OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Vintage Track => Topic started by: firko on August 17, 2009, 01:37:21 pm
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With all of the talk of big dolllar bikes becoming more and more common, I thought it'd be a good time to return to my favourite subject, budget vintage racers. Rather than going the expensive route of buying an already set up American aftermarket frame, my mate Peter is putting together an interesting little dirt track project using a basket case IT250 roller as the basis. So far the bike has cost Peter $630 which includes the $400 for the IT and the YZ465H engine. Apart from buying a new set of Magura levers he's found nearly everything in his and other peoples junk stashes. He was lucky that the engine was in good nick and needed little to get it in race trim.
The IT frame was stripped of all un needed brackets and gizmos and was deraked to 26 degrees to get it into a more dirt track attitude. A new rear subframe was made to mount the twin shocks. The stock IT swingarm lost it's cantilever brace and shock mount and twin shock mounts were also fitted. The monoshock was ditched in favour of the twin shock set up to enable Peter to set up the ride height more easily.An MX250 tank was used and Peter is currently building the seat/tail section and pipe and is lacing up a 19" front wheel. The forks will naturally also be shortened. Once finished the bike will be stripped and painted, polished and blinged up, in a similar manner to his previous el cheapo racer, the infamous 'Yamaico', Yamaha MX250 powered Maico.
Peters plan is to debut the bike at the Australian Classic Dirt Track Championships at Barleigh Ranch in September.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/pete%20flat%20tracker.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/pete%20flat%20tracker%204.jpg)
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What class would it run in?
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mm pre 85. what year a 465 ?
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I'd assume it'd race in Evo open.
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Thanks Firko you have renewed mt enthusiasm for my SP370 project. How difficult is it to de-rake the headstock? Who should i be talking to around SE Qld for such work? The SP has about 31 degrees and i was thinking of bringing it back to 27.
Cheers,
Steve
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(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/pete%20flat%20tracker%203.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/pete%20flat%20tracker%202.jpg)
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Nifty! ;D
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you've got to love some backyard ingenuity ;)
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Hi Firko, who is the brains behind that invention the keep it simple stupid (KISS threory),great to see the ease through pics rather then the explanation and easy for others to comprehend .
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Simply brilliant!
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Hi Firko, who is the brains behind that invention
Peter Rowland is the builder. This thing'll be seriously competitive despite the low budget.
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this give me something to do with a yz250g frame/swingarm i cant sell because the bottom h/stem gusset is rusted,1 variation to the theme is ill be using a cr250rz motor which was given to me
Firko do you have any more pics to show us with the tank off and joining of the top frame tube after the deraking
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Here's todays upgrade as told by Peter:
Today's update. Back wheel built, seat foam fitted and shaped, number plates made, frame brackets for number plates and rear dirt shield installed, black box mounting box fabricated, tank mounts fabricated and installed, seat mounts made and installed, pipe design underway. Once pipe finished pull apart and paint. Still have to fully weld all the little brackets which I'll do when the frame is bare. Need to build the front wheel once it's all apart. Just over the $850 mark now and I only have to get the seat covered and get a chain and a couple of cables. Shouldn't be any more cost after that so it looks like it will come in under a grand - sweet.
I'll send a couple of photos tomorrow of the derake if you want to post them for TT5 Matt.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/flat%20tracker%20pete.jpg)
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Lookin good Firko, but unless a whole heap of Classic Dirt Track Racers get off there collective ars'es and enter for the Aust Champs at Raymond Terrace next month Peters idea of debuting the Budget Flat Tracker their could be in some doubt. Entrys close 28/8 but am hearing they may be prepared to extend the closing date for a few days. Not sure I understand the complacency. The club is keen as mustard but getting no support from the riders.
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I can't believe some vintage "racers" Col. We had record entrys at Conondale with a positive vibe all round, everybody as keen as shit. Now we have the other big event on the yearly calendar and the silence is deafening. I've asked a number of riders if they're going to the Dirt Track Nats and many of them gave mE the "I'm going up there to watch" answer. What's wrong with racing? Why do motocrossers ignore dirt track? It's almost as if it's below them.
