OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Tech Talk => Topic started by: skypig on November 29, 2015, 11:18:02 am
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Dear esteemed mechanically experienced ones.
A very non mechanically minded friend of mine suffered this failure while driving on a family holiday.
It's a late model VW Multivan.
I've never seen such a thing. The only reason I can imagine is a metaralurgically faulty valve.
Eg impurity in the original metal. (But I'm no expert)
Obviously the piston has suffered damage. And probably the bore.
Comments?
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff310/skypig/image_6.jpeg)
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At least that VW diesel has a valid excuse for high un-burnt emissions ;D
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Disappointing for a 2010 model with 122 000 kms!
Seems faulty to me. A moral warrenty claim?
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Different
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looks like a small star bolt has been punched through it....
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Jump onto the class action against VW and sue the poofters. I guess its diesel?
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Check Fuel Fitter , Air Leak , Pump , Injector
Something has made it lean out to burn out the Valve ...
Blocked Exhaust ??
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To my more than weary ancient eyes that looks like mechanical rather than chemical damage. rest of the head looks normal with no hot spots. A foreign body has entered the CC and popped that nice hole in the valve, even touched the seat a bit. Its probably sitting in the sump now. Look for missing bolts or pins in the intake. I will sit over here with 80-85 husky and see what turns up.
or
The VW software has kicked in as it wasnt being tested then it malfunctioned and and misread the meaning to open exhaust valve just a bit wider to let more go fast smoke out. ;)
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had a colorada go onto three cylinders at work a few months ago. four valve heads one intake port per cylinder controlled by butterfly small screws hold them in place just like in carby screws fall out disc gets sucked into valve seat holds valve open, a little bit of a mess but no valve damage a few marks on piston where screws have passed through what was left of the screws must have passed through the turbo as well no damage there either just lucky i guess. it would be interesting to see what the valve clearance was only need a very small defect in a valve seat for a valve to burn with a tight clearance. Now if it had been an old VW 1600 or even a 1200 valve failure on them was mostly catastrophic in Qld we fitted cast iron valve guides and a big oil cooler and never had the head fall off another valve we used to do the same on the Z900 and 1000 engines we built for racing. just a thought Pokey how would anything get from the cylinder to the sump?
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Aliens
Do actually go along with the foreign object carried down induction theory. Or focd it....
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It is quite simply just a burnt out valve.
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I'd say burnt valve as well. Won't be a lean out as on a diesel lean running just gives less power and lower exhaust temps.
Could be caused by a over fueling or even a valve clearance being to close.
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It looks text book to me and was always going to happen in the area where it did.
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its the inlet valve or ex ?
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being smaller, I would expect inlet valve. meaning it should be well shut when a combustion event takes place.
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its the inlet valve or ex ?
being smaller, I would expect inlet valve. meaning it should be well shut when a combustion event takes place.
It is the exhaust valve that is burnt out.
I have never seen an engine that has larger exhaust than inlet valves.
Its all about getting air in. Some engines even use two inlets and only one exhaust.
Occasionally inlet valves can fail, but super unusual that they fail to this extent.
This is the type of failure that is mainly reserved for exhaust valves.
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All I'll say is that it is 11:30pm, much wine has been drunk and I stand corrected.
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I concur Fred, good night mate.
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The mechanic that tore it down is the one privy to all the clues.
That chamber carbon is soaked with fuel whilst still hot, the vehicle was driven on with the injector still working after this pot gave up.
a pitty the pic doesn't include the other pots for comparison.
There was no fuel starvation or air in this fuel system.
If it were going to burn a valve, the most likely place is along this red line. It is the line that hot spots occur along and for good reason.
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/image_6_zps8v2nvq5z.jpeg~original)
If I were tearing down? The next thing I would do would be to scrape the carbon of the valves and head, for the sake of measuring valve recession.
Use a straight edge accross the head and feeler gauges between the rule and valve head to calculate recession.
The head of these valves should be sitting up near level with the head surface, like one of the inlets still seems to be. It may be an optical illusion though? That does not look to be the case here but. Measurement? The more an exhaust valve recedes,,the hotter it runs and another of a few factors that the stage was being set for this burn out failure.
