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Messages - DJRacing

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61
General Discussion / Re: Simons upside down forks
« on: July 12, 2014, 02:54:53 PM »
then you have answered your own question.

Dave, it is not me that can answer my own question, I believed I was answering my own questions back in Feburary 2014 but I was wrong. It is you that can answer my question and if you are serious with the above answer that I did in fact answer my own question and the Simons forks are all good for evolution racing then thank you for your quick reply.

62
General Discussion / Re: Simons upside down forks
« on: July 12, 2014, 02:40:02 PM »
"MODIFICATION" When I come to NZ, which Ive done several times (and greatly enjoyed it) I'll ride whatever I'm loaned and be thankfull for it. I rode a "Pre 75" bike at two separate meetings that had 9 inches of travel front and rear. I didnt think it necessary or polite to write to anyone, or post on this forum criticising another jurisdictions rules or interpretation of them.
If you come to Australia, and I hope you do, you'll be most welcome. I trust you'll afford us the same courtesy.
I repeat, neither in NZ nor hear, you are not being affected by our rules.

Col, you may not remember but after the Johnny Old meeting, yourself, Bill, Myself and a couple of other (I can't quite remember who now) sat down and had a few beers.  I have on many occasions offered my bikes out to fellow VMXers from across the ditch as well as my home, my van and anything else that may be needed. I have driven over 6 hours from my home to Auckland to pick up (someone I had never met before) and another 4 hours back to a VMX meeting so they could hopefully enjoy what we do over here. Once again I will also say a big thank you to the guys who have helped me when I have crossed the ditch to your country, Thanks guys.
This is getting off the subject though.

Col I'll post up a pm that I sent to Oldfart (Stu) to try to answer his question because it seems that your question is of a similar vain.


 DJRacing
Legend

 
Posts: 1529
YZ125X
   
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« Sent to: oldfart on: Today at 01:37:09 PM » ReplyQuoteDelete
Gidda Stu, how are you going ?
I will answer your question here, if you choose to post it up in the public forum that's your decision. I don't care one way or the other but I don't want to deviate from the topic in that thread even though it seems to be happening anyway.

The rules as you know in NZ can be made up on the day by the person running the meeting. We don't have a controlling body, just individuals who are hard working passionate VMX people.
I have put a proposal forward for a new series and regional champs that have new classes which are basically MA classes with 'most' of the rules from MA as I knew them to be before Feburary 2014.
I thought it would be better for us to become more inline with you guys over there since riders have been known to cross the ditch (you yourself included) which would make the transition much more easier. Our numbers have been dropping and we are trying different things to bring new and old into the VMX scene. Obviously we don't have no where near the same numbers as you guys do over there with means less numbers on the start grid and I believe that was the reason behind those classes you mentioned in the thread 'Simons upside down forks'.
Have a good one Stu,
Cheers DJ
If at first you dont succeed, give up and drink beer

63
General Discussion / Re: Simons upside down forks
« on: July 12, 2014, 02:09:03 PM »
DJ
It seems to be a problem for the NZ fraternity, now let me connect a few dots here........
Tanner
 



I don't see the problem with the fraternity of NZ (me) wanting to understand the MA rules, and you yourself have said that as long as the forks were originally made for drum brakes then they are fine.

The dots that you speak of, I'm guessing is that because I'm a NZer and the person that you seem to have a problem with is an X-pat NZer has nothing what so ever to do with what I am saying or debating. I am not someone's messenger.



64
General Discussion / Re: Simons upside down forks
« on: July 12, 2014, 12:41:08 PM »
They're in the GCRs. Really mate, it doesnt affect you so let it go.

Col don't you like me trying to understand your rules of CMX ?


16.11 MACHINE ELIGIBILITY
16.11.1 Eligible Machines
16.11.1.1    Only machines conforming to the requirements set out in this chapter will be accepted for competition.
16.11.1.2    The onus of proof of eligibility shall rest wholly upon the rider or entrant of the machine. Service and parts manual publication dates are not proof of eligibility.
16.12 SOUND EMISSIONS
16.12.0.1    Sound testing must be carried out at all permitted events; however, it is not mandatory to test all machines.
16.12.1 Specifications
16.12.1.1    Sound emissions are set out in the table below:
30 metres (from side of track) ride by test
DISCIPLINE   

LIMIT dB(A)
Dirt Track & Track (incl. Quads)    95
Record Attempts   

No limit
16.12.2 Sound Control During Competition
16.12.2.1    The Sound Control Officer (SCO) must arrive in sufficient time for discussions with the Clerk of the Course and other Technical Officials in order that a suitable test site and testing policy can be agreed.
16.12.2.2    Machines can be tested before, or after competing in an event, chosen by ballot, or as required by a Steward, Clerk of Course or SCO.
16.12.2.3    Where government regulations or planning orders exist in relation to lower sound emissions or where a venue has lower sound emission requirements as part of the hire contract, the sound emission required will prevail over General Competition Rule 16.12.1.1.
16.12.3 Use of Sound Level Meters
16.12.3.1    Sound testing apparatus must:

    Comply with international standard IEC 651, Type 1 or Type 2.
    Include a compatible calibrator, which must be used immediately before testing begins and always just prior to a re-test if a disciplinary sanction may be imposed.

