EVO class

[firko]

Which of Mike Downeys Mugens had the LOP swingarm? That's the one I did the feature on.

[motomaniac]

Didn't Dave Simpson (Simo) win the series on a Montesa 360 VB hybrid thing one year? I remember Noel Clarke racing a really trick Mugen owned by Mike Downey. I went to a meeting billed as the ViperNats in what must have been '98/'99 at Broadford that was held on  dustbowl called the "Channel 10 Track". The meeting was canned after one race because of dangerous dust. Prior to the Vics running Evo they introduced the pre '80 class around '94/95, maybe earlier. I went to Ravo to race and they had a pre 90 class tacked onto the pre '75 meet. I think Peter Bowen won on a Magnum Maico.

Scotty Henshaw sure was fast too. I saw him hammer Jummy Ellis at one meeting down there and Ellis was on good equipment (I think it was an MX6 CanAm)while Scotty was on a pretty ordinary KX Kawasaki.
[/quote]

Yer I remember that Monty /HL500.It went like a rocket but didnt last the sesion from memory .That was around 01 .I turned up for my first VIPER race after helping my Brother for a few years and there was Simo and Ron Dinsdale tearing up Blue Rock on the Monties.Ron had a normal 360VB.Dave switched to an RM400 the year that I saw him win it .
Dont remember Scotties KX being too ordinary , we raced against that in 96 and its was fast ,looked quite stock but... even had well disguised Ohlins in the end  but mostly Scott was fast . I think my brother beat him once in 2 years on a muddy day at Colac.
Wish we still had Colac on the calendar.

[motomaniac]

Which of Mike Downeys Mugens had the LOP swingarm? That's the one I did the feature on.

That was the first one.The one that Noel rode in a deal with Mick and Tony from Retroracing. Thats the one that I think is now a door stop in somebodies NewYork appartment

[GMC]

The one bike which no-one objects to (here I go again) are those frickin HIDEOUS HL replica's which have nothing old on them except a fuel tank and engine, yet are evo legal. You can't buy a legit HL, so if you want one, (something I can't understand), you make one using all new the new shit you can get your hands on,

Been beaten by too many HL’s recently BigK
Original HL’s are around so I find it odd than you think a replica doesn’t cut it for the rules but you think any custom bike built from parts from any era is.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I agree the cut off can be frustrating at times, in that major parts must come from an original equipped Evo bike.
I bought wheels & forks from a 490 J for a project (don’t ask you wouldn’t like it ). I was under the impression that the J forks were the same as the H.
Research has shown that the upper triple clamp, fork inners and front and rear hubs and front backing plate are Evo legal, however the rear backing plate and fork outers & lower triple clamp aren’t Evo legal.
It’s a very fine line to draw but I do believe we need to draw a line somewhere.

As for using CR480 motors etc, you are right that they are old school aircooled engines but the Evo class is also about 78 models. Allowing bikes to be updated with the later open class engines can alienate the older bikes in the class. Whether they would be more competitive or not doesn’t come into it as much as the physiological advantage that may turn others away.
I would argue that if guys are holding back from riding the Nationals because they can’t use their specials then they are in Vintage racing for the wrong reasons.



I thought Evo was being used in Heaven & elsewhere long before Vic adopted it.
I think Vic was the odd one out there for a while by running Pre 80.

[bigk]

Yet to be beaten by one of those montrosities Geoff, maybe if there were some sheep on the tracks they would fair better being glorified farm bikes, and IMO the totally contradict the rules when you start with a new frame & swing arm (major components) built out of new steel and alloy, yet you can't use or modify 30 year old steel or alloy to build the other bike. I really shouldn't care as I ride bog stock Huskies well within the rules. However I personally believe that the rules are ambiguous at best, and open to protest no matter how trivial a matter by any disgruntled competitor. I doubt I will ever ride a national meeting as I couldn't cope with the BS of getting protested because of something stupid like a rubber handle bar mount let alone a part from an "out of era" model. I'm sure there are others who think the same, and it means less riders at national meetings. VIPER & VCM get upwards of 80 riders a meeting, all "in the spirit" and hell fun, but without the trivial eligibility BS, yet the nationals struggle to get decent numbers. Convince me it's not a factor.
On a different note, I'm sure spectators would love to see the trick factory replicas on the track, maybe there should be a stand alone class catering for works style bikes. It's been talked about before "EVO ultimate", if it's air cooled, drum brake, non linkage it's in. Bring on the RC, SR & OW replica's!

[GMC]

Plenty of new steel, alloy and plastic out there besides HL's.
Many old frames have been repaired with new steel too.
It's the new designs that are frowned upon

[JohnnyO]

Bengt Aberg certainly was an exceptional rider to win a GP on a farm bike.
I don't think there's anything wrong with the eligibility of a HL, it's a remade frame from the period just like remade pipes, shocks etc.
I think a lot of the reason for poor numbers at the Nats is the cost of entry on top of spending 3 days at the venue for a couple of 3 lap races per day. Certainly was a major factor for me not going.

[firko]

I believe HL replicas are as legitimate as any Metisse or Cheney replica so long as the components used are from within the era the bike is being raced. If I was to build an HL I'd be building it for the pre '78 class using 38mm forks and period pre '78 hubs and 9" travel shocks, similar to the bike Aberg rode.

