EVO class

[BAHNZY]

Rossvickicampbell asked a simple question and that where it should have ended, with a simple answer.
If anyone is interested in off-line discussion, please send me a message (or) if you will be @ CD7 then we could discuss over a beer or 10  

To answer that last 2 questions;
Where has there been a problem that you have come across?
eg: CR450 - RM465/500 forks and clamps fitted to a eg; 1980 CR250 79/80 RM400's. They are out there if you look.
Individuals assume that because they are drum braked and conventional, then they are o/k, however they came from a bike that was not an OEM EVO bike within the definition of the GCR's.
The crazy thing is that a YZ465 front end which is all but identical in construction is o/k.
Personally i dont care, but the GCR's are the GCR's.


Do you you have a condensed solution?
Kinda, but at the moment this is not the place nor the time to discuss given the current process that MA Classic Commission is going through.

[JohnnyO]

point being is that I don't think that a '78 model Cr250 is remotely competetive against a '84 model Husky 250

You're kidding aren't you?? The Evo class is full of '78 '79 hondas and barely a Husky in there.
If the Husky was such a good bike the class would be full of them.
Truth is the '78 honda was ahead of it's time and the '84 husky was a lemon in it's day and the performance difference between the 2 is not that much.
All the different makes of bikes in the Evo class are fairly close in performance and that's largely the reason the class is so successfull with a big variety of competitive bikes.

[SAABCOMBI]

talking about single shock bike, l know a bike that is sitting a shed, and l have known of this bike for about 14 years,  the manufacturing date is on the head stem and it is in large print
1979, moto villa 250 single shock, only 2 came into the country in that era.

[090]

To answer that last 2 questions;
Where has there been a problem that you have come across?
eg: CR450 - RM465/500 forks and clamps fitted to a eg; 1980 CR250 79/80 RM400's. They are out there if you look.
Individuals assume that because they are drum braked and conventional, then they are o/k, however they came from a bike that was not an OEM EVO bike within the definition of the GCR's.
The crazy thing is that a YZ465 front end which is all but identical in construction is o/k.
Personally i dont care, but the GCR's are the GCR's.

I wouldn't think that is an issue with the rules. That's a matter of thinking they can get away with it as its a smaller demeanour seeing as it still looks right. 

[Nathan S]

Brad, the point is that there ARE grey areas in the rules. It doesn't matter if 99 riders out of 100 interpret the rules in one particular way - if one rider interprets them differently and cannot be proven wrong, then we have a problem.

Stuff like the 'drum brake forks from a non-Evo bike' is probably the most obvious example. I know that my interpretation was more restrictive than most people's interpretation - but I can't prove them wrong either...(and it doesn't matter that much to me either).

[090]

Yeah, I don't think anyone thinks that the rules as they stand aren't flawed. I also personally think, that as it already has happened, these areas will be addressed at ground zero( at scrutineering) as time goes by. Having a legal bike is becoming more of an issue and so it should. That's what era racing is all about ( even though there are flaws in that if you look hard enough and if you WANT there to be).

interpretation

= what can I get away with.

We can't get away with much up here anyway, with the Nazi's we have aka Mr Bamford and master Vandy! 
I think that no matter how tight the rules are written, there will always be a minority that will try and get around/ blatantly cheat and think that they are clever by doing so. As humans are fundamentally flawed, unlike me, myself and I . Got to go , myself wants a turn on the computer....

[Nathan S]

interpretation

= what can I get away with.

I know you're at least partly tounge-in-heek, but its been said many times on this forum and I actually think this is a really dangerous attitude.
The idea that anyone who's understanding of the rules is different to yours is a cheat (or a rule bender, at the least), is hardly going to encourage sensible discussion...

[090]

Hmmm.
cr250 rz with cr450 forks...no for me. Or any other specific bikes with pre 85 front ends .
2010 ct110 .... no for me (and you would be a dick head for turning up with it imo and honestly, who would?)
Brand new Maico 490... yes for me . The new ones for sale in the UK aren't right as they need to have the correct motor over here ( they use an '83 motor), so with the correct motor, yes.
'84 Husky twin shock...yes and I think its a given but I can't think of many more scenarios that would be an issue.
China bike...no on principle and good taste. It wouldn't get past a scrutineer and I for one would chastise a guy that even tried to ride one at a vmx meet.
What else is there?
 

