Nationals split: pre-75 or pre-78?

[firko]

It's pretty obvious that everyone on this side of the island wants a pre '78 split. Unfortunately, hardly anyone backed Col Metchers proposal with their own written submissions. On the other hand though, the West Aussies lobbied well for pre '75 and when the commission met to decide the split, the submissions for a pre '75 split were in strong majority and despite two days of heavy discussion, in the end they had to go with the majority, even if the commissioners personally disagreed .

We can whinge and whine all we like but we seriously fuc*ed up.  There may still be some hope however. Unless some serious written lobbying isn't soon undertaken to try and have them reverse their decision, the split's going to be at pre '75 and we'll only have ourselves to blame. I'm ashamed of myself for not getting my own submission supporting pre 78 in. I took it for granted that those with stakes in the pre 78 cause, the racers, would do the right thing and send in their ideas. Not being a racer, I sat back thinking that shitloads of submissions and support for Cols presentation would go in and the commissioners would have no choice but make the right decision. How wrong was I? I forgot that this is VMX where there's a lot of smooth forum cybertalkers but very few that'll take the time to go through the correct channels to try and achieve their goals. Arguing the point on a forum amounts to two fifths of FA when it comes to getting your message across.

As the Mr Nike once said.....Just Do It

[090]

Well there you go. Give myself an uppercut.
The silent majorities laziness (me included) , has let the pre 78's down.

who ever is making this discission are fools, and have tunnel vision.,

And they have gotten their way.
This is the way it seems to happen. The silent majority says nothing assuming either others will do it or at least common sense will prevail.
I must say that Col and Dave had it sorted but didn't expect to be railroaded by a minority with an agenda. When will we learn that common sense has no place in these types of things. I hear there is plenty of sand in WA so keep your heads where it's comfortable.

[Tossa]

I  I hear there is plenty of sand in WA so keep your heads where it's comfortable.

No sand to speak of at VMXWA home track

[SAABCOMBI]

Brad, l wont pre78 to stay with pre75, l don`t wont to see them with the others,
Pre78 classes
pre 75 classes
pre70
pre65

[SAABCOMBI]

The three man commission, or should l say the three musketeers.

[Brian Watson]

Brad, I don't believe that you can be critical of the WA Club because they actually voiced an opinion...All Clubs and individuals were given the opportunity to comment...those who did were granted due process and consideration was given to all ideas...those who have had their "heads in the sand" are those who have expressed ideas and opinions on this forum..(where it does not count)...but failed to submit to the Classic Motocross Commission... Don't be critical of those who have the courage to speak up..

[Mike]

VMXWA is a pre 75 club, it's members and committee promote pre 75 racing.  The way the club is run preserves pre 75 racing which includes pre 70 and pre 65.  That's what they do and I presume that is what the proposal reflected.  For those who call this short sighted, bad luck, I raced at a pre 75 race day last weekend and there were 70 riders.  This happens because they have fostered and cultivated this era of racing.  They don't do pre 78 and I'm pretty sure aren't planning to in the future. 

If we have had our heads in the sand for promoting our sport successfully for the last fifteen years in Western Australia then I for one am happy to leave it there.  Here's an idea, why don't the knockers pull their heads out of their own arse and start the hard work of promoting, running and supporting whatever club is going to see the sport fostered and preserved in the way they would like.  All I seem to hear on this forum is a bunch of individuals or small groups who seem to show genuine enjoyment and concern for vintage motocross but either don't know how or don't want to make it happen.  By the way there is a group of people in Western Australia that are doing exactly that by having started and affiliated with MWA a pre 85 club and would certainly be happy to have the pre 78 bikes there.  How good is that two dedicated VMX clubs covering all eras up to 1985, the future looks great for VMX in Western Australia.  The way these clubs work is to preserve eras of racing and thats what they do well.

Whatever your oppinion it's a bit rich to call a club that has been dedicated to this sport for fifteen years short sighted and damaging the future of the sport.  I know I'll still be riding pre 75 for years to come, I'm planning for my boy to have his first ride in 2022, the same year I will qualify for the over 55's class. 

[Nathan S]

The real issue is that the proposal relates to one meeting/year, and certain clubs have put their own interests above the interests of the competitors who are actually affected by the proposal.

Let's pretend that the pre-78 classes are included with the pre-75 Nationals: How does this hurt VMXWA or its members?
How is it in VMXWA's best interests to have the pre-78 bikes' riders pushed in with the Evo and newer bikes?
Even if/when VMXWA runs another National title meeting, I cannot see how it would cause them ANY inconvenience to cater for a whole three classes of pre-78 bikes - particularly as its clear that the pre-78 riders fit closely into the pre-75 mold.

Its great that VMXWA structures their club, and runs events around a strict pre-75 only philosophy - it obviously works very well for them.
But to force that philosophy onto unwilling pre-78 riders for the Nats IS short-sighted and pointlessly selfish. What did the WA club hope to gain from their proposal?

Edit: As it stands, VMXWA would be highly unlikely to host another National title meeting, due to their unwillingness to cater for the newer era bikes. Similarly, the competitors are currently racing at Nationals with Evo and pre-85 bikes too.
At worst, the pre-78 vs Evo split would be meeting them (more than) half-way, but apparently that's not good enough.

(Sorry for singling out VMXWA, but their members seem to be the most vocal).

[shoey]

Hey Mike and Brian.

Not many people would think that the clubs in WA are short sighted , more the other way , Most people i speak with are envious of the structure that has been implemented to allow your pre-75 format to flourish.

