Author Topic: Swing arm elegibility pre 78  (Read 10080 times)

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Offline GMC

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Re: Swing arm elegibility pre 78
« Reply #30 on: October 24, 2008, 07:54:35 pm »
The classes are meant to group together models that are similar, not neccessarily models that are absolutely equal.
Allowing some 78's in because they are technically similar may disenchant some 75 or 76 owners.

I find this debate amusing because Nick Smith took his 77 CR 125 to an Aussie title win in Tassie in the 125 Evo class, ignoring the fact that his bike wouldn't be competitive with the later models. Then I read here that someone wanted to ban the older bikes from Evo as they weren't giving the newer models a decent go. ???
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Offline Maicojames

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Re: Swing arm elegibility pre 78
« Reply #31 on: October 25, 2008, 01:22:09 pm »
Geoff, clearly I did not spend enough space clarifying that riders can win against newer bikes...Kevin Windham had a go on a 77 Maico and went better than the others on their moderns. I rode a practice day a few years back at a local modern track-a very SX type at that-and went well on my old 77 Maico( not due to my skill, which is zero-but familiarity with the bike)....in early 90s Joe Busby here in Tx won a vet race on his 72 400SB.

On the right track, the right rider will prevail, we should all be aware of the 90% rider 10% bike saying. That said, I am confident my old 77 Maico -on a rough track would hammer through the rough line that has a 75 Bultaco, Monty VA, or 76 CR 250 for example kicking the rider off. So, I agree that almost all 75 bikes-and many 76 bikes would have riders disenchanted-they already should be. They already don't have a class.
 
 A NW US group had proposed a "Trans-Am" class for these 75 ( and select 76) bikes.  Most of the 75 bikes are at a techincal disadvantage to the top 77 bikes now.
   What I am saying is that the 78 KX 125, and 250-78 YZ125, 250, and 400, 78 RM 125, and 250( if not also the 78 RM400) are so technically similar to their 77 counterparts they present no technical adavantage. While it is the rider, I -if riding say a 76-77 KTM, 76-77 RM, 76-77 YZ, 76-77 Bultaco, 77-78 Monty VB, or 76-77 Maico AW am not intimidated by a 78 KX, RM or YZ on the line...and right now these 78 YZs in particular are comparatively cheap-meaning a few more blokes even with less $ could participate and grow this class. Here in the US, it needs more participation.
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Re: Swing arm elegibility pre 78
« Reply #32 on: October 27, 2008, 03:15:34 am »
okay, sorry to cut you short guys but getting back to the subject at hand which is the eligibility of the alloy arms for pre'78.
John, had a little hunt around of late and Dodgee agree's (in theory at least :P) 'Supposedly' the way to decipher between the B model optional swingarm and the C swingarm is brake stay mount is welded on the underside. The B didn't have the floating brake setup hence the brake stay mounts under the swingarm same as the steel jobs. Mine has no mounts so it's the C item I guess but I know for a fact my RM400C came standard with these mounts on the underside and so did a new replacement arm I purchased back in the day and another 250C arm I found a couple of years back. I never did understand why till just now when it dawned on me 30 years after the fact! :o All this to me says the 250B/370B had the alloy option in 1977 also. In theory it should make the aluminium 250/400C arms legal for pre'78 as well. I can take a photo of this brake stay mount which 'theoretically' (gotta love that word!) proves these arms were made to suit '77 models ;) contentious to the hilt but I reckon it'd be pretty crook if these arms are not allowed with the information and documentation now at hand proving their existance in and for the specified era.

eeerrr, another 2 pittance worth, I'd also be of the reckoning if the arms are legal then the C is definate flow on model and could rightfully run with the pre'78 as could the YZ's ;) sorry, back to you GMC and Maicojames :)
« Last Edit: October 27, 2008, 03:27:54 am by Doc »

Offline GMC

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Re: Swing arm elegibility pre 78
« Reply #33 on: October 27, 2008, 08:14:09 am »
I think James & I are agreeing. Everyone usually recognises that the rider is the most important part of the combo but suffers psychological defeat if they think other bikes appear better. I think if being on the cutting edge of technolgy for your class means that much then racing VMX may not be for you.

Interesting deductions Doc, if you want this changed you should document all your info including part No's etc & submit something to M.A.
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Offline asasin

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Re: Swing arm elegibility pre 78
« Reply #34 on: October 27, 2008, 06:04:42 pm »
Thanks Doc , that pretty much confirms what I thought , the arm tag is only on the "B " model bikes optional swing arm ( which is what I have ) . Now all I have to do is get somone to put it in writing.I have had no response yet but will keep trying. I have another arm(Steel) that has had the mounts move d back to alllow longer shocks to work properly on it so if I am stiffled with this alloy one I will take to that one with the Drill!!!
 Cheers
John 
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Doc

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Re: Swing arm elegibility pre 78
« Reply #35 on: October 29, 2008, 04:55:23 pm »
Geoff, John has actually put the question to MA in regards to this swingarm eligabilty. I'm just doing a little ground work as I agree 100% it should be legal. I had a C model and I went and chased up an A frame and swingarm and fitted my C engine and all the other bits into that and instantly I go pre'78 legal so what's the difference if I used a 125C in it's entirety? It's simply not allowed as the C is classified Evo yet every part of the 125C excepting this contentious swingarm and plastic tank is perfectly legal to use on a pre'78 race bike. Seems a little hypocritical to me. If needed, I'll help push the barrow on this one but I'm opting away from organized events so I really don't have a say in the matter and should butt out ;)

Offline asasin

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Re: Swing arm elegibility pre 78
« Reply #36 on: October 29, 2008, 07:00:41 pm »
Hi Doc , I have herd nothing form the contact you gave me , I do not have one of your rule books , can you or someone give me the contact at MA directly so i can start the paper trail
Cheers
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Offline asasin

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Re: Swing arm elegibility pre 78
« Reply #37 on: November 10, 2008, 06:33:09 pm »
I have just brought 3 rm 125 c models and none have the brake tag on them, doc can you scan and email me the parts book entry re optional extras.Im going to try it for the nats i think the case is strong and it sounds like it is up to the scruteneer on the day cheers john
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Doc

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Re: Swing arm elegibility pre 78
« Reply #38 on: November 10, 2008, 07:27:00 pm »
no problems john I'll scan it a little later. I cannot possibly see how it can be knocked back so long as the tab is either there to start with or welded there later. It makes no difference if it is a C arm or the genuine optional B arm as either way one is a replica of the other. Toss the floating brake and there is no contest when this item was genuinely available in the era. I would have though Mr D Tanner would have given a green or red on this one :-\   

Offline asasin

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Re: Swing arm elegibility pre 78
« Reply #39 on: December 04, 2008, 07:42:51 pm »
I have managed to track down (by shear fluke) my old Rm B ,or whats left of it . and it definatly proves beyond doubt that the pre 78 swing arm that must be legal for this class is the one with the tag for the brake arm ,oh and paint it black!
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