OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: maxvmx on February 10, 2016, 06:42:48 pm
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Perth just broke a 83 year record for consecutive days over 40 degrees! So does that mean in 1933 we had people saying that unless we reduce our carbon emissions we're all buggered?
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Back in the old days people were more fact driven. ("It's hot today, like yesterday.")
These days the majority are driven by emotion and hysteria. (Both feed by emotive and hysterical press and "social media".
When the next cyclone hits Brisbane, it will be clear evidence that the world is doomed unless we "do something"! (The previous cyclones that Brisbane has suffered will be like Perths 83yo record). Vomit.
Try and keep up :P
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You know, long ago we used to have a few discussions about things not vintage dirtbike related on here and I think the general feedback was "no thanks". Especially things like Global Warming where we just go round in circles. Bit like Evo rules discussions.
Might be best to leave this topic alone I reckon.
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You know, long ago we used to have a few discussions about things not vintage dirtbike related on here and I think the general feedback was "no thanks". Especially things like Global Warming where we just go round in circles. Bit like Evo rules discussions.
Might be best to leave this topic alone I reckon.
Good call. IMHO
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Global Warming is the idea that the UN, when given tonnes of other peoples money, will be able to exert more influence on the planets temperature than the Sun. Simple really!
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The earth is flat. The idea that it is round is a lie promoted by government funded scientists with a political agenda.
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but will we need to run different pet/oil ratios ?????
or, egad, change our jetting from stock !!!!!!
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The earth is flat. The idea that it is round is a lie promoted by government funded scientists with a political agenda.
All the thermometers on the earth and in space are in on it too ;)
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Ha Ha god one Lozza . Yes anyone without a airconditioned cushion job would have noticed the rises. Kangaroos and other marsupials throwing out their embrios . Fruit trees fruiting and flowering at the same time . Native species of gums and banksias throwing their towel in after 5 days of up to 45 degree days .
Not a good example. I have lived and worked in Adelaide twice and three months at the a-hole of the earth, Port Waikfield.
Those temps are normal. At least I suppose places like that make it possible for our new chink overloads to get in on some cheap real estate.
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The earth is flat. The idea that it is round is a lie promoted by government funded scientists with a political agenda.
All the thermometers on the earth and in space are in on it too ;)
And now declared last week that the northern boundary of the colder "Southern Current" that rotates around the Antarctic has shifted 300 miles further south. Nothing to worry about hey, somebody will get on to it,,,, one day. Nothin but fear mungerring, fuggin lazy current.
And don't be foolishly worried about the fact that all atmospheric weather systems on Earth are driven by ocean currents. Who cares?
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Trying to figure out why I used LESS units of electricity in the last 3 months than the last 3 months 2014.
Obviously my fridge has gotten more efficient.
Sorry Graeme couldn't resist.
(http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx172/mike52_photo/Many%20jiff/smiley-char1541.gif) (http://s753.photobucket.com/user/mike52_photo/media/Many%20jiff/smiley-char1541.gif.html)
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I've resisted long enough.
Why is it that people have to believe in climate change. Isn't belief the realm of religion?
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AND anyone that questions it is branded a none believer and subjected to the modern version of the witch craft trials. Philosophically thrown in a river and if they drown they are innocent but fortunately dead and silent and if they swim they are dragged out and burnt at the stake and umm dead and silent.
1st it was global warming when that proved to be false it became climate change and when that is slowly being dispelled it is now globally serious weather events.
Carbon dioxide is <4% of the atmosphere and has changed about 0.16% and historically has been much much higher than present values but ...... oh shit someone is suggesting that I have a swim in the creek.
The UN and Al Gore have made 100s of millions of $US out of this stuff. It is all about redistributing wealth on a globe basis except Al he kept his. Wealthy countries pay poor countries to grow trees.
correction 14/1/16 my % values are incorrect should read 0.04% CO2 and 0.0016% is attributable to humans the rest is natural
This is my personal view not Heaven VMX club.
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(https://otterlover58.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/this_background.jpg)
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I agree Mick D
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Totally disagree with the apparent consensus on this topic - so please don't assume I go along with the nonsense about it all being a UN plot or scientists just lining their pocket. I race but I don't deny the chance - the likelihood - they're on the money.
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Scientists tell us there was an Ice Age, thousands of years ago,
Scientists also tell us that most of this Ice melted several thousand years ago.
How did this happen ?
Was there Global Warming thousands of years before Humans invented - Cars, trucks, Power Stations etc. ?
Maybe I am just one of those flat earth people :) :)
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Hmmm... I can see this one risks taking off! While I have no problem with discussions about non-VMX matters in the General Discussion forum, I know that many members aren't keen on such discussions clogging up the forum.
Really, Global Warming has been around for a while as a topic of discussion in many quarters so I think it's safe to say you can learn all you want by visiting the many many websites and forums that tackle that specific issue.
Can I just say that as someone who has read extensively on this topic, it's not at all simple and straight forward. It is a very complex matter and just shooting from the hip and saying well it was hot/cold/indifferent yesterday has absolutely nothing to do with the science.
There are very good grounds for claiming that the world is warming and that this may cause problems in the future; yet there are also very good grounds for claiming that the warming has been exaggerated and that we may not face quite the catastrophic outcomes being proposed.
You might learn more by doing your own research. The sorts of comments being thrown around here are pretty sketchy I must say! ;)
Anyway, more to the point, I've now received three complaints about this topic, which in the scheme of things is actually pretty significant. I'll leave it to run for now but if it gets too painful I'm gonna lock it off.
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AND anyone that questions it is branded a none believer and subjected to the modern version of the witch craft trials. Philosophically thrown in a river and if they drown they are innocent but fortunately dead and silent and if they swim they are dragged out and burnt at the stake and umm dead and silent.
1st it was global warming when that proved to be false it became climate change and when that is slowly being dispelled it is now globally serious weather events.
Carbon dioxide is <4% of the atmosphere and has changed about 0.16% and historically has been much much higher than present values but ...... oh shit someone is suggesting that I have a swim in the creek.
The UN and Al Gore have made 100s of millions of $US out of this stuff. It is all about redistributing wealth on a globe basis except Al he kept his. Wealthy countries pay poor countries to grow trees.
This is my personal view not Heaven VMX club.
How did the UN "make millions" out of climate change exactly? Where has all that money been 'redistributed' to? I suppose the Koch Brothers made a loss from oil and their personal wealth didn't grow from 20 Billion to 80 billion in the last 7 years?
Science differs from religion as it's based on measured data and facts. Not opinion, heresay or conjecture.
In order to believe there is a conspiracy about global warming that every climate scientist in the world has been forced or bribed into producing false data, that every scientist from the lowest lab technician to the head of NASA has colluded on a worldwide scale to commit acts of professional and criminal misconduct for financial or ideological reasons(or both). Verses vested interests with very deep pockets the ability to manufacture fear, doubt and controversy by spreading deliberate misinformation via right wing think tanks and media moguls giving airtime to spread the doubt .......which sounds a lot like what the tobacco industry did.
Even if there was a proven worldwide conspriacy by every scientific organisation in the world feverishing manipulating data while waiting for brown paper bags full of cash to be delivered, it doesn't explain how they can can get flowers to bloom earlier, birds, fish and insects to change their migration habits at the same time making the polar ice melt at alarming rates
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Anyway, more to the point, I've now received three complaints about this topic,
That's what l don't get ???
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Even if there was a proven worldwide conspriacy by every scientific organisation in the world feverishing manipulating data while waiting for brown paper bags full of cash to be delivered, it doesn't explain how they can can get flowers to bloom earlier, birds, fish and insects to change their migration habits at the same time making the polar ice melt at alarming rates
No one mentioned conspiracy only you. Virtually no one denies that the climate is changing just as it has since the birth of our planet. The debate centres on the predominant cause or if it is actually abnormal at all.
What do you think a carbon trading scheme is if it is not redistributing wealth. Wealthy industrialised people/companies/countries pay less developed people/companies/countries to operate carbon negative industries which otherwise would be uneconomical such as growing forests/jungles to 'capture' carbon. The wealthy 'payer' can then go on producing carbon dioxide unimpeded. The UN wants to act as the conduit to facilitate these schemes and naturally take a percentage to cover costs.
Read some of these articles about historical temperature and climate trends. They are reasonable basic but are interesting. The 2nd last one is topically interesting as it shows that average global temperatures peaked around 2003 and have actually declined since then. This is apposed to climate 'events' which have increased.
http://www.atmo.arizona.edu/students/courselinks/fall12/atmo336/lectures/sec5/holocene.html
http://www.atmo.arizona.edu/students/courselinks/fall12/atmo336/lectures/sec5/controversy.html
http://www.atmo.arizona.edu/students/courselinks/fall12/atmo336/lectures/sec5/20thcentury.html
http://www.atmo.arizona.edu/students/courselinks/fall12/atmo336/lectures/sec5/gwdiscussion.html
OR do you just want to throw anyone that does not run out and buy a Toyota Prius in a lake/river to see if they drown or get burnt at the stake.
I don't expect this to change your view whatever that view is and I accept that.
again this is just my personal view not Heaven VMX club
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Anyway, more to the point, I've now received three complaints about this topic
Isn't this site occupied by blokes that like dirt bikes, that should be able to debate stuff without crying.
Looks like tissue sales are on the rise.
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Anyway, more to the point, I've now received three complaints about this topic,
That's what l don't get ???
I suppose it's what I observed earlier - some people don't like discussions about non-vmx related issues on a VMX forum, especially if that topic starts to attract many comments and thereby dominate the list of recent posts. Others are firmly in the camp that global warming is happening and simply don't believe that there should be discussion about the possibility that it isn't.
Personally I find global warming a very interesting subject and after an awful lot of my own reading/research have come to see it as a powerful example of how social contexts influence and constrain public and scientific opinions. I admit to being highly sceptical myself, but I tend to keep my views and comments to the appropriate forums where I have had many long and entertaining discussions with both pro and anti viewpoints.
As far as OzVMX goes, I think I am on the side of those who'd rather not have this discussion here. It's not VMX related, it can not resolve anything, it is of the nature of the various 'rules' related topics in that it will simply go around in circles, no-one will change their minds and it may even get messy. Why bother? As I said if you really want to discuss it, there are a zillion forums out there doing just that. If you want to learn more, there are also plenty of sources available. But it's quite a complex matter.
Equally however I don't think OzVMX should be about stifling debate if people want to discuss something which is why I've often let rules discussions go longer than perhaps I should have. I think there is a rather frightening tendency in today's world to close down debate when there are contentious issues at hand - the idea seeming to be that people shouldn't be allowed to express an opinion if others think it wrong. And that is NOT what I believe we should promote here.
So it's tricky, I don't wish to be heavy handed in moderating this forum based on some notion of political correctness but equally I don't wish us to become side-tracked by non-relevant discussion. My view is simple - OzVMX is about old dirtbikes. I think we should keep it to that.