16.12.3.2    Sound testing apparatus must be set to:

    ‘Fast response’
    ‘A’ weighted,
    Select range High 80~130 dB,
    Activate the function MAX MIN – set on MAX,

16.12.3.3    ‘30 Metre ride by’ test

    The sound levels will be measured with the sound meter/microphone fixed on a tripod, in the horizontal position, 30 metres from the edge of the track at a high speed point.

16.12.3.4    Tests shall not take place in the rain
16.12.4 Machine testing
16.12.4.1    If a machine fails, it can be represented for re-testing.
16.12.4.2    No person may compete in any event on a machine whose noise emissions exceed the prescribed levels.
16.12.4.3    A machine which does not comply with the sound limits can be presented several times.
16.13 FUEL
16.13.1 Fuel Warning
16.13.1.1    Fuels and lubricants are highly specialised substances and participants must be aware they may contain substances that are extremely dangerous to human health if misused, inhaled or allowed to contact skin.
16.13.1.2    Some of the components of fuel and lubricants are suspected of having the potential to cause cancer in rare circumstances.
16.13.1.3    The use of petrol as a general cleaning and washing agent is a common misuse of a potentially dangerous substance.
16.13.1.4    Fuels should be used and stored with extreme care and in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions.
16.13.2 Fuel Testing
16.13.2.1    For any event, meeting or series, the relevant controlling body may direct that no fuels other than fuels of prescribed specifications and from a prescribed source may be used.

    Tests to ensure that only prescribed fuels are used in an event, meeting or series may be administered at any time and place during the course of the same,
    The Clerk of Course, Race Director or Chief Scrutineer may direct the administration of fuel tests.

16.13.2.2    Fuel tests must comply with the following procedures:

    All containers for holding samples must be clean and constructed of robust non-reactive impermeable material, must be sealable, and must have provision for identification,
    Equipment used for the extraction of fuel from machines must be clean and constructed of fuel non-reactive material,
    All samples must be divided into two lots (Sample A and Sample B) of not less than 5ml each, which must be placed in separate containers,
    Once samples are placed in containers, the containers must immediately be sealed and identified by reference to the machine from which the sample was taken. This information must be entered on a fuel sample certificate which must certify the date, place and time of taking the sample, the identity of the machine from which the sample was taken and the identity of the rider,
    Both samples must remain in the control of the official who administered the test.
    The rider or the representative must sign the fuel sample certificate acknowledging samples have been taken and are sealed,
    All samples held by the official must be delivered as soon as practicable after the competition to the relevant controlling body which must deliver the Sample A as soon as practicable to a laboratory approved by MA where they must be tested for content and quality in accordance with standard scientific procedures,
    The relevant controlling body must as soon as practicable after receipt of the results notify the rider or rider’s team representative and MA,
    If the rider is dissatisfied with the test result of sample A, they may request sample B be tested at an MA approved laboratory in their presence.

16.13.3 Refuelling
16.13.3.1    During refuelling, each machine must be stationary with the engine stopped.
16.13.3.2    Refuelling will be deemed to have commenced when the fuel tank has been opened and completed when the tank is closed.
16.13.3.3    Smoking is strictly prohibited in areas where refuelling is permitted.
16.13.3.4    Riders are liable for exclusion from an event for failing to adhere to General Competition Rule 16.13.3.3, and are responsible for the actions of their mechanics and support team members.
16.13.4 Homologation of Fuel
16.13.4.1    Unleaded fuel produced by an oil company for sale in the Australian general transport fuel market through retail petrol pumps in at least five states does not have to be homologated. For the avoidance of doubt this means the fuel must be available for sale on demand from a roadside bowser outlet at each of at least five separate service stations in each of at least five Australian states or territories.
16.13.4.2    Organisations seeking homologation of fuel must provide MA with:

    Two one-litre sealed containers of the fuel for analysis,
    Details of the fuels characteristics,
    The distribution network,
    The price structure,
    A homologation fee of $2,500 in the first year and $2,000 per year thereafter.

16.13.4.3    Fuels approved under this General Competition Rule will be published at www.ma.org.au.
16.13.5 Fuel: Classic Motocross and Classic Dirt Track
   Classic Motocross and Classic Dirt Track fuel used for competition must be:

    ure methanol with no additives other than lubricating oil, or,
    Unleaded fuel that is no more than 100 RON and meets rule 16.13.4.1,
    Which contains no additives other than those added at the point of manufacture except for lubricating oil, or,
    Be a brand of fuel homologated by MA that is compatible with the “Fuel Quality Standards Act 2000”, or,
    Leaded fuel provided that the fuel is purchased from suppliers approved by Environmental Australia.

