OzVMX Forum

Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: Slakewell on October 14, 2015, 11:56:40 am

Title: Newish two stroke
Post by: Slakewell on October 14, 2015, 11:56:40 am
Hope for a 300 version soon?

(http://www.enduro21.com/images/racing/General/Yamaha_WR250_2stroke/2016_Yamaha_WR250_Enduro_2-stroke_001.jpg)

http://www.enduro21.com/index.php/40-general/121-first-look-yamaha-reveal-wr250-two-stroke-for-2016
Title: Re: Newish two stroke
Post by: oldyzman on October 14, 2015, 12:11:14 pm
Big Question,
Will it come to Australia?
Brett
Title: Re: Newish two stroke
Post by: frostype400 on October 15, 2015, 11:17:20 am
It really needs adr approval too don.t know if it will have that or not if it does and it is a decent price it will sell heaps.
Title: Re: Newish two stroke
Post by: 80-85 husky on October 15, 2015, 09:01:37 pm
"Sell Heaps"?? only if you can re convert all the wr450 riders back to 2-s...easier to get IS to take up Buddhism....
Title: Re: Newish two stroke
Post by: evo550 on October 15, 2015, 09:04:03 pm
Big Question,
Will it come to Australia?
Brett
Yes, very limited market I think.
Title: Re: Newish two stroke
Post by: Nathan S on October 15, 2015, 09:34:07 pm
As best as I can tell, the new WR250(Z) is just a YZ250X with a factory fitted headlight.

Im glad they're making the X, but it misses the mark in Australia. No ADR, 5-speed, no electric start, and still bloody expensive.

The X with a rec rego kit is more expensive than a Beta 250RR. I get the Yamaha's good points, but I can't imagine many people choosing to pay more for the Yamaha.
Title: Re: Newish two stroke
Post by: skypig on October 15, 2015, 10:17:16 pm
Without ADR approval, it's a white elephant in OZ.

IMHO MX bikes in the bush are far from ideal. (For the majority of riders/circumstances.)

I've ridden a 2015 YZ250 on an MX track. Incredible bike! More than I can use on a natural terrain MX track, let alone a snotty hill!! (Again, light, smooth, powerful. Fantastic! But close ratios and a hit that had me jumping out of the chosen rut.)
I've ridden a 2015 KTM300EXC at Sunny Corner. Incredible bike! Would be my first choice for a new trail bike. (Can lug up a hill if required. Didn't seem to lack power at any situation! :P)

By way of background:I currently race (slowly, even for a "Vet") a YZ250F, and a 525 Supermoto, and cruise the trails on a 450F. I raced 125s and 250s when all race bikes were 2 strokes.

I love all dirt bikes.
Title: Re: Newish two stroke
Post by: 80-85 husky on October 16, 2015, 07:15:04 am
rego is big at our age...ol mate stacked a year or so ago and hurt his shoulder badly. TAC just paid for his A$60Kshouler reco...
Title: Re: Newish two stroke
Post by: Slakewell on October 16, 2015, 10:43:18 am
I dont know about the jetting in the WR but my own YZ t/s was so badly jetted from the factory that it hit really hard coming onto the main jet as it cleared itself making it much harder to ride. I think I dropped 5 sizes leaner on the needle and up jetted the pilot and mains and it smoothed it right out. Plus I fitted a heavier flywheel. I really like mine now. But if the cost is close to the KTM/Husky why not just get the 300? Still it's good to see at least something new and hopefully not forgotten 2/s from japan.
Title: Re: Newish two stroke
Post by: ITDOG on October 16, 2015, 11:24:55 pm
(http://i572.photobucket.com/albums/ss165/ickydog66/SAM_4389.jpg) (http://s572.photobucket.com/user/ickydog66/media/SAM_4389.jpg.html)

(http://i572.photobucket.com/albums/ss165/ickydog66/SAM_4388.jpg) (http://s572.photobucket.com/user/ickydog66/media/SAM_4388.jpg.html)
My Wr250z in progress, true wide ratio and full ADR....nearly 20 years old now  :o .......yeah jetting is a tad off for sure
Title: Re: Newish two stroke
Post by: skypig on October 17, 2015, 10:19:01 am
Looking good!

I've heard of someone fitting the WR tranny from a WR450 to the new 250 smoker. Required some machining apparently.
Title: Re: Newish two stroke
Post by: Nathan S on October 17, 2015, 11:38:10 am
Looking good!

I've heard of someone fitting the WR tranny from a WR450 to the new 250 smoker. Required some machining apparently.

I haven't done it, but apparently the cases need some additional clearance around 1st gear. Nothing that can't be done with a die-grinder.

