Author Topic: Pre 90/Pre 95 in Classic MX. An idea whose time has come?  (Read 51549 times)

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Offline Shaun G

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Re: Pre 90/Pre 95 in Classic MX. An idea whose time has come?
« Reply #210 on: September 22, 2010, 01:35:00 PM »

Nathan where do you propose to run these new classes ? above you state that nobody wants to see other classes killed off, so where in a already crowded race day do your new classes fit in ?

What is so wrong with starting a breakaway movment to suit your new eras  ? You obviously have a passion for these eras so why not put that to good use with your new movment.



Bill as you are not from NSW I'll excuse your ignorance regarding the way VMX currently operates here.

A new class can easily be inserted into a HEAVEN race program by simply replacing one of the many Junior races that are currently being used as filler events while us old farts get our breath back. By the way, horror of horrors, these juniors for the most part compete on modern machinery.

By starting a break away movement you would in all probability be sounding the death knell for either HEAVEN or the new movement. HEAVEN without EVO and Pre 85 would be reduced to similar to what the Penrith Pre '75 club has become. And if you think another movement would not dilute the current HEAVEN Evo onwards participation numbers you're kidding yourself.

Cheers
Shaun

TM BILL

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Re: Pre 90/Pre 95 in Classic MX. An idea whose time has come?
« Reply #211 on: September 22, 2010, 02:15:56 PM »
My apologies i didn't realise Nathans suggestions or Graemes original post ONLY suggested later classes for the heaven club.
I believed that this thread pertianed to all of Australia  ??? my mistake .

Offline Nathan S

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Re: Pre 90/Pre 95 in Classic MX. An idea whose time has come?
« Reply #212 on: September 22, 2010, 02:28:37 PM »
My apologies i didn't realise Nathans suggestions or Graemes original post ONLY suggested later classes for the heaven club.
I believed that this thread pertianed to all of Australia  ??? my mistake .

Fair point, but NSW is where the controvesy is. Other states are either doing pre-90 already, or they're still a few years away/not interested.

But I guess the point remains, that just because its in the rule book, doesn't mean that any club has to run events for these bikes.
The good thing about telling the truth is that you don't have to remember what you said.

montynut

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Re: Pre 90/Pre 95 in Classic MX. An idea whose time has come?
« Reply #213 on: September 22, 2010, 02:31:45 PM »
No one is suggesting that EVO and Pre85 would or should move to some other club / movement. Presently the Heaven Club Era spread is acceptable to the majority of members (I believe).

The problem is that adding Pre90 and possibly Pre95 stretches that beyond a sustainable point. Currently the tracks are just capable of accommodating all eras raced. Sometimes the track extends the Pre75 bikes to their limits and sometimes the track is a little less challenging than ideal for the Evo and particularly the Pre85. Everyone generally accepts this.

By the Pre90 era virtually all the manufacturers had well sorted linkage or single shock rear ends, forks had moved on to ‘relatively’ modern design. Water cooling, power valves etc had been very well engineered in most cases. These bikes are capable of handling far more challenging tracks and most riders of these bikes will want to be challenged.

Yes everyone likes grass tracks and smoother tracks than raced on in the actual periods the bikes where new in deference to generally older human bodies. The ‘fun’ factor of VMX or RMX or whatever also demands that. I do not think that it is possible to accommodate all eras at one meeting for MX. Road Racing and Dirt Track are completely different in that regards.

Offline vmx42

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Re: Pre 90/Pre 95 in Classic MX. An idea whose time has come?
« Reply #214 on: September 22, 2010, 02:34:59 PM »


Let's go round again. It was great the first time…

Now is a time for action, enough words have died for this cause.
VMX42
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Beam me up Scotty, no intelligent life down here…

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shoey

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Re: Pre 90/Pre 95 in Classic MX. An idea whose time has come?
« Reply #215 on: September 22, 2010, 02:54:16 PM »
Incoming


Offline whitey 43

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Re: Pre 90/Pre 95 in Classic MX. An idea whose time has come?
« Reply #216 on: September 22, 2010, 03:17:35 PM »


Totally off subject, who made that pipe? Looks awesome! Mite get one made for my pre '90... :)

TM BILL

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Re: Pre 90/Pre 95 in Classic MX. An idea whose time has come?
« Reply #217 on: September 22, 2010, 03:28:27 PM »


PS Come on TMBill, admit you want to buy a 1988 RM250,come out of the closet!!



