OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: skypig on October 26, 2015, 10:07:22 am
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His Thursday press conference saying Mark Marquez is working with Lorenzo wasn't even backed up by the events (let alone results). Marky Mark rode like a magician to take 5 points from Gerorge on the last lap of the Australian GP (the event being discussed.)
Then in the race yesterday, after some of the best/hardest/clean racing you'll ever see; Rossi "brake checks", runs compleatly off line to force MM of the track, and depending on your point of view, kicks at his rival.
Anybody else would have been DQ'd immediately.
Rossi and the FIM have both lost a lot of respect from me.
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What's worse is the net forums are full of his dickhead, one-eyed supporters whinging that he's hard done by.
Still no mention of any extra penalty for failing to attend the compulsory press conference, either...
I think you're right Piggy, he seems to be coming unravelled.
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apparently everyone else took note of rossi's press conference winge,except maybe mark,oops,bring back the biffo ha ha :P
ps he's not insane,just italian
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I burnt my Rossi T shirt and posters yesterday afternoon.
The "EVIL" Doctor
He now slips off any chance of being on the GOAT list as far as many are concerned.
Seeing the reaction of his own team garage was all you really needed to see. They realised what he had done as it was happening and just looked stunned and turned away.
The greatest respect for Rossi up to that point. He almost did the same thing back with Stoner.
Lorenzo for Champ!!! Did not think I would ever say that
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Clear as day he kicked out at him, and lies about it, trying to justify his actions after the fact. Poor sportmanship in the extreme, certainly changed my opinion of him forever.
He was probably slowing Marquez up more than the other way around. If he had half a brain he would have tagged on the back and tried to get a tow up front.
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Only a prompt admission, and apology will allow me to "support" him ever again.
Can't see it forthcoming myself.
I really think it's going to hurt his image/reputation/fan base.
I wouldn't be surprised if he throws his toys out of the cot and retires.
Only the radicalized disciples (the ones with the VR46 hat and stubble cooler, as well as the shirt!) are going to support these kind of behaviors.
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Watched that move from a few angles and yes.. poor form. We were not there to see what led up to that stupid public move so I do hope everyone comes clean about why and what. Rossi is still a better rider than me.
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Few things are more dangerous than a fading former champion...
Not only doing this, but the paranoia that lead to it.
The 2005 model Rossi would have not let that shit in his head, and would have just gone out and beaten Marquez on speed.
I sort of get Rossi's statement about wanting to slow Marquez down, and maybe that would have been passable if he baulked him and then chased Lorenzo down - but when it resulted in Marquez crashing then Rossi has to be DQ'd, no matter the motivation/excuse.
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Phew where to we start, thursday's presser was bizarre Lorenzo and Marquez were watching waiting for the punchline as it went on they started to think this might be serious.
Sunday was even more bizarre some riding with "a knife between the teeth" then the standing someone up running them out to the edge of the track. Something that would have earned you a punch in the head at a club day and a dressing down from the Clerk of the Course. No show at the post race presser was throwing to toys out of the pram.
Several hypocritical things as Pedrosa summed up beautifully when SuperSic took him out at Le Mans Rossi was the first to say that everyone were "pussy's" and didn't like to race close. Now we get the exact opposite.
Julian Ryder pointed out after thursday that all of Rossi's championships came via a substantial points lead (45 being the closest ) the only time Rossi was under pressure in a down to the wire championship was 2006......................the one where he fell off in Valencia handing the title to Nicky Hayden. That's what we witnessed here Rossi crumbling under pressure of a tight championship.
Only fanbois and those in need of a eye test saw it his way.
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There's a hell of a lot of people on that list though Loz, it's quite amazing.
Your summary of what would happen at a club day is spot-on, the danger now is it's giving riders carte blanche to brake test and ride opponents to the curb under brakes etc.
Bizarre.
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Rossi is such a little imp I'm surprised no one has punched him in his face
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Rossi has been a sookie lala since the Hayden and Stoner days. He should of been dragged over the coals when he tried to blatantly take Casey out at the cork screw at Laguna Seca which could of easily resulted in serious injury or death. The guy claims to like close racing..... unless he is being beaten then he brings out AMA supercross style block passes. Like Lozza said, a punch in the head is well deserved.
As for the sidecar "take out".....talk about being a sook and pointing fingers. The guy in front is entitled to hold his line and if you happen to hit the back of the outfit with your front wheel and fall off, how can you blame someone else?
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At the OZ titles when I got taken out by a far more obvious maneuver (If we want to call it that ;D), MA s response was "that is just a liitle rub " and with Rossis little move they make such a fuss . You dont have to watch the boring trolley video , just watch the end and judge . Well ,never 300 bucks license of me again , thats for sure . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg64TbZo8Do&feature=share
Maybe the etiquette is different for sidecars, and I understand why you're pissed off, but that sort of thing happens regularly among solos.
The other trolley was in front, and simply ran wide. No lurching, no braking, they just used the track that they are entitled to.
Even if it was a deliberate move, it's still safely within the grey area of "impossible to prove".
I appreciate why you'd be annoyed, but I also understand why there was no further action taken.
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There's a hell of a lot of people on that list though Loz, it's quite amazing.
Your summary of what would happen at a club day is spot-on, the danger now is it's giving riders carte blanche to brake test and ride opponents to the curb under brakes etc.
Bizarre.
Think a lot of people have short memories. Cast your mind back to a wet Jerez (??) in 2011 where Rossi dive bombed Stoner in a bone head move that was never going to come off. Which is a racing incident all well and good. But the bit of sheer audacity/genius to march down to Stoner's pit box expecting to meet with flying fists and somehow come out of it the "good guy". What we saw on the weekend was another version of that ....... "If I don't win the title it's because Marquez held me up and let Lorenzo through, he hates me because of Argentina and Assen"
Geez I thought I had good "Book of Excuses" :D
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Rossi is such a little imp I'm surprised no one has punched him in his face
1. It's not speedway so the chances of someone punching him are not that great. Anyway when Rossi went to see Casey he left his helmet on.