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If you read through history, every century has had a 'The sky is falling' fear mongering campaign. Whether it is just human nature, or a conspiracy by higher powers to keep people in fear, I don't know. We all remember as a kid, the boogeyman will get us if we don't behave. Some people even believe that if they kill those who don't believe they will go to heaven and have 72 virgins at their disposal. Humans are pretty messed up.
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as far as I know, the current CO2 levels are way higher than that required to affect the atmosphere so a carbon trading scheme is close to religion in my book. your trading something you cant see and people just tell you to pay up or the big one will get you. a volcano puffs out waaayyy more co2 in an eruption than the general population. human pollutants ie plastic in the ocean are a far more significant threat to us than co2 ...no money in that tho...
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If the Globe is warming, why can't you go ahead and use the optional Suzuki RM125B swingarm on your Pre-78 RM125 and why hasn't Walter deleted his posts? ;)
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Now I hesitate to jump into this one, but there are a couple of inaccuracies here.
First, the problem of CO2 in the atmosphere is that it continues to raise the radiative forcing the more you add, although there is a good argument that at about 550-600ppm (parts per million) the effect is exhausted (some claim that is already the case). That means that the more CO2, the more the atmosphere warms. The rule of thumb is that for a doubling of CO2 from pre-industrial levels of 280ppm to 560ppm, the direct forcing increases by something in the order of 1-2 degrees C. The catastrophic bit comes from positive feedbacks which increase the effect to something like between 2 and 5 degrees C. That is, the atmosphere could warm by as much as 5 C on average for a CO2 level of 560ppm.
However more recent estimates suggest direct forcing might be closer to 1.2 C or less, and feedbacks are currently not well quantified. It is possible feedbacks are net negative.
The reason that we need to reduce CO2 emissions is that we haven't yet doubled CO2 from pre-industrial levels. We are currently at something like 410-420ppm I believe. Well short of the 560ppm a doubling would mean. Keeping CO2 levels to not much more than we are currently at would mean, according to the science, an average increase of less than 2C. That is, if we keep CO2 from increasing by too much more, we might avert catastrophic global warming.
So according to the science, we still need to reduce CO2 emissions.
As for volcanoes, as best we know they emit on average less than 1 billion tonnes of CO2 per annum. Humans produce something like 30 billion tonnes of CO2 per annum.
The optional RM125B swingarm issue is significantly more complicated...
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I reckon you're spot on Graeme.
I also think that in modern times people seem to have the tendency to whinge and moan and demand it be changed when something is not to their liking rather than just move on to something that is.
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I'm trying to figure out why the sea level in Sydney harbour has only risen 4mm [ yep 4mm not 4cm or 4ft ] in the last 100 years.
At this rate it will reach the expert predicted heights in the next 1000 years.
Don't just blindly believe or disbelieve what I have written as fact go and check it out for your self.
The BOM has been keeping records that are available on line.
I'm also glad that the " OZONE HOLE " is no longer a problem. ;)
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Perhaps global warming is the reason YZ490's ping like there's no tomorrow? It may well be VMX related after all.
K
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I'm trying to figure out why the sea level in Sydney harbour has only risen 4mm [ yep 4mm not 4cm or 4ft ] in the last 100 years.
At this rate it will reach the expert predicted heights in the next 1000 years.
Mike,I'm not sure that is correct. The tide gauge data for Sydney comes from Fort Denison and it shows what looks like about 100mm of rise in the past 100 years. That said, I think Fort Denison is subsiding so actual rise may well be less. Sea level rise is one of my favourite topics when it comes to Global Warming. The general claim is a rise of something like 3mm/year on average globally after various 'adjustments', and claims for acceleration of rate in recent times. I don't believe the data supports that contention at all, but you have to note that sea level rise is also a tricky beast. Some places rise more than others, land subsidence rates also need to be factored in and so on.
Here's the Fort Denison graph, you can get this from an excellent set of historical data at the PSMSL website:
http://www.psmsl.org/data/obtaining/
(http://www.psmsl.org/data/obtaining/rlr.monthly.plots/196_high.png)
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;D
I use this one Graeme.
http://www.bom.gov.au/ntc/IDO70000/IDO70000_60370_SLD.shtml
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That's an interesting one, I like the plot of max, min and mean. That is something I've often pondered and having done a few analyses of sea levels I note that in many cases, mean sea level rises often result from increases in minimums and not so much maximums. In other words, while mean sea level has increased, actual max high water has not. Fort Denison is subsiding and I read elsewhere tonight that in fact subsidence rates appear almost on par with relative tide gauge increases leading to practically no change in sea level at Sydney. No idea if that's true, it was just a comment on a blog.
Here's the data you just referred to as a plot, note the mean and min, but especially the max. That said, the mean seems to reflect my data above showing a rise in mean level of something like 100mm just from eyeballing it.
(http://www.bom.gov.au/ntc/IDO70000/IDO70000_60370_SLI.png)
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The sceptics lose me because they've had too many bites.
I mean, if you're accused of something that you didn't do, then your first - and only response will be your alibi: "I was at the pub. I never went to the service station". No matter what happened, your alibi won't change, because it is the truth.
Compare this to the sceptics' excuses:
climate change isn't happening;
oh wait maybe it is happening;
volcanoes cause it;
ok, volcanoes don't, it must be forest fires;
oh, so that was bullshit too, how about sun spots;
Dammit, it's just a natural occurrence;
It will be cheaper to adapt;
CO2 is invisible, therefore it can't hurt you;
No, wait, how about we talk about what the Kardashians are up to;
The islands are sinking!
The excuses will never end. The truth will not change.
The truth is simple and consistent. The fact that the "sceptical opinion" has repeatedly morphed into different ideas, shows that it is an opinion looking for a justification.
And that it is bullshit.
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(http://www.bom.gov.au/ntc/IDO70000/IDO70000_60370_SLI.png)
Well there you go, there lies the fault.
They have left the yellow Suzuki Rising Sun out of the equation :) :D ;)
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The sceptics lose me because they've had too many bites.
I mean, if you're accused of something that you didn't do, then your first - and only response will be your alibi: "I was at the pub. I never went to the service station". No matter what happened, your alibi won't change, because it is the truth.
Compare this to the sceptics' excuses:
climate change isn't happening;
oh wait maybe it is happening;
volcanoes cause it;
ok, volcanoes don't, it must be forest fires;
oh, so that was bullshit too, how about sun spots;
Dammit, it's just a natural occurrence;
It will be cheaper to adapt;
CO2 is invisible, therefore it can't hurt you;
No, wait, how about we talk about what the Kardashians are up to;
The islands are sinking!
The excuses will never end. The truth will not change.
The truth is simple and consistent. The fact that the "sceptical opinion" has repeatedly morphed into different ideas, shows that it is an opinion looking for a justification.
And that it is bullshit.
"Sceptical opinion" is not the only thing that has morphed into different ideas.
"Global Warming" morphed into "Climate Change" when that idea didn't look so certain, what will be the next different idea from the believers be called.
Its not compulsory to believe, and its not "bullshit" if someone has a different opinion on a subject which still needs a lot of research
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I'm also glad that the " OZONE HOLE " is no longer a problem. ;)
I am so glad that you bought the Man Made "OZONE HOLE" up!
It is great example of "Cause and effect" and then what can be achieved if intelligence and common sense can be allowed to prevail.
FACT; The Stratospheric protective Ozone layer is something that all life on this planet depends upon! FACT!
Fact; The "OZONE HOLE" was man made. FACT
In the 1930's DuPont began commercial production of a range of CFC's (Chlorofluorocarbons).
It was thought to be a safe replacement for previous refrigerant gases. It then went on to be used extensively as aerosol-spray propellants etc.
Scientists discovered that CFC's were solely responsible for the destruction and depletion of Stratospheric Ozone.
That destruction of Ozone being the cause of a rapidly growing hole in Earths protective shield.
They pushed and pushed their message, surely all would remember? I do, very much so. At first it was very difficult for them to get their message across. I think they(Scientists) need to work on their communication skills. Layman's terms.
Countries around the world came together in urgent meetings.
In 1978 The Montreal Protocol was adopted as a framework for international cooperation regarding CFC control on the basis of the Vienna Convention for the Protection of the Ozone Layer.
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/milestone_zpshvzkhxmm.jpg~original)
Still many decades to go before complete restoration of our Ozone protective shield, but at least that cessation of all life on Earth count down has now been averted.
This is what saved us on that one
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/cfhrc.ht3%201_zpsq3vakidv.jpg~original)
This why the Ozone hole has contracted. All Fact
FACT; THERE WOULD BE NO LIFE LEFT ON EARTH WELL BEFORE THE END OF THIS CENTURY HAD NOT 196 NATIONS LISTENED TO OUR SCIENTISTS AND COME TOGETHER TO LEGISLATE THE BANNING OF CFC's
FACT
Crisis averted, please have a nice day :)
If you selectively don't remember these events or choose not to?
Well then you have issues, serious issues. Only because you choose to have them.
I am not saying that would make you an "Earth is flat" type of person, but I am saying that if you choose to remain ignorant then it definitely makes you a "head in a bucket of sand" type person.
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The sceptics lose me because they've had too many bites.
I mean, if you're accused of something that you didn't do, then your first - and only response will be your alibi: "I was at the pub. I never went to the service station". No matter what happened, your alibi won't change, because it is the truth.
Compare this to the sceptics' excuses:
climate change isn't happening;
oh wait maybe it is happening;
volcanoes cause it;
ok, volcanoes don't, it must be forest fires;
oh, so that was bullshit too, how about sun spots;
Dammit, it's just a natural occurrence;
It will be cheaper to adapt;
CO2 is invisible, therefore it can't hurt you;
No, wait, how about we talk about what the Kardashians are up to;
The islands are sinking!
The excuses will never end. The truth will not change.
The truth is simple and consistent. The fact that the "sceptical opinion" has repeatedly morphed into different ideas, shows that it is an opinion looking for a justification.
And that it is bullshit.
"Sceptical opinion" is not the only thing that has morphed into different ideas.
"Global Warming" morphed into "Climate Change" when that idea didn't look so certain, what will be the next different idea from the believers be called.
Its not compulsory to believe, and its not "bullshit" if someone has a different opinion on a subject which still needs a lot of research
With respect djr, nothing has morphed into anything mate. Those terms mean two entirely different things.
Quite simply "cause" and "effect".
Climate change is not causing the planet to warm up.
It is the other way around, a warming planet Gobal Warming that is being said to have now bought about a changing climate Climate Change. Cause and effect.
It has been very recent and widely publicized that it is now indeed Fact that the planet has warmed.
Which they say is the cause of new climate records. Put simply, cause and then effect.
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You caught me out Graeme I should have rechecked my statement.