For only 122,000 klms, only 76,000 miles, the exhaust valves already sunk in this much, spells nothing short of complete and utter junk. Don't forget a hell of a lot of plain old Commodore and Ford taxis did 600,000. Then another 400,000 after a head and de-coke job. A million Klms, around town hard flog miles, on dry old LPG. This thing only 122,000 and valves already sinking=JUNK.
Off the track for a moment,,,,
A good way to speculate what the phony software is about,,,, get a dyno certificate before the fix and then another after. Compare. A simple reason for cheating on emissions testing might be for the sake of dazzling your audience and outperforming the opposition?
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I thought the whole emissions scam was about gaining approval to sell the cars in various countries without doing the hard work to get them to pass.
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its the inlet valve or ex ?
being smaller, I would expect inlet valve. meaning it should be well shut when a combustion event takes place.
It is the exhaust valve that is burnt out.
my point exactly, so narrows down the prognossis ;)
I have never seen an engine that has larger exhaust than inlet valves.
Its all about getting air in. Some engines even use two inlets and only one exhaust.
Occasionally inlet valves can fail, but super unusual that they fail to this extent.
This is the type of failure that is mainly reserved for exhaust valves.
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I thought the whole emissions scam was about gaining approval to sell the cars in various countries without doing the hard work to get them to pass.
So what is the hard work? that would have gained approval without cheating and lying in the first place.
VW are now saying that the fix only requires one model to have a sensor installed then a software amendment.
And that all other effected models are software amendments only.
The diesel engines that I have done extensive work on(80+ complete overhauls+a huge amount of servicing)
Are slower revving engines and that is one reason why they run 24/7 x 365 x numerous years, whilst being totally dependable with very slow wear rates. VW and Audi have turned these dependable Clydesdales into high revving
high performance engines that have dazzled the masses.
Pardon me from being suspicious, but what is the real reason they would put the engine into a different run mode when it recognizes it is being emission tested? And at what sacrifice and true cost is that less polluting test mode?
I said,
A good way to speculate what the phony software is about,,,, get a dyno certificate before the fix and then another after. Compare. A simple reason for cheating on emissions testing might be for the sake of dazzling your audience and outperforming the opposition?
To speculate, to compare, why did they really falsify? When they could have just run the vehicle in a continuous compliant mode all along?
If it is as simple a fix as a software amendment to get the right emissions readings out of the engines exhaust, then why was it not done in the first place and what was the true trade off?
The cost has to be met "some where", or there would have been no point to the deception!
Hard to believe that it will not be some measure of performance to be paid.
A certified dyno chart before and after would shine the truth on those that have proven beyond any reasonable doubt that "they cannot be trusted to tell the truth" unless held to account.
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In my training, I remember a teacher saying that the "wear rate" increases proprtionally as engine RPM increases. I cannot remember the exact formula? But I do remember that part of the mathematical formula was
To "cube" the wear rate per every certain amount of RPM increase figure? Keep the revs going up and see what happens.
I am saying this looks like a large amount of wear(valve recession) for an engine that has only done 122,000 kilometers.
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/image_6_zps8v2nvq5z.jpeg~original)
I am suggesting they are a long way from making a higher revving, high performance diesel worthy of the sustained mechanical reliability and more to the point durability that we once took for granted when talking Diesel engines.
I am saying that a dyno may be the way to shine the spotlight of honesty on those who are not.
Are we that gullible as a world population that we would simply believe again those who are unbelievable?
Please ::)
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I agree with Mick D, except I don't think the valves have recessed (much) from new.
The angled area around the valve is noticeably larger in diameter than the diameter of the valve head, - and this is true of all four valves. For whatever reason, VW designed the motor like that.
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When you put it that way mick i must agree. all that oil has disguised just how hot that cylinder was. the glow plug is also missing so we cant check that either. Hmmm sell the VW for scrap and buy an aircooled two stroke.
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Whats a valve anyway ? ???
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I thought the whole emissions scam was about gaining approval to sell the cars in various countries without doing the hard work to get them to pass.
They had a high performance motor that couldn't meet emissions standards. VW set it up so the computer (motor) would provide acceptable emission levels while being tested (in neutral in a workshop) and then recognise when the car was on the road and it would switch off its emission devices and provide performance, but it couldn't meet emission standards then.
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clever little germans....just as the aussies would have done....