One of my favorite RMs of all time Liz  ;D i would have one in a heartbeat  :) but liz i wouldn't bullshit myself its a VMX bike  ;)

firko

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Re: Pre 90/Pre 95 in Classic MX. An idea whose time has come?
« Reply #218 on: September 22, 2010, 03:29:24 PM »
Somebody, anybody, please do something positive or move on and enjoy what you've already got. This pre 90 saga has been going on for at least two years with bugger all happening because nobody has the goolies (sorry  Adrian, I don't mean you) :D to do anything but post their theories on a forum. If HEAVEN have shown reluctance to change their charter, go to another club and float your proposal. There are a number of clubs that are going through flat periods that'd love an opportunity to increase club membership and renew activity. We did it with Penrith years ago and Shoey, Ribbo and Husky Pete did it by going ito cahoots with Manly club to get Vinduros up and running in NSW.

This forum talkfest is becoming tedious and does nothing but create angst within the vintage community. Nobody's disputing that pre 90/95 won't be a part of the future but the big question is whether it's right to lump these late model bikes in with bikes from earlier eras.  If Nathan, Sugar and the other Pre 90 advocates have steadfast belief in the future of post 85 motocross being a good thing it's time they as a group stopped talking and started doing.

If I was heading the pre 90/95 proposal I'd start the ball rolling by first up calling a meeting for all interested punters via posts on forums and press releases to all of the magazines to be held at central venue to test the water and create some sort of brains trust to help rough out a sensible proposal to take to a club. Because Penrith and HEAVEN are offering their own brand of vintage racing, I'd be looking at presenting a package to a club that offers a slightly different product than what the other clubs offer. Offering them a package of say....Pre 90 and pre 95 plus and perhaps a two stroke only modern class.(this is merely an example of a proposal that wouldn't significantly cut into HEAVENS base structure). To push this new concept it's imperative to approach the media including magazines such as ADB and DA with a well thought out article describing what you're proposing, emphasising what makes it different from traditional vintage racing. Having a media heavyweight backing your new concept is an important key to selling the class to new market. Offering a bike for said media mogul to race at an event is one way of getting the desired magazine pages. I'm positive that most new racers for the class would be drawn from the modern ranks so that's where most of the promotion should be aimed. From my experience with the modern motorcycle media, they have little interest in pre 78/Evo style racing but I'm fairly confidant they could relate to the pre 95/two stroke motocross as the bikes fit into their demographic far easier than twin shock bikes. I'd also be hammering all of the Aussie motocross forums with the idea, once again emphasising the difference from traditional vintage racing which most young 'dudes' have no interest in.

Of course, all of this takes time, commitment and great personal sacrifice. It's not something that will happen overnight and will require patience and the ability to handle rejection and scorn without publicly spitting the dummy. It took me two years of lobbying and letter writing to get a foot in the door but I was convinced I was right. With 21st century internet communication including forums, websites, facebook and other social media outlets, the message is much easier to distribute so I reckon you could cut my two years of work down to six months.

I'm basing all of the above on my personal belief that these proposed  later divisions don't belong under the VMX banner and that their spititual home is tied in within the modern movement*. The ever growing VMX class structure must eventually become too crowded so the pre 90 or pre 95 cutoff is probably the right place to start the separation process. Both different divisions can coexist with cross promotions possible and, in the beginning encouraged to make up the numbers.
There's a few hurdles to jump but it's all possible if you want it bad enough. All that's needed is a driven individual to oversee the whole process.

*(Purely a personal opinion, I'm prepared to be proven wrong.)

suzuki43

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Re: Pre 90/Pre 95 in Classic MX. An idea whose time has come?
« Reply #219 on: September 22, 2010, 05:09:51 PM »
Sounds like a great idea Firko,I shall now refrain from comment,and enjoy my evening; sipping a cheeky Kiwi Savignon, and reading my just arrived shipment of UK DBR mags; all Pre 90 Satanic verses of course!!
and no velcro gloves tonight.....

Good luck with Pre 90 in NSW men.... :-*

STW996

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Re: Pre 90/Pre 95 in Classic MX. An idea whose time has come?
« Reply #220 on: September 22, 2010, 05:10:05 PM »
Look I have stayed out of this long enough.

I have pre 90 bikes

I like pre 90 bikes

I would never call them vintage as they are not of vintage note (Gee I dont call my Evo bikes vintage!), sure now older bikes but not vintage, a pre 95 bike is (in my opinion) just a newer version of a pre 90 bike that currently does not have "vintage" status as by the MA manual.

I would be happy for pre 90 to sit as a club only class for a few years yet, little lone promote pre 95 (foot note to this the SCMCC run pre 90 as an event at club days at Conondale and have yet to break double figure entries after 3 events!)