2. My gut feeling is that Rossi didn't mean to put Marquez down. When MM accelerates again he runs into Rossi and his helmet brushes his arm. The kick may have been a reflex action that hit MM's arm and pulled the brake on, but regardless of the outcome Rossi instigated it and ran MM very wide. I think even he knew straight away he had forked up. He lied in the post race interview.
3. The reaction from the Rossi FANatics is over the top there is even a change.org petition to have the penalty removed. I want to know where the petition is to double it.
4. There is every chance Rossi will come through from the back and score enough points to win the championship. The majority of riders will just let him through. Danni and Marc won't want to get involved so might be 1st and 2nd. The pressure is now on Lorenzo.
5. If Lorenzo wins the championship he won't get the credit he deserves. He has been brilliant (apart from the fall at Misano) for the second part of the season.
6. That is my opinion I haven't been a fan of Rossi for several years now after the incidents with Gibernau. Then with Casey, the wall in the pits and change to bridgestone when Lorenzo joined Yamaha. His total failure at Ducati that made the bike slower. I believe he starts fights with other riders just to motivate himself. This time it appears to have back fired but it isn't over yet.
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KTM47, I agree with all of the above points except number 2. Moto GP are too softcocked and scared of upsetting the number 46 brigade to pass on a fitting penalty which should have been no points for the race and start from back next race.
weak as Piss~!
Brett
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I think there is enough doubt as to weather or not the kick was deliberate or just a reflect to say the penalty is sufficient. That is my view.
Wouldn't it be great if MM just happened to qualify last, and then followed Rossi all the way (not challenging) and then passed him on the last lap.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph7BfQlBkk8&feature=youtu.be
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There you go, the biggest loon of all time is on Rossi's side. The conspiracy theory must be true.
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I watched the race like most of you but my take on it is a bit different. Marquez got shitty when Rossi caught and then passed him. The old master giving him a spray on the Thursday only made Marquez's reaction all the more reckless. To my eye Marquez was riding dangerously leading up to the incident . I've never seen Marquez so ragged . He had nothing to lose and the red mist blinded him to the obvious ie, Rossi was going quicker. It was always going to end in tears but Rossi beat him to the punch. I think Marquez had it coming and I'm not a Rossi fan. :)
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what a load that is - regardless of what he had coming that certainly wasn't it!!!
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I was at the track and saw it first hand.
Rossi ran him wide on purpose no doubt.
He did not kick out but his leg lifted when Marquez turned into him.
Marquez was cutting him up and slowing there pace , Rossi got the shits when he knew they could not catch back up the the lead group.
Who is in the wrong?
Both IMO, Marquez was not racing just being a dick and behaving badly. He is paid by Honda to win races not to settle grudges on the track.
Rossi was showing signs of stress no doubt and was probably taking shots at Marquez in the press conference to motivate himself. Marquez should have shrugged it off and gone out and raced for second ( Ped was going to win regardless) and not done exactly what Rossi accused him of.
Sad day for racing really we are the losers for what might have the been the tittle of the decade for either rider all we will remember now is this.
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........
Sad day for racing really we are the losers for what might have the been the tittle of the decade for either rider all we will remember now is this.
Not only did Pedrosa qualify and race brilliantly, he is the only one of the fast guys not coming across as a whiny premadonna right now.
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it gets better (or not)
http://m.autoevolution.com/yamaha-rumored-to-part-ways-with-lorenzo-because-of-his-attitude-in-the-rossi-case-101409.html#
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That's just crazy after Rossi vented in a big way at a previous press conference.
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I watched the race like most of you but my take on it is a bit different. Marquez got shitty when Rossi caught and then passed him. The old master giving him a spray on the Thursday only made Marquez's reaction all the more reckless. To my eye Marquez was riding dangerously leading up to the incident . I've never seen Marquez so ragged . He had nothing to lose and the red mist blinded him to the obvious ie, Rossi was going quicker. It was always going to end in tears but Rossi beat him to the punch. I think Marquez had it coming and I'm not a Rossi fan. :)
So Rossi didn't loose his cool and make the bone head move? Marquez did exactly what Rossi has done many times difference is Rossi can't handle it. Rossi spent more time looking behind him and wagging his finger at Marquez instead of putting his head down and going for it. Whether or not Marquez "had it coming" Rossi (and the yellow fools) can't expect to do stupid shit and get away with it. It was not a racing incident, it was a premeditated and deliberate move to run a competitor off the track that caused them to crash. Rossi started the silly stuff on thursday, Rossi should and could have just as easy settled for 4th, instead of having a brain explosion. However after Aragon then Phillip Island he realised he was going to have to beat Lorenzo in Sepang and Valencia and knew he couldn't do that.
As usual Kroppers and Mat Oxley introduce some facts into a insane argument
https://motomatters.com/analysis/2015/10/27/2015_sepang_motogp_round_up_heroes_who_h.html
http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/motogp-race/the-sepang-incident/
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Well spotted Loz, as bike journos they are both capable of giving a balanced view to what began as an emotive discussion and soon escalated into an ugly slanging match worldwide.
I can't help feeling that the genesis of this incident should have been nipped in the bud years before by a senior race official (or against a pit garage wall by an aggrieved competitor) when Marquez was allowed carte blanche on his way up the ranks of the support categories to ride with excessive vigour, contact and disregard for fellow riders. He should have been straightened out years ago : had this happened, the Sepang dust-up need never have occurred.
However he is guilty of no more here than engaging in a spirited scrap, the lack of which is bemoaned race after race by myopic fringe dwellers who claim GP racing is "boring". Without dwelling on the causes and shortcomings of that viewpoint, racing is racing. And, as others including Rossi and Lorenzo have demonstrated plenty of times without sanction, rubbing is racing. Those who have quickly jumped on the bandwagon that Marquez was "holding Rossi up" are overlooking the fact that their lap times blew out by no more than a second a lap compared to Pedrosa, whizzing away unimpeded at the front, pretty reasonable considering the amount of passing and repassing going on.
