The question has been answered thank you very much.

[Canam370]

uh,Retro, where'd the other 10% go?

[All Things 414]

I love the lack of egos and bullsh at old bike events (at least compared to modern events);

Geez. These modern events must be really bad these days......

[retrowrex]

Thats for the fast guys to know and the rest of us to ponder!  The 10 secret herbs and spices percentage thingos!

[Mike52]

Mike 52.  Would there be a little rider ability coming out there?  Or are the newies just too tall for the old paddle.  They should out handle there way up with plently speed, deflecting off the rocks and roots.  The old Husky did it oh so easy.
Still love the old bikes.  They were/are fat and slow by todays standards but all is made up for with the nostalga and atmoshpere at the classic bike rides. Every year for decades they have been at the least slighly improved on the previous model, (Even if it was just prettier stickers).  And there have been sooo many major advances.
How many 2010 Suzukis were overtaken at CD6 and CD7 by much older and smaller cced classic bikes?
Bike ability 10% rider ability 75%. 5% good luck.
Retro

I agree about the ability but those new bikes make it all so easy. Electric start and all. I,ve been stuck behind some of these guys on my 86 250 exc and had to wait for them to get out of the road so I could kickstart my 860mm seat height left hand kick KTM and ride around them.
Yes the suzi,s were quick at CD7 but the kid on the XR80 wasn,t too shabby either.   Husky guy makes it look easy don,t he ?

[Mike52]

The modern 4 stroke does absolutley nothing for me and iv'e been lucky enough to ride a few. However at a push i would ride (race ) a modern 2 stroke but preferably with the blokes i ride old bikes with.
These days its not the bikes i dont like its the kids in the sport i generally dont like.
This might do it for somone
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=300834308

I was at a Enduro round at Goomburra a couple of weeks ago and talked to an older rider. He was good . Told me about the over 45,s class.
I asked him about the over 55,s and got a laugh.
Every one else seemed to be preoccupied.
Anyone remember the old days and the windups , pissups and general outrageous fun. [Talking enduro,s here]
We used to race with a hangover. Some people [ no names] raced stoned. Tough guys them.

[BAHNZY]

Doc,
We have the best of both worlds down here in VICTORIA with the VIPER series. To support the hosting club in both $ and looking after their members, VIPER allows a Modern "OPEN" class on the day. I race my 1984 RM125 in the Pre85 125/250 class then jump on the late model RM125 and have a crack in the modern class. Gotta have the brain switched on as the styles of riding are just a little different. 

Bahnsy

[VMX247]

just I needed to get my head out of the sand. These newer models are absolute weapons and worth hoping on any chance you get to ride one

Great weekend Doc..good for you.
Vintage Nationals Conondale 09 & Classic Dirt 7 Conondale these two event we were definitely outside our box and head out of the sand events.    Pre85's are a whole new world. 
Steven had the test ride on the 2010 SUZUKI 450 at CD7 and couldn't fault it.Though can't justify the price and no compliance plate available.
He very rarely rides boy child's 06-08 models due to the fact that they are too fast and basically scare the shit out of ya.(our secret) 
We really are lucky to be able to see/ride all of the different era's,and yes !its the people that make vmx/mx that does it for us 
cheers A

[DR]

I'm not comparing vmx to modern MX nor the people involved nor attitudes in general. I'm not a racer or club type person and trail riding with mates is my preferred discipline. I am however giving a half serious ride impression from someone who's never ridden a modern 4 stroke before. As I stated, I found nothing at all to compare. The new bikes are simply stunning in all departments. Bill, I think the 2 biggest things that stick in my mind are the instantaneous power delivery and the way you can push the front end into corners and they stick like shat to a blanket. Along with the brilliant brakes and plush suspension when added together it equates to pinpoint accuracy which in turn inspires confidence allowing me to ride much more safely, smoother and faster than I ever thought possible. I can't argue with that because 'for me' it's fact. Love them or hate them I certainly don't expect moderns to float everyone's boat but as expected they are a far cry from the mx bikes of old and something I now desperately desire

Rod, I soon found out about the differing riding styles It didn't take long to get used to it which surprised me a lot but I'd been watching a lot of the AMA series and moderns lately and even viewing a few Everts training vids in the lead up so I had a vague idea of what's required beforehand Basically this was, loosen up, elbows out, get over the front, crank it and hang on. The rest seemed to come naturally after a few heart starters that told me I was doing the wrong things  

Alison, the track was super fast and super sandy in most places but not once did this cause an issue ( I lie, just once the front turned in when I didn't want it to )..I still can't believe the handling. As for the price well it depends on perspective I guess. Was told tonight the new KX250's are under 9 grand. To me that sounds pretty reasonable considering what you get..and it's brand new    

[NR555]

The new bikes are great.  You can just charge into everything without even thinking about it.  After riding an old bike, you wonder what magazine testers find to whinge about.  The standard we get on modern bikes is so high, that any problems are often no more than niggles.