Back in our day Col we raced dirt track and motocross with no bias towards either sport. It's what we did. Todays vintage prima donnas seem to think that dirt track is some sort of wank, not worthy of their presence. I get so disapointed with the current generation of vintage racing prima donnas. They're letting down the very clubs that have gone out on a limb to promote th Championship race just for them. All they ask is is for a some support back from the racers. Please, if you haven't entered the Nats, get your entry in ASAP.
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Firko not sure if heard it or read it somewhere on the VMX forum that maybe that it is a bit close to Connondale and maybe money/time is an issue for some (it would be for me) but what I cant understand is that Newcastle and the Hunter generally has always kind of been the hub of Dirt Track in NSW and I honestly thought they would be coming out of the woodwork. Maybe someone can enlighten us. If VMX is your go and you have'nt given Dirt Track a go it's easy on the bike and easy on the body and a ton of fun. So come on in "the waters fine".
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Here's a couple more shots of Pete's Yamahas steering head mods. Note the gusset.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/flat%20track%20pete%20steering%20mods%202.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/flat%20track%20pete%20steering%20mods.jpg)
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thanks for the extra pics Firko thats doable down at my local tafe metal fab shop [Kevs sponpership]
beening new to dirt tracking whats the go with 19 inch front wheels/tyres over the 21 inch?and what about the back tyre as well?
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Petes started on the pipe. He's using the dimensions of a DG pipe but pointing down instead of up.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/flat%20track%20pete%20pipe.jpg)
The wheel choice is a personal one Matt. Peters using a 21" in the above bike but I'm using a 19"on my Benelli 650 to achieve the flat tracker look more than anything. If the track is hard packed and oiled like in the US and they used to be here the 19" with a Maxxis or Goodyear dirt track tyre works great but on todays loose dirt tracks the 21" seems to work better. On the rear the 18" Michelin or similar trials tyre seems to be the go on our tracks.
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YEp what he said, unless its a show bike and its a pre 75 and you want the look, going racing you will need the 21 - 18, but drop the forks down until they hit the underside of your bars.
Here are the usual 4 - 19" choices for you - these girls are on 19" , my trackmaster ( purple one ) on speedways, white one has carlsie rear and goodyear front and my 51 bike is on the Pirelli MT53. The carlise and pirelli have ended up the best of them, for some reason its like an early trails intermediate pattern but seems to stick but also cuts through dirt soft track ( afternoon heats) the speed way sucks unless you have the HP to drive it and the goodyears just look cool, but alas when the tracks chopped up you just bog down or they float off course.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d88/munchboxlive/RIMG0392.jpg)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d88/munchboxlive/RIMG0407.jpg)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d88/munchboxlive/RR.jpg)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d88/munchboxlive/Freaky.jpg)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d88/munchboxlive/cerrani.jpg)
Like firko said its a given, 18 with a Michiein if you serious, plus proberly cheaper in the long run if you doing a budget run and you get more satisfaction.
next year im doing a rejigg and the race bike will be on other rims, and ill re shod these 19" with there orignal fat tyres for show - display events.
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how do you get awat with dics brakes as it has to be oem as per ma gcr to have them .your bikes are not oem.same as cliffs hagon they use other parts to make the bikes up.hagon make frame other people supply the motors.
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Freaky
how come you dont run front brakes and whats with heavy rear disc brakes when a light drummy would do?
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If you recall Bris mcc tried to have "double the dirt" last year and it fell on its arse, this year though we all got there and had a hoot. The 'flat trackers' got some very good competition from the 'flat crosser'.
We'll be back next yr for sure. Actually looking at a XS650 flat tracker.
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are you putting pillion pegs on EML?