I doubt Rossi's kick was intentional, and I think Marquez could have neutralised the clash by braking short, turning inside Rossi and squirting away....but his incredulity at what was unfolding, being brake-tested, eyeballed and ridden to the outside kerb DURING A GP initiated a couple of irrational moves, including trying to finally turn in and overbalancing onto Rossi, causing the fall. Both have some degree of blame, but race direction's view that Rossi instigated a crash can't be denied. What I dislike is that the penalties applied should be relevant to that race alone, and it smacks of the shortcomings of the farcical F1 administration that the grid penalty should be applied to the next meeting. Ridiculous.
Finally with Rossi threatening to boycott the race at Valencia, that won't be happening for all sorts of commercial reasons. It's certainly the first time I can recall a competitor going into a final round of a world championship with a 7 point LEAD and offering to not ride. Lots can happen : Lorenzo could crash in practice and be injured, the bike could go pop, Rossi could get his finger out, get a good start and be in the top 10 by the end of lap 1, it could rain, all sorts of possibilities exist. And it wouldn't be outside the scope of the Rossi fantasy story his yellow-clad rabid supporters feed off for him to get up behind Lorenzo and win the damn title anyway. Certainly got to give it a red-hot crack.
One thing's for sure....we'll be watching..... 8)
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I guess we now know why those "robot" F1 drivers are on such a short choker lead, no PR flunky is game to let them off.
What is funny about all the 'smoking gun' helicopter and onboard videos is they same video is used as evidence for and and against, a classic case of conformation bias.
The stories floating round now are getting to the downright ridiculous the best one being a Spanish Conspiracy for a Spanish world champion ;D Well we have had 2012 Lorenzo, Marquez and Marquez again and I'm certain Dorna would sell a wharehouse full of VR46 10th world championship dvds and trinkets over Lorenzo's 4th(a sad but true aside they are still flogging SuperSic merchandise).
Only 2 people now what really happened and no doubts they will go to their grave sticking to their respective stories.
Methinks Jarvis and Nakamoto-san will be waving a big stick at their respective charges and Mike Webb(one of the good blokes) and Uncle Carmelo will be reading the riot act and threatening to tear anyone a new one if they play silly buggars at Valencia.
Tune in shit yeah the 3 days.
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Guys I may need some help to clarify the sepang incident.
I thought it was a deliberate block gone bad? You know, like you see on super/motocross.
When a block pass happens in supercross they run them wide into the berm so much, the rider behind has to virtually come to a stop, or either lean onto the lead rider risking a crash, or go off track over the berm also risking a crash?
Certainly not the usual thing to be seen in flowing road racing, not great racing spirit either, but still legal? No?
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Guys I may need some help to clarify the sepang incident.
I thought it was a deliberate block gone bad? You know, like you see on super/motocross.
When a block pass happens in supercross they run them wide into the berm so much, the rider behind has to virtually come to a stop, or either lean onto the lead rider risking a crash, or go off track over the berm also risking a crash?
Certainly not the usual thing to be seen in flowing road racing, not great racing spirit either, but still legal? No?
No it was not like a supercross/motocross move. Rossi angled towards the outside of the corner, braking more than needed and looked back twice so he could stay right beside MM. He was deliberately pushing him off the track and keeping him on the outside. MM accerated slightly to try and go around Rossi and this is when he brushed Rossi's knee. The kick out may have been a reflect action, but regardless of that MM would not have been in that situation if not for Rossi's actions.
I also believe that while Mike Webb thinks MM actions also weren't fare they weren't against any rules and lets face it they couldn't give MM a penalty (as well). Just imagine them both starting from the back of the grid.
Rossi can still win the Championship. The back half of the field will just let him through. Lorenzo will have to beat Pedrosa and Marquez to win the Championship. Rossi has nothing to lose (so no pressure). All the pressure is now on Lorenzo.
Unfortunately even if Lorzeno wins the Championship he won't get the credit he deserves.
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My opinion (the only one that matters to me...)
The difference between legitimate hard riding, inc block passing etc, and the BS move that VR46 pulled is:
If stupid lines and slowing when you should be accelerating are allowed, not only does the sport turn from racing to roller derby, but close racing would be dangerous and rare.
To get the racing we enjoy (eg Phillip Island this year) the following rider has to turn in, and open the throttle based on the racing line. If the following rider can't trust the rider in front of him, and has to leave the throttle closed till he sees the rider in front open his, he would be severely disadvantaged. Doubly so if he has to worry the rider in front might slow for no reason (except to cause huge "issues" for the following rider)
Ironically, my take on the last week is:
Rossi blatantly and deliberately did to MM93, what he claims MM93 has been doing to him, so subtly that it can only be seen using hindsight and yellow lenses.
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The answer to the question asked in this post is"-
YES
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Well spotted Loz, as bike journos they are both capable of giving a balanced view to what began as an emotive discussion and soon escalated into an ugly slanging match worldwide.
I can't help feeling that the genesis of this incident should have been nipped in the bud years before by a senior race official (or against a pit garage wall by an aggrieved competitor) when Marquez was allowed carte blanche on his way up the ranks of the support categories to ride with excessive vigour, contact and disregard for fellow riders. He should have been straightened out years ago : had this happened, the Sepang dust-up need never have occurred.
However he is guilty of no more here than engaging in a spirited scrap, the lack of which is bemoaned race after race by myopic fringe dwellers who claim GP racing is "boring". Without dwelling on the causes and shortcomings of that viewpoint, racing is racing. And, as others including Rossi and Lorenzo have demonstrated plenty of times without sanction, rubbing is racing. Those who have quickly jumped on the bandwagon that Marquez was "holding Rossi up" are overlooking the fact that their lap times blew out by no more than a second a lap compared to Pedrosa, whizzing away unimpeded at the front, pretty reasonable considering the amount of passing and repassing going on.