[vandy010]

We can't get away with much up here anyway, with the Nazi's we have aka Mr Bamford and master Vandy! 

kind of like the two Michaels
that amazing comical group from the 70's...
i've only just skimmed through this thread but it's an unfortunate fact that newcomers to our sport hear/read all this whats right and whats wrong stuff and it scares them away from our sport.
being a scrutineer can be tricky as people think your supposed to know it all.
my motto is to get the bikes on the track.
if it's not right/legal or whatever, it'll all get sorted in the wash.
i'm more concerned about handlebar plugs and the like...
{although the paperwork side of things takes up more time anyway}
it's all good.

[Bamford#69]

Hi, Michael,
It's always nice to see the work of the scrutineers recognised, , we are always amazed at the excuses the riders can come up with when we show them their leaking fuel tank or cracked frame ,
see you Sunday

[Tossa]

 i understand the EVO class, but I can't understand why we have it.  based on back in the day the YZ,RM, KX,CR etc raced against each other no matter what they were.  If you were able to do a modification then, it was good luck to you..   As long as the mods are in line with the era what';s the problem.

Only an opinion and not one to say get rid of EVO, just confused got up this morning and the wife offered me sex, been walking round in a daze since!!!!

[YZ250H]

kind of like the two Michaels

Is that like the 2 Ronnies only not as funny 

[evo550]

i understand the EVO class, but I can't understand why we have it.  based on back in the day the YZ,RM, KX,CR etc raced against each other no matter what they were.  If you were able to do a modification then, it was good luck to you..   As long as the mods are in line with the era what';s the problem.

Only an opinion and not one to say get rid of EVO, just confused got up this morning and the wife offered me sex, been walking round in a daze since!!!!

Tossa,
The evo class was introduced years ago, before pre 78, before pre '85 and pre '90 as a class for people with bikes older than pre '75.
I could only assume that at the time it would have been considered the last class to be introduced to vintage.
It's very easy today to say, "they should have done this" or "they should have done that" but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[mainline]

interpretation

= what can I get away with.

We can't get away with much up here anyway, with the Nazi's we have aka Mr Bamford and master Vandy! 
I think that no matter how tight the rules are written, there will always be a minority that will try and get around/ blatantly cheat and think that they are clever by doing so. As humans are fundamentally flawed, unlike me, myself and I . Got to go , myself wants a turn on the computer....
[/quote]

Unfortunately I can attest to Vandy's eye for detail. At last years Classic Dirt (a non-competitive event!) he scoured the grounds until he found an expert, then dragged him back to where myself, Hilly, and the Human Water-diviner were stationed. While we were busy trying to fashion a replica DG muffler out of an old sausage, Vandy had the aforementioned expert point out that I was using a non-oem clutch gasket on my YZ125. Hilly and the other one can verify I speaketh the truth.

[bigk]

Evo is pretty good just as it is, and I love riding Evo class, however a bit of common sense should prevail. If it's air cooled, drum brake, non linkage, it should be OK. Who cares and what performance advantage would a set of 43mm CR480 or YZ490J forks have over a set of YZ465H forks? None, but the rules count the first two out as they are from a single shock bike. You would see a lot more bikes on the track if the basic rules were adhered to without being under the microscope. Here's a common scenario I would imagine: I want to race my CR250 RZ, but the forks are bent and rusty. To have them repaired costs time & money at about $500, but I'm on a budget. The local wreckers has a really good CR480 front end complete with wheel for $250, fantastic! Oops can't use that because it'll put me in the pre '85 class as they are from a single shock bike and someone is sure to complain, especially if I beat them and I'll be called a cheat if I use them in Evo. Even though he came 9th and I came third, it must have been the forks, not my better riding skills. Oh well can't afford and don't particularly want to spend $500 on the rusty old forks, leave the bike in the shed and go fishing instead. Same old story with guys who want to build a big bore Honda Evo bike, OK to use an '84 Husky CR500 engine but not an '82 CR480 engine. Seriously what's the difference other than giving a rule racer some grounds for a protest?
K