Mystery 2 stroke engine

[LWC82PE]

I have a mystery 2 stroke engine I don’t know what it is. I got it yesterday, thought it might have been a CZ or Maico or something but it looks really odd. It looks European to me. The guy I got it from said that the guy he got it from said it was a ‘Maytag’, well that’s what he remembers and we are not sure on the spelling but ive been searching for Maytag by that spelling but cant find any engines that look anything close to it and can only seem to find Maytag stationary or washing machine motors that look totally different, so dont think it is a Maytag. To me the motor looks very strange

The only identifying marks I can find are  R98220 and 18272  A3

It has no kickstarter or any real good place where I can see where one went. Except for a few holes at the bottom back and front of the right side of engine. There is no gear lever, but there is a hole at the back of the motor where I reckon a lever was to change gears so perhaps hand change like a Villiers?

Barrel is iron, head is alloy. The radial head does not look original and looks newer than the motor.I reckon the radial head is either off something else or is an aftermarket head as you can see that it doesn’t match the top fin shape of the barrel. The engine is either common enough that the head off another engine fits easily with no mods or it is a aftermarket head made specifically for the motor. There are some markings and numbers on the head and it has a strange shape combustion chamber split into 2 different levels, I think some CZ’s are like this.

The engine has metric threads on it.
The bore size is 64mm so I would say it’s a 250cc or maybe could be a 175?

The motor looks all there inc ignition, apart from gear change and kickstart. It looks like a primary chain has been taken off. I couldn’t really work out if there was a clutch inside yet though without pulling things apart but I think there is or was one in there. It would be good if this was something that is of some value and could make it into a pre 65 engine or something but I don’t have chassis for it. The motor looks big and beefy.

Anyway first I want to find out what it is and how rare.

Let the guessing game begin.





































This last photo shows the markings on the head bolts.

[GD66]

Good find ! Looks ok for its' age...I'd have thought a DKW or a Puch.

[LWC82PE]

Well it was very dusty and oily so i blocked everything off and gave it a clean and try and find a brand name. I will try looking for DKW or Puch and see what i can find thanks.

[LWC82PE]

I did some more looking and found some more stuff stamped on it around the barrel mounting flange

On the front - R98220 (matches number on cases)
On the Right - 2152z   207
On the outside of the right transfer port is - Br )S(    - is has 'Br' and then under it a strange 'S' symbol in what looks like reverse brackets
On the left - 2. 56  Then it has a symbol witten which is like a fraction (eg 1/4) but it has a Y with  a - (dash) underneath it then under the dash is a .3 (so Y over .3) Then along side that is 00

I lifted the barrel a bit and could read the following on the rod

WG (in a sort of logo) 5050 and on the otherside of the rod is R1161z 151

On the piston i could see NORAI 2361 and 6413 9 60  or 09 6

There may have been more numbers inside piston but i didnt want to take the barrel right off now.

So far the only meaningful numbers are 2. 56 which i reckon at least mean the barrel was made in February 1956 which means its good for Pre 60 class!

Then there is NORAI on the piston which might be the brand of piston?
As long as i can find out the brand of motor i should be able to find out info on it. I took the maggy cover off but could not see any visible numbers or names, thought i might have seen 'Bosch' stamped on it somewhere not that it would have ment much. I reckon there must of been a starting lever that hinged out to the right side from underneath the right side of the motor as there is 2 holes that look like there was a shaft through there but when i had that cover off i couldnt really see how a starter lever would engage with anything unless theres bits missing.

[oldfart]

Search thru " R "  series production bikes  as the letter R seems to pop up a lot 

[LWC82PE]

What do you mean? Where do i find a list of R series production bikes?

[paco]

If its of any help;the word,' norai'  is spanish for bollard.paul.

[mainline]

looking around on google after trying the decipher that brand casting in the head I came up with Aleu, Alma, and the British (not Greek) company Alta as small companies that did two strokes for brief periods. There weren't a lot of pics, those I found had engines that looked similar but not identical.

[oldfart]

Leith ....I thought you would of had this site saved
http://www.ozebook.com/r.htm

[LWC82PE]

Never seen it before

Well I tried looking for R series bikes on Google but all I kept finding was BMW R series and Yamaha R1 etc

The magneto case was looking pretty rusty so I thought I would just wire brush it to see if there was any markings, then to my surprise I saw a ‘Noris’ logo. I knew I had seen that logo before but couldn’t think where. Then it clicked, I am restoring 3 1950’s Adler twins and they use Noris branded electric horns and the horn grills have the same Noris logo. There was also some other numbers and a arrow on the magneto case. So that tells me that the Noris must have been a company that made electrical items such as magnetos and horns for European bikes. The Adler is German but im not sure if Noris is a German company aswell.

So thats a bit more info found out but still have no clues to  what make the engine is.

Mainline, can you send the links you found?

The head may be english but its not a bad fit on the motor. The motor has to European for sure, its got M6 & M8 threads all over it. I havent seen any Euro motors withe radial heads like that from that period so i think it might be a later head or aftermarket. A straight fin head is more typical for OEM of this period i reckon.

I just looked at one number on the head and it is R273z 156 and there is a number on the rod that is R1161z 151
So the numbers are similar and perhaps the head is orignal. There seems to be a lot of little 'z' in the numbers cast on the parts

[worms]

looks like a ambassdor popular motor, very much a villiers barrel, 1950 era .

other than that i dont know

[LWC82PE]

What country are Ambassdor motors made in? or is it Ambassador?

Ok they are UK but it doesnt look like any of these

http://www.ozebook.com/ambassador.htm

[LWC82PE]

Well, whos an expert on Zundapps? Yep im 99.9% sure thats what it is. The head is later and is off a Zundapp for sure, looks like they are on the sloper engines with cylinder layed forward from the 1960's sometime. Mine is verticle. The magneto on the left and the right side engine cover rough shape also look like Zundapp. The only thing is all the ones i have seen have a plain right engine cover with Zundapp cast in but the one i have got has is totally different and has that square section towards the bottom. I cant find any Zundapps with that type of primary cover. I also searched for some of the numbers i found on the rod and barrel and found that they are part numbers. The number on the rod led me to an ebay add selling a rod and big end. I just havent been able to work out what model Zundapp or why mine has that different right side primary cover.

Actually, just loooking at this one with red tank i can see that extension bit down the bottom of the case. Still, its nothing like the cover i have.





Maybe im missing the kickstart assembly that attaches onto the outside of the front sprocket like this.




close but twin port

[pancho]

by the photo evidence the design features point towards zundap being responsible. the head bolts look a bit agricultural [thats not a complement,] what size are they? look like about 3/8" if so, may-be you loosened them with a 3/8 drive socket extension bar. not a lot of square socket spanners around! cheers pancho.

[LWC82PE]

Head bolts were 8mm or maybe 10, i didnt pay too much attention. The barrel studs were 8mm i know that. All i used for the head bolts was a 12 point socket, 14mm from memory. Initially i thought damn what can i undo the head bolts with but then i clicked that a normal 12 point socket the correct size would work fine. All the threads are metric which makes sense being German. Dont know if this engine is worth much? its probably rare in Australia. Anyway when i find out exactly what it is then i will work out what to do with it.