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Whats a valve anyway ? ???
you know... reed valve
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Some interesting information and speculation (and quite frankly some pretty average 2 stroke jokes ;) - I'll get the mechanic to check the powerband is not stretched ;D )
Unfortunately, this has happened while my mate and his young family are on the other side of the country, with no transport home! I can't help/speak to the mechanic/look at some of the suggestions above.
I still think it's an odd looking failure, but some think, and I'm not experienced enough to argue, that it's a straight forward "burnt valve"?
One thing that is beyond dispute: It shouldn't fail in family van, driven and maintained "normally" by a family at 122 000km.
I wonder if VW are interested in contributing to a solution? Pathetic if they aren't.
Now I'm going to play "Smoke on the water" on some reed valves..... 8)
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I thought the whole emissions scam was about gaining approval to sell the cars in various countries without doing the hard work to get them to pass.
They had a high performance motor that couldn't meet emissions standards. VW set it up so the computer (motor) would provide acceptable emission levels while being tested (in neutral in a workshop) and then recognise when the car was on the road and it would switch off its emission devices and provide performance, but it couldn't meet emission standards then.
I worked for a large car maker in Geelong in their emission laboratory for 20 years and to get a vehicle to pass emissions it has to be driven on a chassis dyno to a euro set drive cycle (city/country combination) in temperatures of 26c to -27c depending on the market it is to be sold whilst the exhaust gases are drawn off to be tested for chemical and gas composition and in the diesel case passed through a filter as well to collect particulates , the filter is weighed in a clean room before and after to determine what is coming out of the vehicle so if VW set it up for just idle test then lied about the drive cycle they are in deep sh£t (sorry nothing to do with the valve)
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wouldnt any car be tested by a government gas testing station before getting approval or do they just take the car makers word but its within the limits set by that country?
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The EPA in Victoria is useless in the extreme in vehicle testing and closed their lab years ago not sure about other states , NSW had there own lab but I'm not sure it still exist either , the manufacturer has there own testing labs and is self regulated pretty much and submits their results to the appropriate government body.The other manufacturer in Australia a fair while ago use to work out there fuel economy figures differently , until it was brought to their attention by other entities and they quickly changed their process for doing it , it didnt effect their emissions but it looked good in the magazines and windscreen sticker so its not new to cheat a bit.
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I worked for a large car maker in Geelong in their emission laboratory for 20 years and to get a vehicle to pass emissions it has to be driven on a chassis dyno to a euro set drive cycle (city/country combination) in temperatures of 26c to -27c depending on the market it is to be sold whilst the exhaust gases are drawn off to be tested for chemical and gas composition and in the diesel case passed through a filter as well to collect particulates , the filter is weighed in a clean room before and after to determine what is coming out of the vehicle so if VW set it up for just idle test then lied about the drive cycle they are in deep sh£t (sorry nothing to do with the valve)
I believe what VW did was: put software in that detected if the vehicle was subjected to a test like the one described above, by sensing if all 4 wheels were rotating, and if any "steering" was being inputed.
If the software detected a test (city/country driving with only drive wheels rotating, zero steering input). The software would change the ECU to "pollution mode" - think LEAN!
Under normal driving conditions (all wheels rotating, steering inputs) the ECU reverts to normal/"power" mode.
So the "authorities" could dyno test any vehicle and it would pass. Strap the pollution measuring gear on and drive down the road - FAIL!
Naughty!
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so who else got to remove the intake /exhaust restricters from the toees bitd BEFORE releasing to the customers ;D, :P
ps & dropping the c/shaft sprocket size AFTER the rideby noise test
pps they soon twigged to that,then it was certain high revs rideby test
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The main reason why the Commodores of the last ~15 years have 6-speed manual gearboxes is to pass emissions testing.
One test is/was to drive at 80kph in top gear, then floor it at a specifics point, and the noise level is measured X metres further along.
The taller the gearing is, the less the car has accelerated at the test point, and the quieter it is... Lots of modified cars fail simply because they've accelerated to a higher speed/engine speed.
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better economy figures are also arrived at with just a tall enough top gear to give you what you need in testing.
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Scientists have proved that by far the worse vehicular pollution on our roads is indeed diesel fumes.
Chronic exposure is where some live near busy streets and highways. Especially "downwind" of uphill grades.
Google it, real bad shit, especially for the the developing brains of children. Really bad for lungs, Cancer etc, etc.