I doubt Rossi's kick was intentional, and I think Marquez could have neutralised the clash by braking short, turning inside Rossi and squirting away....but his incredulity at what was unfolding, being brake-tested, eyeballed and ridden to the outside kerb DURING A GP initiated a couple of irrational moves, including trying to finally turn in and overbalancing onto Rossi, causing the fall. Both have some degree of blame, but race direction's view that Rossi instigated a crash can't be denied. What I dislike is that the penalties applied should be relevant to that race alone, and it smacks of the shortcomings of the farcical F1 administration that the grid penalty should be applied to the next meeting. Ridiculous.
Finally with Rossi threatening to boycott the race at Valencia, that won't be happening for all sorts of commercial reasons. It's certainly the first time I can recall a competitor going into a final round of a world championship with a 7 point LEAD and offering to not ride. Lots can happen : Lorenzo could crash in practice and be injured, the bike could go pop, Rossi could get his finger out, get a good start and be in the top 10 by the end of lap 1, it could rain, all sorts of possibilities exist. And it wouldn't be outside the scope of the Rossi fantasy story his yellow-clad rabid supporters feed off for him to get up behind Lorenzo and win the damn title anyway. Certainly got to give it a red-hot crack.
One thing's for sure....we'll be watching..... 8)
Post of the thread.
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Well I think Rossi 's Kick was intentional but maybe not enough to really knock MM off, It did also look like MM took a bit of a soccer dive and did not really try to save it... We will be watching!
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What I dislike is that the penalties applied should be relevant to that race alone, and it smacks of the shortcomings of the farcical F1 administration that the grid penalty should be applied to the next meeting. Ridiculous.
Rossi was penalised 10sec during a race at Philip Island one year (2003) which is what he should have gotten at Sepang.
Even though he was given 10sec he still pulled out a lead in excess of that to win by 15sec anyway
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bit more than passing under a yellow this time though
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Does MotoGP not have the same rules as a lot of sports now about bringing the sport into disrepute which would have brought some sort of action after the Thursday press conference?
Same rule generally applies to social media meaning the riders can't vent on facebook etc without some sort of sanction being applied, 1 of our top speedway drivers got a 6 or 10 week stand down at the start of the season a few years ago for complaining on facebook that he'd been refused permission from the governing body to use cro-mo tubing in his rollcage instead of seamless mild steel in a full contact car
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Well I think Rossi 's Kick was intentional but maybe not enough to really knock MM off, It did also look like MM took a bit of a soccer dive and did not really try to save it... We will be watching!
If the kick hit MM arm and pulled to front brake on that would cause a fall. MM would already be partly riding the brake.
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http://www.mcnews.com.au/lap-times-look-backs-leg-movements/
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interesting summary, sound logical and above prejudice...fans don't like it....!? go figure?
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I agree what a well thought out and researched story.
I also would not be surprised if Rossi still wins the Championship. All the pressure is now on Lorenzo and Rossi really has none. If he wins his god like status is reinforced if he loses it is MM fault (in his mind).
Either way the fake doctor has got the motivation he wanted.
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It's going to be interesting.
Previously I'd have put my money on Rossi. - expecting a supernatural ride from the back, and probably George cracking (at least a bit).
But, Rossi genuinely seems to be "unraveling". All the conspiracy theories, losing his mind/control in the last race. (A guy with that experience, knows there will be consequences to ridding like he did - fact.)
I wouldn't be surprised if he races with a foil lining in his helmet, pulls out/crashes, and never races again.
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Of course he is not phased by it all. If he wins he is a god if he loses it is someone else's fault.
Jorge (not George) has all the pressure, then again he might not care anyway. He is in a lose lose situation.
I'm sure he is over the back room politics at Yamaha (and Bridgestone). How does anyone think when Rossi qualifies down the grid third row etc, by race day he has gained some magic setup change. Could it be that his team has had a chance to study the data and setup of a faster bike and rider combination and then make the changes that make him faster.
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I was trying to be funny by calling him "George"... :)
(Jorge is the Spanish equivalent of George, I believe.)
Can't wait for Sunday.
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We got it mate, but one foot wrong and they'll put you right.
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I call him hore hey, sounds foreign.
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I call him hore hey, sounds foreign.
;)
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hoar hay?(strine version) :P
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Whore hey?
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I've been ready a bit more about the top Moto GP guys, as a result of the latest "controversy".
Despite coming across as spoilt bitches most of the time, they sound like largely nice guys considering the pressure they are under, and the fact that their strength is racing bikes, not public speaking. All the top guys are reputed to contribute money, and more admirably, time, to charities and causes.
Jorge was described as "being robbed of his childhood, by a father set on manufacturing a world champion." He wouldn't be the only one! (At least he made it...)
I watch Moto GP for the racing, not the "reality TV personality" content.
So unlike Rossi disciples: when I see someone ride like a dick, I think they are a dick.
Wear the yellow hats, the "46" T shirts, worship the messiah that can do no wrong, but don't drink the cool aid! ::)
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I've been ready a bit more about the top Moto GP guys, as a result of the latest "controversy".
Despite coming across as spoilt bitches most of the time, they sound like largely nice guys considering the pressure they are under, and the fact that their strength is racing bikes, not public speaking. All the top guys are reputed to contribute money, and more admirably, time, to charities and causes.
Jorge was described as "being robbed of his childhood, by a father set on manufacturing a world champion." He wouldn't be the only one! (At least he made it...)
I watch Moto GP for the racing, not the "reality TV personality" content.
So unlike Rossi disciples: when I see someone ride like a dick, I think they are a dick.
Hard to disagree with that!
Wear the yellow hats, the "46" T shirts, worship the messiah that can do no wrong, but don't drink the cool aid! ::)
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face it given half a chance, we would have been onto that like a flash. they are all talented riders, the politics and the lifestyle can only make your world view very narrow as once your on that gravy train, you hang on till your forced to let go.... what a life! the booze! the women the....broken bones and arthritis....