The max sea level at Fort Dennison fell from 1914 to 1970's by 30mm , it then rose until now by 80mm.
Therefore the max sea level has risen by 48 to 50mm in that 100 year span.
That's .4 of a mm per year , 4mm per decade.
For the sea level to rise 4mtrs at this rate it will take 80 years x 100 .
[I use the max sea levels because they are the ones that will cause the predicted damage.]
Ps. These charts used to go back into the early 1800's but have been altered for some reason and I can no longer find that data.
Mick D.
I recently saw the Ozone Hole mentioned as it had completely disappeared and scientists did not understand why.
Yes I am skeptical on a heap of things , I have seen once in a thousand year floods here in Qld 4 times now.
I have here a News paper cutting saying that the experts predict 7 damaging cyclones in Qld for 2014 when there was only one.
I have seen the hottest ever temps recorded in Birdsville / Australia / the world , when they actually happened before I was born.
The experts have just discovered that there should be another planet to balance this solar system , does this mean that the experts that taught me the solar system stopped at Pluto were not experts but a bunch of knobs.
It's the experts that inflame my skepticism , not the data.
Cheers.
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No problems Mike. When people talk of sea level rise (SLR) they talk of changes over time to mean sea level (MSL). So there has been a change in MSL at Fort Denison over time. I agree that the effect of highest high water has been negligible and this is a matter I've been interested in - that while there is evidence for MSL rises over the past 100 years, it is often due to changes in low water rather than changes in high water. The thing with SLR is that for it to have any appreciable effect, it has to change high water levels in particular. Still, the fact is that MSL globally has indeed been rising over the past century according to both satellites and tide gauges. The rise averages at around 1.5 to 2.5mm/year globally. In some places it has actually fallen, in some it has risen on average more than that. At Sydney, it seems to have been at around .5-1mm/year in the past century which means average sea level is now around 50-100mm higher than in 1916.
If you have the stomach for it, this extremely long thread does cover a lot of issues relating to sea level rise around Australia. I comment throughout using the name Bolt For PM and also Graeme M. I am not sure any real conclusion was ever reached - in the end I lost interest. But the argument that the rate of SLR has not changed over the past century seemed to hold its ground in my opinion.
http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2012/12/12/sea-level-rise-acceleration/
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You caught me out Graeme I should have rechecked my statement.
The max sea level at Fort Dennison fell from 1914 to 1970's by 30mm , it then rose until now by 80mm.
Therefore the max sea level has risen by 48 to 50mm in that 100 year span.
That's .4 of a mm per year , 4mm per decade.
For the sea level to rise 4mtrs at this rate it will take 80 years x 100 .
[I use the max sea levels because they are the ones that will cause the predicted damage.]
Ps. These charts used to go back into the early 1800's but have been altered for some reason and I can no longer find that data.
Mick D.
I recently saw the Ozone Hole mentioned as it had completely disappeared and scientists did not understand why.
Yes I am skeptical on a heap of things , I have seen once in a thousand year floods here in Qld 4 times now.
I have here a News paper cutting saying that the experts predict 7 damaging cyclones in Qld for 2014 when there was only one.
I have seen the hottest ever temps recorded in Birdsville / Australia / the world , when they actually happened before I was born.
The experts have just discovered that there should be another planet to balance this solar system , does this mean that the experts that taught me the solar system stopped at Pluto were not experts but a bunch of knobs.
It's the experts that inflame my skepticism , not the data.
Cheers.
You're forgetting that the "experts" once said the earth was flat. They also once said that man would never fly etc etc.....New discoveries come with scientific research and new technology. Scientists are constantly checking each others hypothesis, or trying to explain phenomena. Thats the way it works. Otherwise we'd all be sitting around our own version of Stonehenge.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/12/einstein-gravitational-waves-physics
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/01/feature-astronomers-say-neptune-sized-planet-lurks-unseen-solar-system
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http://www.populartechnology.net/2013/02/the-1970s-global-cooling-alarmism.html
In the '70's the planet was going to freeze over and we were going to have a new ice age.
We were running out of fossil fuel and had the fuel crisis where people had to que up and be rationed petrol.
The 2 stroke was dead because of emissions. It died again for the same reason in 2000. (Oddly enough it always coincided with Yamaha releasing a new 4 stroke).
Smoking cigarettes was harmless.
Y2K was the end of mankind.
Humans are Lemmings. You experience it everyday when traffic goes to a crawl for 10k's because someone on the other side of the highway is pulled over with their bonnet up.
I believe that we make too much pollution, that we upset the balance of the planet. How much this affects weather I don't know. What I don't like is when the authorities put taxes and restrictions on us in the name of saving the planet when they merrily test nuclear weapon, build nuclear power stations, let big corporations poison the environment and generally cause more damage to the planet in one day than the average person could do in a lifetime. And yet we get penalised. I'm sure half the fear mongering is to justify their reasoning.
As far as scientists are concerned, their research is usually funded by someone who wants statistics to say a certain thing.
Call me a sceptic, I don't believe the doomsayers but I don't believe the conspiracy theorists either. The truth lies somewhere in the middle.
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http://www.populartechnology.net/2013/02/the-1970s-global-cooling-alarmism.html
In the '70's the planet was going to freeze over and we were going to have a new ice age.
We were running out of fossil fuel and had the fuel crisis where people had to que up and be rationed petrol.
The 2 stroke was dead because of emissions. It died again for the same reason in 2000. (Oddly enough it always coincided with Yamaha releasing a new 4 stroke).
Smoking cigarettes was harmless.
Y2K was the end of mankind.
Humans are Lemmings. You experience it everyday when traffic goes to a crawl for 10k's because someone on the other side of the highway is pulled over with their bonnet up.
I believe that we make too much pollution, that we upset the balance of the planet. How much this affects weather I don't know. What I don't like is when the authorities put taxes and restrictions on us in the name of saving the planet when they merrily test nuclear weapon, build nuclear power stations, let big corporations poison the environment and generally cause more damage to the planet in one day than the average person could do in a lifetime. And yet we get penalised. I'm sure half the fear mongering is to justify their reasoning.
As far as scientists are concerned, their research is usually funded by someone who wants statistics to say a certain thing.
Call me a sceptic, I don't believe the doomsayers but I don't believe the conspiracy theorists either. The truth lies somewhere in the middle.
I'm with you to an extent. I think i prefer to believe 90% of the scientists who are saying we need to clean up our act though. And yes, politics and money have clouded the issue to the point of no return.
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c&b - like you - I get pissed when a new tax is generated and the funds raised go nowhere towards fixing the problems - aka the carbon emissions tax. It is a bit like the road tax should be - put the revenue raised back into the problem - not some of it and distribute the rest wherever you feel.
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Answer this then. If the planet is heating up why is my dinner always cold when i get home late from the pub?
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Im luvven this, no comment as yet its been said for me, but put it this way I am an ecologist and go with the just in case your wrong theory that's why we are putting it back cos it wont hurt if we are wrong
besides I like critters
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I had lost interest in this subject a while back because I don't see the predictions coming true and I wonder.
I wonder if there is such a big problem then why are we building more roads in Brisbane , why is the rego on Honda Todays so high.
Logic would say that we ban cars from the city and everyone rides Honda Todays on cheap rego.
I wonder why the sea level looks exactly the same as it did when I was a kid.
I wonder about the photos in the Qld Museum from the 1800's of huge crocodiles caught in the Logan and Clarance Rivers.
I wonder about the flood height marked on the Customs House in Brisbane from the flood in the late 1800's which is Meters above anything since.
As I said before I wonder why my electricity use has gorn down when it was apparently the hottest year on record . [ Don't seem logical ]
I wonder why the hottest hay ever recorded in Australia was in the 1960's and not in the last couple of weeks.
I wonder why I got re-involved in this argument.
Wonder why it's raining every weekend up here , haven't been riding for weeks now.
Dry today think I'll go for a ride on my Xr400.
Cheers.
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I had lost interest in this subject a while back because I don't see the predictions coming true and I wonder.
I wonder if there is such a big problem then why are we building more roads in Brisbane , why is the rego on Honda Todays so high.
Logic would say that we ban cars from the city and everyone rides Honda Todays on cheap rego.
I wonder why the sea level looks exactly the same as it did when I was a kid.
I wonder about the photos in the Qld Museum from the 1800's of huge crocodiles caught in the Logan and Clarance Rivers.
I wonder about the flood height marked on the Customs House in Brisbane from the flood in the late 1800's which is Meters above anything since.
As I said before I wonder why my electricity use has gorn down when it was apparently the hottest year on record . [ Don't seem logical ]
I wonder why the hottest hay ever recorded in Australia was in the 1960's and not in the last couple of weeks.
I wonder why I got re-involved in this argument.
Wonder why it's raining every weekend up here , haven't been riding for weeks now.
Dry today think I'll go for a ride on my Xr400.
Cheers.
[/quote
just my opinion
forget all the stats and shit
get on a plane go for a fly look out the window and see how much its forked up
its a lot
ride ya bikes have fun, plant a tree help critter
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I'd rather err on the side of caution and get the pollies to work for us rather than the big corporations who support their election campaigns.
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Yes Mike, I entirely agree, I had way lost interest too, long ago. I just want to live and enjoy myself. I am sick to death of hearing it. I have to force myself to take time to listen.
That's why I had missed that about rising sea levels. Had no idea, until you and Graeme M put up linked factual data.
That is all I am trying to do, keep an open mind to process the claims, data and findings. I would rather go on with blissful denial, but I cannot anymore.
A significant rise in sea level would be a dramatic effect to me, but it would also displace the bulk of global population.
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/20150921_134143_zps3xnyqd7s.jpg~original)
I, like most on this forum am way closer to the end of my life span. Not the beginning.
So does that make it OK for my personal strategy to be a selfish point of view;
It may be the case, that my lifetime will be over before a rising sea level has flushed our coast.
So why should I could give a toss if those west of me get a couple of degrees warmer, stiff luck. Do you think I should care? worry about you? I don't love any of you. Although I have made a few very good friends among you. Is it OK if I just care about me and mine? Thats what most do. Is that a moral point of view?
Having descendants makes this issue my business and my problem!
My grand children will not be able to have a say in the future of their planet until 14 and sixteen years from now.
I would be morally bankrupt and totally delinquent in my duty of care to my young if I did not live out my life with an open mind, on their behalf. And the very same goes for the rest of you!
Like Shelpi and Paulos say "makes more sense to Err on the side of caution" on this one.
Now this is why it would be fool hardy not to be concerned.
Move over, incoming! big time Is there anyone who doesn't see how important this graph is to this issue?
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/populationgrowthhistory2_zpsc1fpqmgz.jpg~original)
So, personally if I were to live as long as my Grandfathers, I will be sharing this home with nine billion others :o :o :o
Yes I believe in some things, I believe it is rational to clean up our mess as we go and get real busy right now lowering our per-capita emissions, even if the big karhoona isn't around the bend.