After reading it, only a fool wouldn't move his young family away from a busy uphill grade where diesels over-fuel.
VW would no doubt be aware of this risk and why regulations are in place. Performance sells. VW management conspired to employ a cheat mode for no other reason than to sell more vehicles.
What a bunch of immoral conspiring mongrels to poison populations that had regulations in place to protect themselves.
I reckon this helps to get one question out of the way.
Disappointing for a 2010 model with 122 000 kms!
Seems faulty to me. A moral warrenty claim?
Nothing Moral about this mob!
So I would say no.
Given that VW just borrowed 24 BILLION today to stay afloat whilst fixing this mess.
The Exon Valdez incident cost only 7 billion.
Of no relative concern ::) Exon sold Esso Australia to pay for that cock up.
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I believe I know why this engine burnt out that valve.
Like the sum result of many failures, this one can be attributed to a series of factors.
I am going to bed and then work first though.
I am puzzled that no one has challenged me on one of those important factors
This one
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/image_6_zps8v2nvq5z.jpeg~original)
Because of design, the Hot-spots that occur in this engine naturally occur in a pattern along this red circle line.
These hot Spots are significantly at raised risk when the vehicle goes in a over-fuel, overload situation.
One thing that makes a good truck driver is an understanding of the importance of knowing and monitoring their engine through their instruments and know if its time to back off a bit, apply "Mechanical Sympathy" and watch their gauges head back towards normal before stuff likes this happens.
In contrast to this,,,,bed time
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thats interesting about diesels and the polution they cause and makes me think i made a wise move in 1986 when the DCM letters were being handed out when i worked underground as a trades assistant on loaders and tamrock multiboom drilling jumbos though everything was gas tested often and sorted if the reading were above the limits and they used low smoke diesel in them. at the same time in other countries diesels were banned from underground mines and they could only use electric loaders with big trailing cables on them,now i know why >:(
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Obviously the piston has suffered damage. And probably the bore.
Do you actually know that to be the case?
I imagine if it were? That most likely you would have received a picture of that as well?
Out of all the tea leaves that need to read, we only have a few.
There has been many a valve burnt out without any harm to piston or bore.
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thats interesting about diesels and the polution they cause and makes me think i made a wise move in 1986 when the DCM letters were being handed out when i worked underground as a trades assistant on loaders and tamrock multiboom drilling jumbos though everything was gas tested often and sorted if the reading were above the limits and they used low smoke diesel in them. at the same time in other countries diesels were banned from underground mines and they could only use electric loaders with big trailing cables on them,now i know why >:(
Something to be great-full about there Matt. Your away from it.
I heard about the dangers of it years ago, sick off smelling diesel fumes from being down wind of the buses, so I campaigned to get the route changed(using a different reason) ;D And Succeeded,,,,,again ;D ;)
I have googled and read a bit about this pollution in the last few days, a hell of a lot of reason for concern. Make sure your kids are not growing up breathing it.
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yeah the hot spot is between the 2 exhaust valves and the 2 into 1 exhaust port and the more pounds of fuel burnt means more heat to get rid of though most diesels have alot thicker radiator cores then there petrol cousins have. maybe these new wizz bang high speed commonrail turbo diesels are putting out too much power to be reliable if pushed too hard compared to the old diesels which didnt have much go 15yrs back
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Obviously the piston has suffered damage. And probably the bore.
Do you actually know that to be the case?
I imagine if it were? That most likely you would have received a picture of that as well?
Out of all the tea leaves that need to read, we only have a few.
There has been many a valve burnt out without any harm to piston or bore.
I'm only getting the info secondhand.
Damaged piston was mentioned.
The latest is "the turbo, injectors, and a 'brand new engine' are required".
Doesn't make any sense to me. Could a piece of turbo been ingested?
I doubt whether it was being (or ever) driven hard. Three little kids in it.
It might have been driven extra slow for a few sections of the last trip. Following a cyclist in training. I wonder if really slow driving would do anything? (Normal speed and conditions when it let go.)
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I would be surprised if VW didn't fix this for free, get it taken to a dealer and jump up and down..... they will fix it.....Had a customers Passat with injector problems [well known in the industry for quite a few years], had done 150K's, 6 years old so way out of warranty, guess what, they replaced all the injectors for free. Another with a shitbox Ammarok that the fanbelt shredded and bits got behind the plastic timing belt cover....bent all the valves...3 months out of warranty but dealer serviced....they towed it away, put a brand new head on it in 2 days [they keep complete heads in stock for them....very common failure]...all for free....VW = German for shitbox.....lol.....they have lots more problems than just dodgy engine management systems. Go on Google....lots of happy customers....not.