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Nope, I'll put Popeye on it- it'll be like a pimple on a melon and go like faaark, power to weight ratio of 101:1
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Here are the usual 4 - 19" choices for you - these girls are on 19" , my trackmaster ( purple one ) on speedways, white one has carlsie rear and goodyear front and my 51 bike is on the Pirelli MT53. The carlise and pirelli have ended up the best of them, for some reason its like an early trails intermediate pattern but seems to stick but also cuts through dirt soft track ( afternoon heats) the speed way sucks unless you have the HP to drive it and the goodyears just look cool, but alas when the tracks chopped up you just bog down or they float off course.
The whole trouble with these American style flat trackers is that they don't hook up on our style of track surface, no matter what tyre you use. When I was racing my Champion SC500 I tried everything as Freaky has described. When I got the bike it had 19" Carlilses all round but I went to a Dunlop trials 18" rear and it was an improvement. I tried a 21" by accident after I got a flat on the 19" Carlilse and it turned shitloads better but I didn't like the 'look'. Not that that should have anything to do with it but I'm a bit of a show pony with my bikes and I wanted the bike to remain true to its American heritage so the 19" went back on. I sold the bike to Edgar Phipps and I believe he has kept the 19" but has a 3.50 trials universal tyre on it. He improved the handling a lot by gussetting the flimsy Champion swingarm but it looks shitty by my eye.
Both Jonesy and I are building flat trackers, he his 850 Nourish Redline and me my 650 Benelli/Trackmaster (sort of).
Both of us want to keep the 19" American wheel look but with the way out tracks are, we're up against it tyre wise. I'm using 19" Morris mag wheels with my trusty old Carlilse on the front and a Maxxis on the rear. So is Jonesy but he's got a 21" front on his Redline, as does Pete with his 465 Yamaha project. Alans lacing up a 19" just to cover himself though.
He recently tried a Maxxis on Black Betty at Nepean and reports that it sucked. He's going to do some serious regrooving before the Nats to try and get some drive but I doubt it'll work on Raymond Terrace and reckon he'll revert to his Barum Speedway tyre or Michelin trials. It all comes down to looks in the end. If you want to keep the bikes looking authentic like Freakys nice little collection they won't really be competitive. To really hook up on a dirt track I reckon a motocross style 21/18 setup works far better but doesn't look so good. Because I'm an old slow poke and not building the bike to win titles, I'll go with the looks. Here's the Maxxis s pattern flat track tyre on Black Betty.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/NEPEAN%20AUG%2009%20001.jpg)
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i think black betty had plenty of wheel spin at nepean pre75 day.over 50s race i out gated him. i was 4th approaching the 1st corner and all i could hear was ajs esso reving it titts off behind me.i was on the 250 elsinore which is no slow bike.
cheers
jim
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My mate Mike Middleton showing that big fellas can have fun on a flat tracker. Here he is at the recent Chowchilla Short Track in California on his Triumph. Long term vintage motocrossers will remember Mike from his visit here for the '92 Ravenswood Nats where he won pre 65 on his showpiece BSA 750 Metisse. This Triumph is his deraked stock framed 'budget' racer Triumph Bonneville. Mike also races a trick framed Honda CRF 450 in the Expert Vet class.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/mike%20middleton%20Cowchilla%20trumpy.jpg)
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Getting the thread back on the subject, here's the latest update on Peter Rowlands Yamaha YZ/IT 465 flat tracker. Pete's nearly finished the pipe which uses DG dimensions and is about to start making the muffler. Once that's done he's getting into the forks, shortening the dampeners and springs which will effectively cut the travel by more than half and lower the bike accordingly. The bike will then be totally dismantled and painted, polished and detailed before reassembly. As you can see Peter doesn't shop much (any!)of his work out, preferring to do it all himself. This 'Jack of All Trades' attitude will bring the total cost of the bike in for around a thousand bucks. The bike will fit in perfectly with his infamousYamaha powered Maico the 'Yamaico' and his daughter Kristys green Bultaco Astro VMX feature bike. His attention to detail and quality work also saw his red Bultaco Mk4 "Boattail" Pursang featured in VMX#10.
Stay tuned for the next exciting episode........
