$3500 top end overhaul

[mx250]

Now THERES a thought... We may be the last generation able to 'restore' our old dirtbikes (or roadbikes). Imagine in 20 years, first finding a YZLX450F that isn't blown up. Then, imagine trying to find the bits to do a bit of a basic tidy up. On a 1978 YZ250, it's a few bearings and seals, a piston kit and rod kit, and maybe wheel/swingarm bearings. Then some fiddling around trying to find plastics and so on. But in 20 years time, all the bikes will be electric, and no-one, but no-one, will be storing the parts for our YZLX450F. And imagine how many parts you might need for a liquid cooled hi-tech 4-stroke with all sorts of doodads and gimickery and electric start and EFI and contorted exhaust systems and complex wiring harnesses and programmable ignitions and....

Not only will there be lots of parts but a lot of them will be 'model specific' and, although similar, will not easily interchange.

The major players have been doing it for the past 20 years. It's a tactic to keep their replacement parts market. If a part interchanges for several year models the volume makes it viable for the aftermarket to move in (the best/worst example would be VW bettle and Harley) . And since car and bike manufacture make their money at the parts counter this ain't gunna happen.

[Lozza]

Here's a thought! Long after all the current forum contributors are dead and gone,  I presume and hope OZVMX, VMX Mag and the whole vintage scene is still going strong.Do you think people will be restoring and racing the current crop of bikes? Lets say 40 years time! Will you be able to source the multitude and complexity of parts required. I stay awake at night worrying about this sort of stuff!!! Jerry

Probably yes, right now I can 3D scan any item or draw it in Solidworks and have a replica rapid proto-typed(for casting ) or CNC machined right  before your eyes. Make an IGES./STL file and email to a factory in China and they get back to me with a price for a 100 or 1000 min order.This type of thing will only get cheaper and more accessable in the future

[jerry]

Not only all of the above but I don't believe people in the future (Generation XYZ... or whatever their called) will give a rats fat clacker about any history of the sport because unless they do a radical turn around in their mindset they will continue to be self absorbed, self serving, instantly gratifying, throw away consumers! Sorry Im having a rant. Its hot and humid here in Melbourne maybe I should go and lie down....

[Colin Jay]

I know in the automotive industry NOS parts now get destroyed as a tax write-off instead of distibuting to the dealers and sitting on the "shelves" plus the cost of transporting the stuff.

This is not anything new, I know an old guy who worked for Carcycle (Honda car and bike dealers) in Adelaide in the 1960 - 70's. He has told me about loading trucks with new parts during the 70's, that were then taken to Wingfield tip where they were dumped and driven over / ripped into the ground by the bulldozers in front of the tax inspectors. All as a tax right off for the company.

CJ

[All Things 414]

It's all ying and yang. If you want to ride something as dull as Grandpa's war stories then get a DR, XR or any other four stroke trialie and you too can enjoy years of trouble free yawn.
Yeah, yeah. I can just hear someone out there who's mates XR 250 has had so much work done to it that it'll eat a CR 500 but then you're heading down the path of these new-age 4t motocrosser's.
Optimum power comes at the expense of reliability. Simple.

[mx250]

It's all ying and yang. If you want to ride something as dull as Grandpa's war stories then get a DR, XR or any other four stroke trialie and you too can enjoy years of trouble free yawn.
Yeah, yeah. I can just hear someone out there who's mates XR 250 has had so much work done to it that it'll eat a CR 500 but then you're heading down the path of these new-age 4t motocrosser's.
Optimum power comes at the expense of reliability. Simple.

Not that simple Ross, there is a degree of luck and a degree of been manipulated and taken advantage of.

But you's pay ya money and ya take ya chances.

[Marc.com]

Japanese tax law allows for a one time deducation and physical scrapping at full value , an annual depreciation down to 1 dollar value is not accepted, parts are always held at full cost, so there is a very strong incentive to scrap.

Definitely our business is about selling the product at break even and making the money on after sales. When we plan a product we factor in its yield over its lifecycle. Clearly our friends producing MX bikes across town are doing the same, bet they even figured out that the lifetime yield on a 350 is better than a 450 and lobbied the AMA accordingly.