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Oz have some pretty good warranty regs. Sure someone can say it has two years 40 thou warranty but that means diddly squat if pushed. There is an implied warranty that states the product must last for a reasonable expected time period. If you feel that the failed product should have reasonably lasted in a servicable condition for linger than the stated period then by law the manufacturer has a duty to repair or replace at their discretion. In other words.. jump up and down.
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I would be surprised if VW didn't fix this for free, get it taken to a dealer and jump up and down..... they will fix it.....Had a customers Passat with injector problems [well known in the industry for quite a few years], had done 150K's, 6 years old so way out of warranty, guess what, they replaced all the injectors for free. Another with a shitbox Ammarok that the fanbelt shredded and bits got behind the plastic timing belt cover....bent all the valves...3 months out of warranty but dealer serviced....they towed it away, put a brand new head on it in 2 days [they keep complete heads in stock for them....very common failure]...all for free....VW = German for shitbox.....lol.....they have lots more problems than just dodgy engine management systems. Go on Google....lots of happy customers....not.
Thats a good read John, a bout time you weighed in . so who would buy a s/h VW out of warranty?
no one with any sense according to the two mechanics in my side street. My friend with a top of the line vw toerag reckons he got a bill from vw for $3,300 for a brake reline and general service.
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A mate who worked for VW in parts from when he left school at 15 until he retired at 65 a couple of years ago said that Toerags where the worst vehicle that VW ever made....he'd seen them all....could recite Vdub part numbers like the ABC..... ;D.....yea Micky D....you wouldn't want to own one or be a dealer...a company I know with a big Crafter van in 200K's....2 turbo's, 2 6 speed gearbox's and the injectors done amongst the A/cond failing and other little gremblem's....all done under warranty...even at 180K's.....zero quality....as Billy said, 2 world wars, 2 world cups....lol.
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The head is flat, it forms one boundary of combustion. So it will be running a "Dish top piston" to form a combustion chamber
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/107.831_zpsikwbc5du.jpg~original)
The outer flat rim of that piston runs very close to the head at TDC. the valve spring does not have enough stored energy to slam that valve shut and punch out that missing shape(valves and seats are very tough). if there were a foreign body some how come through and lodged between valve face and seat that wide rim on the piston would have smashed the crap out of the valve, yet there is absolutely not one bit of witness on the carbon on the valve head to that effect. If it were a foreign body there would be witness all over the joint.
I know your only getting second hand info, so are we, makes things difficult for all.
If it has been dealer serviced Johns advice of going to a dealer rep is obvious and sound, but hard if they are stranded miles from no where? without premium road side assist? it would be a hell stressful time for them
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A mate who worked for VW in parts from when he left school at 15 until he retired at 65 a couple of years ago said that Toerags where the worst vehicle that VW ever made....he'd seen them all....could recite Vdub part numbers like the ABC..... ;D.....yea Micky D....you wouldn't want to own one or be a dealer...a company I know with a big Crafter van in 200K's....2 turbo's, 2 6 speed gearbox's and the injectors done amongst the A/cond failing and other little gremblem's....all done under warranty...even at 180K's.....zero quality....as Billy said, 2 world wars, 2 world cups....lol.
;D ;D now don't antagonise them ;D sport is for bring us all together ::)
Gord, no wonder they lost they war, thank fug they were driving vw's ;D
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Don't mention the war! You'll upset someone...
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"they could only use electric loaders with big trailing cables on them", Powered by ducking great portable diesel powered generators above ground........ ::)
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A mate of mine who has been a lover of VW's all of his adult life, often rips me off about owning a Harley, old joke about when am I going to buy the ute.
I remind him that if VW's are so good why do they always have at least 2 wrecks in their back yard to keep the parts up to the one they are driving.
Zane
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mobil (my old Brother in law) had a toerag and what a stormer of a car...(when it ran) it blew the turbo and vdub fixed that but it filled the cats with oil..15k or so and he had a hell of a fight to get that fixed...picked it up after 3 months off the road and the air suspension blew out....he bought a jeep!