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/flat%20track%20peter.jpg)
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great project Peter-an good on ya Firko for doing the feature.How strong is classic flat-track in US,Firko? Be great to go over and ride an event over there. 5 riders went from Griffith Club some years ago.Would our bikes be suitable?
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Thanks Pete, the vintage flat track scene is going along quite well in the USA, a lot healthier than here it seems ::)
Your Yamaha 650 would be allowed to race but may need some minor changes. A lot of guys use stock framed Yamaha XS650s but more often than not they derake the steering to around 26 degrees and set the pegs up a little different but overall you'd get away with what you've got, same with your Honda twin. Have a look at this site for an idea of what's going on over there.....http://www.vft.org/index.html (http://www.vft.org/index.html) Check out the classifieds, some really cheap stuff often comes up.
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how do you get awat with dics brakes as it has to be oem as per ma gcr to have them .your bikes are not oem.same as cliffs hagon they use other parts to make the bikes up.hagon make frame other people supply the motors.
Im not sure what your talking about but its all OEM for these models. Airhearts disks where standard on Bates hubs from 72 so its era proven and could throw a 7x4 trailer load of mags dated from 72 to anyone who wants to question the period correctness.
In regards to Cliff's bike, this is getting tired, if he bothered to use a correct era pre 75 model motor he wouldnt have an issue would we ? the rules state motor and frame Pre 75 other parts can be repro or from that period. my bikes are genuine pre 75 model made all the way.
Freaky
how come you dont run front brakes and whats with heavy rear disc brakes when a light drummy would do?
Why dont speedway bikes run any brakes at all ? if you going round in circles you wont need it, only if its got more than a 90 degree turn would you need to stop ? the rear is just a trim or to stop you hitting the wall after a race where as the speedway guys rub off on the right peg.
Dont know where do you get the idea the disks are heavy ? with a pad the size of a 50 cent peice they are hard and shitty, but light they most certainly are, paper thin. Plus you find me a rear braked hub i can pop the sprocket off in about 30 seconds by hitting the spinner off, or if the tyre wears on one side swap the brake disk over with the sprocket and run the tyre backside and in about 60 seconds and ill look at fitting one. IF you see these ali hubs you'll understand how it works. beSIDE TAHT THEY LOOK SHIT COOL !
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great project Peter-an good on ya Firko for doing the feature.How strong is classic flat-track in US,Firko? Be great to go over and ride an event over there. 5 riders went from Griffith Club some years ago.Would our bikes be suitable?
DOES A BEAR SHIT IN THE WOODS.
You'd be fine, but wouldnt waste you time taking yours though, you need one that been tech inspected and you could get a well set up ready to race xs750 anyway for $3,500 over there run it for a meet or 2 then onsell it for what you paid. Plus it would come with the Shell cams and all that other trick Ti stuff as well.
even some of the guys would lease you one, some US blokes just love to build em, bnot ride them so just pick up a ride that way for a round, they enter it and you ride ....... ;) rthink this is one of Hotshoe Todds units but you get the idea
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d88/munchboxlive/RFTankSeat.jpg)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d88/munchboxlive/XXRRcorner.jpg)
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that i was getting at is the gcrs say no disc brake unless it is ome.
a frame is not a complete bike.hagons are the same frame builders.
could you ride on of these at the nationals win and keep you win if there was a protest, on the basis that ma state no disc brakes pre75 unless ome ie rokon ect
cheers
jim
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You must be reading a differant moms to me.
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rule 18.5.0.4 d brakes
disc brakes as originally fitted by manufactures (rokon,dalesman and tyron/wassel)
just got my open lic last month they sent me a book 2009 manual of motorcycle sport
our phone chat sorted my info out
thanks
jim
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Once that's done he's getting into the forks, shortening the dampeners and springs which will effectively cut the travel by more than half and lower the bike accordingly.
Firko
Really looking forward to learning all about this procedure.
Thanks for the info so far. Lovin it!
Chris
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Latest update: The frame's been powdercoated black and reassembly has begun. After some hard thought Pete's decided to paint the bike Green and white, using leftover paint from his Astro project, thereby keeping the bike within the budget.