[jerry]

I've just had a snooze and now I'm happier. Two things. Firstly I apologize for steering the thread down another track. That was rude and I apologise. Secondly the performance of the NEW era of bikes is as we know outstanding and you have to pay the dollars for ongoing happiness but is it not like a drug of addiction. You have a little taste and then your hooked and you have to pay any price to keep the euphoria going and hey maybe the manufacturers (dealers) have been onto that for a long time.

[All Things 414]

Not that simple Ross, there is a degree of luck and a degree of been manipulated and taken advantage of.

Oh so it's a conspiracy now is it Graeme. Big Brother and all that. 

It was mentioned on here earlier. Most race bikes are meticulously maintained. Most 'playbikes' have the shit hammered out of them, aren't maintained and then fail. My old CRF was sold at 40 hrs, raced by an A grade 16 yr old for the next 120 hrs and never failed once (even though they're barstards on valves). Not once. Because every monday night it was stripped down to whatever degree it had to be and serviced by the book.
That's the difference.....

[mx250]

Oh so it's a conspiracy now is it Graeme. Big Brother and all that. 

No tin foil hats Ross, just read Marc comments.

There no one cause just the confluences of several causes - just that the manufacturers are in it for profit and are major players and can manipulate the market demand to a fair degree.

[Nathan S]

Now THERES a thought... We may be the last generation able to 'restore' our old dirtbikes (or roadbikes). Imagine in 20 years, first finding a YZLX450F that isn't blown up. Then, imagine trying to find the bits to do a bit of a basic tidy up.

I reckon that this scenario will prove to be wide of the mark.

Imagine standing around a new 120Y in 1974, or a DT1 in 1969 - bet you'd quickly decide that it would be impossible to restore/maintain one in 2010 - and the arguments would be very similar to the ones being presented here.

Today's 'specialised technology' is tomorow's mainstream.

Stuff like EFI is a great example - I own one of the first widely available EFI cars (1972 Volvo 164E) and despite the horror stories that were still alive and kicking into the 1990s, the EFI is actually bloody reliable, and new & used parts are still readily available.
The absolute worst case scenario is to buy a cheap aftermarket ECU, modern injectors, etc and fit that. Its not hard, it would increase performance & fuel economy, would not appear out of place, and (with some careful shopping) could easily be done for under $1000 all up (priced a rebuilt SU lately?).

Similarly, look at the number of options to replaced toasted old bike CDIs.

What was once 'exotic' technology, quickly becomes well understood, supported and within reach of Joe Average.

And that's even before you explore the issues Lozza has raised, where fabrication is now easier than ever.
Remember that 15 years ago, a MIG welder was considered exotic.
Similar story for TIG welders, CNC lathes/mills, CD burners, etc etc etc.

[All Things 414]

No tin foil hats Ross, just read Marc comments.

Sorry. Don't see what that has to do with the reliability of 4T motocrossers?

Oh! The picture of the blown motor. Oh well. We've all got one of them......

[jerry]

Spot on MX250 my point exactly. These blokes have had us all on a drip feed for years especially the young blokes. Have you read any of the new dirt bike rags lately. After buying the latest YZCRKTMRZ thingo they then specify a list of all the mods you need to do to make yours a race winning bike and they finish it off with get this an updated graphics kit for another $100 bucks or so and expect you to take them seriously!

[jerry]

YOU OWN A VOLVO!!!!! WHAT THE?

[Nathan S]

Maintainence and reliabilty are not the same thing, even though there's obviously plenty of over-lap.

There's zero doubt that proper maintainence will extend the life of any mechanical thing.
And there's no doubt that insufficent/poor maintainence will increase the chances of something going boom.

But the amount maintainence required to ensure that a modern 4-stroke MX/enduro bike won't blow up, is far beyond what most punters are happy to accept. Similarly, their failure rate is still quite high, even when maintained correctly (like Tony's mate).

Jerry, seen my avatar?