, imprisonment for years without trial or proper legal representation is no problem, invasion of sovereign nations on trumped up intelligence is justifiable. Just call them 'renditions', 'collateral damage' or some other politically correct mumbo jumbo and all is good.

Governments seem free to operate in direct contravention of High Court decisions in ways that go against their constitutions and legal constraints without fear of reprisal or prosecution.

'They' tell us that it is for our own good. But who the hell are 'They' and how are 'They' to be held accountable when they over step the line? Should we hold them to account? Or should we believe what we are told, that it is all for our own good?

Personally I think they have stepped way over the line, and their moral compasses are so far up their collective arses that it is impossible for them to tell wrong from right. How long until the 'Good Guys' are no different from the 'Bad Guys'. At least in the old Westerns you could tell by the colour of their hats…

Then again I could just be paranoid?
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Offline Iain Cameron

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Re: usa has announced bin ladin is dead
« Reply #77 on: May 07, 2011, 10:34:45 am »
Tex I agree with you 100% , we are now in a war unlike our fathers and grandfathers had to fight . there is no enemy in uniform , no ranks of troops , no bases to attack . We have to fight like them or we will be beaten , Use terror back on them . I see nothing wrong with topping any terrorist that sticks up his or her head . if we pussy foot around with legalities we will lose . Terrorists do not abide by any legal system so why should they have the protection of our system . Iain Cameron  ex Aussie and British armed forces member.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2011, 10:40:03 am by iainyz »
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Offline lyle2212

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Re: usa has announced bin ladin is dead
« Reply #78 on: May 07, 2011, 11:19:40 am »
If we take a look at the big picture of all these despots that the USA has "offed" over the years,or tried to, then we will find that they were ALL aided and abetted by the good ol CIA, funny that. Lets start with Ho chi Min who helped find and lead downed American pilots in China during WW2 back to the coast, a distance covered on foot of up to 300 miles, he was rewarded with small arms and supplies and a letter of gratitude by the USA. Next we have the Shah of Iran ,who was helped into power by them and did nothing to help the people ,only sell oil to the USA, he fled the country one step ahead of the "cavalry"  Then good ol Sadam Hussen  was next,placed into power by the CIA, but then he became an out of control bad boy and was officially charged and executed with the murder of 60 kurds by gassing. In the mean time the death toll in Iraq "since the USA invaded" is up around the 1 million mark and rising. Not to forget Bin Laden ,trained and supplied Arms by the CIA during the Afghan -Russian war......and thats only a few well known ones. Take a good look at what is going on with all the Arab countries uprisings, and who is behind the financial backings of their leaders when they came into power.......

Offline Mike52

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Re: usa has announced bin ladin is dead
« Reply #79 on: May 07, 2011, 12:49:39 pm »
Lyle.
When the yanks went into Iraq the second time they went thru Saudi.
They passed the house where EDI AMIN was living in exile.
I was a bit upset that they didn,t drop in on him.
He died a bit later anyway, so nothing lost I suppose.
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monaro308

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Re: usa has announced bin ladin is dead
« Reply #80 on: May 07, 2011, 01:47:00 pm »
Bin Ladens last message on facebook  ;D

a

mx250

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Re: usa has announced bin ladin is dead
« Reply #81 on: May 07, 2011, 05:59:05 pm »
If we take a look at the big picture of all these despots that the USA has "offed" over the years,or tried to, then we will find that they were ALL aided and abetted by the good ol CIA, funny that. Lets start with Ho chi Min who helped find and lead downed American pilots in China during WW2 back to the coast, a distance covered on foot of up to 300 miles, he was rewarded with small arms and supplies and a letter of gratitude by the USA. Next we have the Shah of Iran ,who was helped into power by them and did nothing to help the people ,only sell oil to the USA, he fled the country one step ahead of the "cavalry"  Then good ol Sadam Hussen  was next,placed into power by the CIA, but then he became an out of control bad boy and was officially charged and executed with the murder of 60 kurds by gassing. In the mean time the death toll in Iraq "since the USA invaded" is up around the 1 million mark and rising. Not to forget Bin Laden ,trained and supplied Arms by the CIA during the Afghan -Russian war......and thats only a few well known ones. Take a good look at what is going on with all the Arab countries uprisings, and who is behind the financial backings of their leaders when they came into power.......
Let's take a 60 year history and take a few 'selected' facts and come to a 'factual truth' conclusion.  ::)  :-[.

