So…..Why are you NOT racing???

[Rossvickicampbell]

sorry KTM - are you advocating moderns as well as Vintage - don't think that is working real well here in the west where the guys just see it as another modern meet and hardly any vintage turn up? For a Classic club trying to get numbers up.

[Tony Two Times]

New to the game which may not make my opinion worth much, but for what it's worth.........

I believe the V in VMX is currently about the bike, not the rider (i.e. bike age, not rider age, as evidenced by the basic classes).

MMX (M = Masters) may be a different gig that doesn't exist yet (rider age, not bike age).

Maybe there should be both?

But other sports do it both at once. How?

For example...........

Sailboats run a number of classes in the same race. Any lessons there?

Cycling run age events. Equipment age and quality is largely secondary. Are we closer to that model than the current one?

But most importantly, what is the sports primary objective?

Old blokes on old bikes, anyone on old bikes, old blokes on any bike?

Given that as we get older the rider is the limiting factor for most of us mug punters. So I think the last one has merit. That would make it MMX.

How do you get from here to there, assuming you want to?

Run a one off event purely rider age/capacity based and see how popular it is. Say 40-50 age group and over 50 age group. 125/250/250+ classes.

In terms of bike run what you brung as this new setup is primarily about riders age not bike age, but make say two model cut-offs at say 1980 and 1990 if you want.

Combine some or all of the above and award prizes to the winner in each category.

MA/local club can't cater for that? Get a bunch of mates and go to QMP and do it informally for a one off and see what happens?

Of course everything seems simple to the new guy so I'm happy to have those opinions tempered by the stuff I don't know casue I just got here :-)

Tony

Tony

[Nathan S]

I took ktm47's comment to be about running events primarily for old(er) riders, rather than being about vintage meetings.

Personally, I'm not racing because there's nothing on!

[KTM47]

I was just saying what had worked in Qld previously.  Unfortunately while it would be nice to recognise age of the rider in Vintage MX in some respects the numbers just don't warrant it and you will still be racing against the younger riders anyway.  There isn't room for a separate classes.  However QVMX may try an over 45s unlimited class according to the AGM minutes. Even this isn't that great.  Most riders who raced when younger are still reasonably fast when they are in the 45 to 55 age range, its just when you get older it gets harder, especially if you aren't riding all the time.

Really I have never had a problem with the younger riders, sometimes it is the older ones that are the most dangerous (myself included).

At the height of the ThunderX series (which included a EVO and Pre 85 class) most older guys myself included rode the Vintage class and the Veterans class on the same bike.  This was against modern bikes as well.  It was common for the leader into the first corner of the over 40s to be a 490 Maico.

The biggest thing was the tracks.  They were on what we called Natural Terrain but always Conondale type tracks.

Of course the Thumper Nats series was so popular because it catered for the Veterans and it was destroyed by letting the Pros take over.

[HVA61]

Personally, I'm not racing because there's nothing on! 


Me too , but that's about to change

[skypig]

The bike age/style confusion is partly my fault (mixing VMX with Moderns and even constantly mentioning SM....)

The concept is the same: 30+ years past your fastest is a bigger deal than 20mm of extra suspension travel, or racing last years model.

I'm not a smart man, I'll line up next to 19 yo's if I have too (knowing I have no chance, knowing the 19 yo isn't thinking about his mortgage/employment/hospital costs).

The bottom line: The more opportunity to race folks CLOSER to my age (VMX, Modern, or Supermoto.), the more racing I'll do.

PS

Racing a modern bike is cheaper than VMX if you buy a bike 5 or 6 years old.
I was offered $2000 trade in on my immaculate (12 recorded oil changes. 25hrs gentle use) 2008 YZ250f with all the fruit, on a new 2014 model in 2014.
I've seen brand new 250f's for sale for $7k (with a free pit tent!)
Mtce costs are oil and filters (and tires) for a few seasons racing.

I'm looking for a YZ465H, and people are asking $6K. Plus there is a big risk something expensive will let go at some stage.... Just saying.

[FourstrokeForever]

If you want to race modern bikes, that's fine but I can't see how VMX bikes can mix with moderns at the same meeting. Isn't VMX about riding/racing vintage bikes?

VCM here in Victoria run a race program that caters for Pre75 all the way to Evo and it is a full day of racing. They do include mini's and pit bikes to boost the days overall numbers in an effort to manage costs and at some meetings, the pit bikes out number all classes which is what I fear would happen if moderns were allowed to be in the program. There is only 1 age group which is an over 50's class and gets reasonable numbers. VCM also trialed a Pre85 class at the last round of the series. I wasn't there so I can't comment on numbers but they may be included in the program this year.