16.14 ENGINES: GENERAL
16.14.1 Reciprocating Engines
16.14.1.1    Cubic capacity = (D2 x 3.1416 x C x N)
4Where:
D = Bore in centimetres,
C = stroke in centimetres,
N = Number of cylinders.
16.14.2 Engine capacity tolerances
16.14.2.1    The actual engine capacity of a machine competing in a capacity class may not exceed the prescribed capacity for that class by more than 5%.
16.15 MACHINES AND COMPONENTS
16.15.1 Centre and Side Stands
16.15.1.1    Centre and side stands must be removed for all types of competition
16.15.2 Handlebars
16.15.2.1    The ends of the handlebars or twist grip sleeves must be securely plugged so as to present a flush or rounded end.
16.15.2.2    Handlebar levers must:

    Have ball ends with a minimum diameter of:
        15mm, for levers longer than 76mm,
        10mm, for levers shorter than 76mm.
    Measure no more than 200mm from the fulcrum to the extremity of the ball.

16.15.2.3    Throttle controls must be self-closing.
16.15.3 Kick Start Levers
16.15.3.1    Kick start levers, other than transverse, must be folding.
16.15.4 Drive Chain Protection
16.15.4.1    Primary drives (the drive connecting engine to clutch) must be guarded so as to prevent direct access to the chain or sprockets with the fingers.
16.15.4.2    The guard must be constructed of:

    Metal having a minimum thickness of 1.6mm, which may be mesh or expanded metal provided the openings do not exceed 10mm, or
    Fibreglass having a minimum thickness of 3mm.

16.15.4.3    If a plastic, fibreglass or part open chain guard is used, a steel bolt of not less than 10mm diameter, placed outside the bottom rear quadrant of the clutch sprocket. This bolt, if damaged, must be replaced.
16.15.4.4    Projecting sprockets, which are not behind a clutch assembly or directly behind a frame member, must be guarded where the sprocket teeth are further than 30mm from a frame member or swinging arm.
16.15.4.5    A counter shaft sprocket which is more than 30mm from the outside of the swing arm pivot must be covered.
 16.15.4.6    Other than CMX/CDT A chain guard made of suitable material must be fitted in a way to prevent trapping between the lower drive chain run and the final drive sprocket at the rear wheel.
16.15.5 Tyres
16.15.5.1    Tyres must comply with the following:

    Metal studs, spikes, chain, rope or other non-skid attachments may not be used unless permitted by the relevant Supplementary Regulations.
    Paddle or scoop treaded tyres may not be fitted.

16.15.5.2    Valve caps must be used for all competitions.
16.15.6 Mudguards
16.15.6.1    Either a rear mudguard or a seat must be fitted which extends at least 20 degrees to the rear of a vertical line drawn through the rear wheel axle.
16.15.6.2    Mudguards must be made of a material, which is not liable to cause personal injury if deformed.
16.15.7 Acceptable machines and components: Pre 60 Solo
16.15.7.1    Acceptable for the pre 60 class are machines and components built up to and including the 1959 model. The only exception to this General Competition Rule is where the model remains unaltered after this date.
16.15.7.2    Frames of any manufacture are acceptable within the suspension criteria and considerate of the era.
16.15.7.3    Front wheel travel will not exceed 178mm (7 inches) rear wheel travel will be limited to 102mm (4 inches) measured at the axle. Rear shock absorbers will be in the original position using the original mounting points.
16.15.7.4    Plastic and fibreglass is not permitted.
16.15.7.5    Engines and gearboxes must remain externally unchanged.
16.15.7.6    Period carburettors or Amal Mk1 Concentric.
16.15.7.7    Exhaust may be modified but must follow the original lines and meet sound control regulations in GCR 16.12.
16.15.7.8    Folding footrests must be fitted.
16.15.7.9    Countershaft sprocket covers will be fitted.
16.15.8 Acceptable machines and components: Pre 65 Solo
16.15.8.1    Acceptable for the pre 65 class are machines and components built up to and including the 1964 model. The only exception to this rule is where the model remains unaltered after this date.
16.15.8.2    Frames of any manufacture are acceptable within the suspension criteria and considerate of the era.
16.15.8.3    Front wheel travel will not exceed 178mm (7 inches) rear wheel travel will be limited to 102mm (4 inches) measured at the axle.
16.15.8.4    Rear shock absorbers will be in the original position using the original mounting points.
16.15.8.5    Engines and gearboxes must remain externally unchanged.
16.15.8.6    Carburettors of any type pre 75 round slide may be used.
16.15.8.7    Exhaust may be modified but must follow the original lines and meet sound control regulations in GCR 16.12.
16.15.8.8    Folding footrests must be fitted.
16.15.8.9    Countershaft sprocket covers will be fitted.
16.15.9 Acceptable machines and components: Pre 70 Solo
16.15.9.1    Acceptable for the pre 70 class are machines and components built up to and including the 1969 model. The only exception to this rule is where the model remains unaltered after this date.
16.15.9.2    Front wheel travel will not exceed 178mm (7 inches) rear wheel travel will be limited to 102mm (4 inches) measured at the axle. Rear shock absorbers will be in the original position using the original mounting points.
16.15.9.3    Engines and gearboxes must remain externally unchanged.
16.15.9.4    Carburettors; any type of pre 75 round slide may be used.
16.15.9.5    No reed valves permitted.
16.15.9.6    Exhaust may be modified but must follow the original lines and meet sound control regulations in GCR 16.12.
16.15.9.7    Folding footrests must be fitted.
16.15.9.8    Countershaft sprocket covers will be fitted.
16.15.9.9    Yamaha XS1 and XS650 engines are eligible.
16.15.9.10    Acceptable follow on models pre 70

    AJS Stormer 250,
    Greeves griffon models,
    Yamaha AT1, DT1, CT1, RT1 pre reed block.