Offline Iain Cameron

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Re: usa has announced bin ladin is dead
« Reply #82 on: May 07, 2011, 08:32:54 pm »
too much talking to quote some friends from the SBS " Kill them all and let God sort them out " . ;D
Yamaha tragic ; dt1, rt1, dt2, rt2, dt2mx , rt2mx , mx250, mx360,sc500, 74dt125, yzx125, yzc250, yzc400, yzd250, yzd400, yzh250, yzh80 , dt100 , xr75 ko xr80 03 , it175 82 . Not a member of any club

Offline VMX247

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Re: usa has announced bin ladin is dead
« Reply #83 on: May 07, 2011, 09:22:25 pm »
Elton Johns doing the songs for the funeral the first being Sandles in the Bin   ;D
Best is in the West !!

mx250

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Re: usa has announced bin ladin is dead
« Reply #84 on: May 07, 2011, 09:47:31 pm »
too much talking to quote some friends from the SBS " Kill them all and let God sort them out " . ;D
I don't think that would be the Special Broadcast Service :o ::) ;D.

Offline Iain Cameron

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Re: usa has announced bin ladin is dead
« Reply #85 on: May 07, 2011, 10:05:23 pm »
Special Boat Service  British Royal Marines
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Offline Lozza

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Re: usa has announced bin ladin is dead
« Reply #86 on: May 07, 2011, 10:08:46 pm »
Tex I agree with you 100% , we are now in a war unlike our fathers and grandfathers had to fight . there is no enemy in uniform , no ranks of troops , no bases to attack . We have to fight like them or we will be beaten , Use terror back on them . I see nothing wrong with topping any terrorist that sticks up his or her head . if we pussy foot around with legalities we will lose . Terrorists do not abide by any legal system so why should they have the protection of our system . Iain Cameron  ex Aussie and British armed forces member.

None of that worked very well in Northern Ireland, and what did actualy stop 'The Troubles' ?


How many CIA plots were devised to assasinate Fidel Castro? There was a CIA financed a failed coup attempt. How could we forget Manuel Noriega and his close ties with former head of the CIA George Bush,  then we move on to Pinochet in Chile, 1954 Guatemala.....................an impressive list of fails/success depending on which side of the fence you sit.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_regime_change_actions

A interesting note that Hugo Chavez was being positioned as enemy No1 in early 2001
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mx250

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Re: usa has announced bin ladin is dead
« Reply #87 on: May 08, 2011, 07:02:33 am »
Tex I agree with you 100% , we are now in a war unlike our fathers and grandfathers had to fight . there is no enemy in uniform , no ranks of troops , no bases to attack . We have to fight like them or we will be beaten , Use terror back on them . I see nothing wrong with topping any terrorist that sticks up his or her head . if we pussy foot around with legalities we will lose . Terrorists do not abide by any legal system so why should they have the protection of our system . Iain Cameron  ex Aussie and British armed forces member.

None of that worked very well in Northern Ireland, and what did actualy stop 'The Troubles' ?


How many CIA plots were devised to assasinate Fidel Castro? There was a CIA financed a failed coup attempt. How could we forget Manuel Noriega and his close ties with former head of the CIA George Bush,  then we move on to Pinochet in Chile, 1954 Guatemala.....................an impressive list of fails/success depending on which side of the fence you sit.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_regime_change_actions

A interesting note that Hugo Chavez was being positioned as enemy No1 in early 2001
I love these potted histories of selected facts making a litany of wrongs. Without even going into the rights and wrongs of these particular cases how about a litany of 'rights' that America did in the same period to have a balanced view.

