OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Vinduro => Topic started by: IT490K on March 20, 2009, 11:41:42 am
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I have looked at the Orange event and that is what sparked my idea.
It is however VERY costly to enter the event as an 'individual' your looking at $525.
Not to mention your bike, fuel & parts costs for the 4 days.
The reason I mentioned it is that I think it would be a real test of man and machine.
A test that I would like to have a crack at.
I am no 'hot rider' myself so I would be more focussed on completing the event! LOL
That being said I would be going as fast as I possibly could.
It would need to be a planned approach aiming for next years A4DE wherever that may
be. Orange was quite appealing as it is near my home town of Cowra but there isn't
enough time prior to the Orange event to organise everything.
To cover the costs of partaking in such an event I would be looking to put together a
"Team" of riders and then seek sponsorship to cover the costs.
As a vintage contingent we would be able to get a mountain of press coverage for the
sponsors, and I think the concept of old vs brand new will be received well.
Jock
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I'd be in that. Would we all have to ride the same brand of bike?
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Count me in
I will ride it in a vintage team with you guy's, as long as i can pick my ride.
I have never ridden a four day event only two day events, i reckon i could do the four days as long as the old bike holds up its end of the bargain.
(Pete) you want crew for me.
Shoey
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From what I've seen the trails and the trail times are pretty easy (to satisfy the police and the land managers so the trails don't get ripped up). The events are decided at the special tests which include 'timed to the second' cross country and moto cross tests.
I think well prepared ;) :D old bodies and old bikes should go the distance. Ask around ;).
You will have to be an A grade motocrosser and/or 'leave your brains in the toolbox' to make an impression on the fast boys in the special tests, bikes notwithstanding ;D.
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If you guys can get it together I am sure I can get you some publicity both here in OZ and overseas.
It would make a great story no matter what the result [so long as you don't colapse and die on the Prologue].
Keep us up to date with your plans
VMX42
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I think also that you have to 'qualify' for the 4 days. Ask around. Regardless it would be highly advisable to do a few club and 1 and 2 day'ers as a shake down etc.
The more I think about it the more merit I think it has. There may be government money available. There's that latest campaign about "the more you gain the more you have to lose". Surely some encouragement ($'s) from them and some publicity for the campaign would be symbiotic.
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I like the positivity! Originally I was thinking of entering a Yamaha IT team and seeking
sponsorship from Yamaha. It would be ideal to enter one make of bike so that the team
had consistency in appearance. There is also a great enduro history behind the Yamaha
IT brand and I'm a sucker for the old IT's ;)
Depending on numbers and who would be up for it we may have no other choice but to
enter a 'mixed make' team.
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If it was a 'mixed make' team what would we call ourselves?
It would have to be something with the word "Vinduro" in there... :)
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I would be intersted in being involved, Iv'e always wanted to run one more four day before I got too old.
Somehow though I grew old when I wasn't looking :o
Entries have always been dear, I just looked up the supp regs from the 88 I4DE & it was $100.00. In todays language it felt like $500.00 at the time.
I have a 88 KDX 200, it's probably modern compared to what you guys are thinking of. Restoring it has been on the backburner a year now. I have fond memories of this model as I rode the 86 four day in S.A. on one. (the models were the same 86-88)
When I get it sorted I intend to run a modern one day Enduro on it as a reality check. It would be a bit of a pipe dream to ride it in a fourday, as quite often my head writes checks my body can't cash.
The last enduro I rode was about 4 years ago, after which my wife made me promise to do some training before I rode another as I was bloody knackered after the event. I never trained & haven't ridden another since.
It takes a lot of energy to get through 4 days, both mentally & physically so you would need to be on your game.
So while I am interested I would need to start training now to be in any decent shape for next year.
Where is the event next year, any one know?
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Steady on vmx42 no ones collapsing man. 33 is hardly old and I currently run about 40kms a week sometimes more. We'll be fine. Jock would be the baby of the group. An all IT assault would be good. What is the format for a team. Do we all ride each day?
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Do we all ride each day?
Yep!
It would be 30 years since I've seen the GCR's for a 4 day ::) but I think they're pretty much the same. Team of 3, minimum collective score wins. And I think the team has got to be in at least 2 capacity classes. Don't quote me :P ;D.
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Im 48 this year.
Fit , i train 6 days and also run 15kms a week.
Im up for it . It would be a memorable experience.