16.15.10 Acceptable machines and components: Pre 75 Solo
16.15.10.1    Acceptable for the pre 75 class are machines and components built up to and including the 1974 model. The only exception to this rule is where the model remains unaltered after this date.
16.15.10.2    Front wheel travel will not exceed 178mm (7 inches) rear wheel travel will be limited to 102mm (4 inches) measured at the axle. Rear shock absorbers will be in the original position using the original mounting points.
16.15.10.3    Engines and gearboxes must remain externally unchanged.
16.15.10.4    Carburettors; any type of pre 75 round slide may be used.
16.15.10.5    XS1 and XS650 engines are eligible.
16.15.10.6    Exhaust may be modified but must follow the original lines and meet sound control regulations in GCR 16.12.
16.15.10.7    Folding footrests must be fitted.
16.15.10.8    Countershaft sprocket covers will be fitted.
16.15.10.9    Acceptable follow on models pre 75

    Honda CR125M1, XL250K1, XL350K1, MT250 and MT125
    Yamaha YZ360B, DT250B,
    Suzuki TS400 (all).

16.15.11 Acceptable machines and components: Pre 78 Solo
16.15.11.1    Acceptable for the pre 78 classes:
a) Machines and components that are limited to the 1975, 1976, 1977 models alone. The only exception to this rule is where the model remains unaltered after this date.
b) Pre 78 Women’s class: acceptable machines and components are up to and including the 1977 model year. The only exception to this rule is where the model remains unaltered after this date.
16.15.11.2    Front wheel travel will not exceed 229mm (9 inches) rear wheel travel will be limited to 229mm (9 inches) measured at the axle. Rear shock absorbers will be in the original position using the original mounting points.
16.15.11.3    Engines and gearboxes must remain externally unchanged.
16.15.11.4    Carburettors; any type of pre 78 round slide may be used.
16.15.11.5    Exhaust may be modified but must follow the original lines and meet sound control regulations in GCR 16.12.
16.15.11.6    Folding footrests must be fitted.
16.15.11.7    Countershaft sprocket covers will be fitted.
16.15.11.8    Acceptable follow on models pre 78

    CZ 125 1978, CZ400 1978,
    Montesa VB (must comply to suspension limits),
    Yamaha TT500 1978.

16.15.12 Acceptable machines and components: Evolution Class Solo
16.15.12.1    Bikes will be OEM (original equipment manufacturer).
16.15.12.2    Modifications converting later equipment to comply will not be allowed.
16.15.12.3    All components will be of the period the machine was manufactured:

    No linkage suspension,
    No disk brakes,
    Air cooled motors.

16.15.12.4    Carburettors; period flat slide carburettors and any round slide carburettor may be used.
16.15.12.5    Engines and gearboxes must remain externally unchanged.
16.15.12.6    Exhaust may be modified but must follow the original lines and be fitted with an effective muffler.
16.15.12.7    Folding footrests must be fitted.
16.15.12.8    Countershaft sprocket covers will be fitted.
16.15.12.9    The handlebars must be equipped with a protection pad on the cross bar. Handlebars not fitted with a cross bar must be equipped with a protection pad located in the middle of the handlebars covering the handlebar clamps.
16.15.13 Acceptable machines and components: Pre 85 Solo
16.15.13.1    Acceptable for the pre 85 class are machines and components built up to and including the 1984 model. The only exception to this rule is where the model remains unaltered after this date.
16.15.13.2    Carburettors; period flat slide carburettors and any round slide carburettor may be used.
16.15.13.3    Engines and gearboxes must remain externally unchanged.
16.15.13.4    Exhaust may be modified but must follow the original lines and be fitted with an effective muffler.
16.15.13.5    Folding footrests must be fitted.
16.15.13.6    Countershaft sprocket covers will be fitted.
16.15.13.7    The handlebars must be equipped with a protection pad on the cross bar. Handlebars not fitted with a cross bar must be equipped with a protection pad located in the middle of the handlebars covering the handlebar clamps.
16.15.14 Acceptable machines and components: Pre 90 Solo
16.15.14.1    Acceptable for the pre 90 class are machines and components built up to and including the 1989 model. The only exception to this rule is where the model remains unaltered after this date.
16.15.14.2    Carburettors; period flat slide carburettors and any round slide carburettor may be used.
16.15.14.3    Engines and gearboxes must remain externally unchanged.
16.15.14.4    Exhaust may be modified but must follow the original lines and be fitted with an effective muffler.
16.15.14.5    Folding footrests must be fitted.
16.15.14.6    Countershaft sprocket covers will be fitted.
16.15.14.7    The handlebars must be equipped with a protection pad on the cross bar. Handlebars not fitted with a cross bar must be equipped with a protection pad located in the middle of the handlebars covering the handlebar clamps.
16.16 SLIDERS
16.16.1 Slider Frames
16.16.1.1    The frame must:

