Nationals split: pre-75 or pre-78?

[Brian Watson]

Geez Nathan..that will be why a speedway track gets so rough....those fast bikes....certainly would not be because of the suspension travel.. ....ride a track that has been used by longer travel bikes on a 4/7 bike and you will certainly notice the difference...then after it is all over....sit behind the tractor or grader and see how much effort it takes to get the track back into good condition....Come and ride over here in the West..a real sand track will sort out the "people with their heads in the sand"...

[SAABCOMBI]

You blocks are getting to soft, a fast flowing track will not cut up as much as a tight stop and start race track., get over it and stop useing that for excuss, if the bikes where pre85 or pre90 and the track was tight l would agree. build your tracks to suit pre 65 models and the rest will follow. In 1965 to 1970 the tracks where fast and flowing.

[firko]

Brian, Mick and anyone else from WA, let's remind you again. This decision has little or nothing to do with what you guys do at Narogin or any other meetings under the WAVMX banner. It's about the splitting of eras for the AUSTRALIAN Nationals, an event for the enjoyment of ALL Australian VMX racers, not just West Aussies..
Your dragging out the old track damage card would have some validity when considering Pre 85 or Evo long travel bikes but to blame pre '78 bikes for damaging tracks so badly as to make it unridable for pre '75 bikes is ludicrous and irrelevent.

The long term survial of the 'Classic' era VMX Nationals is the main issue here, not maintaining some single club constitution. I'd like to hear a theory on how the pre '75 Nats can maintain a viable event with a slipping overall entry roll up. Some damn good reasons have been given for splitting the event at pre '78 but all we've got from you guys is the old track damage phurphy and some irrelevent waffle about constitution. Not good enough fellas. You guys can't see the Nationals forrests past the Narrogin trees.
 
It ain't over yet buckeroos. I'm convinced that the future of the "old bike" section of our sport has been compromised by this decision and I'll be doing everything within my power to lobby the commission to reverse this detrimental decision. I sincerely hope others display a bit of passion and do the same.

*I in no way blame the commission for this decision. I know that some of the commission privately support the pre '78 split. They had to make a decision based on the number of submissions recieved. That's where the pre 78 faction shot itself in the foot by not backing Col Metchers proposal.

[Mike]

Firko it has everything to do with what we do at Narrogin if we want to run a National event.  You must be kidding when you say a National event is for the enjoyment of all Australian VMX racers, if it's run in the East you might get a container full of bikes from the west and vice versa. The Pre 78 or pre 75 splits regardless, let's see if the East Coast can manage to get the numbers to run a Nationals, you guys couldn't even manage to get the numbers to get the split you wanted.

[number8]

It sure seems like a lot of unnecessary "brain" damage going on here nothing should be split up why cant the classes that are low on numbers be combined and the classes be awarded accordingly"race with in a race" and why wouldn't you run the Pre 75 classes on the Friday and or Part of the Saturday when the track is at its smoothest then run the newer classes for the remaining days of the weekend "Divided we fall or some class could"

#8

[LWC82PE]

These are some of my thoughts. I dont think 75-77 model bikes are going to cut up the track a great deal more than the pre 75 bikes. I think if the pre 78 class is thrown in with the evo/pre85/pre90, that the pre 75 nats will suffer as its allready been proven/suggested by others that pre 65, pre 60 etc are classes that are becomming extinct at a NATS level and you cant jjust reply on pre the pre 75 class, and the the NATS with the newer classes will become 'The main NATs' and the older one will probably just end up being a pre 75 title unless there is some serious guys with pre 70, pre 65, pre 60 bikes that start racing. And lastly, i think that pre 78 class it self may suffer if thrown in with the evo and newer nats and pre 78 will become like pre 60/pre65 is at the moment in the older classes. i might be totally wrong, but its just my feelings on what could happend but who knows.

Can anyone come up with a list of the most common bikes raced in pre 78 at the moment?

[SAABCOMBI]

We all supported Col Metcher format, was his proposal submitted, if it was that is all we need, how many letters does these guy`s want to show common sence. I have been casting my feelings about this to the commission plus MA Australia, fellow members for years, pre 75 is in trouble, most tracks are shit, we need to concentrate on more nature terrain, natural terrain tracks are used at club level meetings and are good enough to be use at national level meetings. Barrabool would have be better than broadford this year. If the track are right, pre78 bikes won`t cut it up anymore than a pre75 bike would.

[Nathan S]

Can anyone come up with a list of the most common bikes raced in pre 78 at the moment?