[firko]

While I commend the WA clubs and individuals for being so organised in lobbying the commission I really think that they've inadvertantly stuck a pin in their own ballon by supporting the pre '75 option.
I understand that the WAVMX has got along quite well promoting an exclusive pre '75 cause but maybe its the remote location or perhaps it is Brads "head in the sand" that's caused them to conveniently ignore the needs of the rest of Aussie VMX. I'd like them to explain just how not including pre '78 in their submissions is going to help our sport?

On a national basis pre '75 is still going fairly well, way down on the boom times of 15 years ago but still arguably the strongest faction. However, the pre 70, pre 65 and four stroke divisions are currently stagnant and pre 60 is dead and buried at anything above club day level.
To assume that the 'classic' Nats can survive relying on the strength of pre '75 and three sick divisions and one dead division is bordering on stupidity. There is no room for future growth and relying on the blind faith that the pre '75 division will remain strong into the future is indeed "head in sand" stuff.

By adding pre '78 into the classic equation we gain two things. The first is the obvious more entries, taking the load off the pre '75 classes. The second is that it creates a window for future growth by offering a class that offers something to a younger generation racer who cannot relate to the 7"and 4" suspension limitations. The offshoot from their entry in pre '78 being that they may also enter pre 75 to gain the extra ride.

On the other side of the coin, the post classic Nats offers unlimited growth potential due to the evolving upper cutoff limit. This year pre 85, next year pre '90 and pre 95 a few years down the track. Those changing upper limits bring with them a newer, younger rider demographic, ensuring our sports future.

The pre '75 Nats has no option for growth unless some serious culture change occurs and a new generation of racers opt to try the 'short travel' bikes. Including pre '78 allows small window of growth that otherwise wouldn't be there. There also needs to be some serious promotion into reviving pre '65 and pre '70 as the viable classes they once were.

Thankfully all is not lost for a sensible outcome. As one of the commissioners told me "Our comments are not set in concrete and are open for all to comment on. If there's enough comments from the states (in favour of pre '78) we will have no option but to relook at our decision It's now up to those who truly believe in the pre '78 cause to follow Colin Metchers lead and submit sensible and articulate support for a pre '78 split.

[Graham]

Wounder if much thought went into what happens when the nationals are run out side of WA, I think the club game enough to run up to pre 75 will have trouble breaking even, running cost viers entry's, they many have to find sponsor's to help with the costs, more pressure on the clubs.

[Brian Watson]

The VMX Club of WA has it hard worded into the Constitution that the membership is open to pre '75 bikes only...how else should the Club vote ...against the Constitution?....certainly not.... Last time I rode on a track that had "above 4 /7 " travel bikes competing also..discounting Broadford, Conondale, Coffs Harbour, Tassie... which by the way ...were all hard pack circuits....Home many of the forum members have ridden on a soft surface on a pre 75 bike that also has later travel bikes digging it up also.. Gets pretty rough pretty quickly...what happens then?...the guys who are riding and aren't ..shall we say in peak fitness.. say...well bugger this !!!...This is too tough for me...won't be back here again...!! Have to put forward a case for what your members have agreed to...

[Nathan S]

...how else should the Club vote ...against the Constitution?....certainly not....

This is a red-herring. The format of the National titles have very little overlap with the club's activities, and absolutely nothing to do with its constitution.

Last time I rode on a track that had "above 4 /7 " travel bikes competing also..discounting Broadford, Conondale, Coffs Harbour, Tassie...

So you're saying that every National title venue in the last four years has been suitable for newer bikes? But you're objecting to culling all but one-era-newer bikes from the Titles that you'd be interested in riding?

I'd also debate that Broadford's mud and loam could really be described as hard-pack.

Home many of the forum members have ridden on a soft surface on a pre 75 bike that also has later travel bikes digging it up also.. Gets pretty rough pretty quickly...what happens then?...the guys who are riding and aren't ..shall we say in peak fitness.. say...well bugger this !!!...This is too tough for me...won't be back here again...!!

Interesting argument.
Personally, I reckon its the speed of the bikes that chops up tracks, much moreso than the bikes themselves - so comparing the damage done to a track by a bunch of old blokes (on old bikes) with a modern meeting is irrelveant. Put those old blokes on not-quite so old old bikes and you'll see that they do the same amount of damage as they did on old bikes.

Again, those nasty newer bikes have been part of the last four VMX Nats, and haven't chopped up the track to any noticable extent. But getting rid of only two of those post-74 eras off the programme is unacceptable to the WA club?

Have to put forward a case for what your members have agreed to...

This, I agree with - although I'm wondering whether "We're about pre-75" has been confused with "Unless we stop this, then they'll come and take our houses"...


Its all a bit like being afraid of reds under the bed.

[Mike]

As Watto states VMXWA has in their constitution only pre 75.  This was voted by the members and it is the members who the club represents so naturally they will opt for pre 75 cutoff.  One of the main issues and reasons behind this is the fact that longer travel suspension (even up to 78) will cut up the Narrogin track and it is expensive in both dollar and volunteer time to repair, some would argue even impossible to repair the damage.  This is from past experience.  If this happens to the track it will be even more difficult to get pre 70 and pre 65 out there.  If VMXWA ever wanted to run a Nationals pre 75 is the ideal cutoff for their track and membership.  I only speak as an individual with a little insight into what VMXWA does, it does not suit everyone I agree, but for individuals on the forum to run down a club for following their constitution and representing their membership because an outcome went in the direction they proposed is a bit pathetic.  The club did whatever any other club/individual could have done. I'll never convince the pre 78 fraternity it is the right thing to do, but I did think it worth mentioning that it is considered and not just F#@$ off it's pre 75 only.

[Nathan S]

 One of the main issues and reasons behind this is the fact that longer travel suspension (even up to 78) will cut up the Narrogin track ....

Have you ever run pre-78 on that track? 

What you've stated directly contradicts what I've experienced.