POMEROYS RACE WINNING BULTACO

[huskibul]

   Copy's a bit how you goin' but you can still see the swoop in loop behind shock mount (it's more a raised shockmount compared to cms)  phot plicken's    ps great shot bear!

[jerry]

Great shot Huski. Confirms seat, guards,rear hub, rims, "Champion" sticker placement, seat height and expansion chamber. Thanks mate Jerry

[GMC]

I reckon it’s an each way bet.
Interestingly there are some claims that Jim used an American built Cro-Mo frame so it would make sense that it was a CMS as the add claimed, however I find it odd that they would have shipped a frame to Spain for a testing session with Bultaco.

I heard from a guy many years back that worked around the corner from CMS, he reckons they were building frames in 72.
He also told me that CMS was derived from Charley Cole, his wife was Mary, and the helper Shosgoffenhouser

A new source that worked at CMS now says it was California Motocross Specialties.
This guy also says…
Bultaco probably  less than 100 frames produced.
CZ maybe 200.
I was sales rep for them in 73-74. Mostly sold frame and swingarm for CZ.
Ultra high quality stuff. Beautiful. As good as anything made today. Very light. Perfect welding.
Would be extremely expensive to duplicate today.  Haven't heard anything about them for decades.

I would agree on the well made comments after looking hard at Drakies frame



Did Bultaco always have snail cam adjusters on their swingarms?

[cappra]

Always Have A Great Time,
Always Ride Hard & Race To Win,
Always Get Together With Friends,
And Always Get Ready For The Next Race..
                                                            JP.
                                                     
         

[jerry]

Certainly had the snail cams back to MK2 Pursang. There are however at least 2 variations. Back to work now Geoff!!!! Cheers Jerry

[JC]

Love that shot Huskibul. I've only ever seen a very small version of it.

Yes, Geoff, snail cams on my 71 Sherpa S & on Sammy's 64 SherpaT

Went thro all my La Voz de SMOG (spanish m'cycle owners group) back issues & in 50 issues could only find 2 very small shots of JP's bikes, one of which is that one Huskibul posted.

[firko]

Geoff....do you have a front view of the CMS frame? I'm interested to see how much the front downtube goes past the point where the bottom cradle tubes are joined. I reckon that might be different on the CMS compared to the stocker, settling this for good.

[GMC]

It was a comment in an add from Dirt Rider ( I think 74?)
It seemed like news to them at the time.

Pomeroy used a stock Pursang with his rear shocks, that CMS ad is bullshit.

The ad says he used A CMS frame, not the one pictured.

[GMC]

Yep that's him. He runs around the country hauling a 2 stroke powered Margarita machine with some guy called Diamond Don. 

Sounds like Husky Pete and the boys will be right at home over there.

Certainly had the snail cams back to MK2 Pursang. There are however at least 2 variations. Back to work now Geoff!!!! Cheers Jerry

What are the 2 variations?  The pictured Bulty has holes on the snail cams, the CMS snail cams were solid alloy.

[GMC]

Geoff....do you have a front view of the CMS frame? I'm interested to see how much the front downtube goes past the point where the bottom cradle tubes are joined. I reckon that might be different on the CMS compared to the stocker, settling this for good.

This is about the best I can do from the ad.
It appears the lower engine mount brackets are mounted onto the main down tube undernearth where the side cradle tubes join.
I'm not familiar how the Bultaco frames look

[JC]

Thats pretty much how std pursang frames are.


Jerry, you really set me on a mission. I've found a whole lot more info, which I'll try to present in chronological order. Bear w me, this could take a while w numerous posts, if I can post the pics up. (Edit: I can't seem to show the pics here so I'll have to use hyperlink)

Its not "the devil is in the detail", its the clues:


Schwerma Bandito frame below, circa71. Click on the links for larger pics
You'd be hard pressed to pick that from a std Bul frame, tho there is a diff mount for the sidecover




Schwerma M48/68 Pursang frame c71 (it says Bandito but its clearly the single downtube pursang frame) visually similar to pursang frame of the era.  But Bul tragics will note the diff engine cradle, shorter front down tube, diff bottom front engine mounts (which Bul themselves used on later Astros), & diff where the cradle attaches to the downtube (ie lower than on a std pursang frame). A careful look will note the seat mounts are diff to the std pursang mounts which I'll pick up on again later




Schwerma claimed to have invlovement w the Bul riders in previous years TransAMA. Tom Rapp was one such rider, who was said to have used a custom cro-mo frame on his M68 pursang. Here is Tom Rapp.  Note the diff engine cradle to std pursang, shorter downtube, diff attachment point of cradle to downtube, & on the original you can just make out diff sidecover to M68 w diff attachment point to frame -all consistent w the Schwerma frames. That is a Schwerma frame. (It is of course clearer in the original)




There is also an indisputable connection between Schwerma to Bul via Jim Odom's short track bike in 71 (which I can post a pic of later too)

[JC]

Some pics of JP in 73

In practice for Spanish GP


In the race



And later in 73 GP season at Finland. Note, 3rd-last GP of the season & he's still using short travel rear suspension!

[JC]

Can someone tell me if those hperlinks are working - ie that you can click on the link & see the pic.
They don't seem to be on my computer, tho they were.
And I've got quite a lot more to post

[sudman]

Yep working fine

[JC]

Thanks sudman


Here's "a genuine factory racing frame used by Bultaco sponsored riders while racing in US"

It is typical pursang except for the boxed in pivot area, & as you'll see in the following pic, has a diff shaped rear loop - more squared & longer






Note the frame # stamped on it. That is a Bul/factory serial #  - ie B100248
Caption reads: "All "factory racing" serial numbers on frames & engines usually started w 100"

And further: "Theres a bit of mystery with some of these factory racing frames as to their manufacture. Some might be custom fabrications in cro-mo, made somewhere in California during the 70s. (Bultaco sponsored pro-rider Tom Rapp had a custom cro-mo frame made in Ca for his Mod 68)"

Note also the seat mounts. They are a distinctive fabrication - classic made-in-the-factory-in-Spain workmanship. The sort of distinctive workmanship typical of a builder/fabricator that Geoff mentions above (post #82  "fabricators tend to have individual styles") is aparrent & you'll see it on just about every prod'n pursang of the era. They are decidedly diff to the ones on the CMS & Schwerma frames earlier in the thread if you check it out.

OK, so the boxed in pivot area is common to the CMS frame on bike #42U above, but which came 1st? Who copied who?  CMS followed CZ practice in double plating the pivot area on the CZ frames so we have a precedent of them following the factory.

But is there any evidence this frame (B100248) appeared before the CMS pursang frames advertised in late 74? Yes. All JP's longtravel bikes I've seen had the top shock mount moved forward, so its likely to be from the 73 GP season. By the TransAMA of late 73 everybody had LTR susp'n.

Furthermore, the 400 prototype that J Mingels rode in 73 500GP season is stamped 100260 & a similar engine at Hughs Bultaco (for which there's evidence it was probably one used by Pomeroy) is 100262. That would seem to indicate this frame (100248) was used early in the 73 GP season, long before CMS used the boxed-in-pivot area on their late 74 frames.