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face it given half a chance, we would have been onto that like a flash. they are all talented riders, the politics and the lifestyle can only make your world view very narrow as once your on that gravy train, you hang on till your forced to let go.... what a life! the booze! the women the....broken bones and arthritis....
I scored the broken bones and arthritis part of bike riding. ;D
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To paraphrase George best:
I've spent most of my money on motorbikes and fast women, the rest, I've just squandered.
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Thank you all and have a good race
http://www.mcnews.com.au/fim-statement-from-permanent-bureau/
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After a very poor error of judgment from Rossi at the last round where he ran Marquez wide at turn 14, causing him to crash, Rossi was fined 3 points on his license, which means with 1 point already on his license he will start from the rear of the grid this weekend in Valencia.
Rossi took the FIM steward's decision to the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) requesting for a stay of the decision. The request was denied by the CAS so the FIM's fine will stand.
So this weekend will be a very interesting round.
For all the scenarios follow the link. http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2015/1...hampion/188672
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I'm pleased that the CAS didn't back down to the cult of Rossi, would have been a bad look to make a judgement 1 week then overturn it the next when Rossi was very clear in stating that he had intended running Marquez off the track
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It is a cult Tony, never seen such vitriol from any such disciples before, if you dared to impugn his name or his right to ride unimpeded you shall be attacked mercilessly, cast out and hated forever. With a few days to cool off he has finally copped the penalty, let's hope all his myopic followers can now understand that the governing body runs the sport. At the time I was all for a black flag but with hindsight I believe race direction made a good call and left the penalty open to natural justice, further investigation and the right to appeal, really quite well handled considering the volatile environment. And Lorenzo has manned up and apologised for the thumbs-down on the podium, so he's showing some accountability as well.
Weather forecast for Valencia on Sunday is around 21 deg with the odd shower around lunchtime, but there are plenty of other factors in the mix. Should be worth a look.... 8)
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The smoking gun
https://www.facebook.com/danilo.cicaloni/videos/10205683308346844/
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The smoking gun
https://www.facebook.com/danilo.cicaloni/videos/10205683308346844/
Looks like he has form
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The problem is fixed:
https://youtu.be/txSBbZTwxBU
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Well its all done and dusted now , England has a world champion although he made us sweat and Oliveira really did all he could do . Of the 2 I think Oliveira will do great things in MOTO 2 in the next couple of years .
Rossi rode the race of his life only to de denied the title by the Spanish Mafia .Would have loved to have seen the outcome had Rossi started from his rightful place on the grid .
Lorenzo rode well and did what he had to do . Pedrosa came on strong at the end and the other Spaniard played patriot to his countryman rather than ride for his team .
Was a great season , best in a long time .
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Yes have to agree that Kent almost pulled off one of the worlds biggest chokes but over the whole season he was a very deserving Champion. I think he has learnt a lot about putting a season together. The final GP was ridden using his brain given he seemed to be a bit of a target.
Don't completely agree about Rossi. I think the Honda team struggled with front tyres all race once they pushed 100% the bikes pushed wide in corners after a couple laps. Lorenzo was in his element. Rossi rode great got a lot of help as expected but his tyres were gone. I was a Rossi fan but did not feel he deserved this title. Overall it was not a particularly great GP to watch. Rossi was always going to come through to top 10 in a lap or two. Who the hell was the idiot for the Rossi cheer squad on Foxtel. Hope to never see him on a telecast again. Just a goose!!!!
Honda has a lot of work to do for next season.
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Yes have to agree that Kent almost pulled off one of the worlds biggest chokes but over the whole season he was a very deserving Champion. I think he has learnt a lot about putting a season together. The final GP was ridden using his brain given he seemed to be a bit of a target.
Don't completely agree about Rossi. I think the Honda team struggled with front tyres all race once they pushed 100% the bikes pushed wide in corners after a couple laps. Lorenzo was in his element. Rossi rode great got a lot of help as expected but his tyres were gone. I was a Rossi fan but did not feel he deserved this title. Overall it was not a particularly great GP to watch. Rossi was always going to come through to top 10 in a lap or two. Who the hell was the idiot for the Rossi cheer squad on Foxtel. Hope to never see him on a telecast again. Just a goose!!!!
Honda has a lot of work to do for next season.
^this.
Well its all done and dusted now , England has a world champion although he made us sweat and Oliveira really did all he could do . Of the 2 I think Oliveira will do great things in MOTO 2 in the next couple of years .
Rossi rode the race of his life only to de denied the title by the Spanish Mafia .Would have loved to have seen the outcome had Rossi started from his rightful place on the grid .
Lorenzo rode well and did what he had to do . Pedrosa came on strong at the end and the other Spaniard played patriot to his countryman rather than ride for his team .
Was a great season , best in a long time .
Rossi would have finished 4th but not 19sec behind none of his laps were in the 31's mid to low 32's. Even if Marquez won Lorenzo would have still been champion.
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Lorenzo did what he had to do: qualified on pole, got the holeshot, rode 26 fast laps, made no mistakes. A worthy champion.
Ironically, As Lozza says, it could be argued (and will be by the Yellow disciples) that the penalty played no part in the result.
The three in front of Rossi have often been faster this year, and were yesterday. Rossi was 10 sec behind when he got into 4th, and fell back from there. (Sure his tires were tired, but so were those of the guys putting in near record laps, every lap. Honda covered them up with warmers on the podium.)
MMs story about waiting to the last few laps to try for a pass fits with what I saw, and the well documented fact that MM rides better as the fuel load reduces. (Honda issue)
Pedrosa can't be accused of not trying 100%, even if ironically his pass slowed both the Repsol riders a little and prevented MMs last lap passing attempt.