    Have a conventional swing arm rear suspension with twin shock absorbers,
    Have a front wheel diameter of 23”,
    Have a rear wheel diameter of 19”,
    Have rear tyres with a maximum tread pattern depth of 8mm,
    Not be fitted with leading-link front forks.

16.16.2 Slider Solo Engines
16.16.2.1    The slider engine must:

    Be a single cylinder,
    When four stroke be 2- valve push rod operation,
    Have a single spark plug,
    Be vertical in the chassis,
    Be fitted with a round slide carburettor, or
    Be a period two stroke compatible with class entered.

16.16.3 Slider Gearbox: Classic Long Track
16.16.3.1    The gearbox must have at least two gears.
16.16.4 Slider Sidecar Frames
16.16.4.1    Conventional type frames as used prior to 31st December 1976 must be used.
16.16.5 Slider Sidecar Engines
16.16.5.1    Engines must have been manufactured before 31st December 1976.
16.17 SIDECARS
16.17.1 All Classes
16.17.1.1    Left -hand and right -hand sidecars may compete against each other in Classic Motocross.
16.17.2 Frames and Parts
16.17.2.1    For the Pre-1975 classes, all performance parts except frames must be manufactured before 31st December 1974 and must comply with the following:

        Wheel track measurement, taken between the longitudinal centres of the rear and sidecar wheels must be between 810mm and 1100mm,
        The minimum ground clearance must be 175mm unladen,
        The maximum lean of the motorcycle at saddle height mustbe 50mm,
        The dimensions of the sidecar baseboard in plain view, taken from a line drawn no further rearwards than the lowest point of the front down-tube to the forward most point of the sidecar wheel tyre and terminating no further rearwards than a line drawn at right angles to the machine from the rearmost point of the rear tyre, must be:
            At least 760mm long adjacent to the sidecar wheel,
            At least 300mm wide with at least 25mm radius to all corners.
        There must be no more than 50mm between baseboard and motorcycle and between baseboard and sidecar wheel. The baseboard must be arranged so as not to allow the passenger’s feet to be trapped,
        There must be no less than 4 sidecar attachment points,
        Stirrup fitting for the passenger’s feet are not permitted,
        Handholds:
            Must be finished with a loop of at least 100mm,
            Must not project beyond a line taken with the outer edge of the sidecar mudguard or bodywork,
            Adjacent to the nose section of the sidecar and less than 200mm from the track surface must be at an angle of at least 45° from the horizontal.
        The rear end of the rear wheel mudguard must terminate not more than 65° above a horizontal line drawn through the rear wheel axle and be valanced to baseboard level on the inside,
        The sidecar mudguard must cover at least 135° of the periphery of the wheel and be valanced to baseboard level on the inside,
        No machine may be fitted with scoop or paddle tyres,
        Suspension travel must not exceed:
            152mm (6”) 178mm (7”) measured at the front axle,
            102mm (4”) at the rear axle.
        Rear tyre width must not exceed 135mm (5.3”),
        Brakes:
            Front – single caliper, single disc may be fitted provided they were manufactured before 31st December 1974,
            Rear – rear disc brakes may be used provided they were fitted as standard equipment for that particular combination.

    Only round-slide carburettors manufactured within the relevant period may be used,
    Engine capacity must be up to 1300cc.

16.17.2.2    Pre-1985 is for sidecars constructed with motors manufactured before 31st December 1984.
16.17.2.3    A lanyard operated ignition cut-out switch, operating on the primary circuit, must be fitted to the following with a maximum length of one metre:
DISCIPLINE
   
MACHINE
Motocross    Sidecars
Dirt track    Sidecars
16.17.2.4    Pre-1968 will be for sidecars constructed from road going frames and all major components are those commercially available within the period.
16.17.2.5    The following table sets out the machines and components which eligibility scrutineers may use as a guide in determining eligibility. Entrants must prove eligibility of machines not listed below.
MAKE
   
MODEL(S)
Wasp    All up to and including RT2, RT8 and RT14
Hagon    All up to 31st December 1974
Yamaha    XS 650 all models
Honda    Any K series
Norton    All 750, 850 to Mk2 only
Westlake    All up to 850cc and 31st December 1974
Triumph    All up to T150
CCM    All BSA B50 based models