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Was at a mates dyno shop yesterday picking up a car, they had an Audi A4, only a few years old get towed in, the DPF filled up and the guy kept driving it for another 6 months with the warning light on......Audi's quote to fix it was $22K......even the dealers have no clue how to fix things.....just replace everything....modern diesels are scary things....I guess that's why the Yanks still put V8 petrols in everything.
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"mobil (my old Brother in law) had a toerag and what a stormer of a car...(when it ran) it blew the turbo and vdub fixed that but it filled the cats with oil..15k or so and he had a hell of a fight to get that fixed...picked it up after 3 months off the road and the air suspension blew out....he bought a jeep!"
Out of the frying pan.............
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Modern diesels are scary.
I had a mechanic tell me the (non turbo 5 cyl) in my current old van should last 500 000km, if I don't look after it. A million if I do. God it's slow though.
After test driving a new Mercedes Sprinter and a Ford Transit, and considering a VW Crafter, I've ordered a Transit.
I'm a bit scared, but at least it has a 5 year warrenty.
My '73 Transit (with Falcon engine/gearbox/diff) was a great car.
They have been known as Ford Tragic Vans for a while.
I'm hoping the new one is ok. Drives great.
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Was at a mates dyno shop yesterday picking up a car, they had an Audi A4, only a few years old get towed in, the DPF filled up and the guy kept driving it for another 6 months with the warning light on......Audi's quote to fix it was $22K......even the dealers have no clue how to fix things.....just replace everything....modern diesels are scary things....I guess that's why the Yanks still put V8 petrols in everything.
$22K for a filter! that can't be cleaned or reset :o :o :o :o ,,,geebuz, allah, budda,,,,, Adolfs revenge!
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ok whats a DPF for the veiwers not in the car game?
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ok whats a DPF for the veiwers not in the car game?
Its a filter that goes on the exhaust of Diesels to removes Particle matter, Diesel particulate filter.
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ok whats a DPF for the veiwers not in the car game?
ok whats a DPF for the veiwers not in the car game?
Its a filter that goes on the exhaust of Diesels to removes Particle matter, Diesel particulate filter.
I think scrubber tanks filled with water do this best for confined spaces etc.
The diesel emissions are run through a tank of water ;D true ;)
They have to be serviced every day though. That is; cleaned out and refilled. this where neglect on a daily basis leads to instant dangerous levels of high pollution though.
You would be horribly amazed at what gets drained out from a 24 hour operation of just a tiny 2 liter diesel engine. I have always thought a case of matter cohesiveness.
The water stays as water. The black particulate matter groups together in balls ranging from the beginnings of balls, then up to sizes of an inch and a half. It is a real way to collect and see what comes out of a diesel exhaust and wake up to what is being breathed otherwise, it blew me away ??? Any one who has ever seen it cannot but help to be totally gob-smacked.
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ok now i know what DPF's are so do all these modern wizz bang diesel cars/utes have them or just high end cars like audi's?
i remember usa wagner brand loaders had water scrubbers on them but they soon got bypassed and fitted with cat converters instead which did nothing to catch the micro carbon particles, being only 19yo at the time i had no idea about what the micro carbon particles would be doing to my lungs and over all live span but i sure know now yet 37 yrs have gone by and the companies in aussie are still using diesels underground though the motors are now running modern common rail injection systems now and they have filters on the sealed airconditioned cabins so the drivers arnt coping as much shite as before with open cabins
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not much good for us geos wandering around underground breathing crap! :-[
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My "work ride" burns 780 L of "kero" (JetA1) an hour.
I'm glad the particulate is behind me - makes the tail boom pretty black after a while.
The van actually loses a little power if it accidentally gets filled with Jet. (And a dash of oil)
I wouldn't run it in a turbo/common rail diesel.
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If Envy is a sin, then I am a sinner ;D
Now back to the cancer,,,worked in the fuel industry for about 5.5years,
I get a questionnaire every subsequent year, so see if I am still alive :o ::)
Yes Kero is just JetA1 with a blue dye added. Latter proven that it is the dye that is/was the main cancer causing component.
I don't know if the same dye is still used??
But the use of gloves around your parts washer makes sense.