As far as the "works replica" thing? Bring 'em on only if they're actually replicas. A CR450 engine in an RZ frame doesn't make an RC Brad Lackey replica, despite 'sorta, kinda' looking like one from 40 metres and nor does an HL with 43mm forks, TLS brake and 12"travel Ohlins make an Aberg replica.

[TM BILL]

[quote .
As far as the "works replica" thing? Bring 'em on only if they're actually replicas. A CR450 engine in an RZ frame doesn't make an RC Brad Lackey replica, despite 'sorta, kinda' looking like one from 40 metres and nor does an HL with 43mm forks, TLS brake and 12"travel Ohlins make an Aberg replica.
[/quote]

Well said Mark i think that sums up this replica buisness 

The original HL Abergs were a very cool bike  but a long way removed from the god awfull gangly creations people pass off as replicas these days  replicas of what  a school kids mechano project 
An HL built with new frame etc built to pre 78 specs would make a cool if not particulary competitive pre 78 open classer.

The RZ framed CR 480 should surley fit into EVO for all the reasons mentioned in the above postings  however to call it an RC replica is a bit laughable  The RCs of Lackey, Noyce and Mallherbe were true factory bikes built to win World championships. Im sorry but a few bits from the production parts bin does not make a factory replica  Nice bike ( and iv'e seen a couple ) and i believe Evo legal but no more a replica than a TM 250 with a fibre glass airbox is a replica of Joels bike 

[Marc.com]

[quote .
The original HL Abergs were a very cool bike  but a long way removed from the god awfull gangly creations people pass off as replicas these days  replicas of what  a school kids mechano project 

but no more a replica than a TM 250 with a fibre glass airbox is a replica of Joels bike 

Hell I resemble those remarks.  ..... its interesting in road racing, the replica Norton Supermonos are also kind of gangly mechano replicas, but they got the likes of Kevin Scwantz, Wayne Gardener and number of past greats out there and really lifted the profile of the sport and attendance to meetings. Now you have Patons, MVs, XR69 replicas taking it a step further.

Maybe we need more exotic replicas out there to stir up some interest. i would like to see a light weight RH250 frame replica for a start.

[All Things 414]

but a long way removed from the god awfull gangly creations people pass off as replicas these days  replicas of what  a school kids mechano project 

Not only do they look awfull but I think the riders are due some credit as I'm buggered if I know how anyone could get one around a corner without killing themselves!

[huskibul]

  Yeah bring on the RH replicas theres not enough of that stuff around, i'am thinking of building  my bits and pieces RM-A along those lines,the originals sure turned heads,very trick !  

[TM BILL]

[quote .
The original HL Abergs were a very cool bike  but a long way removed from the god awfull gangly creations people pass off as replicas these days  replicas of what  a school kids mechano project 

but no more a replica than a TM 250 with a fibre glass airbox is a replica of Joels bike 

Hell I resemble those remarks.  ..... its interesting in road racing, the replica Norton Supermonos are also kind of gangly mechano replicas, but they got the likes of Kevin Scwantz, Wayne Gardener and number of past greats out there and really lifted the profile of the sport and attendance to meetings. Now you have Patons, MVs, XR69 replicas taking it a step further.

Maybe we need more exotic replicas out there to stir up some interest. i would like to see a light weight RH250 frame replica for a start.

Shit that sounds like a pop at you Marc  not the case or anyone in particular just an opinion 

A lightweight RH /RN frame to accept a TM motor would be great  Are you there Geoff 

[Marc.com]

Shit that sounds like a pop at you Marc  not the case or anyone in particular just an opinion 

A lightweight RH /RN frame to accept a TM motor would be great  Are you there Geoff 
[/quote]


Don't worry Bill I didn't think you were having a go  . Yeah we have been kicking round the idea of light weight RH rep frame for TM250/400 for a while.

OR I have often thought of the motors you could slip into a GMC CZ frame. Whose first to do a light TM400 Falta.

[GMC]

If I was to build an HL I'd be building it for the pre '78 class using 38mm forks and period pre '78 hubs and 9" travel shocks, similar to the bike Aberg rode.

Yeah, I’ve changed my mind since I bought those J parts, I’m now going to build mine for pre 78, I just need to find some D model forks and triples.
The fact that some fit later stuff and choose to ride Evo is their choice, everybody wants to build the hot-rod of their visions.

I was speaking to the guy from Falcon shocks many years back and he told me the original length of the shocks was 15 ¼”
Apparently he supplied shocks for the UK built bikes.
Not long after I was speaking to Cramer for a quote on Ohlins, when I asked for 15 ¼” shocks for a HL he told me they were the wrong length and not to listen to the guy making those frames as he doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
He went real quiet when I told him who I was .
The Pro Fab frames in the states sometimes had 2 shock mounts and I think the longer shocks needed for the rear mounts gets quoted for all models.
I have seen some with 17” shocks and they do seem to tall for my liking.
Tony McMahon’s bike also had 17” shocks, but then he is quite tall as well.

A lightweight RH /RN frame to accept a TM motor would be great  Are you there Geoff 

Too many projects, not enough time
But if you can drop a RH frame over i will have a look at it.

One thing that makes the HL's popular is the ease of finding parts to complete the package.

I reckon a RH frame would really need a RH motor as well