Because one thing for sure, what is around the bend, is another two billion polluters.
This alone will be a massive challenge for mankind and our planet. During our lifetimes!
Brace yourselves.
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I'd rather err on the side of caution and get the pollies to work for us rather than the big corporations who support their election campaigns.
Niether can be trusted just saying, look at history, its power to the people on this one! and cant help feeling the shits gotta go down big time before we come out of this one (hope Im wrong)
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butt Just little bits of pollution are quite ok, hey. It will disappear down the drain hwy next time it rains hey?
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/butts_0166_300_zpsmyglmavo.jpg~original)
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/917541000_zpsvmuagpty.jpg~original)
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/Bird_Butt_zpssk9gydfd.jpg~original)
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/NoButts_1_Chicken_200dpi%201_zpss67vysp6.jpg~original)
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/NoButts_3_Lobster_200dpi_zps1doenqgu.jpg~original)
:-[ :'( >:( I do not want our young growing up to think that irresponsibility is OK
Brazil!
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/BN-LD856_1109br_M_20151108231636_zps1bbfvznu.jpg~original)
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/timthumb_zps2ubydbor.jpg~original)
Wouldn't be tolerated an our shores. So if its not on our shores, its definitely not our problem? Laughin, away scott free so far.
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/24648_487959647924345_112874524_n_zpsy8vqdoiy.jpg~original)
That is why I had put up the post that got removed.
It was an analogy about when things go pear shape? how when the pushers of the poison become miss-handlers of poison. They always step sideways, get busy looking for a scapegoat and do their best to deny involvement, cause and liability.
The greed of human nature always tries to pass the buck and the mess to those least able to defend themselves.
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just love your work Mick, big thumbs up from me bud 8)
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It's notable that climate change scepticism rose hugely at the time the Carbon Tax was introduced...
Which shows how we are, collectively, allowing our (perceived/short term) self interests to shape our thinking - moreso than the science.
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the Bougainville one is certainly not a case of a mining company walking away from their responsibilities - civil unrest meant people had to leave in a BIG hurry. Would still be running today but for that.
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the Bougainville one is certainly not a case of a mining company walking away from their responsibilities - civil unrest meant people had to leave in a BIG hurry. Would still be running today but for that.
Yes you are dead right! short memory on my part.
Thanks for alerting me, I'd better go back quickly and edit that out.
Thank you.
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the Bougainville one is certainly not a case of a mining company walking away from their responsibilities - civil unrest meant people had to leave in a BIG hurry. Would still be running today but for that.
Which ended up with the infamous "Sandline Affair".
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MMM Rising sea level - Take all of those boats out of the water as they are displacing to much of it.
Cabon Trading - if I go to bed early and use less power can I go out and burn 40 litres of the good stuff in my bikes this weekend?
On a serious note, transporting millons of tons of minerals from one side of the world to the other and turning it to ash over a period of over a 100 yrs must have some effect on the balance of the big ball at some time or another.
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Faark.....the pics of those animals with guts full of cigarette butts makes my blood boil. I really do detest any littering....Why people (I use the description lightly) can't manage to take care of their rubbish in a responsible manner is just plan faarked up. It's not that hard to put your butts or take away rubbish in a garbage bin or in ya pocket if you have to. I wonder if these grotts do the same thing in their own yard >:(
I even see it at MX events were rubbish ends up all over the paddock that someone was good enough to let us ride at.....is it any wonder that land owners don't want hoards of people on their property?
On a brighter note, I reckon anyone who restores/re-uses anything old should get carbon credits. After all, were are saving "stuff" from going to landfill and negating the need for high polluting companies to keep on manufacturing "disposable" crap.
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Yep. Take cars for example. The best thing to do for the environment is not to buy a brand new Prius. But to buy a second hand junker. The energy used to build the Prius far outweighs the energy used to keep the junker on the road.
So we VMXers are "green" by default.
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The reason cigarette butts end up on the ground is simple. "Smokers are discussing pigs"
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The reason cigarette butts end up on the ground is simple. "Smokers are discussing pigs"
Interesting talking point.
Do they come to any conclusions?
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;D ;D
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Yep, I am a discussing pig ;D
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To get back on the topic surely the reason Australia is warming up is that it is moving up to 70 mm NE each year. Closer to the equator and the rise in the sea level is just the bough wave or is it that the continental plate moves up and down as well as to the north. My KTMs will have oxidised into nothing before we know the answer.
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Not just Australia is it ? I very much doubt the north or south poles rushing toward the equator is causing the ice caps to melt. The ocean pH level isn't changing because a continent is moving.
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and as lozza has quote about ocean pH that will lead into the next problem oceans acidity it`s all linked
FNQ members how`s the reef going
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Basically, the world stopped last time cause it froze over. I always run my two strokes fully in the powerband to keep the world warm! Passing thought.
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Does "global warming" hibernate in winter? or just simply not work? ???
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Global warming moves out of the southern hemisphere every June and travels north to raise revenue from Californians
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GW doesn't really matter anyway, we're forked one way or another. A terrorist or religious zealot (pretty much the same thing) doesn't get us, a drunk driver, ice addict, disgruntled ex, corrupt politician, frickin' cancer or some other insidious disease, probably will long before GW does. Mother nature is having a fair old go at culling the over populated planet as well, I find it interesting (not a coincidence) that pretty much all the natural disasters which wipe plenty of people out happen in places where there are zillions of people. The moral to this story is do what you want to do today as tomorrow is not a sure thing. Buy the damn bike & have some fun!
K
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Burying the head in the sand is what got us to this point. Saying it's all perfectly OK that dirt poor people can get "culled" in a natural disaster is disgraceful.
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No head in the sand here, it is what is & no point sugar coating it, the planet has too many people on it & IN MY OPINION nature is trying to reduce that number. I'm entitled to my opinion & don't tout your theories as disgraceful even if I may see them as such. I believe in the "luck of the draw", we're all lucky that we weren't born in one of those countries. I seriously don't believe it's any coincidence that the bulk of the natural disasters happen in highly (over) populated places. I'd hardly call Japan a dirt poor country either. It's just MY observation, nothing more, nothing less.
K
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My thoughts .... Its just a cycle we are going thru and mother nature will tell us when she has had enough. ie raise the temp or lower few notches as she has done before to tell us who is boss.
We are only visitors here for a short time and as Bigk has mentioned enjoy every day as tomorrow might never come.
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I have Agree with big K over Population is the biggest problem in the World today
and most of it is coming from 3rd World Countries that are just breeding more breeding
Cows .
That's why they are all going to other Countries you only have look at Australia's
population growth in the last 10 to 15 years and the Extra demand it is putting on
Water / Roads Public Transport ect.
The Stig
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Can someone tell me where the reference point is that they measure the rising sea levels against ?
Just wondering. ;)
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Australians have been improvising (inventing) since the start of whenever, We have to because its a damn hot dry and big land and thats not going to change in the next squillion years. Continental drift and atmospheric temperatures as well as sea levels have historic evidence that they all have been up and down and thats just the way it is for various reasons. i guess dont buy waterfront property if your afraid of sea levels rising.
Is it not merely a case of how you perceive the issue?
Opportunities arise only for those who have their eyes open to them.
Improvise overcome succeed.
Its a bit hot today.
Ooh look a nice cold beer.
That feels better.
Its a bit chilly today
ooh look a bottle of single malt.
That feels better.
And what was that so called problem again?
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Australians have been improvising (inventing) since the start of whenever, We have to because its a damn hot dry and big land and thats not going to change in the next squillion years.
A squillion years, with all due respect, that is blatant denial or pure ignorance Pokey.
It was only twenty thousand years ago that an Ice Age culled nearly all of us.
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Can someone tell me where the reference point is that they measure the rising sea levels against ?
Just wondering. ;)
I think it is more prudent to choose when as a datum.
If measuring the height of something, the Datum reference is its lowest known point, is it not?
Unless of course a known average, "mean line", "ground level" or "Horizon" is chosen as a point of reference.
So the last known low. Which would be the last known major "Ice Age", 20,000 years ago. The sea level and shore line "then" would be our datum reference point, which is known as the Australian Continental Shelf
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/1423837042667_zps0zae1a3w.jpg~original)
My thoughts .... Its just a cycle we are going thru and mother nature will tell us when she has had enough. ie raise the temp or lower few notches as she has done before to tell us who is boss.
We are only visitors here for a short time and as Bigk has mentioned enjoy every day as tomorrow might never come.
I tend to agree.
The Earth has a very long history of freezing and thawing. I believe repetitive ice ages are/is the earth's cooling and culling and extinction mechanism. A natural cycle, which may or may not vary in its time phasing due to human influences?
Obviously we are somewhere in the warming thaw cycle. Maybe we are helping it? Maybe we are not?
But one thing that is known, is that The Cold Southern Current that revolves the Antarctic drives all atmospheric climate in the northern hemisphere, 100% fact.
It snows over the Antarctic. Ice sheets are formed, which move toward the sea. That sea front melt feeds the temperature of the southern current which revolves around the Antarctic, simply fact.
The lucky layout of Earth's land masses and the dissimilar temperate of the much colder southern current to the oceans above it, is what drives the patterns of currents of oceans above it, and then again those oceans in turn do similar to the seas north of them to create all atmospheric climate in the northern Hemisphere. That is a shortened version, but it is a matter of evidence and fact, more to the point none of the Scientific community disagrees. The most important factor that produces that outcome is indeed the near freezing temperature of the Southern Current, simply fact.
The line of temperature that the defines the northern boundary of the southern current, has just receded by 300 miles. Now that is what I would consider to be the most alarming data to date. Now I have no idea when all the Antarctic ice will be gone. Are we accelerating that process to an irreversible tipping point? Maybe, but I do not know. And that is the 64 million dollar question that is being argued about.
But when/if the cold of the Southern current stops, then the onset of the next ice age will be same as the ones before it. A super storm will start in the northern hemisphere and basically it will just keep going. When it happens? and it will happen again one day, as sure as night follows day. In the scale of time, it will be an "overnight event". Everything there will freeze. Ice sheets will once again form and spread across the northern hemisphere. Those ice sheets will be made from the precipitating H2o that was once ocean water. Hence the lowering level of unfrozen shore lines in the southern hemisphere.
When it happens? There will be a massive overnight cull of the human race. Life in the northern hemisphere and the Woolie Mammoth will become extinct ::) well that's what happened. And it will happen again, except for the bit about the Wollie Mammoth becoming extinct again ::) ::) ;D
The oldest living culture on Earth, the Australian Aboriginals who have been in Australia for the 40,000 years or longer, survived. Only 20,000 years ago.
I am honestly not worried about it.
Hey Sera sera.
What will happen next?
Right now?
What I should of been doing instead of bothering with this.
