New addition to the family

[LWC82PE]

PE250 brakes are 150mm
Is not as simple as replacing the magnets and away you go. They are not what you would call a 'normal magnet' with a N-S pole at each end. Its a lot more complicated than that. Simple way is to use the 77-79 250 or 175 electrics or 80-84 175 electrics, get one out of USA (RS250 will work) * keep in mind many people do not store flywheels correctly so although you may be getting a good looking flywheel the magnets could be weak. Trying to remagnetise them will cost more than a brand new genuine flywheel and may or may not be sucessful and for a couple hundred you can stick an aftermarket German Power Dynamo on there which are a lot better than the original suzuki system ever was.

As for retaining the magnets, you can use extra ahesive around the outside and in between the magnets. Use a strong ahesive such as Sicaflex. Magnets wont fall out then. The orignal glue goes hard and brittle.

[monaro308]

Thanks Luke & Leith,oldfart
I have what looks to be a pretty damn new flywheel and stator that came in a PE175C with bad rear frame mounts that shagged the back of the engine cases.
I pulled the engine apart and it looked to be a recent rebuild as most of the internals were excellent inc crank and rod.
May chase up a set of C cases one day or rebush the 2 mount holes and keep it aside.
I also have a PE175D engine thats rebuildable but has a worn rod and done a bit of work by the looks of it.
Thats the one i just tried the stator and flywheel on this morning,so i'll use that and read up on modifying the plate holes
Cheers...mario

[monaro308]

On the bike again today to have a play with the stator and flywheel off the 82 PE175D parts engine and see if i can get it running on that.
Did a read up on rotating the stator plate 90deg and drilling and slotting new holes in the 175 plate.
First off i put my dial indicator in the head and read the PE250T flywheel marks for TDC.
1st small mark = .070mm BTDC
2nd long mark = 1.04mm BTDC
3rd small mark = 1.40mm BTDC

Then i read the 175 flywheel and found that the case marker does not line up on TDC or the 3 marks on the flywheel.
So i put masking tape around the flywheel and marked off TDC,0.70mm,1.04mm and 1.40mm with a pen.
Timing was off a few mm compared to the 175 scribed marks.

Above.....The small cutout in the tape is the original 175 scribe marks.
Put the 250 electrics back on to make sure it ran again......no problems
Put the 175 electrics on in the new stator hole position and no go!
Checked for spark and all nice and strong and the 175 coil pulser is definetly in a different postion to the 250 hence moving the stator plate 90 deg.
This bastard's gotta fire....nup no good but has strong spark.
I put the 250 electrics back in JUST to make sure...2 kicks...started and idled.
So i thought bugger it,i will put the 175 electrics back on and put the stator plate in the standard 175 position.
Well fark me...it started 2nd kick
Surprised me alright and just to make sure,i put my timing light on and it was idling at 1.5mm BTDC on the new tape lines measured with the dial indicator.

video....


My bit of homework for the day!

[lukeb1961]

That was my experience with the 400 - the 'small' stator and flywheel dropped in with no alterations. Ran fine.
PE rotor/stator info here:
http://cid-407d7ef0965d3991.office.live.com/self.aspx/Pure%20Enduro/STATORS/ROTOR%5E_MAGNETO.txt

Luke

[LWC82PE]

Just watch you dont get it running backwards. Thats what happens if you use the 77-79 stator/flywheel on the 80-82 250 if you dont move the slots. You should be able to get the 82-84 175 stator to work on the 250. I know a guy in USA that uses that set up. I think you asked about putting a 250 motor in the 175Z/X/D frame. Answer - yes it can be done (a suzuki dealer used to do it bakc in 83/84) and would be less work than your PE 175 in the water cooled RM frame.

[monaro308]

Ahh ok...Luke and Leith.
I thought that all 175 stator plates had to be rotated and slotted and i forgot to read the last part of your document Luke
Leith,yep i am using the PE175D set-up and as i found out  bolt in as is,still it was good to know that the timing marks of the 175 and 250 flywheel differ and the 175 does not line up with the little cast mark on the case.
I could imagine i would have had head aches trying to time it with the timing light.
I agree Leith,the 250 would fit into the PE floater much easier than the RM W/C frame.
I'll take measurements when it comes out,but its staying as a PE250T.
The frame looks quite good,but noticed swingarm bushes will need doing.
Did you ever work out an alternative for the shock eye bushes?
Mine will need work.
Anyway...thanks again.
mario

[LWC82PE]

You mean the shock mounts on the standard shocks.....well

yes the 10mm ID heim bearings in the right hand shock are available. There is 2 c-clips (one each side) that you need to take out first, then the bearing presses out.