The Evolution Class
original version of the rules for the class had no reference to OEM - this was added to prevent the modification of linkage frames to be twin shock after the first year as there we at least 2 bikes like this and more on the way. There was never a time where the simplicity of Evo was confused by a period, cut off date - nothing. The objective was to keep it as simple as possible. To that end and as the person who (along with the members of the CMX Commission at the time) wrote the rules here it is for you once again.
The interpretation of the Evolution class is
If the frame started life as a non linkage frame thats Ok
If the bike has drum brakes and is air cooled then thats Ok too
If the bike is made from components that started their life as those bits and you havent cut them up to fit - then thats Ok too.
So - lets been quite clear.
If that set of forks you use were made to accept drum brakes and they fit your bike - go right ahead and use them, there are no dates, there is no rule that they must have come of anything other than they started their life as drum brake forks and have a drum fitted.
Thats been my ruling at EVERY national championship.
All the stuff written about Evo is ruining the class - its never been a problem until such time as someone decided they saw it differently and a number of inderviduals thought he was right. He isnt.
Evo was always considered loose in terms of the rule book; there are guys out there with modifications that may not make them legal in pre 85 however Evo bikes are legal pre 85 bikes in the vast majority of cases.
Some other points that need correction
The MA board doesnt make the final decision - it takes final advice from the CMX Commission, always has always will.
The CMX Commission takes its advice from the State bodies of motorcycling and acts on it - always has and always will. The CMX Commission dosnt make the rules - you do.
That said, after discussion with the Commission there will be no change to Evolution this year. The above ruling will stay as it has since day 1. You have an opportunity to change that and I suggest that everyone with a view wanting to change the class make it through the correct channels. Eventually the majority of the views received from your various state bodies will be what makes change or keeps things the way they are right now.
Submissions can be made by Clubs, inderviduals or interested groups to MA directly or through your State committee.
The proposed amendments to the GCRs have come from like minded inderviduals such as yourselves and will only be added or subtracted from the GCRs on your advice.

To those with nothing better to do than to stir the pot - take a read of the things that you have contributed and ask if the best interests of the sport are served by what you are doing. If you dont like it change it but dont bitch from the seat of anonymity if your not prepared to contribute constructivly to the sport.

Happy to reply to constructive comment both for against

David Tanner
Chair of the CMX /CDT Commission



Simo
firstly the TLS front brake isnt important, what is important is that it is a drum brake. If the forks its connected to were made for a drum brake and are unmodified them your fine by me. The measurement of the fork, diameter, whats inside of it, if its painted to look like Simmons Forks dosnt matter.
Second - if the 480/500 engine fits into the 250 RA frame without modification to the frame and engine then by the rules as I see them it would be Ok - however - I dont believe it will fit. Dont confuse this with other parts or classes where fitting different engines into different frames has been done for eons.
There has been discussion on this in the past. Its a restrictive part of the GCRs but it limits the issues as seen internationally where you create your dream machine from just about anything. Some machines are branded in name only and have no resemblance to the source machine/s.
third - to take the frame and modify it to have twin shocks (from linkage to twin shock) would make it ineligible - same as a set of forks that started life as a disc front end - ineligible.

It would be really easy to add bits and pieces to the Evo rules to limit this to allow that and so on; its not that easy and the more you add the more to are allowing conjecture. The 3 rule EVO standard was hoped to make it easy to get involved and for the purest there is pre 90, pre 85 etc. Those classes are alike and black and white, EVO isnt and it was deliberatly so.



one other point
note that EVO hit the rule book before pre 85 and pre 90. It used to be the only long travel class. It was never described as a period, or subject to any cut off date but I hear discussion (and State Committee Minutes) that an Evo bike cant be made up from components of a pre 85 legal bike - this is wrong; period. No one was considering pre 85 as a class when Evolution hit the rule book.



im sorry Col but I can't find it anywhere that says I can't use those forks. Even in the interpretation of the rules by the elligability scrutineer

65
General Discussion / Re: Simons upside down forks
« on: July 12, 2014, 11:25:12 AM »
Which is covered in the rule
Col please show me in the rules ?

66
General Discussion / Re: Simons upside down forks
« on: July 12, 2014, 09:08:58 AM »
You guys are funny.
K

Always like a Laugh BigK, you'll be keen to get some of those big open classer Honda EVO bikes out you have there BigK ?

67
General Discussion / Re: Simons upside down forks
« on: July 12, 2014, 08:29:35 AM »
YZ465 with a WR500 engine was my way of thinking. WP USD with KTM TLS brakes front and rear. All easy to get, affordable and apparently legal.

Good call MG.  I couldn't remember if the WP usd was originally fitted with a drum brake, that's why I said the Simons USD

68
General Discussion / Simons upside down forks
« on: July 12, 2014, 08:13:39 AM »
I'm looking to build a new EVO bike and want to buy the complete set of Simons upside down forks with triples. The same as what Brad Lackey used with the drum brake.
These should go very well with my YZ490 1988 motor in the Evolution class.

69
Yamaha / Re: YZ125a Facelift
« on: June 15, 2014, 01:59:38 PM »
Very nicely done.

70
Competition / Re: Rule re-write.
« on: February 21, 2014, 09:39:39 PM »
It would have to be deemed legal . As you said any OEM drum brakes can be used. They still make drum brakes today. The carby fits into that period.