Play with my KDX, and then a cold beer :)
and get ready for tomorrows efforts :)
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What I find ironic is that they just found a Wollie Mammoth perfectly intact in the northern thaw. It even has blood as liquid as it thaws.
They are just about to clone it from the blood, True
Common sense would dictate to move it to Australia to ensure its survival this time.
But whenever the time of the next Ice Age comes? do you think it will be safe? given that it probably tastes heaps better than yams ;D ???
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The only Humans to survive the last one are the oldest living culture on Earth, the Australian Aboriginals who have been in Australia for the 40,000 years or longer.
So this means that every one of us is directly descended from the Australian Aborigine? That is going to cause some controversy.
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The only Humans to survive the last one are the oldest living culture on Earth, the Australian Aboriginals who have been in Australia for the 40,000 years or longer.
So this means that every one of us is directly descended from the Australian Aborigine? That is going to cause some controversy.
Obviously not ;D that one slipped through some how ::) ;D
Good pick up Fred :)
Obviously I am not one to let the truth stand in the way of a good story ;D
They did survive though and are the oldest surviving culture on earth too.
And a culture of only 40,000 years or so.
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Can someone tell me where the reference point is that they measure the rising sea levels against ?
Just wondering. ;)
Simple question surely someone knows where the reference point is.
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Can someone tell me where the reference point is that they measure the rising sea levels against ?
Just wondering. ;)
Simple question surely someone knows where the reference point is.
I reckon the shape of the earth (and the height of the water) is measured using satellites, physics and mathematics
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Can someone tell me where the reference point is that they measure the rising sea levels against ?
Just wondering. ;)
Simple question surely someone knows where the reference point is.
From what I have read?
The datum of a tidal station is set by its known lowest astronomical modern tide history in that area, at the time of build(a relatively short lived period of time).
Tidal levels then reported as varying levels above that datum of that particular measuring station.
And those datums vary all over the world. You asked about "Sea Levels" but.
I think the life of a tidal recording station should be considered as a completely different period of time, than a period of earth's changing sea levels that occur during a earths cooling and heating cycle. Perhaps, anyhow. Definitely my feeling.
The cycles, I have mentioned are huge in time span and accompanied by a huge fluctuation in known sea levels.
Can someone tell me where the reference point is that they measure the rising sea levels against ?
Just wondering. ;)
So when talking "sea level"
I think the known lowest sea level(ice age) is a prudent datum to measure from.
Anything else does not reflect the span of a full cycle of rise and fall.
Tidal measurements are different.
I can say though as a complete matter of fact that the Sea Level in our region has risen 120 meters in the last 20,000 years.
And I can say it is on the rise by over 3mm a year at this present time in our region.
And I can say New York is reporting nearly 4mm a year.
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Can someone tell me where the reference point is that they measure the rising sea levels against ?
Just wondering. ;)
Simple question surely someone knows where the reference point is.
I reckon the shape of the earth (and the height of the water) is measured using satellites, physics and mathematics
It is said that during the Ice age, the weight of the ice sheets deformed the earth's crust considerably.
It is also said that it is the forces in the Earths fluid mantle that are responsible for very slowly changing back the shape of the crust since the Glacial period finished. The crust is still measurably rising in many areas on earth every year.
Take many other things for example like plate shift which results in a measurable difference in movements and heights along fault lines, sure. Not something that I understand much about. But yes there are also measured rises and falls because of plates grinding against each other and a "returning to shape" crust. Two different things which sometimes share the same "localised" fluid mantle force.
A massive contrast in the climate of an Ice Age and a thawed out period. And the massive differences in known sea levels associated with those measurable events.
And after re reading my posts, I think it is more than fair to say that has been the content of my posts this afternoon. And it is fact that there have been many Ice ages on this planet, and many thaws.
What I have aired is the fact of a known earthly cycle that has gone on long before our "spec of dust in time" generation and a cycle that will more than likely march on and on, and be repeated over and over again.
Perhaps our life time is probably not the best way to measure things, but yet it seems that some changes are indeed measurable during our very short lifes.
Anyhow, go nuts boys, I am out of here.
Beer-o-clock time for Mickey now :)
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I dig this forum for many reasons, but I feel as though I have just wasted an afternoon of my life that I will never recapture :'(
What a foolish waste i now feel.
I hope that I can grow to be smart enough to learn from that and never do it again, what a waste :'(
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Burying the head in the sand is what got us to this point. Saying it's all perfectly OK that dirt poor people can get "culled" in a natural disaster is disgraceful.
And exactly what point are we at now? Have you noticed more of your neighbours dropping dead from changes to the climate? Have they not been able to work because of weather changes?
If i had built a new house a few years ago i'd be more concerned with the extra 9% i had to pay because of this scaremongering associated with this global warming BS
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Whats the matter Mick ? I thought this was a thread worth watching . Good to see what others think , sometimes I think most have their heads berried in the sand . Keep up the good work . I rather see this type of discussion , then the lux value of NOS PE rear lights to replicas , thats for sure .
I hope you have plenty of everything Walter :)
Cause if it were to happen sooner than latter?
I think many of us might be heading to your jiont ;D
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Burying the head in the sand is what got us to this point. Saying it's all perfectly OK that dirt poor people can get "culled" in a natural disaster is disgraceful.
And exactly what point are we at now? Have you noticed more of your neighbours dropping dead from changes to the climate? Have they not been able to work because of weather changes?
I got a neighbour that looks like he might drop dead if it gets any hotter!
And it was that hot the other day, that I had to stay at the pub after I had lunch there.
Then I was that hung over the next day that I couldn't work then either. Thats how hot it was ;D
Sometimes I can hardly wait for the next ice age ;D
Those dopey yanks ill learn, all this time building bomb shelters,
when they should have been building Igloos ;D
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Can someone tell me where the reference point is that they measure the rising sea levels against ?
Just wondering. ;)
Simple question surely someone knows where the reference point is.
While I can't answer in detail, the process works more or less like this as I understand it. A local station datum is set with reference to a local benchmark. The benchmark is obtained geodesically, while the datum is a calculated level with respect to the benchmark. This datum is set to be lower than lowest possible water. Tidal means (eg mean higher high water, or mean low water) are calculated over an epoch, usually 19 years, and referenced to the station datum. The benchmark is usually significantly above highest high water (most often at some particular point on land near to the coast).
If the most recent epoch is from 1983 to 2001 for example, then the mean sea level (MSL) tidal datum would be that derived by averaged measurements over that period (as compared to the station datum). Current MSL (and therefore MSL trends over time) can be calculated by averaging local tidal values and comparing them to the station datum.
That's relative local sea level. These days satellites (eg TOPEX/Poseidon) measure MSL globally. I think they do this by averaging sea surface fluctuations as measured and comparing that to theoretical surfaces that are derived mathematically (ie a reference ellipsoid).
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Just to clarify, local sea levels are derived from measurements against a local datum point. That's a relative value as the land (which is used to establish the datum) might be rising or falling.
Global mean sea level is derived via satellites. They measure the sea surface using radar and compare that to a mathematically idealised version of the earth (in other words, they establish the difference between the surface they measure and a mathematically derived datum). This is therefore an absolute value.
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Source; US EPA
http://www3.epa.gov/climatechange/science/indicators/oceans/sea-level.html (http://www3.epa.gov/climatechange/science/indicators/oceans/sea-level.html)
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/sea-level-figure1-2015_zpsggk9rdsw.png~original)
The rise is slow.
This why I don't see a need to make a panicked move in my remaining life time.
Will my real estate be worth anything in future generations?
I don't see an issue.
The value of my investment is as a great place to live now. Not long after I am dead.
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So does this mean we are getting the great inland sea back in Australia? that would be good for fishing but if it gets warmer that means the Crocs will start coming down the coast and thats not so good. But we could grow Bananas in Tasmania so thats good but maybe the price of Akubras would go up and thats bad.
its happened before and it will happen again. Were just here for a short time when you think about just how long this world has been around and its been changing ever since then for reasons like giant asteroids and volcanic eruptions to termite farts.
i agree its getting warmer and sea levels are rising but what about if thats just part of the cycle and human involvement have got stuff all to do with any of that???
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so 8 inches in 100 years, - no prob, Nepean raceway would be at least 10 ft above sea level. we still have 1200 years of racing.
Brett
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So does this mean we are getting the great inland sea back in Australia? that would be good for fishing but if it gets warmer that means the Crocs will start coming down the coast and thats not so good. But we could grow Bananas in Tasmania so thats good but maybe the price of Akubras would go up and thats bad.
;D ;D ;D ;D
Looks like the joint might be flat-linning anyhow Pokey ;D ;D
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/sea_level_rise_zpslzwhzy6n.jpg~original)
Or some may choose to look at the flat line as what was a long period of stability ;)
The little spike rise now might just be because we are getting rid of the last couple or ice cubes.
Better to get it over with ;D ::) ::) ::)
What I find as a fascinating stat, is a 3 billion population in 1960 to tripple to 9 billion 88 years latter, wow.
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/populationgrowthhistory2_zpsc1fpqmgz.jpg~original)
There should be no talk of financial doom and gloom.
Commerce should have a major time and opportunity ahead of it growth wise. In a very short period.
Lots of needs to be met. Lots of needs to be produced!
Only global mismanagement could blow that opportunity.
Pretty sad as a species if the greed of the few cannot embrace prosperity for all instead.
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Somehow vintage jetskis dont seem to have the same appeal and i dont even know if suzuki make one. Make a mighty fine outboard though and they use a lot of the same engine parts as my tRusty 185's so Im okay with that but they designate the engines as DT and thats too close to Yamaha and I cant see me ever owning another yamaha.One was more than enough.
Well looks like i will have to pour my entire life savings of $7.55 into further developing a Croc repellant if they are going to come south. So far its working. Ive not seen or heard a single one in the yard in over a week. Thats if you dont count me to talking to the ex on the phone. originally it was developed for mother in laws but i got sidetracked by a solicitor and an empty bank account.
(http://www.hazmasters.com/product_images/large/Croc%20Bloc%20insect%20repellant.png)
i wonder if robbie madison will teach me how to do this? ;D
(https://shawglobalnews.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/vlcsnap-2015-08-04-11h34m38.jpg?quality=70&strip=all&w=672&h=448&crop=1)
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Don't get me wrong Mick D and Graeme I actually believe that we are trashing the place and the result will be ugly.
But what pisses me is the uneducated bullshit served to the public.
The reason I asked about the reference point is ,as Graeme picked , because there isn't one.
The whole surface of the earth is constantly moving.
Here's something that came out just the other day .
" The Arctic ice is melting at a rapid rate "
My problem with this piece of scaremongering is that " Arctic Ice " is SEA ice.
When SEA ice melts the sea level goes DOWN not up. Most of us learn't this at school and have forgotten it.
If the Antartic ice was melting then we would have a problem because it mainly rests on dirt so the sea level would go up but Antartic ice is increasing so the sea level is again going down.
