Author Topic: A dork and his money.....  (Read 8395 times)

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Offline Hoony

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Re: A dork and his money.....
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2008, 02:46:23 pm »
Nup, the Classy Indians are the go.

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Long time Honda Fan, but all bike nut in general, Big Bore 2 stroke fan.    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJoKP6MawYI
1985 Honda CR500RF "Big Red"
1986 Honda CR250RG
2005 KTM 300EXC "The GruntMeister" ( I love that engine)

Offline Hoony

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Re: A dork and his money.....
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2008, 02:47:08 pm »
love those old board track racers, 4 valve heads in early 1900's (around 1908- 1920) 100MPH rockets.

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« Last Edit: January 31, 2008, 02:49:50 pm by Hoony »
Long time Honda Fan, but all bike nut in general, Big Bore 2 stroke fan.    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJoKP6MawYI
1985 Honda CR500RF "Big Red"
1986 Honda CR250RG
2005 KTM 300EXC "The GruntMeister" ( I love that engine)

Offline Hoony

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Re: A dork and his money.....
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2008, 02:51:13 pm »
Indians are classy machines

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Long time Honda Fan, but all bike nut in general, Big Bore 2 stroke fan.    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJoKP6MawYI
1985 Honda CR500RF "Big Red"
1986 Honda CR250RG
2005 KTM 300EXC "The GruntMeister" ( I love that engine)

Offline Nathan S

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Re: A dork and his money.....
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2008, 10:07:26 pm »
While HD deserves credit for recognising trends and capitalising on them, it all just seems a bit too... I dunno ... contrived to me.

That bike is like a PT Cruiser or a new Beetle, to my mind. I mean, of all the things that make real hots rods or old dak-daks cool*, the outside appearance is low on the list: But they're designed to appeal to the unwashed public who doesn't know or care: Style over substance (even if they're clearly better than the original); "experience lite", etc.

Truly iconic stuff like the original Beetle, the DT1, the FJ, the Austin 7, the original Mini, etc got that way because they were exceptionally good at doing their unpretentious job.
If half the effort was put into developing a vehicle that did something particularly well at a low cost, that's been put into dragging the last shred of value (and consequently, soul) from the past, then we'd all be driving $12k hybrid or hydrogen cars by now, rather than ostentatious abominations like the Chrysler 300C...

[/rant]

*I have no love for old Dak-daks.
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Offline Maicojames

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Re: A dork and his money.....
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2008, 01:49:10 am »
Hey, Firko no knock against all Harleys at all. Hell, I would love any KR or XR 750, XR 1000, or 78 MX250 to name a few. As for the style and all, yes it is bought and sold.
Nathan, well said ! Do Auto designers and the like just realize the 1960s was the pinnacle of design? Well, it was and the most beautiful cars for the most parts come from 55-75 or so. Enough of the retro, gimme something that will run on piss, and get great economy. My 2003 v-8 powered Ford F-150 pickup gets far better economy than my 92 v-6 powered Nissan Pathfinder-the technology is here.
Life is suddenly very Monaro

Offline paul

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Re: A dork and his money.....
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2008, 07:09:57 am »
iv had half dozen harleys over the years the first one i got was in 1974  just got my learners permit in vic toria i was just on 18 and i bought a new new 74 sporter  it was the first bike i had on the road in those day there was no limit on capacity  for learners   it was good times  .i dont think my parents or the neibours apprresiated  the drag pipes though  at 4am had numerous harley since then /but since ive had kids i decided that there are tooooo   many fork wits on the roads and im not putting my life at risk modern drivers dont give a flying fork  about bike riders  just yesterday  a old guy got flatened on the free way buy a tipper with a dog trailer   what a way to go   some forkhead  in a hurry to make 20 bucks a hour no thanks

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Re: A dork and his money.....
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2008, 08:29:39 am »
While I agree with Nathan that Harley has taken the retro thing way past the point of it being interesting any more, why should they change when the bikes are selling like half price schooners because they are not like the cookie cutter Japanese products. I guess it's valid to compare Harleys to PT Cruisers, VW Beetles and Mini Coopers (you missed that one Nathan) but why shouldn't folks be allowed to access "experience lite"? Anybody who's ever driven a real Hot Rod or a classic VW will quickly realise their deficiencies. What these cars (and bikes, let's not forget the retro Triumphs here) do is to offer a cool alternative to the Camry blandness of many of today's vehicles.