Title: Re: Newish two stroke
Post by: skypig on October 17, 2015, 12:39:06 pm
I love Yamahas.
Think the modern YZs are unbelievable.
But.
KTM300EXCs come stock with a 6 speed WR transmission.....
Title: Re: Newish two stroke
Post by: 80-85 husky on October 17, 2015, 10:07:22 pm
why would you stuff around having to modify something when you can buy one that works?
Title: Re: Newish two stroke
Post by: skypig on October 23, 2015, 06:03:24 pm
According to "Cycle Torque" magazine.
The 2 smoke has a 5 speed Wide Ratio tranny (MX 5 CR)
And the 4 stroke version has a 6 speed (MX version is 5)

Either (both?) would make excellent club level MX bikes, with more flexibility. (For private property use)

Neither has ADR which is the real shame.
Title: Re: Newish two stroke
Post by: Paulos on October 24, 2015, 07:03:31 am
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/brunswick/motorcycles/tm-en250-2010-alloy-frame/1092772923
Title: Re: Newish two stroke
Post by: 80-85 husky on October 24, 2015, 08:33:23 am
that's a lot of bike for not much money....
Title: Re: Newish two stroke
Post by: Paulos on October 24, 2015, 08:52:26 am
Looked like a good deal to me...
Title: Re: Newish two stroke
Post by: oldyzman on October 24, 2015, 10:06:13 am
I rode one of those a couple of years back, real eye opener compared to the 300exce which i was used to riding.
Title: Re: Newish two stroke
Post by: Nathan S on October 24, 2015, 08:40:04 pm
TM250s are a bit of a lemon. I hate the way the alloy framed ones handle (although the steel frame ones handle beautifully), and the strict rule of "new rings every 25 hours or it will cost you a motor" is a bit of a drag. Add in a shit power delivery that wouldn't have won friends in the 70s, and expensive parts... there's a reason they sell cheaply.
Title: Re: Newish two stroke
Post by: Paulos on October 24, 2015, 09:05:17 pm
they do have that doodad bolted onto the cylinder that fixes everything?
Title: Re: Newish two stroke
Post by: oldyzman on October 24, 2015, 10:04:34 pm
I must say the one i rode seemed cool with the ohlins etc, but the power delivery was a bit like my YZ125E but with double HP..
Title: Re: Newish two stroke
Post by: Nathan S on October 26, 2015, 08:56:31 am
they do have that doodad bolted onto the cylinder that fixes everything?

The PV controller doesn't fix everything - it's about 10% of the solution.

The prehistoric combustion chamber design is the single biggest problem, but not the only one.

I'm told the TM company is (still) a hobby for some very wealthy businessmen. I speculate that they don't take it as seriously as they would if TM was their main source of income...
Title: Re: Newish two stroke
Post by: skypig on October 26, 2015, 09:58:13 am
they do have that doodad bolted onto the cylinder that fixes everything?

The PV controller doesn't fix everything - it's about 10% of the solution.

The prehistoric combustion chamber design is the single biggest problem, but not the only one.

I'm told the TM company is (still) a hobby for some very wealthy businessmen. I speculate that they don't take it as seriously as they would if TM was their main source of income...

I have no knowledge of TM combustion chambers but am surprised they are prehistoric.
TM are aledgely 2 stroke specialists, making go kart motors? Then again, the are Italian.

Certainly, in every test I've read, they are never quite "there", engine wise.

They, and Husky (this year) are the only game in town for factory SM race bikes.
Title: Re: Newish two stroke
Post by: Nathan S on October 26, 2015, 11:59:53 am
The 250/300 motor barely changed from 1994 until very recently (2010 at least, but 2012 sticks in my mind).

The combustion chamber is old school - narrow squish band with way too much squish clearance and too high a compression ratio. This makes them impossible to jet cleanly, to minimise the effect of the old school porting.
I had my 94 YZ250 and 08 TM250 out at a track on the same day. While the TM had better brakes, suspension and ergos, there was no question about which bike had the better motor or handled better...

The bridge in the TM250 exhaust port is too narrow, and buckles into the bore when it's hot. This is probably compounded by having cool water from the radiators being dumped straight on top of the exhaust port. So the bridge cuts into the ring, until the un-worn part of the ring snags in the exhaust port, which destroys the ring, piston, barrel and power valve. This happens between 25 and 30 hours, pretty much like clockwork.

Having the bridge built up with weld (to make it wider) and then relieved before replating, is supposed to make a big improvement.
I'm also told the later ones have a redesigned barrel, but have no experience with these.

Add in the issues with threads pulling out of the sand-cast cases, and it's hard to get excited by a billet brake pedal...

(I should mention that I've also owned two TM125s, and loved them both to bits. I still have the 94 model I bought in 1997, and selling the 04 model is one of two or three biggest regrets).
Title: Re: Newish two stroke
Post by: skypig on October 26, 2015, 12:18:28 pm
I love these forums.
You aren't going to read that info on a brochure!
Title: Re: Newish two stroke
Post by: ITDOG on November 04, 2015, 12:45:45 am
(http://i572.photobucket.com/albums/ss165/ickydog66/SAM_4404.jpg) (http://s572.photobucket.com/user/ickydog66/media/SAM_4404.jpg.html)
she is done :o
Title: Re: Newish two stroke
Post by: skypig on November 04, 2015, 12:48:33 am
Wow. Looks like new.
Too good to ride?
Title: Re: Newish two stroke
Post by: ITDOG on November 04, 2015, 12:50:22 am
never too good to ride!!!!....will be getting dirty real soon  ;)
Title: Re: Newish two stroke
Post by: rocketfrog on November 04, 2015, 01:59:57 pm
I think only Yamaha diehards would go for this shiney new toy. Everyone else I know wouldn't walk further than a KTM dealer for a machine to fill this role (arguabley) perfectly.
Title: Re: Newish two stroke
Post by: frostype400 on November 06, 2015, 09:05:17 am
Till you need parts though Ktm is so dear on parts I have a rc8r and a husaberg 550 so have recently needed some stuff through Ktm.
Title: Re: Newish two stroke
Post by: FourstrokeForever on November 06, 2015, 09:55:12 am
I think only Yamaha diehards would go for this shiney new toy. Everyone else I know wouldn't walk further than a KTM dealer for a machine to fill this role (arguabley) perfectly.