Long fuel and chemical proof gauntlets = $4.75
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wow this just gets worse so the kero with the blue dye in it did it cause the cancer by contact or by burning it? and why did they need to use the dye as the smell of it tells you what it is. my old boss liked using kero in the parts cleaner which i never liked coz of the smell and it dried out my skin badly but my home parts cleaner ive always used diesel in it as never worn gloves as cant feel though them when cleaning those little bits inside chainsaw carbies
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Everyone hates wearing a glove :D
Not everyone has a sense of smell and add to that the fact that they actually make an odorless(or low odor kero)
Safest approach is to believe that everything gives you cancer, especially if it is from the chemical or oil industry.
Probably too late to glove up now, by the sound of things you should be half dead already ;D
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"by the sounds of things you proberly should be half dead already" yeah some days i feel like that but the human body is an amazing thing that keeps on keeping on as long as you dont adbuse it too often for too long and sure glad i got out of the mines when i did and now i spend most of my time living on a farm though thats only half a kay from hiway number 1 but rarely do i hear or smell the traffic on it but great for jumping on the bike anytime i want to do abit of circle work ;D ;)
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we owned a service station from the 70's to the late 80's. I lived in a pit of fuel. I would carry over to the pumps a tub of muddaboik bits and turn on the super pump and fill er up for a big scrubbing...finish it off with a wash with a mix of kero and comprox and hose er all off into the gutter :o...those were the days!
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we owned a service station from the 70's to the late 80's. I lived in a pit of fuel. I would carry over to the pumps a tub of muddaboik bits and turn on the super pump and fill er up for a big scrubbing...finish it off with a wash with a mix of kero and comprox and hose er all off into the gutter :o...those were the days!
Don't worry: "Super" was organic wholemeal. (A bit like the asbestos I was exposed to during my trade)
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Back a few years ago went for the standard 50 year olds medical and they handed me a form asking what have I been exposed to
dust yes
asbestos yes
other man made fibre's yes
radiation yes
petro chemicals yes
sun exposure yes
other chemicals and or carcinogenics yes
are you or have you smoked yes
do you consume alcohol Der of course yes
so from what I can see Ive had a pretty full life :o ???
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Sort of reminds me about the older bloke starting to panic and goes to the doctor;
"I want to live to a hundred Doc! I have started exercising and given up smoking"
>"What about drinking and loose women? have you given them up too?"
"yes Doc! no more of that for me!"
>"So, why, do you want to live to a hundred ?" ;D
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Ah good one Mick,
the other day I went to the doctors, took my wife cos me hearing aint to good
anywho long story short, doc says hmm gunna nead some samples!
we want a urine sample
a pheasy sample
a blood sample
and while we are at it a sperm sample
I said hey what did he say! the wife said HE WANTS YOUR UNDER PANTS :o :-[
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Back a few years ago went for the standard 50 year olds medical and they handed me a form asking what have I been exposed to
dust yes
asbestos yes
other man made fibre's yes
radiation yes
petro chemicals yes
sun exposure yes
other chemicals and or carcinogenics yes
are you or have you smoked yes
do you consume alcohol Der of course yes
so from what I can see Ive had a pretty full life :o ???
So you got 100% in the test! Well done! :)
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Back a few years ago went for the standard 50 year olds medical and they handed me a form asking what have I been exposed to
dust yes
asbestos yes
other man made fibre's yes
radiation yes
petro chemicals yes
sun exposure yes
other chemicals and or carcinogenics yes
are you or have you smoked yes
do you consume alcohol Der of course yes
so from what I can see Ive had a pretty full life :o ???
So you got 100% in the test! Well done! :)
;D ;D ;D :o hey yer finally passed a test, thanks Nathan :) :D ;D 8)
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I filled out my "go to hospital" form the other day and in the "how much booze do you consume?" I wrote moderate to lots!
it was the first thing the quack asked me about!! he said "how much is lots?"
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A co-worker told his doctor that he drank 10-15 stubbies every night.
Predictably, the doctor had a bit of a double take, so my co-worker said "that's on week-nights. I drink more on weekends".
Worrying bit is that nobody is sure if he was exaggerating or not...
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Update.
VW did the right thing and replaced the engine.
It probably didn't hurt that the "victims" have a media profile. (The trip was a fund raiser for charity and they got some TV time.)
Regardless. Good result and well done VW.
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Good outcome. Probably not many companies less able to weather bad publicity than VW right now...