I hope Pre85 doesn't happen as it makes riding the Pre78 and Pre75 bikes (which is what I like to ride), so much harder with the acceleration and braking bumps. This wouldn't be so bad if ALL the tracks were flowing natural terrain rather than the stop nature of jump tracks.

Just my thoughts.....If ALL vintage meetings were held on ALL natural terrain tracks, I think more people with old bikes would attend races. We don't bounce as well as we did when we were in our prime and the earlier bikes aren't conducive to negotiating double jumps and big table tops. Get the jump wrong and usually something on the bike (or body) breaks.....

[Nathan S]

I think skypig hit a very important point: VMX is more expensive than modern MX nowdays.

Now, I know there's more appeal to VMX than the cost, but...
Owning and running a VMX bike is more difficult than a modern. Shops don't have parts in stock, there's not 20 ebay sellers having a price war on plastic kits, there's not 500 forum threads on how to get your forks working perfectly, you can buy a decent bike for $2k and go racing the next day, you hardly ever have to wait six weeks for bits to come from Japan, etc.

VMX doesn't need to exist. There's no rule that stops us racing our old bikes at modern club days.
But it does exist, because sufficient numbers of people want it to exist. The real question is WHY do we?
Everyone has their own answer, but I'm pretty sure the real answer is a lot more about PEOPLE and a lot less about bikes (compared to what everyone blurted out in the first instance).

[Rossvickicampbell]

Nathan - how many of the guys actually buy $2K moderns and go and race them?  I thought the majority were out there buying the latest bling every year at some exorbitant cost whilst I keep using my one and only trusty pre 75 bike - hence the cost of VMX is a lot less than modern?  Less meetings mean less travel, club licence costs are less as it is aimed at a different market.  I actually would of thought modern more expensive - plus a 4 stroke overhaul is a lot more than my old 2 stroke?

[Gippslander]

From the other side – why I do go racing:
Love the challenge of trying to do a little bit better, started out a few years ago regularly coming in last, now about "Middle Pack".
The older bikes are really easy to ride when they are set up properly and the track is not modern, nothing beats sliding on an older MX bike (okay perhaps Speedway but I've never had the balls for that)
Enjoy the workshop time, often mucking around getting things just right.
Good crowd, competitive but friendly, wealth of knowledge and always prepared to help.
Here in Victoria enough race meetings to keep you busy, Viper, VCM and Classic Scramble Club.
Travel is good – camping out a bit – get away from the household chores – see some different places.
Now that the bikes are set up not much work just usual maintenance, 83 Husky, 77 KTM and 74 Husky
Purchased a late model MX bike – scares the shit out of me
The constant challenge of trying to keep fit, without racing coming round every winter I probably wouldn't do anything about the Christmas ballast
Can't think of anything better to do ha ha

[Nathan S]

Ross, the O35s class has plenty of older bikes in it, every time I've raced it (and not just VMX blokes). And -despite perceptions - young blokes on 5-10 year old bikes are not that uncommon.

You're probably right to suggest that not many people buy a $2k bike to race modern MX, but there's still plenty of people out there racing on low dollar bikes.

[skypig]

I'm not suggesting racing moderns with vintage.(unless the vintage rider wants some more track time..)

I'd like more opportunity to ride my VMX against VMX riders closer to my age.
I'd like more opportunity to ride my Modern against Modern riders closer to my age.
I'd like more opportunity to ride my Supermoto against Supermoto riders closer to my age.

Race bikes for "mid pack" (or worse in my case) riders have never been cheaper.
I raced (rode around?) the Sumo championships on a 12yo KTM525. 54 rear wheel hp, more fun than barrel full of monkeys, almost worthless.

Either of these would probably be more bike than most could use to the limit, and likely do a few seasons of racing with basic maintenance.

2006 250SX
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/helensvale/motorcycles/immaculate-ktm-250sx/1101092678

2006 250SXF
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/peregian-beach/motorcycles/ktm-250-sx-f-2006/1101257161

This one might cost the purchase price again before its next race meeting.

YZ465G
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/wangaratta/motorcycles/1980-yamaha-465-motorcycle/1098396537

Travel, entry, Licence costs are quite significant.
I figure the more I race, the cheaper my Licence is. Some years $300/ per race....

[Nathan S]

More wisdom from skypig.

I would say that attitude is more important than age. I've read lots of stuff about "16 year old lunatics" on this forum, but the dumbest, shittiest and most dangerous riding I've seen has been from riders older than me...

[Daryl Jones]

 but the dumbest, shittiest and most dangerous riding I've seen has been from riders older than me...

Sometimes a rider Exactly the same age as me!!!

Cheers DJ