I though Nathan was being tongue in cheek at first but as it turns out you are not?

I would agree with Firko on this the vintage seen needs a lot of help to get it going strong again (racing wise, as CD 7 was a big success) before it needs more classes to run at national level. As I have said at club level great but come on guy's it is hardly vintage is it. The point being lost on most people is that a true vintage bike needs to be ridden with some care and is an art form to watch the speed some people can ride them at! but a pre 90 bike is an easy bike to ride that anyone can master (to their on level) pretty well first ride out. I would say my pre 90 250 (CR250) is about 8/10ths of my 09 450x i ride, but my 74 CR 250 shares the same name only. thats the way I see it.

Ride them (pre 95) if you like but check out your local club first, as they would love to have the extra entries.

Having said all that, if blokes have vintage bikes that are not being used then how about supporting the sport and putting them up for sale so people have bikes to buy and run!!

Shane




« Last Edit: September 22, 2010, 05:26:03 PM by STW996 »

Offline Shaun G

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Re: Pre 90/Pre 95 in Classic MX. An idea whose time has come?
« Reply #221 on: September 22, 2010, 05:14:18 PM »
Somebody, anybody, please do something positive or move on and enjoy what you've already got. This pre 90 saga has been going on for at least two years with bugger all happening because nobody has the goolies (sorry  Adrian, I don't mean you) :D to do anything but post their theories on a forum. If HEAVEN have shown reluctance to change their charter, go to another club and float your proposal. There are a number of clubs that are going through flat periods that'd love an opportunity to increase club membership and renew activity. We did it with Penrith years ago and Shoey, Ribbo and Husky Pete did it by going ito cahoots with Manly club to get Vinduros up and running in NSW.


Mark I trimmed your post somewhat however what you said makes a great deal of sense.

You may not be aware that I have submitted a request with the required member support for a special general meeting to consider amending the current HEAVEN constitution to once again allow the possibility of introducing newer class at a later date with the support of the membership This request has been tied up in technicalities within the constitution (which I wont bore you all with here) as to how and by what manner the meeting must be conducted. Suffice to say that there is no firm resolution as yet.

My enthusiasm for making this work with HEAVEN is solely down to a belief that the introduction of another "VMX" club in NSW would do neither organisation any good at all.

In HEAVEN we have a club who's original charter was to provide an opportunity for post '75 bikes and riders somewhere to compete.

A new organisation aimed at later model bikes would in my opinion also attract a number of current EVO and Pre '85 riders and as it stands at the moment I feel that if HEAVEN needed to rely more on older classes this could have disastrous consequences for the club. Of course this wouldn't be a problem if guy's with older bikes supported HEAVEN events in more numbers.

Recently there has been interest shown in aligning a pre '90 register with modern clubs and promoters and I understand that there may be some positive outcomes in this area in the near future. As you say you need someone to drive this to make it happen.

Cheers
Shaun

suzuki43

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Re: Pre 90/Pre 95 in Classic MX. An idea whose time has come?
« Reply #222 on: September 22, 2010, 05:23:02 PM »
Welcome back Mr Frodo
Your words of wisdom have been missed.
Ooops back to the satanic verses!!!!!


Offline Nathan S

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Re: Pre 90/Pre 95 in Classic MX. An idea whose time has come?
« Reply #223 on: September 22, 2010, 06:55:53 PM »
I though Nathan was being tongue in cheek at first but as it turns out you are not?

My main reason for bringing it up was in a (futile) attempt to get people to stop and think, rather than just go with their knee-jerk reaction.

I still want people to take the time to think about pre-95 and why it is, or is not, likely to be a part of the old bike scene in the foreseeable future - without simply trying to justify their initial response which is usually along the lines of "but they're almost new!!"...

I'm not claiming that we should be introducing pre-95 in the next year or two. But the optimist within me hopes that when we get closer to the time, we can actually have a sensible discussion on the topic, without the emotion that has dogged the pre-90 debate.
The good thing about telling the truth is that you don't have to remember what you said.

Evil Rudy

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Re: Pre 90/Pre 95 in Classic MX. An idea whose time has come?
« Reply #224 on: September 22, 2010, 08:28:13 PM »
STG you have my proxy brother, send me the form to sign.

Anyhoo we have more to worry about, like paying back the overwhelming spending spree that the chinless, barren, lemon and her sidekick Mr. Hand spent last year.

I just figured it out that every man woman and child in Oz is now in debt to (insert innocuous third world country we borrowed the money from) approx $22,000 each.

Wow the interest on that $900 check they sent out sure has grown.

Don’t even get me started about her live in handbag / hairdresser...

Toodles,
ER