That's exactly what I'm saying Ted, with no defining period I struggle to see how it wouldn't be legal. 

71
Competition / Re: Rule re-write.
« on: February 21, 2014, 09:18:49 PM »
What's your opinion on this one DJ

The eligibility scrutineer has stated that Evo is not limited to Pre 85, Pre 90 ,and is not an era or period.

The MoMS state " period flat slide and any round slide carburettors can be used "

Seeing as there is no period limit I will be entering a bike with a 2014 Mikuni TM 38 flat slide carby bolted to a 465 H.

Ted that's a funny one because on one hand the rules state ;
16.15.12.3    All components will be of the period the machine was manufactured:
But as there is no defining time period for Evo (stated by an offical from MA) then does that mean the year the bike was made? Or does it mean any carb off any Aircooled motor can be used or does it mean any carb fitted to a reed block or 'V' block power reed could be used??
Although looking at rule;
16.15.12.4    Carburettors; period flat slide carburettors and any round slide carburettor may be used.
 Once again I'm unsure of the period they mean here because the period is on-going because Aircooled motors are still being made. Is the 'Period' went the bike was made, or when the last bike made with an Aircooled motor??

Common sense (which can't be counted on because rules have been put in place of) would suggest that rules,
16.15.12
16.15.12.1
16.15.12.2
16.15.12.3
 would all be combined with the notion that all bikes were manufactured with
    No linkage suspension,
    No disk brakes,
    Air cooled motors.
so then the PEROID that they talk about would be when a bike is/was manufactured with all the above three governing factors.
But as has been stated, this isn't the case and components from other periods can be used if it is bolted to other parts that are the same e.g. Forks and drum-brakes, so if a carb is bolted to a reed or an air filter does it mean it can be used because the period is the same. Modern 2014 air filter - carb - reed  or Evo air filter - carb - reed ??
To answer your question Ted, I'm sorry I can't, I am at a loss to understand the meanings of the rules of Evo that have been presented to us now.

72
Competition / Re: Rule re-write.
« on: February 21, 2014, 07:44:48 PM »
Pre 78.
I have thought long and hard on this class because it is one of my personal favourites and a very exciting time in motocross history. Without trying to change to much (rules) but still allowing people to modify and experiment with suspension as what was happening in the day. I'm not sure what the longest travel was for a stock bike at the time(1977) and (including flow-ons) but that's what the 10% greater than 9" is for so that stock suspension doesnt have to be restricted. Although Pre78 has suspension restictions and obviously back in the day there were none but they couldnt see into the future as we can see back in the past, so hence the 9" rule or the 10% greater for the last of the bikes of that era(pre78). The rule allowing up to 9" of travel for after-market or new suspension is so older bikes or people trying to ridiculously suspend there bikes don't lose there identity of Pre78 and start looking more like an Evo bike, but can still be competitive against the latest in the class in a racing situation. I agree with what has been said about altering suspension mounts for the purpose of re-creating the era. I hope everyone can understand what I have just written above because Pre78 is truly a piece of MX history and its identity should never be lost.

Pre 78 Solo and Pre 78 Woman's.
      This class is for showcasing the era when the revolution suspension travel wars began. Lots of ideas and innovations were tried and tested. This class is here for that reason.

16.15.11.1    The pre 78 class is for machines that were (or could have been) built, up to and     including 1977.

16.15.11.2    No more than 9" front and rear travel with a 10% greater allowance for bikes still fitted with the manufacturers original shocks and forks (9.9" or 251.4mm).
*note  (these measurements can be altered to be more correct with the bikes of the era

16.15.11.3   Suspension mounts maybe altered/moved but must remain within the parameters of the Era. The same number of shocks must still be used unless altering to a mono shock cantilevered type suspension.

16.15.11.4.  Any type of round slide carburettor of the Era can be used.

16.15.11.5.  All After-market, special and/or optional production parts of the Era are allowed, including major components. New parts must be compliant with what was available in the Era.

16.15.11.6   Acceptable follow on models for Pre78,
                   CZ 125 1978, CZ400 1978, Montesa VB, Yamaha TT500 1978

 I think/hope the above rules are what most people have asked for and that they are open enough to encourage more stock and modified bikes with limitations a more equal competitiveness (not that it wasnt already) on race day, and allowing the older bikes the ability to be modified as was in the day. 