I think having an old "new toy" makes a lot of sense if your not racing enduro. For a start, the bike has been built from the ground up with a lot of pride and great attention to detail so he knows the bike inside and out. Wether or not it's the ducks guts is not the point. He likes the bike and it brings back happy memories.
It's why I keep my 03 Husaberg 501 instead of having the latest and greatest. Been there, done that, lost a truck load of cash each year. I had a great time with my then new 501 so i went and got another low hour '03 501. It'll do me until I hang up my boots....
Title: Re: Newish two stroke
Post by: Slakewell on November 06, 2015, 11:42:22 am
If the price of these is close to the KTM/Husky why would you buy one?

I paid 8k for brand new 2010 YZ 250 which was 4k less than the KTM at the time, for bike I dont ride much and with a few cheap mods it's a dam good bike for everything. Will price the wide ratio gears thou and may install.
Title: Re: Newish two stroke
Post by: Nathan S on November 06, 2015, 01:05:57 pm
Yamaha parts prices have been making me cry lately. Nearly $100 for an axle nut and adjuster block... And they didn't order the washer that I needed, either...

The nice folk at Yamaha Australia have also made sure there's not a dealer within 50 minutes of home or work, so it's pretty easy to buy stuff from overseas now...

--------

The Rec Rego kit on the YZ250X pushes the price above that of a 2016 Beta 250RR.

Beta has cheaper parts prices, electric & kick start, full ADR compliance, and a 6-speed.
I really think the YZ250X needs a RRP closer to $9000 than $10,000 to be as successful as it deserves to be.
Title: Re: Newish two stroke
Post by: rocketfrog on November 09, 2015, 12:06:46 pm
I think only Yamaha diehards would go for this shiney new toy. Everyone else I know wouldn't walk further than a KTM dealer for a machine to fill this role (arguabley) perfectly.

I think having an old "new toy" makes a lot of sense if your not racing enduro. For a start, the bike has been built from the ground up with a lot of pride and great attention to detail so he knows the bike inside and out. Wether or not it's the ducks guts is not the point. He likes the bike and it brings back happy memories.
It's why I keep my 03 Husaberg 501 instead of having the latest and greatest. Been there, done that, lost a truck load of cash each year. I had a great time with my then new 501 so i went and got another low hour '03 501. It'll do me until I hang up my boots....

I was referring tp the  new Yamaha WR250 2t as per the first post, not ITDOGS fine looking machine. Makes no sense to me to spend so much cash fixing up old bikes and I cannot justify it in anyway financially. Still that does not stop me from spending the time and the cash to do it myself, I admit, my name is Jason and I am an addict.
Title: Re: Newish two stroke
Post by: rocketfrog on November 09, 2015, 12:17:24 pm
I thought that spares prices for KTM were steep for some items (graphics) and reasonable for others (clutch cover). I admit that I have not spent a great deal on my trusty old 99 model 300EXC. I believe it is one of the cheapest bikes to keep in good shape that I have ever owned, and definitely the best trail bike i have owned.

It actually befuddles me how the OEM charge $100 plus for graphics (printed vinyl stickers) and yet $59 for a set of bars (OEM which were AFAM alloys IIRC). I think a new Rad shroud was actually cheaper than the sticker that goes on it?
Title: Re: Newish two stroke
Post by: 80-85 husky on November 19, 2015, 07:16:24 pm
maattee, look at the today generation. how much time and $$ goes into "lookin goooood duuude" Cant ride out of sight on a dark nite but still lookin goood...

factories worked out years ago to charge for the small most likely to be broke or changed parts and keep major (its too expensive sell it to the wreckers) parts cheap to keep the bike going and continually consuming cables, pistons clutch plates etc.
Title: Re: Newish two stroke
Post by: jimg1au on November 19, 2015, 09:47:51 pm
nathan i thought you liked riding my 04 tm300 enduro it just chuged along when you wanted and also took off when you wanted amy thought it was better than her ktm 300 enduro bike that wonderfull day at yass
jim
Title: Re: Newish two stroke
Post by: Nathan S on November 19, 2015, 10:35:34 pm
nathan i thought you liked riding my 04 tm300 enduro it just chuged along when you wanted and also took off when you wanted amy thought it was better than her ktm 300 enduro bike that wonderfull day at yass
jim

That "wonderful day"? I love your positivity!

I'd love to have another go on that bike.