Dont forget the duck tape
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I think there was talk of Oyster Bay MCC entering a team on IT200's this year, will check it out and report back ;).
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Sounds like a great idea.
I'm too much of an enduro novice to jump straight into the 4-day, but I'd be happy to come and help out (subject to all of the usual family/work/rest of life pressures allowing me to).
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What a great idea 8)
You could always give Geoff Ballard a ring, he maybe able to help out in the special tests on his Mega 2 ;)
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I would be keen to do the 4 day "Vinduro style", I have competed in the 98 A4DE and the big one ISDE 98.
Damo
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Sooooooo, who's gunna be team manager :D - we've got the interest, we've got the potential, we just need the money and organisation ::).
Who's idea was this now.... Jock, anyone seen Jock lately ;D.
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Here are the relevant documents, all that are interested download them and
have a good read so that we are all on the same page.
A4DE Supp Regs download (http://yamahait.com.au/files/2009 A4DE Supp Regs_11Feb09.pdf)
Entry Form download (http://yamahait.com.au/files/Entry Form for A4DE _2_.pdf)
Club Entry Form download (http://yamahait.com.au/files/A4DE Club Entry Form_11Feb09.pdf)
Trade Entry Form download (http://yamahait.com.au/files/A4DE Trade Entry Form_11Feb09.pdf)
Cheers
Jock
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Here are the relevant documents, all that are interested download them and
have a good read so that we are all on the same page.
A4DE Supp Regs (http://yamahait.com.au/files/2009 A4DE Supp Regs_11Feb09.pdf)
Club Entry Form (http://yamahait.com.au/files/A4DE Club Entry Form_11Feb09.pdf)
Trade Entry Form (http://yamahait.com.au/files/A4DE Trade Entry Form_11Feb09.pdf)
Cheers
Jock
Ah, you are showing all the hallmarks Jock ;) ;D.
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Ah, you are showing all the hallmarks Jock ;) ;D.
I'm not sure we need a "Team Manager" but I'll do my bit to try and make it happen!
Jock
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I noticed a few YZ 2 strokes. In years gone by, all enduro bikes had to be road registered as parts of the course were on public roads like seen at Orange. How do they get around that these days?
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Zorroz,
I have been reading(other website) this morning the changes and have seen a change in modern motocross in the last 10 years,(some people will probably say longer).. 8)
I believe its all about money,promotion,marketing and getting larger numbers entered.
Its all show and shine now, 8) as you can see with the Yamaha mover in the about pics-
how much more Yamaha signage can they have hanging off the bus. :-\
Don't get me wrong the big events are great,but the mateship isn't there as in VMX.
Different zones ;D
I think I'll be staying with VMX for a few years yet ;D
cheers Alison
ps thanks for the pics though Jock,sure is a different world.
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several ways. i think most officials would be switched on so i doubt there would be dodgy illegal regos. not sure what its like for all states but you can get permits for MX bikes sometimes when you fit lights etc. Also you can go the route of getting full ADR compliance but its very expensive. In SA its not too hard to do to get MX bikes on the road but not many people do it these days. everyone wants a WR250F or a 450 yam or KTM..
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You don't need rego anymore. Nearly all the pros use motocross bikes with lights attatched to look like enduro bikes. The lights either run off a small battery or an enduro ignition system and only have to work for scrutineering and at the end of the event.
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I think the organisers take care of all the necessary permits and insurances.
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I think it's to cover costs and also because it's international some of fees probably go to the FIM.
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I've done a few 4Days over the years and would LOVE to tackle one on an old bike - mind you, they can be tough enough on a NEW weapon. Let's keep the ball rolling on this - I want in!
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Found this old thread-so how's the planning going-are we up for it still or is the whole thing stilborn?
Sounds like a shit hot idea and one that would catch on as there is no reason Vinduro can't be as big as VMX.
By the way, are there any Vinduros coming up in SEQ or Nth NSW? as October looks bare and I'll need to give the XR200 a run before it gets too hot.
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There might also be the option of riding the event as a clubman, I think that's what it's called. Correct me if I'm wrong. I was told that you can turn up at any enduro event and ride the course after the competitors. No entry fee. You just have to pay a few bucks. That could always be an option if you don't want to tangle with the rest of the modern bikes. Providing the whole idea behind it is to just ride the course and finish it rather than compete.