Peters done all of the powdercoating and painting himself as well as doing all of the plating using a Janes home plating kit. Now that the news that the Nats is going ahead is in Pete's stepping up the pace. Stay tuned.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/flat%20tracker%20peter%20paint.jpg)
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This is a great project. Pete does great work. Just wonder if the swingarm is up to a 465 on full noise tho. With the bracing for the monoshock removed it could be a bit of a flexy flier.
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rule 18.5.0.4 d brakes
disc brakes as originally fitted by manufactures
Read the rule before it 18.5.0.4 - A) - I assume B) is to claify it if you want to run an MX model in a DT class with modified out of period calipers.
I dont have an 09 moms on my desk but unless someone has changed the rules on period components its covered by that rule.
IF in Doubt refer to 18.6.0.2 and 03 - remember its not country or manufacturer specific, its DATE available, even TX 750's, Rd's etc had em in 73 if you want a represent a manufactureres model as a replica.
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enjoy this subject firko. keep it coming
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Here's todays IZ465 update in Pete's own words:
"Cut down the dampers tonight. Took about 5" out which leaves the forks with 41/2" travel. The forks I was going to use were a bit shorter but one of the tubes had a flat in it so I had to use a spare set. The tubes sit about 21/2" above the top triple tree but there's not much I can do about that, and it doesn't look too bad. Standard YZ 465 forks are about an 1" out the top, so it's not much different. I can take a spacer out and let them sag a little which means I can drop them a bit, but I'll see how the stance is once everything is together. Went through my paint stock tonight and I found some blue and white so I think I'll go with that (1/2 IT, 1/2 YZ). Next thing is to polish the fork legs and then assemble them, in between paint drying, and build the front wheel. Getting close now."
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/flat%20track%20peter%20dampers.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/flat%20treack%20peter%20update.jpg)
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Peters done all of the powdercoating ..... himself
That's interesting; how much heat does it take and how long does it have to 'bake'?
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Graeme, here's a line from an email from Peter.....
Waiting for the powder to dry only takes 15 minutes, and the plating takes 45 minutes, but it's cutting into the time lol.
I'm sure Peter can enlarge on that though..stay tuned.
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Hi Graeme,
I wasn't very specific to Firko - the frame is in enamel. I've powdercoated the footrests and brackets, gear lever, kickstarter, handlebar clamps etc. Powdercoating is great for these bits as it's quick, clean and produces a nice durable finish. After the part has been beadblasted and cleaned it's just a matter of applying the powder with the powdercoat gun and putting it in the oven at 400 deg F. Once the powder begins to flow, which only takes a minute or two, it takes about 15 minutes to cure. Once cured the part can be installed when it is cool enough to handle. I've just got an old St George oven that I use but a pie heater or similar that will go up to 400 deg would be fine.
Pete.
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This is a great project. Pete does great work. Just wonder if the swingarm is up to a 465 on full noise tho. With the bracing for the monoshock removed it could be a bit of a flexy flier.
Thanks for the comment JC. I did have some concerns about the swingarm as well, but it looks fairly strong and is very solid around the axle slots, and won't be subjected to the punishment of motocross, so I'll give it a run and see how it goes. I may have to make up some gussets if it proves to flex too much,
Pete
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Peters latest update :
"Forks are finished finally. The brake backing plate slot was worn so I had to build up the lug on the fork leg a little bit (have to get you to show me how to weld magnesium sometime). I've put the primary blue on the tank and seat, so next comes the light blue and white panels and then a coat of clear. I have finished most of the trinkets, so nothing really fiddly left to do. I have avoided making the spokes for the front wheel as it's a pain in the arse job, but I'll get on to it next. I'll drop the seat out to the motor trimmer this afternoon which should only take a day or two. I have a mate with a soda blaster who said he would do the motor for me, but he is having some problems so I may just clean it up and paint it. It really needs to go in soon as I have to finish the pipe mountings and muffler. With a bit of luck I should be able to give it a run next weekend to try and sort it before the titles.