It would be nice to see $12k Hydrogen powered people movers that get 100mpg but that won't come while the oil companies and US industry rule our little planet. Get used to progress in this field coming in dribs and drabs. Like in James' situation, my 4.7l V8 Jeep Cherokee gets much better economy than Jonseys 5 year old Holden Rodeo 3 litre V6 work ute.
The "ostentatious abomination" Chrysler 300c is a good example of that technology with its ability to be cut back to 4 cylinders on the highway to reduce petrol consuption and emission. The 300C is a beautiful car with many advanced features that should be picked up by other manufacturers. Would you be as contemptuous of the 300C Nathan if it had Volvo badges on it and had been developed in Europe? Methinks you're showing a little taste bias but isn't that where we came in?


 
« Last Edit: February 01, 2008, 08:35:20 am by firko »

Offline Nathan S

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Re: A dork and his money.....
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2008, 09:39:56 am »
While I agree with Nathan that Harley has taken the retro thing way past the point of it being interesting any more, why should they change when the bikes are selling like half price schooners because they are not like the cookie cutter Japanese products. I guess it's valid to compare Harleys to PT Cruisers, VW Beetles and Mini Coopers (you missed that one Nathan) but why shouldn't folks be allowed to access "experience lite"? Anybody who's ever driven a real Hot Rod or a classic VW will quickly realise their deficiencies. What these cars (and bikes, let's not forget the retro Triumphs here) do is to offer a cool alternative to the Camry blandness of many of today's vehicles.

Of course they're allowed to access 'experience lite', and manufacturers would be mad to ignore the market... But both the consumers and the manufacturers also need to be aware that they're selling the real image down the river.
So I argue whether the 'coolness' of the retro specials really exists, beyond the initial flash of emotion in the showroom: The early Beetle sold up a storm for a multitude of reasons, of which its shape was very low down the list. The new Beetle was a flop, because it mirrored only the least of the oriinal's acheivements.

At the other end of the retro spectrum, stuff like the Triumph Scrambler and Ducati 900 don't offend me because (broadly speaking) they have the same strong and weak points as the originals, and are more than mere styling exercises.

(What did I miss WRT the original Mini!? Even without the Cooper version, the original Mini is an iconic car).

The "ostentatious abomination" Chrysler 300c is a good example of that technology with its ability to be cut back to 4 cylinders on the highway to reduce petrol consuption and emission. The 300C is a beautiful car with many advanced features that should be picked up by other manufacturers. Would you be as contemptuous of the 300C Nathan if it had Volvo badges on it and had been developed in Europe? Methinks you're showing a little taste bias but isn't that where we came in?

I think you mis-understand my biases (they're there alright, but they're not where you seem to think they lie).
Don't get me started on Volvo either... Where's the 2008 version of the old Volvo formula: simple, safe, unpretentious, and sporty? OK, with modern safety and emissions requirements, simple will probably never be seen again, but why is nobody even trying to develop cheap cars that are anything other than cookie-cutter specials?
Original Beetles, Minis, etc, were not churned out from the generic mold.

Why is the world so obsessed with re-capturing the not entirely realisitc good points of the 60s and 70s through style alone?
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firko

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Re: A dork and his money.....
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2008, 10:58:49 am »
I think that the whole retro movement is a reflection of society as a whole. Design, music, fashion, you name it keeps repeating itself to new generations of consumers. The person who buys a Harley or a PT Cruiser today gives little thought to those vehicles 1930s inspirations. They've bought the vehicle because they like it, simple as that. It's the same with music (which you and I have debated before Nathan ;D). Wolfmother=Black Sabbath, John Butler Trio= Paul Butterfield Blues Band and so on, you get my drift.

Todays kids think it's new and interesting and that's fine because they didn't experience the music or the vehicle the first time around. My 19 year old god daughter never drove a WW2 Willys Jeep but she loves her 2004 Jeep Wrangler. I had to show her photos of Jeeps in action on old reruns of MASH for her to realise the styling heritage of her car.

I guess the point I'm making is that many people who buy retro vehicles aren't trying to replicate another era. If they were, you'd see more baby boomers driving BMW Minis and VWs or driving PT Cruisers than the Gen Xers who have been the main buyers.






Offline Freakshow

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Re: A dork and his money.....
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2008, 12:57:27 pm »
Sorry big K but its fugly, and its a press foto, so its fair to say he is made to look happy, however on seeing the photo he'd be spewing.