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Pedrosa (Queer as he comes across) is the hero of the last few rds IMHO
Im not a dyed in the wool Rossi fan ( but I love a racer and showman ) and I do believe there is credibility in his aqusations against Marquez , not sure of the kids motives though :-\
Lorenzo is IMHO the beige Camry of Moto GP :)
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Pedrosa (Queer as he comes across) is the hero of the last few rds IMHO
Im not a dyed in the wool Rossi fan ( but I love a racer and showman ) and I do believe there is credibility in his aqusations against Marquez , not sure of the kids motives though :-\
Lorenzo is IMHO the beige Camry of Moto GP :)
Diddo, I bet you Nassa wishes it could have achieved this sort of audience participation and enthusiasm.
A bit of controversy always feeds an event, thoroughly enjoyed staying up 8)
And lets face it, we all knew that Rossi would do a charge from the rear until his tires went off.
And we all knew the cameras would be on it too 8)
Quite frankly I have seen worse adult and dummy spit behavior at two Vintage meets :( ::)
What a privilege to still be sucking air and watch the wheels ridden of some of these bikes at one very historical event. Makes me want to get out some of my Doohan, Rainey and Schwantz VHSs
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Rossi would have finished 4th but not 19sec behind none of his laps were in the 31's mid to low 32's. Even if Marquez won Lorenzo would have still been champion.
Totally agree with this conclusion.
The major problem with Rossi accusing Marquez of helping Lorenzo was Phillip Island. Marquez passed Lorenzo on the last lap to take the win and five points off Lorenzo. Rossi spat the dummy that Marquez was helping Lorenzo :o that is not logical not even Italian Logic it is just poor sportsmanship.
I am not a Lorenzo fan and no longer a Rossi fan. Next year with a more equal playing field will be interesting to see what the results will throw up. Mind you I hate the dumming down of the sport at the top level but only four truly competitive bikes is crap as well.
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Biggest disappointment is the "fans" we used to think that racing audiences were well above the fanboi or footy hooligan style behaviour but alas..................
Again Kropotkin nails it
https://motomatters.com/analysis/2015/11/09/2015_valencia_sunday_motogp_round_up_how.html
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Rossi would have finished 4th but not 19sec behind none of his laps were in the 31's mid to low 32's. Even if Marquez won Lorenzo would have still been champion.
Very hard to make this conclusion with any degree of certainty, in my opinion. It may have been the case, as may have been the following scenario: Rossi blasted through the field, (albeit with a bit of help on the way) which would have been hard on both his tyres and himself, to find himself in 4th place with a 10sec deficit. Knowing that there was no way to make up the deficit, with any serious attempt to do so likely resulting in a crash, his next course of action would have been to sit tight and hope that Marquez and Pedrosa manage to get by Lorenzo.
I'm not overly enamoured with Rossi, particularly after his recent antics, but he still rode brilliantly this year and deserves more credit than being described as a fading champion. Unfortunately he has done himself no favours at all.
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Now that it's all done and dusted:
Funny how few people can understand that Rossi is an incredibly talented rider, incredible competitor and generally likeable person who did something very stupid.
The fanboys need to understand that he's not (and never has been) perfect - he's human, and he sometimes does stupid things like every other human does. Accepting this fact does not suddenly make him a lousy bike rider, or mean you have to hate him.
Denying that Rossi did the wrong thing when he took Marquez out, is to argue that black is white.
Same basic thing as when we discovered that Shane Warne was a philandering bogan: it didn't somehow instantly erase his achievements as a spin bowler.
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Now that it's all done and dusted:
Funny how few people can understand that Rossi is an incredibly talented rider, incredible competitor and generally likeable person who did something very stupid.
The fanboys need to understand that he's not (and never has been) perfect - he's human, and he sometimes does stupid things like every other human does. Accepting this fact does not suddenly make him a lousy bike rider, or mean you have to hate him.
Denying that Rossi did the wrong thing when he took Marquez out, is to argue that black is white.
Same basic thing as when we discovered that Shane Warne was a philandering bogan: it didn't somehow instantly erase his achievements as a spin bowler.
Very well put Nathan, I don't watch Moto GPs because i like soap opperas. I watch them to be thrilled.
I loved it when Doohan was doing it though. In the mean time, I couldn't give a dam which wog wins, looses, falls off or gets kicked off, as long as I am thrilled when the flag drops. Then its off with the tele and back to life.
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Rossi would have finished 4th but not 19sec behind none of his laps were in the 31's mid to low 32's. Even if Marquez won Lorenzo would have still been champion.
Very hard to make this conclusion with any degree of certainty, in my opinion. It may have been the case, as may have been the following scenario: Rossi blasted through the field, (albeit with a bit of help on the way) which would have been hard on both his tyres and himself, to find himself in 4th place with a 10sec deficit. Knowing that there was no way to make up the deficit, with any serious attempt to do so likely resulting in a crash, his next course of action would have been to sit tight and hope that Marquez and Pedrosa manage to get by Lorenzo.
I'm not overly enamoured with Rossi, particularly after his recent antics, but he still rode brilliantly this year and deserves more credit than being described as a fading champion. Unfortunately he has done himself no favours at all.
Which is pretty much what Pedrosa did, but running faster lap times for the whole race. The whole year if Lorenzo has had consistent conditions or it hasn't been too hot for the Honda to get traction Rossi has been 3rd or 4th. Nobody thought Mike Tyson was a fallen angel when he bit Hollyfield's ear off ;) Whole thing was a bit of classic politician spin, when faced with the realisation after Aragon that Rossi had to add Pedrosa to the number of people he had to finish in front of in the last 3 races. That the title was out of reach, so the blame game started and to discredit Lorenzo as a "worthy" champion.
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Nobody thought Mike Tyson was a fallen angel when he bit Hollyfield's ear off ;)
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How could you even say such a thing Lozza >:(
Every time I hear Music by Michael Jackson, I am in awe, but always wonder if there were vitims, I hope not. In the absence of convictions. I still wunder? but give the benefit of a doubt, then get on with jiving.
Shane Warne, big Deal, I am guessing it takes two to tango, some will yield to the invite and do the pleasuring, who cares.
But every time I see or hear of that Convicted Women bashing, ear biting head full of bone brainless thug, I always think "what a total piece of shit".