We had one a while back where the "something [ don't remember the name ] " shelf in the Antartic had broken off , shock horror , sea ice again I'm sorry , so the level will go down when it melts.
When icebergs melt the sea level goes down.
MickD put up a chart showing the population increase on earth showing an increase of 5 billion people since 1900.
Consider this , the human body is 60-65% water and the amount of water in a 50kg person is 30ltr so there's another 150 billion liters of water removed from the system.
If you look at a global sea level map you will find that the level is going DOWN around Indonesia.
But again referring back to my school days surely water finds it's own level.
Could it be that the land is rising due to the shifting of the plates?
How could satellite measurements show the sea level going down in one place and going up next door.
Sorry guys , don't make sense. :o
Could it be that the EXPERTS are actually relying on computer modeling instead of reality ?
Anyhow I went riding and that fixed me for a while so I'm going again. ;D
I also pulled my two stroke husky's out of the shed and fired them up and took a fang up and down the yard , joy , youngsters don't know what their missing. :P
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Mike, sea level is a complex thing indeed. I've done a lot of reading about it, but only understand it superficially. You are right that local sea level changes are relative and can be up or down. Some places for example due to a variety of factors have a falling local sea level. Others find it rising. Around Australia, generally, it's not much on the east coast but more on the west coast. Mostly due to local changes in land levels. Sea level rise generally has done nothing much at all.
Take the pacific islands that everyone calls out as the poster child for sea level rise impacts. In fact, not a helluva lot is going on there due to sea level. Much is due to over population, poor local practices, and simple hype. Yes, the sea level has been inexorably rising for centuries and the place is very low and one day it will be a problem. But it's not so much from the impacts of climate change.
Generally speaking, the argument is that melting glacial ice and warming of the oceans causes sea level rise. However there is precious little evidence for any acceleration in sea level rise rates over the past century.
As well, you can simply observe local effects. Are there any? Not really. An 8 inch rise in mean sea level over a century is pretty much unnoticeable in the real world. And in many cases it's not even that much. Yes, in some places in the world it has been more than that, but on the whole, not much is going on.
Sea level rise will only be a problem if for some reason, things change dramatically. The argument is, that 'some reason' will be global warming. But again, it would have to be some major event such as a melting of the Antarctic or Greenland ice sheets.
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Watched a Doco on sea level rise and how it affected 1 small Pacific Island.
It was very interesting.
This island is sand on top of coral.
First up they mentioned that they were now rationing fresh water as the well was running dry.
Then the speaker said that it did not rain there as much as it used too.
Then he showed the places where the sea level had risen.
Then he blamed you and me for our first world lifestyle and said we should compensate the residents for the damage we had caused by making the sea rise.
My problem with this Doco is as follows and anyone who has spent time on a sand island will understand.
[ I have been to Fraser/Stradbroke Islands many times and was lucky enough to grow up partially on Moreton Island all here in Qld.
Under all these islands is a bubble of fresh water that does not mix with the sea and you can see this by just walking along the beach because it runs out when it gets over full.
These islands also have lakes that are above sea level.
This water is brackish because of the vegetation in the sand.
The sand and vegetation act as a sponge trapping the fresh water.
So , if you pump the well dry what happens ?
The bloody sand collapses and the sea rushes in.
These people have caused their own nightmare and want to blame someone else for it and we are the only ones that will listen.
Anyhow that's enough from me , hopefully I've caused some to research instead of just believing.
This is my XR400 and I'm off for a 5 day ride no doubt causing massive amounts of damage to the environment
(http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx172/mike52_photo/27-28-29-nov2015%20ian%20n%20me/012_zpsyaeycbbf.jpg) (http://s753.photobucket.com/user/mike52_photo/media/27-28-29-nov2015%20ian%20n%20me/012_zpsyaeycbbf.jpg.html).
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Yeah, I am over too. Though I near pissed myself when I read oldyzman's and then Pokey's reply ;D ;D
I have anchored for shelter near the wrecks at Moreten, a beautiful place and a beautiful time in my life.
What a great adventure you are heading into in the next five days Mike
(http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx172/mike52_photo/27-28-29-nov2015%20ian%20n%20me/012_zpsyaeycbbf.jpg)
Enjoy and bring us back some pics, cheers.
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Never been game to put my adventures up on here Mick. Afraid of offending someone by posting away from the general theme.
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I have been thinking about this lack of a reference point. So after discussing it with my 11 year old grandson he and I are going up to Port Stephens on saturday and we are going to push a stick into the sand at the high water mark. Then in 50 years time he will go back and see how far the water is up the stick.
Zane
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At last someone is making sense..... Mick going for a ride to enjoy the great outdoors of Australia.
Enjoy Mick 8)
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Burying the head in the sand is what got us to this point. Saying it's all perfectly OK that dirt poor people can get "culled" in a natural disaster is disgraceful.
And exactly what point are we at now? Have you noticed more of your neighbours dropping dead from changes to the climate? Have they not been able to work because of weather changes?
If i had built a new house a few years ago i'd be more concerned with the extra 9% i had to pay because of this scaremongering associated with this global warming BS
In 92 the world agreed on the science and the trends. Nearly 25 yrs later when emissions have kept rising efforts to curb the use of fossil fuels get knobbled. That is a definition of head in the sand. As big Arnie said even if you don't believe in Global Warming would you be happy to be locked a room with a car with a petrol diesel or lpg engine running or a room with a car with an electric engine running.
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Don't get me wrong Mick D and Graeme I actually believe that we are trashing the place and the result will be ugly.
But what pisses me is the uneducated bullshit served to the public.
The reason I asked about the reference point is ,as Graeme picked , because there isn't one.
The whole surface of the earth is constantly moving.
Here's something that came out just the other day .
" The Arctic ice is melting at a rapid rate "
My problem with this piece of scaremongering is that " Arctic Ice " is SEA ice.
When SEA ice melts the sea level goes DOWN not up. Most of us learn't this at school and have forgotten it.
If the Antartic ice was melting then we would have a problem because it mainly rests on dirt so the sea level would go up but Antartic ice is increasing so the sea level is again going down.
We had one a while back where the "something [ don't remember the name ] " shelf in the Antartic had broken off , shock horror , sea ice again I'm sorry , so the level will go down when it melts.
When icebergs melt the sea level goes down.
MickD put up a chart showing the population increase on earth showing an increase of 5 billion people since 1900.
Consider this , the human body is 60-65% water and the amount of water in a 50kg person is 30ltr so there's another 150 billion liters of water removed from the system.
If you look at a global sea level map you will find that the level is going DOWN around Indonesia.
But again referring back to my school days surely water finds it's own level.
Could it be that the land is rising due to the shifting of the plates?
How could satellite measurements show the sea level going down in one place and going up next door.
Sorry guys , don't make sense. :o
Could it be that the EXPERTS are actually relying on computer modeling instead of reality ?
Anyhow I went riding and that fixed me for a while so I'm going again. ;D
I also pulled my two stroke husky's out of the shed and fired them up and took a fang up and down the yard , joy , youngsters don't know what their missing. :P
Not just the amount of sea ice it is also the thickness of the Arctic ice is what is of most concern. That is getting thinner and thinner each northern summer. Sea ice is a different thing that is the name suggests is the frozen ocean. At the Antarctic/Patagonia fresh water glaciers fall into the sea. From snow and ice form on the land.At school I learned things expand as they get hotter. Its not that difficult.
No agency with any credibilty is saying sea levels are going up and down in different oceans. NASA measures things from space so there is no error in there readings.
http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
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4 Days , 1400klms. Warwick to Wingham and back.
Just a couple of photos for Mick D.
Macleay River at Georges Creek
(http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx172/mike52_photo/28-2%20March%202016%20Ian%20n%20me/013_zpsi9vlzfbl.jpg) (http://s753.photobucket.com/user/mike52_photo/media/28-2%20March%202016%20Ian%20n%20me/013_zpsi9vlzfbl.jpg.html)
Spokes Trail
(http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx172/mike52_photo/28-2%20March%202016%20Ian%20n%20me/021_zpsfmciadu4.jpg) (http://s753.photobucket.com/user/mike52_photo/media/28-2%20March%202016%20Ian%20n%20me/021_zpsfmciadu4.jpg.html)
Fenwicks Rd
(http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx172/mike52_photo/28-2%20March%202016%20Ian%20n%20me/028_zpspavqfied.jpg) (http://s753.photobucket.com/user/mike52_photo/media/28-2%20March%202016%20Ian%20n%20me/028_zpspavqfied.jpg.html)
Cell River Rd
(http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx172/mike52_photo/28-2%20March%202016%20Ian%20n%20me/031_zpsouhbxcri.jpg) (http://s753.photobucket.com/user/mike52_photo/media/28-2%20March%202016%20Ian%20n%20me/031_zpsouhbxcri.jpg.html)
Cell River near Mt George
(http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx172/mike52_photo/28-2%20March%202016%20Ian%20n%20me/036_zpsvfycdz0e.jpg) (http://s753.photobucket.com/user/mike52_photo/media/28-2%20March%202016%20Ian%20n%20me/036_zpsvfycdz0e.jpg.html)
Blue Knob Lookout
(http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx172/mike52_photo/28-2%20March%202016%20Ian%20n%20me/044_zpsz8c4zwf3.jpg) (http://s753.photobucket.com/user/mike52_photo/media/28-2%20March%202016%20Ian%20n%20me/044_zpsz8c4zwf3.jpg.html)
Wilson River Rd
(http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx172/mike52_photo/28-2%20March%202016%20Ian%20n%20me/058_zps0sreeerh.jpg) (http://s753.photobucket.com/user/mike52_photo/media/28-2%20March%202016%20Ian%20n%20me/058_zps0sreeerh.jpg.html)
Oil Rig Rd
(http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx172/mike52_photo/28-2%20March%202016%20Ian%20n%20me/079_zpsmct9j70r.jpg) (http://s753.photobucket.com/user/mike52_photo/media/28-2%20March%202016%20Ian%20n%20me/079_zpsmct9j70r.jpg.html)
Tooloom Falls
(http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx172/mike52_photo/28-2%20March%202016%20Ian%20n%20me/082_zps9wqxpvgj.jpg) (http://s753.photobucket.com/user/mike52_photo/media/28-2%20March%202016%20Ian%20n%20me/082_zps9wqxpvgj.jpg.html)
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Don't get me wrong Mick D and Graeme I actually believe that we are trashing the place and the result will be ugly.
But what pisses me is the uneducated bullshit served to the public.
The reason I asked about the reference point is ,as Graeme picked , because there isn't one.
The whole surface of the earth is constantly moving.
Here's something that came out just the other day .
" The Arctic ice is melting at a rapid rate "
My problem with this piece of scaremongering is that " Arctic Ice " is SEA ice.
When SEA ice melts the sea level goes DOWN not up. Most of us learn't this at school and have forgotten it.