Have to go to work now which is really cutting in to my bike building time!"
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/flat%20track%20peter%20bits.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/flat%20track%20Peter%20blue.jpg)
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Petes on a roll now. He's got some colour on the tank two tone blue and white, pretty cool I reckon. All it needs now is some stickers and a coat of clear and voila!.....one cool looking IZ 465 flat tracker. The engine finish is next, either soda blasting the cases or painting and then finishing the pipe mount, lace a front wheel and then put the whole thing back together. More soon.(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/flat%20track%20pete%20striping.jpg)
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Damn, he's shows as all up; in speed of construction, imagination, engineering; shit you name it and he's flogging us. :P
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Yeah, sure does. Very talented. Wish I lived next door Pete!
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Peter is indeed a good bike builder. Since the very early days of vintage motocross and dirt track he's continually floored us with his beautifully built machines and original slant on their construction and looks. For a glimpse into the quality of his bikes, check out his faultless Bultaco Mk4 Boattail Pursang resto on pages 3,4,6 and 10 VMX magazine #10 and the beautiful Bultaco Astro he built for his daughter Kristy on page 24 of VMX #31. As well, Peter owns the almost legendary 'Yamaico' MX250 Yamaha powered Maico that he's raced spasmodically since the mid 90s. As well as being a builder of quality bikes Pete's a damn fast racer who unfortunately doesn't get to race as often as he'd like as he spends a good portion of his time in the USA in his job as an engineer. He's also a founding member of Klub Kevlar and a good bloke.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/kristy3.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/kristy1.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/Yamaico.jpeg)
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The latest update in Peters words:
finally finished the front wheel and got the engine painted. Back up on to the stand now for the final pipe fitup and muffler fabrication. Tomorrow afternoon I'll get some tank stickers and will be able to clear the tank and seat Tuesday afternoon, weather permitting. Once that's done its' just making cables and fitting everything up and hopefully giving it a run next weekend. If it all works out I'll be a week ahead of schedule - luxury.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/1%20pete.jpg)
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TODAYS UPDATE FROM PETE
" Put the stickers on the tank and finally got some good enough weather to put the clear on. The pipe is finished and the muffler just needs to have the end cap made and then a mounting bracket and stay up to the seat loop made.. All the cables are made and fitted and the wiring is next. I made up a cable brake for the rear brake as the pipe would have been hard to tuck in with the brake rod there. I still have to make the brackets for the front number plate and then paint it and the side number plates. Still waiting on the seat from the motor trimmer, hopefully I'll get it before the weekend so I can give it a run. I'm still under the $1000 mark, but it's getting close. A can of chain lube might tip me over the edge"
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/peter%20flat%20tracker%204.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/peter%20flat%20tracker%206.jpg)
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For sale i have at least one spare copy of that yellow Yamaha tuners book as seen on the right of that bench, think it cover the "J" models, still i have a few differant Yamaha model Race tune books and they are the only ones i have ever seen with the Full colour foto's of the Spark plug visual chops, probally worht a scan and post next week if i remeber.
Over to the for sale section :O0
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IZ 465 FINISHED:
Peter's finished the budget project right on schedule. He took the bike for a ride up and down the road and declared it to be as quick as shit. Scary even! The bike took about 6 weeks to build using castoffs ald leftovers from old projects. Peter did nearly everything from welding, painting machining, electricals, cable making and nearly all of the other odd jobs in between.
The bike has come in under the proposed $1000 budget which proves that if you do as much work yourself this sport doesn't have to be expensive. Peter's also shown that just because your budget is low, your bike doesn't have to look like a piece of shit. A little forethought with paint and polish can produce a show standard bike for little outlay. Doc has proved that theory as well. Another point Pete's made with this bike is that it's OK to use a bit of artistic flair and build a hot rod. It's cool to venture outside the circle. How many people would pick the finished product as starting life as an IT465H? Not too many I'd reckon. The next episode in the progress of Peter Rowlands 'IZ' 465 will unfurl next weekend when it takes the track in the open evo and pre 80 class at the Raymond Terrace Nats.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/flat%20track%20peter%20finished%201.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/flat%20track%20peter%202.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/flat%20track%20Peter%20finished.jpg)
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super bitch'n 8)
that pipe looks as though it'll be a bit of a revver.