I held my daughter up the moment she was born and made a pedge "god help any dopey bastard that ever hits you". I beat them physically and mentally senseless, but pulled up before spending life in jaol.
Good thing scum don't go to an ED saying this is a result of square up for abuse on a women,,,, do they?
Completely different kettle of fish! you have a daughter too.
I obviously couldn't beat Tyson up. But if he brutalised my daughter like he did his wife and others, one way or another when the K&*^ got out of joal, he would be meeting his reaper, guarantee it.
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Anyone read Casey Stoners book?
i wounder if he wishes he had the "pull" that 3 spanairds have over officialdom? A penny for his thoughts.....
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Anyone read Casey Stoners book?
i wounder if he wishes he had the "pull" that 3 spanairds have over officialdom? A penny for his thoughts.....
Honest Aussie's come to mind.
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Nobody thought Mike Tyson was a fallen angel when he bit Hollyfield's ear off ;)
How could you even say such a thing Lozza >:(
Every time I hear Music by Michael Jackson, I am in awe, but always wonder if there were vitims, I hope not. In the absence of convictions. I still wunder? but give the benefit of a doubt, then get on with jiving.
Shane Warne, big Deal, I am guessing it takes two to tango, some will yield to the invite and do the pleasuring, who cares.
But every time I see or hear of that Convicted Women bashing, ear biting head full of bone brainless thug, I always think "what a total piece of shit".
I held my daughter up the moment she was born and made a pedge "god help any dopey bastard that ever hits you". I beat them physically and mentally senseless, but pulled up before spending life in jaol.
Good thing scum don't go to an ED saying this is a result of square up for abuse on a women,,,, do they?
Completely different kettle of fish! you have a daughter too.
I obviously couldn't beat Tyson up. But if he brutalised my daughter like he did his wife and others, one way or another when the K&*^ got out of joal, he would be meeting his reaper, guarantee it.
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I don't think you got the meaning of "fallen angel" there Mick ie when that happened everyone seen Tyson for what he was a out of control thug. Nobody leaped to his defense saying he was justified because Hollyfield gave him a tough time in the ring.
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The reason Rossi has fallen so far in my eyes is the unrepentant and continued madness/bad sportsmanship.
Saying that crap about the Aussie GP -MM was helping Lorenzo by a balls out passing move on the last lap costing JL99 five points?- some help!
Pulling that twat move in Sepang. - Anyone can lose it and make a mistake. But in the cold hard light of reality: man up and admit it, don't justify it and keep blaming everyone else.
Saying "Marquez made me lose the championship" - Most mums would say "if Mark told you to jump off a cliff, would you do that?" But Rossi lives in a world of yes men - "Yes Lord Vale, it's all the fault of the Spanish Devils!"
The continued attitude that others should have helped him win the title, even though he was demonstrably slower than the guy who did win. >:(
I'm sure no one, least of all VR46 cares about my opinion. Well, except for me! Thanks for reading.
Don't mention Rolf Harris......
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I'm sure no one, least of all VR46 cares about my opinion. Well, except for me! Thanks for reading.
Don't mention Rolf Harris......
Well I care ;D and I this is a post that I can clearly comprehend after reading it only once 8) especially the bit about Rolf Harris ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Bugger Rolf Harris, what ever you do don't get me started about Optus or Telstra ATM. I reckon Lozza has severed my line on purpose ;D
I have lost the will to watch all the pre race coverage and post race interviews. I only watch the races from flag to flag now, full stop. So I have been plenty ignorant until now.
I gather this is truthful, which explains a lot simply and clearly.
The reason Rossi has fallen so far in my eyes is the unrepentant and continued madness/bad sportsmanship.
Saying that crap about the Aussie GP -MM was helping Lorenzo by a balls out passing move on the last lap costing JL99 five points?- some help!
Pulling that twat move in Sepang. - Anyone can lose it and make a mistake. But in the cold hard light of reality: man up and admit it, don't justify it and keep blaming everyone else.
Saying "Marquez made me lose the championship" - Most mums would say "if Mark told you to jump off a cliff, would you do that?" But Rossi lives in a world of yes men - "Yes Lord Vale, it's all the fault of the Spanish Devils!"
The continued attitude that others should have helped him win the title, even though he was demonstrably slower than the guy who did win. >:(
It is such a real shame that his mind interprets his situation this way.
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I don't think you got the meaning of "fallen angel" there Mick ie when that happened everyone seen Tyson for what he was a out of control thug. Nobody leaped to his defense saying he was justified because Hollyfield gave him a tough time in the ring.
Yes Lozza, I later re-read your post many times over and started to think maybe that's where you were with it.
Shame I hated English so much as a subject. Heres the scary thing though, I can read once and comprehend every single post that Nathan writes. Even his intentional messages between the lines as he often does ::) :o ;D
Just watching the race again now, first lap. The commentators are more excited about Valentino than Michael Jackson was about his first monkey.
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Its still not about any of this for me.
Just want to watch the dice and race for position.
Hard not to enjoy Rossi's ride, its the only bike the cameras on ;D ;D ;D ;D
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The reason Rossi has fallen so far in my eyes is the unrepentant and continued madness/bad sportsmanship.
Saying that crap about the Aussie GP -MM was helping Lorenzo by a balls out passing move on the last lap costing JL99 five points?- some help!
Pulling that twat move in Sepang. - Anyone can lose it and make a mistake. But in the cold hard light of reality: man up and admit it, don't justify it and keep blaming everyone else.
Saying "Marquez made me lose the championship" - Most mums would say "if Mark told you to jump off a cliff, would you do that?" But Rossi lives in a world of yes men - "Yes Lord Vale, it's all the fault of the Spanish Devils!"
The continued attitude that others should have helped him win the title, even though he was demonstrably slower than the guy who did win. >:(
I agree. Rossi didn't win because he wasn't fast enough. He had to rely on both Hondas beating Lorzeno. Lorenzo with stood the pressure for the whole race and deserved the win.