I can only really speak about the 125s:
77 RM125Bs are easily the most common bike -they typically account for about half the field.
The rest of the field is typically CRs, older RMs and YZs with the occasional odd-ball bike like a CZ125 or Husky 125 to keep everyone on their toes.
Most of these bikes are well shy of having the full 9" of travel - on the grid with the other pre-78 bikes, my old YZ125D (with 250D suspension) looks like an Evo bike.

The 250s and big-bores seem to be mostly about Euro bikes and YZ250/400Ds. The Hondas were rubbish, the suzukis seem too valuable and the Kawis too rare in this era.

[Nathan S]

Geez Nathan..that will be why a speedway track gets so rough....those fast bikes....certainly would not be because of the suspension travel.. ....ride a track that has been used by longer travel bikes on a 4/7 bike and you will certainly notice the difference...then after it is all over....sit behind the tractor or grader and see how much effort it takes to get the track back into good condition....Come and ride over here in the West..a real sand track will sort out the "people with their heads in the sand"...

Speedway is another red herring - totally different sport, with different riding style, very different bikes and totally different types of track preparation.

I've ridden short travel bikes on tracks that have been 'chopped up' by Evo, pre-85 and modern bikes - at a Vintage meet (even a National level one) the standard of the riders is such that a track that's well prepared does not turn nasty.
At risk of sounding argumentative, I wonder how many WA VMX riders can make the same claim?

Firko it has everything to do with what we do at Narrogin if we want to run a National event.

So what you are saying is "We'll ignore all the reasons For including pre-78 with the older eras, purely because VMXWA might want to run a National at Narrogin in the future"?

[firko]

Mike, this not a you and us situation, it's is for the whole sport. You guys are only looking after your own backyard to the detriment of the sport as a whole. There's a whole lot more to this country and this sport than just Western Australia.

I can't see any more sense in arguing the point on a forum with people who don't see the whole picture. None of you have addressed any of the concerns for the longevity of the 'classic' motocross division that I've raised so I'll raise them with the commission through correct channels.

As I said earlier, this is a long way from settled.

[SAABCOMBI]

All you clever dicks, check out the 1976 cz falta 380 for sale on ebay, look at it in a realistic way, this bike will not destroy a vintage track, it would have know more travel than a 1974 cz that is being raced at meeting through out Australia.  pre 78 must stay.

[bert]

On the contrary Firko. The WA model for running a VMX club shows what can happen to "promote" the sport. The club did have a good hard look at the whole picture and realised that to retain the older classes and ensure that they survive is to restrict the machines to the suspension cut-off. The result - healthy pre-75 numbers.

East coast clubs have missed the boat and are now trying to make the split to satisfy a justification to get the numbers required to make it "financially viable".

If you are really serious about the future of the older classes - you'd be out there riding with them! Wasn't there a pre'75 register being set-up in NSW to rally these machines together? Is there a club actively promoting the pre'75 classes in Oz besides WA?

[SAABCOMBI]

Bert you are not on your own, the classic scramble club meetings are just pre 75, and have a large following of pre65 bikes, but like all these fellows that own these machine keep them locked up in sheds and don`t use them, so you tell me how to unlock these people thoughts, to have them on show. and most of these guy just done have one, they have 10 your more. which this stops other people from obtaining these bikes. so the pre 65 class suffers.

[Nathan S]

East coast clubs have missed the boat and are now trying to make the split to satisfy a justification to get the numbers required to make it "financially viable".

Eh? Split = smaller numbers of riders = harder to make it financially viable.
The main point of splitting the Nationals is to ensure that all riders get a decent amount of track time without needing a five day race meet to fit it all in, particulatly with pre-90 looming on the horizon.

It doesn't matter if the other states have "missed the boat" - you can't turn back time and pretend that pre-78, Evo and pre-85 never existed.
What you can do, is play the cards you've got as best you can - at this point in time, that means working out the best possible way to seperate the classes between the two Nationals title meetings.

[Tossa]

Well the Sandgropers are coming out of the woodwork in support of their club.  Shows a strong club.  But they shouldn't be blamed for their submission.  I believe the clubs in the Eastern states should be to blame for not voicing their opinion.  Why blame us when we put in a submission that some didn't  like, at least it was brought up at our club meeting discussed and voted on.  We supported our club and put one in.  Where were all the other submissions and did anyone attend a club meeting and bring this proposal up to see what their club was doing about it.

The WA vintage scene is very strong and with the pre85 club taking it's first step, should become stronger, I'm a member of that as well

Don't blame a strong club for actually answering the question and providing an answer.  Blame your own clubs for not worrying about it