cool bike 8)
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Well Done Pete! I got a mate that could give you a run in buildin stuff real quick, witness Grasy's XL250 that won 25 lapper at Nepean recently-$500 piece of rubbish. Methinks it cost a bit more than a grand though, as a 4 stroke does.Grasy done it in a month also, hats off to youse.Its taken me 2 mths to prepare shit I already had.Love to see what ya doing next mth! 8)
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Been watching this thread with interest and Firko I am humbled you mentioned my name in the same paragraph as Peter but all I can say is WOW! 8) that bike looks absolutely spot on! I can only ever aspire ;)
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Doc, you've also shown that not only do you need to throw a shitload of money at a bike to get a decent result, you've also shown that with a bit of lateral thinking and elbow grease you can build a great looking bike. Like you, Peter uses a Janes plating kit to replate things like spokes and nuts bolts and little bits and bobs. My pet hate is people who go overboard with porting, exotic ignitions and trick pipes but leave their bikes with rusty rims and spokes, crap paint, mis matched parts and little attention to detail. These are the same people who jump up and defend vintage motocross when someone knocks our bikes as old shitboxes. I regualrly see some bikes at the races that I'd be ashamed to put on my trailer let alone admit I owned them. I believe presentation to be equally as important to performance. There are a couple of regulars on this forum who while being very nice people, their bikes look like wrecking yard fugitives. You and Peter have shown that there's no excuse for that attitude.
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if it goes good, looks like shit and beats a show pony, then Nice!
if it looks likes shit and goes like shit, it is shit.
Whats wrong with a working class looking bike?
congratulations for building a good looking budget bike Peter btw
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Whats wrong with a working class looking bike?
Nothing. It all depends on what you mean by working class? I could counter your question with what's wrong with trying that little bit harder to make your bike look presentable? I guess to some people it's the ride that's important and to others it's the bike.
It's a bit like wearing a dirty pair of overalls to a wedding.
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Firko not every body can lace a wheel or weld a frame if you have some bloke that wants to start out and has no friends that are into old bikes the local bike shops will laugh at him if he said I need a part for my pre 75 bike.You have been around bikes for a long time and a lot of your friends would be the same not everybody has that advantage.jimson
PS I think Peter has done a great job the bike looks cool
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I'm not talking bling chrome and shiny paint here Jimson. I'm just saying that it's not hard to use a $4 spray can and a can of Simichrome polish to get what you've got a neat as possible. That's why I've tried to get the message accross that it's not the money you spend, it's the time you spend getting the little things as good as you can. Money and mechanical ability aren't a major factor.
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if the bride and groom are wearing dirty overalls then so am I
I see your point firko, not trying to stir. But I do prefer to see solid working bikes that are rough than show ponies. if the bike works well and is at the pointy end of the field only then would i consider tarting her up(by pointy end I mean to the best of the ability of the rider and bike). Young families affect time available as well
Scott
p.s. Jimson, I have never laced a wheel until last week. i had a go, got it close and then asked for help truing the up and had it all sorted. Thanks Lozza. Never will I be handing off this work in the future. The best way is to jump in and swim. Don't be afraid to ask some of the older road race guys for a hand if you need to either, some of them are pretty handy.
p.p.s If anyone wants a wheel laced or trued I am a 5 minute expert now, so pm your jobs you want done ;D
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if it looks likes shit and goes like shit, it is shit.
No, no, no; it just has untapped potential ;) ;D.
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I'm very much biased in regards to the presentation of my bikes/projects regardless of their worth, potential or desirability. A detail is one of the cheapest things you can do and you may even notice that crack in the frame or rim before it goes all pear shaped ;)
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A really beautiful bike. Obviously Peter has a good eye.
I think that is where some project go awry, and where money spent doesn't end up meaning anything in the end.
