The question has been answered thank you very much.

[evo550]

Doc,

Sounds like you need a KTM 250/300 2t.
Cheap and reliable, with the added advantage of power delivery tunability through the ignition and power valve spring.
You want a bike thats a homicidal maniac you got one, you want a bike that your granny can ride you can have that too, with the flick of a switch and 30 sec on an allen key.
They are shit hot.

[VMX247]

regular servicing plays a critical role .

So very true with all bikes.Trust me I sign the cheques 
http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?topic=11702.0

[vmx42]

How the younger guys race these things for 40minutes + 2 laps per race is totally beyond my comprehension!

They don't. We haven't had 40 minute motos for years. Even GPs and AMA Nationals aren't that long. Pussies!! 

[Hoony]

Doc,

Sounds like you need a KTM 250/300 2t.
Cheap and reliable, with the added advantage of power delivery tunability through the ignition and power valve spring.
You want a bike thats a homicidal maniac you got one, you want a bike that your granny can ride you can have that too, with the flick of a switch and 30 sec on an allen key.
They are shit hot.

I agree there Evo, mines a 05' 300exc your on the money mate !

[DR]

They don't. We haven't had 40 minute motos for years. Even GPs and AMA Nationals aren't that long. Pussies!!

Actually Jeff I was slightly off mark sorry the recent AMA MX World Championship motocross races I've been watching of late are 35 minute + 2 laps which still equates to about 40 minutes per heat. The regular AMA Nationals run 30 minutes + 2 laps. Give or take a few minutes it's still a huge ask at the pace the top guys maintain

Will hopefully have a shot on the new 2 stokers later in the year when I head back out west for another ride (again courtesy of Sully) Lots to think about between now and then but I can say it will take a lot to sway me away from the new KX250's. Even though they are all probably much of a muchness I just can't get over how well the Kawa suited me, I felt more at home on that than I have with any bike I've ever ridden including vintage (hurts to say that but eh..it's truth )

[MX125B]

I love vintage motocross, love spending hours looking at photos and reading these forums. But when i go riding, i am on a new KX450F. 

[monaro308]

I'll put in my 2 bobs worth.After owning my 06 WR450F for a year and a half,it basically turned me off riding.
I ride at Rokeby and Bluerock which are full of tight single tracks and very hilly terrain.
I am a novice type rider but the height and the way the 450 carried the weight high really pissed me off.
Doing a u turn on a very tight single track and trying to get a leg down to support myself and once the WR got to a certain angle it felt like all of it's 120 odd kgs would want to fall on you.
The sit-on-top feel of the brick seats felt weird after being used to sit-in types and being up in the clouds.
The front end had a mind of its own and spat me off a few times adding to the hate of riding.
Chopping the throttle on the 4 bangers really stuffed up my corner entries which added to my steering woes.
Then trying to pick up a lump of steel on the side of a hill when you're knackered doesn't help when i'm 5'7ish and 72kg.
After putting together the 85 RM/PE175 and riding it...these 2 bikes were like chalk and cheese.
My mates don't believe me when i say the RM rides,handles,turns, BETTER than the WR and is an absolute blast to ride fast,trying to make it do things that i couldn't do on the WR.
The best thing is the weight and how loooow it is carried.Laying on the ground i can pick it one handed at the grip,no top heaviness....nuttin'!
Don't get me wrong,the WR450F is a great bike.....for a taller and stronger bloke.
It just didn't suit me and i made excuses to not go riding. I can't get enough of the RM because it is a hoot to ride and is so light which is why i like it.
If i were to get another modern i would like to try out the KTM300

[STW996]

Doc,

Sounds like you need a KTM 250/300 2t.
Cheap and reliable, with the added advantage of power delivery tunability through the ignition and power valve spring.
You want a bike thats a homicidal maniac you got one, you want a bike that your granny can ride you can have that too, with the flick of a switch and 30 sec on an allen key.
They are shit hot.

I agree there Evo, mines a 05' 300exc your on the money mate !

Hoony I have just torn my top pocket (I have no son!)

[Paddles]

I ride both modern and old bikes recreationally and the thing that strikes it home for me is how did guys manage to ride motocross so fast on those old things back in the day, they are just so much harder to ride.

I bought my first (and possibly my last) 4 stroke modern this year. It's an RMZ450 and is a simply fantastic bike to ride, but the two things that will put me off the 4 strokes and point me back to 2 strokes are:

- the heat that these things generate is crazy. basically you need to keep moving whilst it's running or it'll start to boil the coolant where the old 2 banger could sit there and idle happily and not overheat.

- the oil change intervals at 6 hours (for my bike anyway). because these things are so highly strung to get power out of them with light weight components and close tolerances the oil breaks down very quickly from both heat and also fuel contamination (blow by). the servicing is already similar intervals to a 2s for major components like pistons/rings and now valve clearances and valve springs, but top quality synthetic oils cost between $25-30 a litre and then a genuine oil filter is $18 means a servicing materials alone will cost around $50 every 6 hours which is ridiculous. keep an eye open for cheaper non-genuine filters on ebay, but the oil cost is still there.

other than that though, they're awesome. i can truly appreciate now why no-one could ever be competitive on 2 stroke machinery against these modern 4 strokes. it's just as a recreational ride bike it's hard to justify the expense.

