$3500 top end overhaul

[Marc.com]

The magazines sell advertising and they will push the sponsors product shamelessly ( apart from VMX) so there is always a list of 'recomended modifications'.

Companies sell spare parts and bikes and pay people to work out the maximum profit from a combination of both. If you think the 4 strokes are more expensive to run, bet the factories knew that a long time ago, they had MotoGP experience after all,  and extensively to have the cheaper lower profit technology banned. I would.

[jerry]

I agree completely Nathan. Also sorry about the Volvo dig. Do you wear a hat when you drive it? Wots an avatar? Jerry

[mx250]

No tin foil hats Ross, just read Marc comments.

Sorry. Don't see what that has to do with the reliability of 4T motocrossers?

That was referring to the conspiracy theory you referred to.

Oh! The picture of the blown motor. Oh well. We've all got one of them......

[/color]

I didn't think the discussion was about 2T being more or less reliable than 4T - I thought it was about the undue expense of fixing a modern 4T. Your case in point; that's a $1000 fix and the engine will be as good as 'factory fresh'. Do that to a modern 4T and it will be a $4-5000 repair and it still won't be 'factory fresh' (reusing cam chains, not replacing cam sprocket etc or not doing the bottom end).

[mx250]

Wots an avatar? Jerry

Don't ask; enough to say he keeps it with his etchings .

[mx250]

Imagine standing around a new 120Y in 1974, or a DT1 in 1969 - bet you'd quickly decide that it would be impossible to restore/maintain one in 2010 - and the arguments would be very similar to the ones being presented here.

Probably not a good example - even back then we knew they were simple and would last forever .

A better example would the the Fond of Whores (A.K.A. Honda Four). I do remember having old bikies standing around saying, "four Cylinders, OH cam, disc brake - you'll be sorry when you have to work on them". We would look back at them with the blank confused look of youth and say "Work on them? Whatcha mean?" (Actually they were fairly easy to work on - even mugs like me could pull them apart to oversize them etc etc. )

[All Things 414]

OK. How many people here can put their right hand in the air and swear on all things sacred that they've had to shell out 4G + for a 4T engine rebuild. What? Nobody. Oh it happened to a mate of yours or a freind of your sister's or.......

[Davey Crocket]

Me  SMR Shit a crank, , crank was $1500, piston and rings $700, then theres valve job, cam chain, gasket set, bla bla bla. Brothers 650 berger  shit itself.....$3500 easy, mate I raced super motard with, his YZF450 throw a rod out the front,even dented the frame, only thing salvageable was some gears and the clutch . He worked for a Yamaha Dealer and it still cost him over 4 grand, awesome bikes to ride but it comes at a cost!!!

[tony27]

I swept rode an enduro a couple of years ago where the drain plug got knocked out of a wr250f letting the oil escape, the owner worked in the parts department of the yamaha dealer & wouldn't admit what it cost to replace everything other than the gearbox, clutch & cases as that was all that was salvagable. Next year they were back on a 2stroke
I would have to say have a look at the piston in the cutaway yzf450 to see why they need replacing so often, little more than a washer with enough space to hold the rings & connect to the crank. Not something you can do with a 2stroke due to needing to cover up ports

[David Lahey]

Nathan I ride with a father and son  who successfully rallied Volvos that looked like yours. Dad at time was 50 and navigated while son of 20 drove (very very well).
People only laughed till the Volvo thrashed them. Can't tell if you avatar picture is from a motorkhana or rally

[David Lahey]

A friend of mine rides a modern "Montesa" (Honda) trials bike that uses a modified version of the CRF250 motor
He crashed in a creek and bent the conrod - $4000 to fix

The standard quoted engine repair cost for modern 4 strokes like Yamaha and KTM enduro bikes that see decent mileage is $1 per KM. A mate of mine learned this and decided against the GasGas 4 stroke enduro bike he originally wanted and bought a KTM300 two-stroke (electric start).

[jimg1au]

this four stroke rebuild story goes back a whle late 90s.i bought a gpz900r from the mechanic from on two wheels campbelltown about 12 years ago it was a fun bike to ride(kawka in top gun) he needed 3200.00 the fix his euro 4t race bike.thats what i got it for.had ir for 5 years and sold it for 2800.00.it was in top condition as well.
i also belive rebuilding J.A.P. 4t speedway engines is not a chep process.
tt500 yamaha motors with short strok crank and corrillo rods 90mm+ bores will set you back about 4500-5000 dollors,that is total hot rebuild not much yamaha left inside.
dont know the cost of pre1960 british 4ts built to run on methenol but it wont be cheap either,but i am going to find out with my methenol burning ariel 350 ex art senior bike
cheers
jim

[VMX247]

Quote:colj500 I think there could be something the way the bikes are ridden and the maintenance level applied in each case, i.e. the racers look after their bikes while riding and maintain them properly, changing air filters every fuel stop in the reliability trials and fully servicing them after every event, whereas the "play racers" flog them when riding and in general neglect them /ride them until they die, and might only clean the air filter and change the oil when their is nothing better to do.

Good topic & totally agree on the above quote,our son rode CRF250 07 4stroke all last year and we averaged about $300 per ride this includes chain/sprockets etc.This year it will be 2 strokes(let you know how it goes later). 
I will never understand how a rider doesn't maintain there bike properly, as we have continued to help people all 09/2010 with new bikes needing rebuilds with a dusted motors ,the riders are not taught how to clean a air filter or apply them (money to be made there). !
 forgot Id rather pay the $300 than the $3500   

I believe its a throw away society and we as VMX'ers will be are rare or extinct species.
cheers

[Marc.com]

I know a 'made'  rider who also mentioned the somewhat frightening costs of a running a 4 stroke even at very favourable parts pricing, so much that practice was done on a 2 stroke. We would assume given a full time mechanic it was not a maintenance issue.

Based on what I have seen, bet Bubba and Chad have a fairly full skip of motors by the end of the season.

I mean it is comparable with stories from MotoGP and Superbikes, of riders running out of engines during practice, all good fun if you are not paying for it yourself.

[frostype400]

I think to many young guys are to spoilt with new bikes that mummy and daddy pay for how do you learn to work hard for your possesions when you are given everything and expect the world given to you.

I am much happier knowing that the old bikes in my shed are mine I would prefer to have no bike then have one given to me if I wanted a new bike I would save myself and go get one and I could but don't want to I just like my old bikes.

Who's going to want to do up a WR450f or alike in 20 years time not many guys at all especially when they are having troubles now when they are only a year or two old.

[VMX247]

one given to me if I wanted a new bike I would save myself and go get one and I could but don't want to I just like my old bikes.

Another good thread starter there  frosty-how many of you paid for your first own bike?
I reckon people make it hard for themselves as well,they come into vmx/mx guns blazing or is that blazing guns    spend the odd 20k and bail out the next year,all too expensive sport.  
geez glad we only had one kid    
oh well, back to the 2T & 4T debate.