Riding them (and more specifically, racing them) does make you quicker on an old bike.  But like a lot of people have found, riding them both on the same day is risky.  I've cracked frames, smashed hubs, even blown a shock to pieces trying to jump something I shouldn't have..

[TonyB]

I too only have a vmx bike (iz465) and i have on the occasion ridden with mates (on modern bikes) in the forests and I just got used to the bone jarring ride and bad brakes but i more or less keep up the pace ( not lately though) . Then i rode my sons kx250f around a 5km loop in the forest and couldnt believe the ease at which i could maintain speed and accuracy. I also could not fault the power and on the occasion found the thing wanting to stand vertically with the power on. I am truely amazed at the power delivery of this thing compare to my 2 stoke 465. mmm we have come a long way. I will be getting a modern bike for sure as soon as i get the money. BUT BUT after a days riding after the bikes are clean and side by side in the garage I just keep drooling over the yellow IZ465 NOT the KX , there is still something about the raw beauty of the older 2 strokes....

[vmx42]

Hey Doc,
Can't argue with your perspective on this suddenly thorny question.

But… before you plonk down your hard earned on a new 4-stroke, do yourself a favour and have a ride [beg borrow or steal] on a modern 2-stroke.

I've had a quick jaunt on both the YZ144 and YZ250 and they are a total hoot. So much so that I am considering getting one to put away so I can ride it in VMX events in 2030. I know that like me, you love the 125,s, well the 144 is even more fun. Great modern suspension and brakes - superlight and a terrific engine. When you really get into it, the 250 can be too much of a good thing, but the 144 is almost perfect. Almost as good as the KTM200.

Don't rush into the 4-stroke thing until you have tried the cheaper alternative. You can still do all your own maintenance, the only new thing to learn is powervalve servicing [and that isn't really difficult].

As Lozza says - a 2 stroke is a thing of true beauty.
VMX42

[Shaun G]

Gotta agree with Jeff.

I reckon a modern 2 stroke is every bit as much of a hoot as the new 4 strokes. Maybe the 4ST is easier to ride fast (read: makes an ordinary rider like me look a bit less ordinary) but if your not seriously racing then the 2ST is the way to go imho. If only for the ease of maintenance.

Cheers
Shaun

[Freakshow]

I sold my 4 banger and gone back to the YZ 2 smoker, like riding an armchair. BUT dont forget you cant home fix this shit like you can with the old girls, petrol and spark is all that is required.

[Rossvickicampbell]

what's the latest 2St Enduro bikes - haven't looked much but wasn't the KTM 300 a 2 smoker - thought that might be a bit of a weapon?

[DR]

I'm not so sure about not being able to do home servicing or repairs Freaky. I know for a fact the KTM's require special tools for disassembly and this was a real turn off but I had a good look through the genuine KX workshop manual and there's little in there that requires any special rocket science knowledge. Fortunately Ray is a bike mechanic, adjustment/replacing the valve shims was discussed and the routine shown to me is piss simple. Nothing special about the engines internally but obviously regular servicing plays a critical role when such close tolerances are involved.

 I will have a ride on a 2 smoker Jeff but to be honest, I fell in love with the linear power curve of the 4 stroke and the way they hook up when short shifted. It didn't seem to matter what gear I was in or how slow/fast I was going, it's just a case of twist the throttle and it's there..instantly!

Tony, the KX stood up on me a few times after giving it a good serve coming out of corners, the RM450 on the other hand simply dug huge trenches, moved a tonne of soil and was not as easy to ride fast..simply too much power for this little black duck I'm afraid fire trails and open areas the 450 would easily rule but around a closed course with plenty of tight corners or simply out for a day of trail riding the 250 is a much easier thing to live with and doesn't sap any energy compared to riding the big bore. The 450 had my arms pumped and me gasping for air before I'd even finish 2 laps. It took about 5 laps on the 250 before things started to get a little sloppy ( I only ride 3 or 4 times a year so fitness is not exactly my forte)

How the younger guys race these things for 40minutes + 2 laps per race is totally beyond my comprehension!