I got 2 types here. Both bearings are Askubal/ASK (same brand Ohlins uses  )

GE10-UK
GE10-TGR

Both are 19 OD x 10 ID x 9 inner ball width x 6 outer race width

The UK version is the cheaper one. It is maintenance free with PTFE/Teflon lined race requiring no lubrication
The TGR version is more expensive. Its is maintenance free but is also constructed from stainless steel so thats why it costs much more.

There would be other brands other than ASK that make them eg SKF, INA etc but at the time i could only find them in ASK brand with out spending hours and hours, many emails/phone calls etc. I ordered them directly off the ASK website.

Most bearing shops should recognise the GE10UK number. The GE -UK series is common.

The RHS shock uses the bonded rubber bushes. I have found one place that has them but there would be more i reckon.
They are 23mm OD with 10mm ID (gets reduced to 8mm with the spacers) Basically KYB snowmobile shocks use the same rubber bush but you got to cut them a bit shorter.

Also this place here http://www.whiteline.com.au/ has a pretty big range of chassis bushes, if you download their catalogue you can see what sizes they got. There might be something in there. Suzuki only put rubber bushes in the right shock for cost cutting exercise, if your gonna do serious riding i would probably fit heims on the rhs too. I would probably bore out the eyes 1mm and fit 24mm OD KYB heim bearings.

[monaro308]

Thank you very much Leith,that helps me alot.
cheers....mario

[lukeb1961]

Just watch you dont get it running backwards. Thats what happens if you use the 77-79 stator/flywheel on the 80-82 250 if you dont move the slots. You should be able to get the 82-84 175 stator to work on the 250. I know a guy in USA that uses that set up. I think you asked about putting a 250 motor in the 175Z/X/D frame. Answer - yes it can be done (a suzuki dealer used to do it bakc in 83/84) and would be less work than your PE 175 in the water cooled RM frame.

Leith, this has always puzzled me. I know you said it ran backwards but...  are you certain? The PE250N generally fired at around the same point as the 175's.  If you ever get a chance to repeat, I would love to see the markers as Mario has done marking TDC .

PE175C  18.0 BTDC @ 6000 rpm
PE175N  20.5 BTDC @ 6000 rpm
PE175T  17.5 BTDC @ 8000 rpm
PE175X  17.5 BTDC @ 8000 rpm
PE175Z  19.5 BTDC @ 8000 rpm
PE175D  19.5 BTDC @ 8000 rpm

PE250B  23.0 BTDC @ 6000 rpm
PE250N  18.0 BTDC @ 6000 rpm
PE250T  13.5 BTDC @ 6000 rpm
PE250X  13.5 BTDC @ 6000 rpm
PE250Z  13.5 BTDC @ 6000 rpm

PE400T  17.0 BTDC @ 6000 rpm
PE400X  17.0 BTDC @ 6000 rpm
PE400Z  17.0 BTDC @ 6000 rpm

[LWC82PE]

Yep just ask suzuki400 (Rod). Bike took off backwards Had a 78/79 250 stator on a 80/81 250 and it was only till I or someone told him to move the slots that the prob was fixed.

[monaro308]

Luke....is this any good to you?

TOP = PE175D f/wheel


BOTTOM = PE175C f/wheel

[monaro308]

Would any of you kind PE TX owners be able to take a pic of the 2 battery brackets/tabs that come off the frame and if possible a measurement to the holes from the frame tube and between the 2 holes.
Mine have been cut off on the 250T,and while i'm stripping the frame,i wouldn't mind putting them back on.
The more pics the better....also  pics of the rear indicator tabs....mines cut off too :'(

Thanks and Merry Xmas...mario

Pic courtesy of Luke's site

[LWC82PE]

If you log onto the PE forum, in the files section there is full CAD drawings for the battery holder i spent many hours measuring up. if you go to those you should find the bolt hole spacing for the brackets on those.

I will also try and remember to measure where the lugs sit on the frame for you.

[monaro308]

Thanks Leith,i forgot to look there.
I don't know why people cut them off.They are not in the way.
I can understand the blinker mounts as they could slice you.
I used to run ALL my road gear on my 175X in the bush and never had a problem.
Thanks again
Cheers mario

[monaro308]

PE250 time.....
Since i don't have the battery frame tabs at the moment or even the battery box and hardly ever see them come up for sale,I had a bit of spare time today and checked out Leiths CAD drawings for the PE battery box.
I had some left over sheet metal of the right thickness from my old vulcan wall heater .my tin snips,files,vice and drill.
I used my tig for the spot welds.
I still need to make the tab on the back where the drain/vent tube goes and give it a clean up of the spot welds and corners and a paint job.
Drawings were easy to follow and made sense...to me
Its not a masterpiece,but painted up i'll be pretty happy with the result.
A big thank you to Leith and the PE group!