Doc's bikes look great because he has an eye for proportion, detail, etc. like Peter. The money thing is in some ways irrelevant. Obviously, both guys in question (and apologies if this is making anyone feel uncomfortable) like doing their own work (and have the ability) and know how to get it looking right.
Others may not like, or have the time to do their own work (or the know-how) but still manage to get the whole package looking right because they know what looks right and farm the work out to people who can do it properly.
Anyway, love the bike. Has me thinking about a flat track bike as a future project. I've got a spare YZ125 I can chop up ;D
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Well done Peter..great bike. Good luck with the nats...
Let us know how you go.
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Thanks to everyone who's taken the time to follow this thread. I appreciate the encouragement and support. Special thanks to Firko for posting the progress reports. It's been a fun project, but I might try and allow a little more time on the next one. I'm not really expecting too much from the bike on it's first outing, as I haven't had a chance to sort it out and it's a bit of an unknown quantity, but I am looking forward to the weekend, particularly catching up with everyone and having a few cool drinks on Saturday night,
Pete.
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G'day Peter your bike looks real nice 8) what did you make the seat base out of ? and how did you attach the seat to the base ? jimson
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Hi Jimson,
The seat base is just made from body steel welded together and the seat is 2mm aluminium sheet with some high density foam from Clark rubber. I secured the seat to the base using nutserts into the aluminium sheet, which, if you haven't seen them, are threaded cylinders which are installed using a tool similar to a pop rivet gun. Sheet metal workers use them - they're really good for putting a thread in any thin gauge material. I also used them for the number plate mounts and rear dirt shield mounts.
Pete.
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Peter the under side of the seat base is that metal to metal as in the seat base sitting on the frame or did you put a under lay of rubber under it and is the base fixed to the frame by the bolt that holds the fuel tank and a bolt on the middle of the rear loop sorry for all the questions just geeting ideas.jimson
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Hi Jimson,
I 've got strips of 6mm thick insertion rubber between the seat base and the frame loop. The front doesn't mount on the tank mount, it's got its own mounting point and there is another one at the rear of the frame loop. Both of these mounts also have rubber washers between them and the seat. It's all nice and solid, with the rubber just dampening it a little,
Pete.
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Thanks Peter I like your project and the way it turned out. Thanks for the inspiration. jimson
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Any news/photos on how this beasty performed..??
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I wish we could report a fairytale ending to the budget build with Pete blitzing his class and taking home the trophy and the trophy girl but sadly it didn't happen. Some unfortunate jetting problems saw the engine nipped up enough to cause Pete to park the bike to prevent any further damage. Before pulling the plug, the bike proved that it'll be a formidable weapon with some solid holeshots on the opposition. Peter reports the bike handles like it was on rails except for the usless Taiwanese trials tyre Peter used to keep the bike under the 1k budget limit. A Michelin will be on the bike for its next public appearance. After parking the IZ465 Peter rode Herbies ATK604 on Sunday to some nice mid pack finishes on an untried combo also in need of some sorting.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/dirt%20track%20Nats%20005.jpg)
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damn shame...a bit too LEAN & mean
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Although Pete will no doubt be a bit disappointed that the bike didn't see the weekend out, he shouldn't be to hard on himself because the bike was immaculate and his attention to detail is second to none.
Given it was the maiden voyage, little gremlins are always going to be an issue.
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Looks as good in the flesh as it does in the shots on this site. If he told me it took him a year or two to build I would still be mightly impressed. But to think it came together in the time it did and at that cost............unbelievable effort.
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I reckon all would have been sweet pete, if you had of had one spare day up your sleeve first to fine tune and dial it in. Any how don't loose heart. Look at those space shuttles with all the technoligy in the world, one of them only lasted seven seconds ::) with nothin left to sort out latter ::)
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Met Peter on Saturday , Great bloke to talk to and easy going & obviously VERY cluey. Best thing I liked was his God damn MAGERITA maker Saturday arvo & that $1000.00 bike looked trick well done.