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Hang on , "ride the course and finish it" isn't that competing in an enduro?? lol
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There might also be the option of riding the event as a clubman, I think that's what it's called. Correct me if I'm wrong. I was told that you can turn up at any enduro event and ride the course after the competitors. No entry fee. You just have to pay a few bucks. That could always be an option if you don't want to tangle with the rest of the modern bikes. Providing the whole idea behind it is to just ride the course and finish it rather than compete.
hey Bern, in '97 at the Manjimup A4DE a clubman class was run, but for some unknown reason never took off (lack of promoter support?).
AFAIK, the ONLY way to ride a Four Day is enter and ride the bugger. Not paying entry fees would (and SHOULD) preclude you from entering private property (no entry, no insurance) - no farmer is going to leave himself open to prosecution. TB
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WOW, looks like it would be great fun, I think the hodaka would struggle.
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NFI if its still happening, but some open enduro events (and the Safari) used to offer a trailride over the enduro course - can't remember the name of the class though... :-[
There was an entry fee (cheaper than the competitive entry), and was intended to be a non-threatening introduction into the enduro world. Basically, guys could go and ride the course and see whether they could cope or not, without the pressure of competition.
I'd be up for such a thing, if its offered at the 4-day.
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Nathan,
I don't think the trail times (even at the 4 day) are that hard so entering as a competitior would be not much different to entering as a rally competitior. The special stage times may be well down on the guns but you're not going to hour out with a slow special stage time. I'm planning on doing the A4DE in 2011 (30 years after I entered my first one - and far enough away to get the fitness up and enter some club and state enduros over the next 18 months to build up the necessary experience).
Mark
P.S. I would never enter this event on a vintage enduro bike - I don't rekon many people (Geoff Ballard excluded) would get past the first day - I love the old bikes but when the going gets tough the smart jump on a sweet '09 or '10 ride.
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P.S. I would never enter this event on a vintage enduro bike - I don't rekon many people (Geoff Ballard excluded) would get past the first day
OK someone please prove this theory is wrong ;D
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P.S. I would never enter this event on a vintage enduro bike - I don't rekon many people (Geoff Ballard excluded) would get past the first day - I love the old bikes but when the going gets tough the smart jump on a sweet '09 or '10 ride.
Why? Is it the technical difficulty level of the course, or the ability to stay within late time?
I had been assuming that nowdays the courses aren't that technically difficult, provided you had more time to complete it, without late time worries.
This was why I was interested in the rally class.
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P.S. I would never enter this event on a vintage enduro bike - I don't rekon many people (Geoff Ballard excluded) would get past the first day - I love the old bikes but when the going gets tough the smart jump on a sweet '09 or '10 ride.
Wrong!, Considering there would be limited restrictions on the Vintage bikes, suspesion upgrades would be a piece of cake, so Trail times would be easily acheivable and the special tests would be class related, so The whole idea is very feasable.
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I agree that it would be feasable to do a A4DE on a pre '85 bike (although to keep it real you would prefer to see the entrant on a bike with period brakes and suspension). But from a personal point of view the event would be a big enough challenge as a 47 year old on my '09 KTM 300 let alone trying it on my '78 KTM. Having said that I would love to see one or more vintage enudro bikes at the A4DE next year (it would pay to compete in at least on one enduro on the bike to test everything out).
Mark
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P.S. I would never enter this event on a vintage enduro bike - I don't rekon many people (Geoff Ballard excluded) would get past the first day - I love the old bikes but when the going gets tough the smart jump on a sweet '09 or '10 ride.
Why? Is it the technical difficulty level of the course, or the ability to stay within late time?
I had been assuming that nowdays the courses aren't that technically difficult, provided you had more time to complete it, without late time worries.
This was why I was interested in the rally class.
???
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Why? Is it the technical difficulty level of the course, or the ability to stay within late time?
I had been assuming that nowdays the courses aren't that technically difficult, provided you had more time to complete it, without late time worries.
This was why I was interested in the rally class.
Nathan - Not many Four Day Enduro's are that technical these days. The whole idea is to get people riding them, rather than being "scared" of enduring 4 days of hell. Sure, environmental & climatic conditions can change that, but that's the nature of the beast!
FWIW, forget the idea of a Rally class - I just don't see it as an option that the promoters will embrace. Besides, the whole idea is "man and machine Vs time and terrain". ;)
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How about just one Vinduro in Qld first (I havn't heard of any yet this year), then maybe do a two day. Then look at a 4 day.