[vmx42]

I can truly appreciate now why no-one could ever be competitive on 2 stroke machinery against these modern 4 strokes. it's just as a recreational ride bike it's hard to justify the expense.

That might have something to do with the 80 to 100% capacity advantage over the 2 strokes. 

[Mike52]

I recognize that the new bikes are better , with 30 years of development they should be, but on trail rides they don,t seem to out perform the old stuff. Chuck in a few hills , bit of deep mud , deep dust and you seem to have a problem.
 From what I,ve seen they are not fun at all.
I am not including mx in this observation.

[TM BILL]

Will hopefully have a shot on the new 2 stokers later in the year when I head back out west for another ride (again courtesy of Sully) Lots to think about between now and then but I can say it will take a lot to sway me away from the new KX250's. Even though they are all probably much of a muchness I just can't get over how well the Kawa suited me, I felt more at home on that than I have with any bike I've ever ridden including vintage (hurts to say that but eh..it's truth )
[/quote]

Good on yer Doc  I apologise my previous post was all the usual anti modern i hate young people venom  and thats not what this threads about.

Its great that you got the oppertunity to go ride these modern bikes and even better that you enjoyed them so much

I agree that the 250F is a lot more fun than the 450s , and as you say they are a lot more predictable and forgiving than our vintage rides 

You have done your apprentiship on two stokes and i believe that actually makes you enjoy the modern 4 stroke all the more. I think anyone who is serious about racing MX needs to learn to go fast on a 2 stroke first.

I might take off the Blinkers  this weekend and leave the RMX in the shed and take the 250F on a trail ride and see if my opinion changes when riding them with an open mind 

Doc we know your hearts in Vintage but its great that you have found another avenue of fun on two wheels.

[vmx42]

Will hopefully have a shot on the new 2 stokers later in the year when I head back out west for another ride (again courtesy of Sully) Lots to think about

Good on yer Doc  I apologise my previous post was all the usual anti modern i hate young people venom  and thats not what this threads about.

Its great that you got the oppertunity to go ride these modern bikes and even better that you enjoyed them so much

I agree that the 250F is a lot more fun than the 450s , and as you say they are a lot more predictable and forgiving than our vintage rides 

You have done your apprentiship on two stokes and i believe that actually makes you enjoy the modern 4 stroke all the more. I think anyone who is serious about racing MX needs to learn to go fast on a 2 stroke first.

I might take off the Blinkers  this weekend and leave the RMX in the shed and take the 250F on a trail ride and see if my opinion changes when riding them with an open mind 

Doc we know your hearts in Vintage but its great that you have found another avenue of fun on two wheels.

Come on Bill 'man up' and tell us what you really think. It looks like you are going soft in your old age… 

[DR]

It looks like you are going soft in your old age…

I know I am Jeff! seriously though, at vintage events it's all vintage naturally but I have to ask myself the question of why beat myself to a pulp play racing and trail riding when I don't have to? I only ride for the fun. That little Kwak put the same silly smile on my face as the RM400 did when I first purchased it as a fifteen year old back in 1978 Same deal now, these things are head and shoulders above anything I've previously ridden/owned and it encourages me to be a little more advantageous. I would have been really baulked to ride this track at speed on any of my bikes as the whoops would swallow a poor little TM and the big RM would never have been as predictable to ride as fast in the sandy conditions. Kind of opened up a 25 lull that I'd been experiencing. It took me back to the old mindset of wanting to jump jumps and not being afraid to hit berms with some gusto rather than worrying about what I might break or what might break me The toll on the body at the end of the day is a big factor more-so now then ever before When I look back, I've spent a heck of a lot more than 9k on vintage bikes and bits in the last decade, I don't ride every weekend..maybe every 23rd weekend so I imagine a new bike now would most likely see out my riding days. I made the RM400 last me 20+ years before I started for other toys and I feel sure the old darlings wouldn't mind sharing the garage with a modern..even if it is green. Sounds like I've already sold myself eh

Bill, no worries mate up till last weekend I had no time or desire to have anything remotely modern The real reason for the topic was  2fold..to thank Ray for sure but also more to the point, I was shattered though most definately a good shattering or I wouldn't be talking the silly talk like I am now

[evo550]

I can truly appreciate now why no-one could ever be competitive on 2 stroke machinery against these modern 4 strokes. it's just as a recreational ride bike it's hard to justify the expense.

That might have something to do with the 80 to 100% capacity advantage over the 2 strokes. 

Bang on vmx42, the ONLY reason that modern 4 strokes are competitive is that they are allowed to compete against 2 strokes half their capacity. Imaging if a crf 150 had to line up against a ktm 150, or a yzf 250 had to line up against a yz 250 or a kxf 450 had to line up against a kx 500. No contest.