And of course I would love to hear the alternative of 'what they should have done'.  :P

Offline AjayVMX

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Re: usa has announced bin ladin is dead
« Reply #88 on: May 08, 2011, 12:10:37 pm »
I saw a very interesting and detailed documentary (it went for 2 hours) last night on NatGeo which detailed the troubles in Afganistan from the Russion invasion period through to about 5 years ago - documenting the creation of the Taliban, the actions of OBL, their interaction and also the CIA/Saudi/Pakstani funding during that period.

The first misconception that this documentary reveals is that the CIA only provided funding, indirectly through Paksitan, to help the Afganis fight the Russians.  By doing so, they helped Afganistan defeat the Russians.  After the Russians had gone, the funding ceased.  So there's no contradiction there - all they were doing was essentially payback for Vietnam where Russia funded the VC and ultimately their funding in Afganistan led to the liberation of millions when the Cold War ended.  Not a bad investment really.

The second misconception is that Osama Bin Liner was funded as part of the CIA/Pakistani funding.  Not true either.  His funding came from the Saudis during the Russion invasion period.  He subsequently left Afganistan when the Russions were defeated and did not return until the Taliban were formed and in power in the late 90s.  During this whole period, the Taliban continued to be supported and funded by Pakistan...

When OBL returned to Afganistan at the invitation of the Taliban, he then made Al Qaeda stronger at his own expense and used his terrorist training camps to also train Taliban.  The reality of the situation was that the Taliban provided OBL with "protection" and that the leader of the Taliban and OBL were friends, but not directly linked.  Indeed it appears that the Taliban leadership underestimated or misunderstood what OBL was up to and when the leader of the anti-Taliban Northern Alliance was assassinated by an Al Qaeda operative only two days before 9/11, presumably to destabilise the main opposition to the Taliban in Afganistan and hence remove a possible strong ally for the USA, no-one put 2 and 2 together and worked out what OBL was up to.

Once 9/11 had happened, the Taliban (like the USA) apparently got the shock of their lives when the USA focussed on them as the "protectors" of OBL.  Crutially, when George W asked the Taliban to give up OBL "or else".  At this point, OBL is reported to have lied to the Taliban leader, denying Al Qaeda's involvement with 9/11 (which of course they subsequently admitted) and the Taliban leader took OBL at his word and did not give him to the USA.  As a result, the USA went to war with the Taliban and within a year or so, the Taliban was out of power in Afganistan, having decided to "blend into the population" under the extreme force of the USA forces.

Of course, at this stage the new democratic government was installed in Afganistan but they, as had been the practice post Russian invasion, reutrned to corruption and the evolution of local drug warlords.  Certainly, the USA was stupid in allowing this government to behave the way it did and they also had a big awakening.  So by 2005 the Taliban were once again seen as the good guys by ordinary Afganis, having forgotten the human rights abuses that the Taliban had been famous for in their previous time in power.  So the Taliban reemerged as a fighting force, and since then have been trying to regain power ever since.

The most important point about this whole deal is that the Taliban are fighting for a medieval form of Islamic law, which most modern followers of Islam reject.  The worst aspect of the extreme form of Shairia law is that Women are forbidden from being educated or having any personal freedom.  This is why the Taliban attack teachers and destroy schools which attempt to teach girls.

The question still remains whether Pakistan is still supporting the Taliban or not...  but the recent fact that OBL was apparently in a "protected" locaton in Pakistan is a stong indicator that some continued support is possible.

And THAT is really scary.

maxvmx

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Re: usa has announced bin ladin is dead
« Reply #89 on: May 08, 2011, 06:35:43 pm »
Ever since hearing that OBL was buried at sea and knowing what symbolically driven people Americans are – one can’t help but wonder what they weighted his body down with? I dare say all sorts of things will fill that gap in coming months from a piece of the north tower structure to maybe even an old PE Suzuki!