If you really want a challenge head to SA and do the 24hr Trial on your own or as a team.They accept older bikes and even have a class/classes for them.
I really think the Vinduro concept is great but am I in the wilderness?
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Back when I did my first 4 day event everyone rode 80's enduro bikes because well it was the 1980's and while it would still be possible to do the A4DE today on a 70's or 80's bike I wonder if many people would want to do such a long event on a bike without smooth power delivery, plush suspension and disc brakes (plus a ready supply of parts to fix the bike after the event). At the last Vic. vinduro event I did a few laps on my SWM 175 and a few on my new KTM 300 (I took the new bike when I went out with the video camera). The two main points I noticed between the bikes was the braking (one or two finger stopping versus a handful of brake lever to slow, not stop, the SWM) and the delivery of the power (both two strokes and both with a good quantity of power but the KTM was so much smoother and easier to ride). Now this isn't a critisism of the older bikes it's just that I can see why the vinduo format that Peter Drakeford and the organising clubs have in Victoria is working so well with a 20 to 30 minute lap of varied trails (none of them too hard, although the rocks on some of the hills at Benella created a few challenges) and the riders able to do as many laps as they like at what ever speed they want to (Steve Juzva, just to use one example, was riding his vinduro mount faster than most guys could ride a new bike). The charm with vinduros is the riding along with the relaxed approach, social stuff and the interesting array of bikes to look at (much more so than at the say the last Stockmans Rally where it was pretty much a sea of 500 identical, late model KTM's, WRF's and a few Honda's). The modern enduro isn't the bike and rider destoying event (not that the Four Day really ever was) of years gone by but it is still a lot of riding over sometimes very cut up trails (as was the case at last years A4DE).
All said and done however it would be great to see a classic enduro bike enter and finish the major Australian enduro.
Mark
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There's no doubt that modern bikes work better - but that's missing the point of riding an old bike.
If you go out and finish last on a new bike, then you'll be viewed as a gumby twat.
But if you finish on an old bike, then you're still a bit of a legend - and if you beat anyone, then you're a deadset legend.
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Hit the nail on the head there Nathan, and the bit about missing the point, I couldn't agree with you more.
Cheers Mick.
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I get the point and agree totally Nathan - finish the four day on an a vinduro bike and you are a legend.
Mark
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How about just one Vinduro in Qld first
EML
Why wait for some one to run a Vinduro for you. Check out the Dalby Moto rides, these have some of the best enduro loops in Oz. You can go at your own pace and there are plenty of old bikes do them.
http://www.dalbymoto.com.au/index.php?cmd=trailNews&go=true (http://www.dalbymoto.com.au/index.php?cmd=trailNews&go=true)
Cheers
Noel
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Noel, we're off to Dalby to shoe off the sidecars next month so will check it out then.
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Just looked up next years event, it's on the same weekend as the VMX nats.
It's in Portland NSW.
I don't remember it being in the same state 2 years in a row before.
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Thread revival!
I just got a call from someone who wants to enter a Vintage Team in the 2014 A4DE.
I wonder if anyone is keen?
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Hell yes.
I've started training already, getting the body into shape by dieting and exercise. This morning I weighed under 100kg; the first time in a loooong time!
At this stage the only bike I own that I would consider riding in a 4 day is the 87 model WR400 as I'm not sure I could fettle the AE500 well enough to finish. (I was also considering buying a modern bike to ride as they will be gentler on my 52 year old body)
What would you ride?
I believe its in Dungog but I don't know the time of year as yet, any idea?
Rego: I believe you can get a permit type registration?
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Yes talking to Geoff Ballard is a great idea He would be able to steer you in the right direction.
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Just checked the MA site; A4DE is provisionally scheduled for 11-16 August.
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Where is the 4 day next year ?
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Where is the 4 day next year ?
Dungog, NSW I've heard.
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you heard right gloucester / dungog area and i am currently in the garage looking my 1988 wr430 husky that i believe according to the guy i bought it off it run in the one at cessnock was that 92? just needs a couple of new wheel bearings and shout it some new tread and a bit of tlc and shes ready to roll the boys at heaven / buladelah were gracious enough to let us use it at the vinduro recently and it didnt miss a beat , except for one flat tyre , so i could be in see how a few training sessions go ... drop us a line if you want to have a team , branchy( i will go to the chemist tommorow and and get a fresh batch of happy pills because i must not been thinking when replying to this post)
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Thread revival!