If the Antartic ice was melting then we would have a problem because it mainly rests on dirt so the sea level would go up but Antartic ice is increasing so the sea level is again going down.
We had one a while back where the "something [ don't remember the name ] " shelf in the Antartic had broken off , shock horror , sea ice again I'm sorry , so the level will go down when it melts.
When icebergs melt the sea level goes down.
MickD put up a chart showing the population increase on earth showing an increase of 5 billion people since 1900.
Consider this , the human body is 60-65% water and the amount of water in a 50kg person is 30ltr so there's another 150 billion liters of water removed from the system.
If you look at a global sea level map you will find that the level is going DOWN around Indonesia.
But again referring back to my school days surely water finds it's own level.
Could it be that the land is rising due to the shifting of the plates?
How could satellite measurements show the sea level going down in one place and going up next door.
Sorry guys , don't make sense. :o
Could it be that the EXPERTS are actually relying on computer modeling instead of reality ?
Anyhow I went riding and that fixed me for a while so I'm going again. ;D
I also pulled my two stroke husky's out of the shed and fired them up and took a fang up and down the yard , joy , youngsters don't know what their missing. :P
Not just the amount of sea ice it is also the thickness of the Arctic ice is what is of most concern. That is getting thinner and thinner each northern summer. Sea ice is a different thing that is the name suggests is the frozen ocean. At the Antarctic/Patagonia fresh water glaciers fall into the sea. From snow and ice form on the land.At school I learned things expand as they get hotter. Its not that difficult.
No agency with any credibilty is saying sea levels are going up and down in different oceans. NASA measures things from space so there is no error in there readings.
http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
https://www.cmar.csiro.au/sealevel/sl_hist_last_decades.html
This is at the bottom of page and it's interactive also it's based on PAST events .
The BLUE bits are where the sea level has gone down as seen from a satellite.
(http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx172/mike52_photo/Lozza_zps3ejuxjwg.jpg) (http://s753.photobucket.com/user/mike52_photo/media/Lozza_zps3ejuxjwg.jpg.html)
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blue knob lookout...doesn't look that cold to me???
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Australia has been dry before and it will be again. We are after all, the land of floods and drought.
As for March being hot, I reckon January and February were alot cooler than recent years.
The way I see it, Mother Nature doesn't stick to our calendar and the seasons have moved along in the cycle. My tomato's are still flowering and getting fruit which means the cycle of day light versus dark has moved further along the calendar. By now my fruit should be just about finished but I am still harvesting heaps. And there's no leaves falling from any trees which would ordinarily be happening this time of year. I've noticed this late blooming trend for several years now and have come to the conclusion that the cycles are the same but don't line up with the dates that the XSPURTS say are gospel....
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blue knob lookout...doesn't look that cold to me???
Still summer 80-85 , in Winter I rekon there would be plenty of Blue Knobs up there and that's probably when they named it that.
That Blue Knob Lookout is amazing , the trees go all the way to the horizon in every direction.
(http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx172/mike52_photo/28-2%20March%202016%20Ian%20n%20me/041_zpsqpfr7zco.jpg) (http://s753.photobucket.com/user/mike52_photo/media/28-2%20March%202016%20Ian%20n%20me/041_zpsqpfr7zco.jpg.html)
(http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx172/mike52_photo/28-2%20March%202016%20Ian%20n%20me/042_zpsdlmkwqjq.jpg) (http://s753.photobucket.com/user/mike52_photo/media/28-2%20March%202016%20Ian%20n%20me/042_zpsdlmkwqjq.jpg.html)
(http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx172/mike52_photo/28-2%20March%202016%20Ian%20n%20me/043_zpsl4xi2s6j.jpg) (http://s753.photobucket.com/user/mike52_photo/media/28-2%20March%202016%20Ian%20n%20me/043_zpsl4xi2s6j.jpg.html)
(http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx172/mike52_photo/28-2%20March%202016%20Ian%20n%20me/045_zpswik8yuts.jpg) (http://s753.photobucket.com/user/mike52_photo/media/28-2%20March%202016%20Ian%20n%20me/045_zpswik8yuts.jpg.html)
(http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx172/mike52_photo/28-2%20March%202016%20Ian%20n%20me/046_zps7nlcjytj.jpg) (http://s753.photobucket.com/user/mike52_photo/media/28-2%20March%202016%20Ian%20n%20me/046_zps7nlcjytj.jpg.html)
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Australia has been dry before and it will be again. We are after all, the land of floods and drought.
As for March being hot, I reckon January and February were alot cooler than recent years.
The way I see it, Mother Nature doesn't stick to our calendar and the seasons have moved along in the cycle. My tomato's are still flowering and getting fruit which means the cycle of day light versus dark has moved further along the calendar. By now my fruit should be just about finished but I am still harvesting heaps. And there's no leaves falling from any trees which would ordinarily be happening this time of year. I've noticed this late blooming trend for several years now and have come to the conclusion that the cycles are the same but don't line up with the dates that the XSPURTS say are gospel....
Science can go fork itself, right?
What you say is easily proven or disproven by the number of daylight hours on any given date. Maybe you could be the person to blow this whole Climate Change conspiracy wide open, by exposing the fallacy of the a Gregorian Calendar?
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Global warming is real, when the sun shines on my bald globe it gets hot, undisputable.
K
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Science can go fork itself, right?
What you say is easily proven or disproven by the number of daylight hours on any given date. Maybe you could be the person to blow this whole Climate Change conspiracy wide open, by exposing the fallacy of the a Gregorian Calendar?
Yep, science in this instance can go fork itself..... So can the calendar. I go by what I see and what the flora and fauna in my world show me, not what numbers are printed on a calendar. The calendar is only useful for knowing what date it is....NOT what nature is doing. I doubt that horses realise their birthday is on the 1st of August every year nor my tomatoes know the date that they should be finished fruiting by.
The planet has been cold before, the planet has been wet before, the planet has been hot before.
As humans, we are just another animal on the planet and have no control over wether we are heading for extinction or not, no more than many beasts before us have had their time ended by nature.
Luckily for humans, we have the chosen filthy rich few that will be able to jump into a space craft and head off to the space station and fork each other sensless and over populate that environment as well.
I bet both my balls that they (the chosen ones) won't be wondering how well their stocks in (insert any heavy polluting industry you like) are doing on any given day. Lucky for them they planned well and have taken suit cases full of cash so they will have something to eat and drink........Or pay someone to have their food and water.
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And the earth is flat, right?
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The headlight globe on my Bultaco gets warm.Is that global warming ?
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And the earth is flat, right?
Great comeback.
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And the earth is flat, right?
Great comeback.
if you read the first post of this thread the question is what has changed from 1933 to now ? It doesn't matter if you think that the world is flat or not but since you mentioned it when it was thought that the world was flat it took a denier to sail around the world and prove the official science of the day wrong just as later on it took a denier to prove that the earth revolved around the sun and not the sun around the earth. The alarmists don't have a good record do they? No one sailed of the edge of the world yet.
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so the planet is not being trashed! its just alarmist's getting it wrong
tell that to our extinct critter's and forest's and the fish's in the sea
forking shit up we need(the planet) to primarly make shit we dont need, but hey those sales people and polititions cant be wrong Hey!
WW1, WW2 all good, it just what we need, bit of senseless violence its good for the lad
might just step out now and go and destroy some upstart upclass's house to put back some environment But wait thats illegal, Want and go fork shit up with commerce and industry! go for it all good
Yep we got all our priorities right
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so the planet is not being trashed! its just alarmist's getting it wrong
tell that to our extinct critter's and forest's and the fish's in the sea
forking shit up we need(the planet) to primarly make shit we dont need, but hey those sales people and polititions cant be wrong Hey!
WW1, WW2 all good, it just what we need, bit of senseless violence its good for the lad
might just step out now and go and destroy some upstart upclass's house to put back some environment But wait thats illegal, Want and go fork shit up with commerce and industry! go for it all good
Yep we got all our priorities right
no one said that the planet isn't getting trashed , the planet is getting trashed. The current propaganda is distracting from that with the singular focus on climate change, do some research , you can easily find some books or online vids of prominent environmentalists arguing this fact. Meanwhile in Fukushima.........
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if you read the first post of this thread the question is what has changed from 1933 to now ? It doesn't matter if you think that the world is flat or not but since you mentioned it when it was thought that the world was flat it took a denier to sail around the world and prove the official science of the day wrong just as later on it took a denier to prove that the earth revolved around the sun and not the sun around the earth. The alarmists don't have a good record do they? No one sailed of the edge of the world yet.
Columbus/Galileo were not "deniers" at all they were heretics. Big difference between a heretic and a denier. That is despite mountains of evidence the denier still won't acknowledge they might just be wrong and stick to their opinion. A heretic is the opposite they believe evidence over popular opinion
Prominent environmentalists are not climate scientists.
What happening in Fukushima exactly?
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if you read the first post of this thread the question is what has changed from 1933 to now ? It doesn't matter if you think that the world is flat or not but since you mentioned it when it was thought that the world was flat it took a denier to sail around the world and prove the official science of the day wrong just as later on it took a denier to prove that the earth revolved around the sun and not the sun around the earth. The alarmists don't have a good record do they? No one sailed of the edge of the world yet.
Columbus/Galileo were not "deniers" at all they were heretics. Big difference between a heretic and a denier. That is despite mountains of evidence the denier still won't acknowledge they might just be wrong and stick to their opinion. A heretic is the opposite they believe evidence over popular opinion
Prominent environmentalists are not climate scientists.
What happening in Fukushima exactly?
The term heretic refers to one who goes against , ie denies the supposed truth of the established religion, :-a person believing in or practising religious heresy.
synonyms: dissident, dissenter, nonconformist, unorthodox thinker, heterodox thinker, apostate, freethinker, iconoclast, schismatic, renegade;
sceptic, agnostic, atheist, non-theist, non-believer, unbeliever, idolater, idolatress, pagan, heathen;
separatist, sectarian, revisionist;
raretergiversator, recreant, recusant, nullifidian;
archaicpaynim
ie a denier.
My point about the prominent environmentalists stands , the global warming debate has taken over all environmental issues , they don't need to be climate scientists , although many are, to see that.
Fukushima is still not contained , is still leaking radiation , is still killing sea life .This is real not a model which the climate scientists are using.
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My point about the prominent environmentalists stands , the global warming debate has taken over all environmental issues , they don't need to be climate scientists , although many are, to see that.
Fukushima is still not contained , is still leaking radiation , is still killing sea life .This is real not a model which the climate scientists are using.
And that's it in a nutshell as far as I see it.