The only good harley are customs in my opinion.  id love a big raked out chopper.  I got a 1100Yamah harely ATm with the pipes and the "chips lights' AKA fat boy style, but if i had the coin id flick it for a custom.

A lot of smart people have been able to take a boring old peice of 1960's tech and make it into something special. 

You ever seen the bikes with no hubs ? freekin insane, some of these custom guys spend years just thinking about the technical challenge of makin the bike more minimal.  My hat goes off to these fellas.  Check out the rimless one here, build by overcoming some very obvious challenges.   

http://www.howardshubless.com/

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« Last Edit: February 01, 2008, 01:09:34 pm by Freakshow »
74 Yamaha YZ's - 75 Yamaha YZ's
74 Yamaha  flattracker's
70  Jawa 2 valve speedway's

For sale -  PRE 75 Yamaha MX stuff, frame, motors and parts also some YAM DT1,2,A and Suzi TS bikes and stuff

211kawasaki

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Re: A dork and his money.....
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2008, 03:40:55 pm »
If you read Sonny Bargars* (spelling - sorry Sonny!) book which is a fantastic read on the history of the Hell Angles, even he says that the only reason why they rode Harleys in the 50's was that they were cheap. That they customized them is the thing that made Harley as I doubt they would have survived if they hadn't. (Harley picked up on the style and did some great marketing.) The really interesting thing is that he says that if they were not so cheap they would be riding Hondas!

For me - my opinion only, the guy on the bike is grinning just the same as the rest of us on a ride; that he happens to ride a 2 wheeled compressor makes no difference 'cos thats his thing same as others look at us on our old shitters and have a laugh at our expense - no difference!

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Offline Freakshow

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Re: A dork and his money.....
« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2008, 05:03:35 pm »
NAh that one is still so wrong in so many ways.

still looks like an excercise bike.

the sales numbers, will show how popular it becomes.

### on another note  i under stand and can see the how the brakes work but what holds the wheel on the hubless one . got me bloody confused  :-\

" It relies on friction drive technology.  “There are fifteen wheels that run the Hubless,” says Mike. “There are nine sets of circles in the rear, five in the front, and one under the seat that makes it go, just like a friction drive in a carnival Ferris wheel.” (source) 

The wheels actually stay stationary as the tire rotates around it.  That's what makes it truly hubless.  While Billy's bike appears hubless the wheels actually turn as the tire does.  In fact it's a false hub.  Hence the need for a front hub. "

i really need to see this to understand i think, didnt kawasaki trial a hubless set up on a prototype super cross bike in the late 80s ? HTF did that work.  does it just sit in a wheel carrage and roll between set of little wheels ? at 4 hours to change a tyre you'd want to be trailering it every where.

and checkl out this one has fronts too --> http://www.omax.com/amen_motorcycles_case_study.php
« Last Edit: February 01, 2008, 05:25:15 pm by Freakshow »
74 Yamaha YZ's - 75 Yamaha YZ's
74 Yamaha  flattracker's
70  Jawa 2 valve speedway's

For sale -  PRE 75 Yamaha MX stuff, frame, motors and parts also some YAM DT1,2,A and Suzi TS bikes and stuff

Offline matcho mick

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Re: A dork and his money.....
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2008, 12:06:27 am »
1 4 Firko,the resurrection of pigboy crabsure 8), cheers :P
work,the curse of the racing class!!
if a hammer dosn't fix it,you have a electrical problem!!

firko

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Re: A dork and his money.....
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2008, 09:40:06 am »
RE: The Ressurection of Pigboy Crabshaw by The Paul Butterfield Blues Band.
Jeez Mick, you and I would be the only two people left who remember that album. I've still got a mint 1967 vinyl copy.

oops...we've swayed way off the thread. Sorry about that.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2008, 09:42:10 am by firko »

Offline crash n bern

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Re: A dork and his money.....
« Reply #29 on: February 07, 2008, 05:24:09 pm »
So if all the bike manufactures decided to build retro air cooled twin shock  motocrossers I guess most of you guy's wouldn't be interested.

As for Harley Davidson they don't really build retro bikes. If you know their history they've just kept to the same format throughout the last 60 odd years. Currently they're in fashion because of it.

I've used Harley's for commuting for the last 30 years and they've done a pretty good job of it. And yes at times I'm embarrassed to say I ride one because of all the connotations that go with it.