I just got a call from someone who wants to enter a Vintage Team in the 2014 A4DE.
I wonder if anyone is keen?
yeah I'd be keen, bikes ready to go
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Rose colored classes indeed. A few things to consider. Dungog has large mountains= very big hills.
Cost it costs a bloody lot to do the 4 day say around 4k + bike. Old bikes break all the time new bikes break at the 4 day= unlikely to finish.Old blokes on old bikes go last at the 4day so the ruts are bar deep and the whooops endless. You would need deep full pockets and to be so over prepared that you old bike would need to be better than new. I hope you finish and enjoy yourselfs.
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I'm keen. I've done about 14/15 odd 4 days. Lots of fun. First one was on a KDX175!!! and a heap on KDX 200's G Ballard did a six day about 5 years ago on an air cooled KDX200 and finished I believe. Bikes will do it no worries, It will be more about the rider being fit enough to keep on time. MX bikes get permits to run on the roads, and usually organized for you, but you pay. I'm trying to get a vintage class,pre 90 or whatever, maybe 95, any capacity, in our state title rounds next year to open the racing up to more people who cannot afford the latest bikes.. Think it would be a good thing.
I would not have any problem running a KDX200 or similar in a 4 day. Would think you would want to make it a pre 90 bike for a 4 day, to give the averge guy a shot at finishing. Or you couls ask them to put in a 2 day class for vets on vets!!!
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Rose colored classes indeed. A few things to consider. Dungog has large mountains= very big hills.
Cost it costs a bloody lot to do the 4 day say around 4k + bike. Old bikes break all the time new bikes break at the 4 day= unlikely to finish.Old blokes on old bikes go last at the 4day so the ruts are bar deep and the whooops endless. You would need deep full pockets and to be so over prepared that you old bike would need to be better than new. I hope you finish and enjoy yourselfs.
So you're not in then?
The hills haven't gotten any bigger, so that's not really a problem.
A fully rebuilt old bike is basically new; obviously you need to prepare the bike well if you want to finish. (Husky 400's are pretty reliable and easy to ride)
Fair comment about ruts and whoops when starting last. It's something I've been considering, you don't necessarily have to enter in the 'Veterans' (35+) or 'Masters' (45+) classes you could enter in E1,2 or 3. But to gain a real benefit you would want to ride in the E1 class. These young guys don't roll over anything, its just wind on the throttle and dig a big rut.
So if you prepare the bike well you come face to face with the biggest hurdle - the preparation of the body, for anyone that hasn't tackled a 4 day before you need to be extremely fit. For those that have you know all about how tough is gets to get out of bed each morning. The good news is that its in August so there is plenty of time to train (not to put off starting, but to get fit :) ) and there are many rounds of the AORC and hopefully the NSW series prior to the A4DE to assess your ride fitness and bike preparation for that matter. This year in NSW, you could trail ride the series (inc AORC rounds) for less cost if you wanted to, which would be good for practice, unless a plastic trophy is important to you.
As for money - what was the entry fee this year? Why leave it for the kids to spend when you're gone?
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Without trying to pour water on the idea I raced an 87 Husky at the 4 day in 88 and it broke strange parts like the front disk, motor mount bolts and rear hub and this was a new bike. A late 80's KDX 200 with mid 90's forks and brake setup would be my idea if I went Vintage.
Much respect for anyone who has a go.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zLJVsURYR8 Hey guys take a look at this and let us know your thoughts.
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already planning in my head , mate what an opportunity it's on our doorstep even as a support person for "team vinduro" about to speak to some young guns who have done the last half a dozen and their mechanics and support team later this week ,get the nitty gritty on the event, maybe a show of hands for rider's who will be up for it , weapons of choice own or supplied , tool men, even a bit of sponsorship , and a soild support team
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zLJVsURYR8 Hey guys take a look at this and let us know your thoughts.
Looks like a great venue, and the riding looks good as well. thanks for putting the linkup.
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Any updates on this venture?
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Had a few dramas with bike that I purchased for the event, is currently in the hands of Dept of fair trading will reveal more when case has been finalised in the meantime been busy organising alternate bike for the event .Have a mate (rural counsellor) chasing corporate sponsorship which if we raise enough will commence a pilot program in some small towns on the Mid North Coast that involves having semi trained people to handle cases until a fully trained Mental health worker can consult with client. In the interim keep training and spreading the word . regards Relfy