Roll on next year. Number one question is will there be three contenders for the title or four. I think Pedrosa is also a real contender for next year and maybe Suzuki.
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I don't think you got the meaning of "fallen angel" there Mick ie when that happened everyone seen Tyson for what he was a out of control thug. Nobody leaped to his defense saying he was justified because Hollyfield gave him a tough time in the ring.
Yes Lozza, I later re-read your post many times over and started to think maybe that's where you were with it.
Shame I hated English so much as a subject. Heres the scary thing though, I can read once and comprehend every single post that Nathan writes. Even his intentional messages between the lines as he often does ::) :o ;D
Just watching the race again now, first lap. The commentators are more excited about Valentino than Michael Jackson was about his first monkey.
No probs Mick though the Michael Jackson and Bubbles image isn't something I want to visualise ;-)
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[/quote]
No probs Mick though the Michael Jackson and Bubbles image isn't something I want to visualise ;-)
[/quote]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvuOtlpSAeY
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No probs Mick though the Michael Jackson and Bubbles image isn't something I want to visualise ;-)
[/quote]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvuOtlpSAeY
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No way will I click on that link :D
On a side note a thing that has been overlooked in the kerfuffle has been the absolutely brilliant job Yamaha engineers did on the 2015 M1. Improving an already great bike by boosting the strengths and addressing the weakness' is a engineering feat not achieved on a regular basis.
OOOOOOhhh a interesting tidbit a certain retired Australian ex-GP double world champion due to be back in GP racing ..............on a Ducati. Heard it here first
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Now that would stir things up a bit, the only query would be his known and avowed hatred of the required pr cow droppings which have gone into overdrive at the tail end of this season. He is one man who could always keep this eager viewer transfixed even when lapping alone and I always wondered whether he might have one more burst in him : but I figured it would be on a Honda if anything....
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I think when it's all said & done that Rossi tried his normal head games & they worked, just not on the person he aimed them at but himself. The whole losing of the plot before Malaysia started showed signs of pressure & self doubt that hasn't been seen before from Rossi
Certainly be interesting to see if you're correct Lozza & with which team he'd be riding in
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Now that would stir things up a bit, the only query would be his known and avowed hatred of the required pr cow droppings which have gone into overdrive at the tail end of this season. He is one man who could always keep this eager viewer transfixed even when lapping alone and I always wondered whether he might have one more burst in him : but I figured it would be on a Honda if anything....
Ducati is the right choice. Doesn't have to compete with Spanish riders for attention. Also rubs it into another rider who couldn't win or even be competitive on a Ducati. Maybe then if still keen move to KTM.
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OOOOOOhhh a interesting tidbit a certain retired Australian ex-GP double world champion due to be back in GP racing ..............on a Ducati. Heard it here first
[/quote]
Well tell me Who is going to be KTM's star riders when they join Moto GP in 2017
The stig
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Well tell me Who is going to be KTM's star riders when they join Moto GP in 2017
The stig
Who ever they can afford, will have to sell a shirtload of bikes and orange parphanailia to afford a top line rcer these days. Thought the lolly water sponsor might help :DNow that would stir things up a bit, the only query would be his known and avowed hatred of the required pr cow droppings which have gone into overdrive at the tail end of this season. He is one man who could always keep this eager viewer transfixed even when lapping alone and I always wondered whether he might have one more burst in him : but I figured it would be on a Honda if anything....
Said to be less than impressed with testing the road RC213V shitter and even less impressed with the throttle staying open on the 8 Hour bike. No time on the pukka race bikes. The "Official CS27" twitter account has gone awfully silent, but apparently it's a done deal, testing first maybe wild cards (at PI one can only hope :D :D :D) at a GP
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Eek. Unretirements seldom work well, and those toe-in-the-water wildcard exercises always make me uneasy. But the bloke is utterly incredible on a racebike, so wish him all the best.
Didn't realise he was so out-of-kilter with Honda, but it all adds up. Intriguing.... 8)
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Eek. Unretirements seldom work well, and those toe-in-the-water wildcard exercises always make me uneasy. But the bloke is utterly incredible on a racebike, so wish him all the best.
Didn't realise he was so out-of-kilter with Honda, but it all adds up. Intriguing.... 8)
Agreed on all counts.
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Do they still ride brutal real mens 500cc two strokes??? ::) ::) ::) ;)
And somewhat more seriously wonder how the "top echelon" of the current crop would go on above?
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Do they still brutal real mens 500cc two strokes??? ::) ::) ::) ;)
And somewhat more seriously wonder how the "top echelon" of the current crop would go on above?
Ask you shall receive
CLICKY LINKY THINGY (http://www.cycleworld.com/2015/08/18/would-motogp-riders-welcome-return-to-racing-500cc-two-stroke-engines/)
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Thanks Lozza! let all now click and read including the responses from the lowly peasants. :D
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As per the Ducati story , A young fella's uncle is down here in Tassie . talking about him today atm he is only testing and setting up a Red bike . the company is offering a lot of money for a come back . Iain
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I find it amusing (and incredible) that the only blokes that have been able to put the "Red Bikes" into the pointy end every time they ride them, are 2 Aussies!
Every one else whinges about how difficult they are to ride.
It'd be great to see CS27 back and on a factory Red bike.
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Do they still brutal real mens 500cc two strokes??? ::) ::) ::) ;)
And somewhat more seriously wonder how the "top echelon" of the current crop would go on above?
The last of the 500cc 2 strokes were not that brutal. The big bang motor had smoothed them out and the current electronics would help too. Any of the riders who raced 250 2 strokes would be fine.
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What would b better is the 400cc 2 stroke (Aprilla) against the 800s.
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What would b better is the 400cc 2 stroke (Aprilla) against the 800s.
Another version might be alright, the Aprilia 400 was a right feck up. Was just an over bored 250 instead of a proper 68 x68.5 bore and stroke like the NSR500V. Witteveen wasted millions on that.