OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Bike Talk => Topic started by: TM BILL on October 25, 2008, 06:19:34 pm
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What production motocrosser most made the previous years model totally obsolete ?
For me it would have to be the 1981 RM 125X , the realese of this model totaly made the T model ( already the class leader ) obsolete. Water cooling and the full floater system not only left its older cousin way behind it also caught the opposition off gaurd.
I believe that no bike production bike before or since the realese of the X model has had such an impact on the previous model.
Anyone know different :)
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H,HH,HMmmmm, you sound like a Suzuki fan ;)so I should point out that The YZ125G was far better than the RM125T, I dumped a 125T for a 125G half season and there was no comparison between the two, YZ won hands down. However the RM125X was a bolt from the blue and was a class act!
I think that the '78 CR250 absolutely demolished the '77 Model CR250 without a doubt one of the biggest leaps forward in MX evolution.
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What about the TM125/RM125 transition? Suzuki's first production MXer which bore no resemblance to a hotted-up trailbike.
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I'll join Bill and go with the RM125x. That bike was so much faster and better suspended than it's air cooled twin shock brother.
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I'll join Bill and go with the RM125x. That bike was so much faster and better suspended than it's air cooled twin shock brother.
Agreed, a turning point in motocross, either keep up or fold.
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since it appears it's the single shock linkage type rear suspension that created the biggest single leap in MX design, exactly who's design was it? Suzuki, Kawasaki or neither?? Do we have learned members with the correct answers? Personally I am unsure to this day ;)
don't ya love it when some ass answers a question with a question ;D
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I think Kwaka had linkage suspension in 1980.
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kawasaki i reckon. someone else will know this for sure but i thought there was a 1980 KDX 175 with unitrack in 1980, but perhaps only in USA ???
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Yep Kawasaki first with production linkage suspension 1980, Lackey had Uni track on his works bike in 79.
Difference was Suzukis worked ;D
Those KDX 175s were ferkin horny , we had highly modified DT 175s and PE 175s, a rich kid up the block dad bought him a KDX 175. The Pommy models had Aluminium tanks that looked very factory 8) that KDX made our bikes look very dated .
I think Docs question was who Invented the linkage suspension system not who realeased it first.
Its well documented that Mr Tilkens invented the monoshock ( however HRD vincent had a simillar system on road bikes way earlier )and that Roger de Coster tried to get Suzuki to buy the patents in 72, as history shows Suzuki passed it up and Yamaha and mr Anderson took it and Joels title with it :o
However who invented the linkage system ?
Does anyone remember Roger running the Ribi forks on his RN 400 in the 79 GPs , apparantly didn,t go down well in Hamamatsu any more than Lackey running Simons forks on his championship winning RN 500 in 82 :)
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Thanks Bill, I was more interested in who actually designed the lever/linkage suspension and when. It seems to date back quite a while though not as far back as monoshock. I agree the Yamaha monoshock design was pretty much a rip off of much earlier ideas on models such as the early 50's Vincent HRD as in the pic. (http://www.predock.com/Things/vincent.jpg) pretty sure the Vincent was not the first either but searching beyond 1950's gets a little sketchy for me as it's well and truley before my time. Here's a little pic of the Ribi front end on RD's bike. I am sooooo glad the idea was never a raging success as like the RC Honda fitted with the same they look butt ugly and I'd hate to imagine the cost of rebuilding all thouse linkages or heaven forbid..crashing and bendind it!! :(
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Not the prettiest piece of technology is it? :-\
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im gunna say the yz125e it was so good they wont let it in pre 78 :D
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The '81 Maico 490 made the '80 model 440 look like the piece of badly designed crap that it was. A lot of punters gor stuck with '80 models, myself included. Even in todays vintage racing enviroment the '80 model is universally hated and the '81 model is....well, you all know their reputation.
Ross....Why is the VB Montesa illegal for pre 78?
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As much as it pains me to say it, probably the YZF400. Made all 2 strokes obsolete.... for now!
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Nobody has pointed out the first CR125 yet?!
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As I understand it, the VB360 Montesa, both 77 & 78, are allowed to race in the US, unmodified in their equivalent pre 77 class. Why not us?
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That is probably because the Oz pre '78 class rules were almost a word for word copy of the AHRMA Historic ( pre '78 ) class rules . The US rules were updated a while ago to include the '77 & '78 VB Montesas , but the MA rules have not followed the changes . I still think that the suspension limit for this class should have been set at 10 inches , not 9 inches . There were quite a few bikes produced in 1977 with more than 9 inches of suspension travel & you should not have to modify them back to the inferior standards of other manufacturers who were lagging behind at the time .
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still think that the suspension limit for this class should have been set at 10 inches , not 9 inches . There were quite a few bikes produced in 1977 with more than 9 inches of suspension travel & you should not have to modify them back to the inferior standards of other manufacturers who were lagging behind at the time
I agree. Mark has correctly spotted that the AHRMA rules have been amended but the MA carbon copy has yet to follow.
I think that the limit should be set at 10" for the reason that it's more beneficial for the sport for those bikes with lesser suspension to modify up to the 10" limit than to ban those bikes with too much suspension. It just opens the class to more variety.
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you guys are spot on it should be a 10 inch rule 8)
huskys are too long as well
and for 1 inch it should be changed to 10
stupid having to restrict travel on forks
to be legal >:(
i think a lot of other euro bikes are ten as well ???
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Plus it means that the confusing and pointless guff about "Some 77 model bikes are not eligible" (yeah? Name them?) can be removed.
Its not only Euro bikes that have over 9" of travel in 77. ;)
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Immagine if the twin cylinger ribi frunt end cr had made production ,that is such a "out there"bike!!
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Nobody has pointed out the first CR125 yet?!
Right on, it was cheap, way faster than anything else-stock-it handled great and you could get one anywhere. The first time I was present when Dad bought a new bike-his brother in law bought one. We stuffed it in the RV-and halfway to the house turned around-Dad bought the last one on the floor( that day-even in Louisiana they had a tom of them). Never again a competitve non Japanese 125 after this-really this bike made the 125 class big-riders who had "moved up" to 250s and open raced 125s again since this bike was so good. Why does it not get the icon status of other bikes.
Hell, I'm a Euro bike fan, but have to think this is THE most iconic mx bike ever.
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Nobody has pointed out the first CR125 yet?!
Thats beacause the question was what production motocrosser made the previous years model obsolete ?
The first CR was the first in a new range so there was no previous model to superceed.
The RM125X was the 8th generation RM125 M, S, A, B, C, N, T, X
No question the Elsinores bought MX to the masses but i dont believe they are what this thread is about.
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What about the TM125/RM125 transition? Suzuki's first production MXer which bore no resemblance to a hotted-up trailbike.
I would like to find an old copy of I think Australian dirt bike mag that had as a headline "THE RM 125 HOW MUCH BETTER CAN IT GET"
Well at least I am sure that is what it said ???
Shane
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Thats beacause the question was what production motocrosser made the previous years model obsolete ?
Oh, right...
YZ125C, G and K were all huge steps foward over their older incarnations (though the K's on the list mostly because the J was so unloved).
YZ250G (and again, the K should probably be there because the J....).