73
eBay Finds / Re: Montesa VR 250 Wheelsmith
« on: February 19, 2014, 05:09:03 PM »
Hi husky500, I am a stubborn old(er) bastard but you are dead right in questioning the 99% comment. On the basis of calls I've been getting I'd guess it's doubtfull it's even 50%.
I don't understand the furore all this has kicked up.Combining the relevant threads on this subject ( two of which have hit the dungeon) we are now approachin 40 pages.
To me it seems simple, put long travel on a pre75 bike, no mystery it's Pre78 under our rules. Put modified later components on an Evo bike and it becomes Pre85 etc etc.
Every time before a Nats this forum goes ape about something. This year its mainly about Evo rules. Evolution has been going for at least 10 years, and been included in about 8 Nats - no protests or formal submissions for change in all that time.
Now this puts unnecessary pressure on officials, mostly volunteers, and puts the cloud of controversy over the event 8 weeks out.
Anyway it's my birthday that weekend so be nice everyone

Hi Col, sorry to say, but it is a big mystery. The pre75 Montesa that Mark has posted up isn't pre78 legal(sorry Mark, not picking an argument). The Pre78 rules are very clear on this (at the present time).
The rules of Pre78 as they stand at the moment.

16.15.11.1    Acceptable for the pre 78 classes:
a) Machines and components that are limited to the 1975, 1976, 1977 models alone. The only exception to this rule is where the model remains unaltered after this date.

Sorry Mark and Col, but this bike can't be raced in Pre78, it has to go up to Evo.

I like the bike Mark and yes it would make a cool pre78 bike if it was allowed to race there and like many other bikes of the pre75 era that have been altered to longer travel than 4"&7".

74
General Discussion / Re: Happy Birthday Davey Crockett.
« on: February 19, 2014, 04:03:24 PM »
Happy birthday Joan

75
Competition / Re: Rule re-write.
« on: February 15, 2014, 04:49:30 PM »
Nathan I hope you don't mind but I have listed a few thoughts in Red next to yours and maybe some discussion (not arguments) might take place by the mature and informative people of this forum.

Now that lots of people's brains have exploded, here's the same rules with annotations in blue. (The blue bits aren't part of the rules - they help people understand the wording.

Pre 78 Solo and Women's Pre-78. This class is intended to represent the transition era between the short travel Pre-75 machines and the long travel Evo machines.
16.15.11.1    The pre 78 class is for machines that closely represent those built up to (and including) 1977 models.
16.15.11.2    Front wheel travel will not exceed 229mm (9 inches) rear wheel travel will be limited to 229mm (9 inches) measured at the axle. (I want to change this to 10", but in the spirit of not changing the regs, I have resisted...). No more than 9" front and rear travel with a 10% greater allowance for bikes still fitted with the manufacturers original shocks and forks (9.9" or 251.4mm).
16.15.11.4    Carburettors; any type of pre 78 round slide may be used.
16.15.11.8     Acceptable follow on models pre 78

    CZ 125 1978, CZ400 1978,
    Montesa VB, (ditched the "must comply with suspension limits bit" because the bike has to comply with 16.15.11.2 and 16.11.1.1)
    Yamaha TT500 1978 (is this correct?)


Evolution. This class is intended to represent the era of long suspension travel, before water-cooling, disc brakes and linkage rear suspension became dominant.
16.15.12.1    The Evo class is for machines that use drum brakes, air-cooling and non-linkage rear suspension, as was commonplace until 1981. It also allows for later machines up to (and including) 1985 models that retained this technology. (yes, 1985. Locking Evo into an era kills off the SexMax and any variation of it, without harming any of the 'real' Evo bikes. It still allows the later Evo Huskies, later CZs, and DT175s(!) )
e) Evolution class bikes must have  No linkage suspension, No disk brakes, and Air cooled motors.
16.15.12.4    Carburettors; period flat slide carburettors and any round slide carburettor may be used.
16.15.12.9    The handlebars must be equipped with a protection pad on the cross bar. Handlebars not fitted with a cross bar must be equipped with a protection pad located in the middle of the handlebars covering the handlebar clamps. (not sure if this is supposed to be on the older eras too? Just repeating what's in the current rules).
f) Front forks must be of the non-USD type, where the fork seal(s) move with the front axle. (stops Simmons USDs and 84 KTM USDs).
(I've written this using Dave Tanner's interpretation which was basically 'we don't care if it came from a linkage/water-cooled/disc braked bike, provided the end result has drums, air and no link'. I don't personally agree, but its the closest we've got to an answer to that long running question, so I used it).

16.15.12 Evo class.
                               This class is intended to represent the era of long travel suspension (LTS) before linkage rear suspension and/or water cooled motors and/or disc brakes.
 16.15.12.1 The period or era for Evo is generally up to and including 1981 but no more than 1985.  16.15.12.2 Evolution bikes have to have been manufactured with, Non Linkage suspension, Drum Brakes and Aircooled Motors.
a) All parts from those bikes are permissible as are all after-market parts of this era.     
       b) Modifying your bike with other major parts(other than after-market parts) from a newer era or technology is not allowed (no USD forks).



By the way, YES, I am an outsider so I have no personal agenda other than if you guys (in Oz) get it right then other places may adopt your rules.
All I have done is read what people seem to want from their rules and put pen to paper.
As most in here and the "other thread" have said some rules need tweaking/ clarifying so it is fair, simple and easy.
Sometimes looking from the outside in can be more clear and less bais.
Anyway gentlemen, some times a simple Yes or No answer can be a lot more effective than a long drawn out opinion, so with that I will let the games begin.

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