It's seems to be OK for the big polluters to keep on polluting in Australia as long as they have carbon tax credits, or have the ability to buy someone else's! It seems ridiculous to me that a heavy polluter can buy carbon credits from a tree farmer so they can keep on polluting, making disposable crap that will go to landfill in 10 years time. Or Japan powering the city with nuclear isotopes right on the oceans edge so they have access to an easy waste dump. Chernoble is still radioactive after all this time and I read that the SA government is putting in tenders to be a global hazardous waste dump in the states north.
Anything to keep the states economy afloat and useless politicians in a job!
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Interesting Doco on SBS last night about ANGKOR in Cambodia , billed as the largest city ever built on earth.
1000 square Klms approx.
Apparently they had to abandon it in the 1400's due to Climate Change.
Huge Droughts and massive floods.
Who would have thought.
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Did they find any fossil fuels?
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Did they find any fossil fuels?
Na.
Nothing to do with humans , apparently natural.
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My point about the prominent environmentalists stands , the global warming debate has taken over all environmental issues , they don't need to be climate scientists , although many are, to see that.
Fukushima is still not contained , is still leaking radiation , is still killing sea life .This is real not a model which the climate scientists are using.
You have no point unless you back it up with actual evidence. The simple reason why Global warming is over taken other (but no less important) environmental issues is it is the most time critical one. Climate scientists are not using models now they use actual data mainly from space, the rate of climate change has exceeded modeled predictions (350ppm Co2 for a 2*C rise and CO2 is now 400ppm). There next prediction that in as little as 10yrs time there will be nothing or very little remaining of every glacier on earth. Things don't happen that fast in the natural world.
Radiation from Fukushima is leaking into the Pacific(not a good thing) but is still actually below background radiation (Dr Karl was talking about this today). There is no evidence radiation from Fukushima has had any effects on sea life. What has a much bigger effect on sea life are Fish Aggregation Devices(FADS) and the very large factory ships that use them but as they say that is another story.
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Did they find any fossil fuels?
Na.
Nothing to do with humans , apparently natural.
A bit of selective editing there.
Damian Evans a archaeologist from Sydney Uni thinks urban sprawl was as much to blame for Angor Wat's demise. Another archaeologist Mary-Beth Day said " "It's important to understand, however, that failure of the water management network was not the sole reason for the downfall of the Khmer Empire," Day added. "The collapse of Angkor was a complex process brought about by several different factors — social, political and environmental."
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Those pithy sayings we all heard and grew up with have a basis firmly lodged in history. just how far back they actually go is anyones guess but we all have heard a few.
The Maori have a saying " The water will always take back the earth" or something like that. This is self evident with erosion that we can see in real time.
another comes to mind from King Canute, Based roughly on "you cant hold back the waves".
These are things learned and passed down for us to learn from. In short its inevitable that the world will change and its not preventable but it can be slowed but to what extent and in the long run will it make that much difference?
id like to have my 18yr old body back again but its not going to happen. id like to have my track at cams wharf back but I think the resort thats built on it now would complain.Simple answer is what humans do best and that is adapt.
As the historic world changed , humans adapted to those changes and exploited what they could, humans moved across seas and land bridges and used what they found. Sure we should look to history and the industrial revolution and factories of London that poisoned the air. Sure we should look at the deforestation happening all over the world and see what it is doing . The clearing of masses of land for cotton and the water it requires. However and there is a huge however. The population is rising and this population needs resources and they will use whatever they can to survive.
What it is going to take for change is new and innovative thinking. You cannot just stop doing something. it needs to be replaced with a better machine, a new method, a new product to give people a real alternative.
Granted some new tech is not better, for this we can blame greedy government officials eager for those nice party donations, Coal seam gas comes to mind. Australia has spent a lot of money chasing this one much to the alarm of many rural communities and still the government persisted and what now? Looks like china isnt buying anymore. Blind freddie could have seen this one coming. Gives me a damn headache thinking about the corruption and damn waste displayed by governments all based on greed. And to fix this the greedy will bring out a big stick and have a war. They did it with Iraq for the oil rights and they will do it again but this time i have a feeling it wont be that simple with China and North Korea firmly involved. But the blind lead the blind and follow like lambs to the slaughter and add salt to the wound.
What we need is a new resource and we need it now. Before hell freezes over and we are faced with a nuclear winter. And will someone at least get Trump a new Wig so he doesnt look totally ridiculous when he presses the button.
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My point about the prominent environmentalists stands , the global warming debate has taken over all environmental issues , they don't need to be climate scientists , although many are, to see that.
Fukushima is still not contained , is still leaking radiation , is still killing sea life .This is real not a model which the climate scientists are using.
You have no point unless you back it up with actual evidence. The simple reason why Global warming is over taken other (but no less important) environmental issues is it is the most time critical one. Climate scientists are not using models now they use actual data mainly from space, the rate of climate change has exceeded modeled predictions (350ppm Co2 for a 2*C rise and CO2 is now 400ppm). There next prediction that in as little as 10yrs time there will be nothing or very little remaining of every glacier on earth. Things don't happen that fast in the natural world.
Radiation from Fukushima is leaking into the Pacific(not a good thing) but is still actually below background radiation (Dr Karl was talking about this today). There is no evidence radiation from Fukushima has had any effects on sea life. What has a much bigger effect on sea life are Fish Aggregation Devices(FADS) and the very large factory ships that use them but as they say that is another story.
What flavour Kool aide is that?
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Just what the world needs Trump on one side and Putin on the other then toss in Kim Jong-un and whoever happens to be leading Indonesia at the moment. I think it used to be Ying yang ching chang chitti chitti bang bang or something like that,
all level headed sensible people.
Zane
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I also heard he is permitting two strokes again in USA , if elected .
You saw it on FaceBook, so it must be true?
Trump is a sad, lonely little man who needs far more money and affirmation to get through the day. I feel sorry for him - he clearly had a very unpleasant childhood, and has not been able to move on.
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I hope trumps a member on here! then I could tell the Dick head what a wanker he is!
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Invest ya money in an ice works and a flame thrower manufacturer, Ya safe and set on all fronts! ;)
and just in case , be very very nice to cockroaches ;)
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Ever thought about the cave man. He had fresh clean air, clean water, plenty of exercise. everythging they ate was organic or free range and yet they only lived to be about 30.
Zane
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m.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/true-shocker-spike-in-global-temperatures-stuns-scientists-20160313-gni10t.html#ixzz42rucQklQ
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How about grants for feminist perspectives .... and you still wonder why it's referred to as a scam!
https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/doomed-planet/2016/03/settled-science-grant-snaffling/
The Settled Science of Grant Snaffling
Perthaps you read about the recent academic paper which examined glaciers from a feminist perspective, an exercise that cost US taxpayers some $413,000. Well, the paper itself should prompt not laughter but outrage, not least because Australian "social scientists" are on the same gravy train
ice manFeminist glacier studies, an expanding field of academic climate-science rigor, sometimes needs an R-rating. Like this new feminist glacier research from a team led by Professor Mark Carey at the University of Oregon. Carey scored a $US413,000 grant in 2013 for his glacier research, with the paper being one output from it. It is titled “Glaciers, gender, and science: A feminist glaciology framework for global environmental change research.”
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Woops , this can't be correct because todays charts don't mention it.
http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0007/000748/074891eo.pdf
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Geez your a shit stirrer Mike ::) ;D ;D
Thank fug at least we know Ethanol isn't the answer ;D ;D ;D
I reckon this is the answer
(http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx172/mike52_photo/28-2%20March%202016%20Ian%20n%20me/042_zpsdlmkwqjq.jpg)
Now that's living :) no need for a 205 liter drum and a 4WD. Awsome stuff :)
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I know that this post is old hat but new information has come to light and Graeme was interested in this stuff.
These are OBSERVATION ONLY findings as verses computer modeling maybe's.
http://us4.campaign-archive1.com/?u=c920274f2a364603849bbb505&id=d9092b5c3c&e=737a3a5151
5 seconds of research shows that this "organisation" is not one to give any credence to.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Warming_Policy_Foundation
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Agreed. I put no credence in anything that Wikipedia publish.
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Agreed. I put no credence in anything that Wikipedia publish.
yeah I know what you mean, just couldn't be arsed giving any more of my time dealing with this this alfoil-hat wearing garbage
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Siberia's taiga is the worlds largest forest. It contributes 30% CO2. Does that mean we should cut down more trees?
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Siberia's taiga is the worlds largest forest. It contributes 30% CO2. Does that mean we should cut down more trees?
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/boreal-forest-breathes-deep-and-climate-change-pause/
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Geez your a shit stirrer Mike ::) ;D ;D
Thank fug at least we know Ethanol isn't the answer ;D ;D ;D
I reckon this is the answer
(http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx172/mike52_photo/28-2%20March%202016%20Ian%20n%20me/042_zpsdlmkwqjq.jpg)
Now that's living :) no need for a 205 liter drum and a 4WD. Awsome stuff :)
Been there Mick , nice spot.
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I know that this post is old hat but new information has come to light and Graeme was interested in this stuff.
These are OBSERVATION ONLY findings as verses computer modeling maybe's.
http://us4.campaign-archive1.com/?u=c920274f2a364603849bbb505&id=d9092b5c3c&e=737a3a5151
5 seconds of research shows that this "organisation" is not one to give any credence to.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Warming_Policy_Foundation
And another 5 secs would have shown that the researcher has the credentials.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ole_Humlum
You'll have to try harder than that, this search only took 30 seconds...
https://www.skepticalscience.com/humlum-at-it-again.html
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Bugger global warming!! In real life a Doctor suggested I try "sushi with kale*" in my diet....that's an emergency. :P
*cold rice, snot and raw Nemo fish wrapped in unbleached green toilet paper served with rank lawn clippings
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where was that photo taken? Looks like a barrington tops ride. Did malcom naden frequent the area in his outlaw days? I betcha if you rode there in the winter you would be asking for global warming.
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where was that photo taken? Looks like a barrington tops ride. Did malcom naden frequent the area in his outlaw days? I betcha if you rode there in the winter you would be asking for global warming.
Blue Knob Lookout , Knodingbul Rd , Doyles River , NSW.
South west of Wauchope.
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Sat down and thought about this and changed my mine so here it is again.
http://us4.campaign-archive1.com/?u=c920274f2a364603849bbb505&id=d9092b5c3c&e=737a3a5151
The reason I have re posted it is because if the best the experts can come up with is a Wikapedia condemnation of the publisher and some guy on a blog somewhere by the name of julienx2k2 ,who you may notice is too gutless to put his real name to his outdated criticisms ,then there may be some credence to the report.
If you don't want to read the report then don't .
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"There is little doubt that we are living in a warm period. However, there is also little doubt that current climate change is not abnormal and not outside the range of natural variations that might be expected.”
sort of what I thought.... I have no reservations about cutting pollutants and we must curb plastics as they have effectively killed the oceans but I have been looking to see the oceans rise and flood everywhere but it still hasn't....
my daughter goes to a "paleo osteopath" (don't ask me ::) and he rekons were in for an ice age!! best start knitting!