OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: fatboyracing on August 23, 2007, 06:39:38 am
-
Hi All,
Noise emissions from our vintage bikes is going to be very important next year after being tested at the nationals this year and failing I have looked at ways of making my bikes quieter for next years nationals. I can tell you ,you will be tested next year and some how our bikes need to be at the new readings of 96db this year it is a bit realistic at 102db. My bike has a reading at the moment at 109db and I may have to change my pipe to quieten it, I have a Peter Allen Power pipe from the 70s and it is noisy , back then noise was not a problem. I have been told that this year was a warning and next year you must comply with the GCRs. I have tested all my bikes and they all failed my best was my DT 250 at 103db and the worst was my XL 350 at 109db I don.t know how to get them down I am going to try a few things in the next months i.e repacking and rapping the pipe. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Fatboy
-
Noise Emissions. :o Surely not. These old tarts bellowed from the day they where made, now we have to quiet them. ::)
-
one word packing and lots of it
-
How do they test the noise level? At what distance and rev range? Like a 2 stroke at idle always seems louder than a 4 stroke at idle but its a different story when ya feed them both some gas. The modern 4 strokes bark like hell and the noise carries for miles but a 2 stroke with correctly packed silencer on doesnt seem no where near as loud. I can understand you guys worring about it. I would be piss if I wasnt allowed to race because my bike was a bit loud, esspecially when some of them havnt got repackable silencers.
-
DJR's question about how they're tested is very important. If it's any sort of stationary test, then it will be a complete waste of time.
Rally cars are supposed to be tested before every event - there's a clearly defined, stationary test.
Problem is, even before comeptitors implement their 'work-arounds', it proves nothing - a ported rotary at 5000rpm with no load is always going to be loud, but they're relatively quiet on the road. Similarly, a turbo car running anti-lag will usually breeze through the noise test, but will make a huge racket out in the forest.
A mate has a twin-Webered 1600cc car. It's quiet. But it regularly fails the noise test because it crackles through the exhaust at 4000rpm with no load... :roll:
So the upshot is that cars are no longer being tested. Unrealistic, unrepresentative rules quickly become unenforceable.
My local (car) hillclimb track tests the cars while they're competing - every car on every run. Works well, but I've got NFI how you make that work in a race situation where there's more than one bike/car on the track at once.
-
YOu cant test a passing bike do to rebounds of any object or distortion in the enviroment. any test not in a controlled enviroment is a joke to keep the officals happy. Road races usually has a microphone at drive by level and pulls redings as they race past. Same problem though sticking a reader on the track and praying its at zero at set up is only a guide, the allowance would need to be even greater if any MX bike was tested on a drive by due to the enviromental factors being even more uncontrollable. THey have had a lot of issues with this in the states, due to tracks closing as the urban sprawl wanting the land, then inforcing the limits. ill put a link up to there forums as this topic has been a great debate over there as they try to work 99db rating on Flat track harleys ?
-
As we type the boffins in the Institue's accoustic lab have all the answers.Just a matter of 'special' packing and hole size in perforated tube I am reliably informed.One hope's the db meter is never pointed toward the rolling test bed TS 400 :D
-
uhuh Lozza. Packing is Old (pains me to use the word) "Tech".
A two smoke pipe is all about acoustics. Alll about acoustics as The institute well knows.
"To defeat them selves use sound waves. Herh herh herh."
(http://www.yodaspeak.co.uk/yoda.png)
-
Some very good points are under 96db is near impossible, Track and sports admin need to create better absorbing features, trees, soft walls and all sorts or enviromental curves can soften the sound right down to nothing at 200m, its the niose outside the track that should be monitored, not the bikes so too speak, if a single bike is loud from 200m then it can be controlled and asked to get its DB down, but enforcing it in a drive by is futile and will kill the sport. Track managers, MA reps and clubs need to lobby the sound levels be set to resonable levels per class as per year levels, no matter how you squeeze some things they where never meant to be squeezed, how can you have a pre 75 bike with a 2007 packed pipe it spoils the patina ? then all sound levels should be noted per track at levels based on where they are in relation to the enviroment / community. WHy would you need to enforce sound levels at a track in the middle of nowhere ? or a rediculas 96 level. maybe if it was a inner city track it could be brought right down. but they have to get away from pushing the bikes down to far, and not looking at the fundemental factors in noice abaitment - the enviroment. most MX have trees and shrubs, correctly placed and mounted we can cut outside noise in half. this debate is always skewed
-
WOnt work - old debate and if the Pro's in the US cant do it there is no hope for a bunch lads riding old bangers, even with the institute powers, all it will do is sporn more wacky "brocky powercells" or buy now items like this --> http://www.impulsengine.com/newproducts/negative_supercharging_emission_vapourisor_muffler.shtml
" I went to the South East Am Regionals and
>tested with my CRF 450 Pro-tec low pipe at 105 with AMA's
>meter, same brand as mine which tested 99!!! Huh? Go figure!
I can tell you why. Unless a sound meter is calibrated using ASME or CAGI guidelines BEFORE EACH USE, the readings will not be the same, therefore, can not be used in favor of or against someone. I tried to say this a few weeks ago on this forum, but was basically laughed off as a crackpot. What the AMA is trying to do (lowering sound levels at races) is a great thing, they are just going about it all wrong. The AMA is going to have to hire an Engineer that knows what the heck (s)he is doing, and train the people that are responsible of these sound tests, and train them using quality dB meters. I've said it before and I'll say it again, you CAN NOT enforce these readings using a $50 meter from Radio Shack. It takes, at a minimum, $1000 worth of equipment, and a person certified in the use of this equipment. They will have to put a person on the payroll that can travel to various races to take these readings. That, or pay to have a couple thousand people across the country certified in the use of this quality equipment. If / when the AMA decides to do this, someone please let me know. I want to apply for the job. I was trained for it using the CAGI guidlines. "
can you see MA spending all that coin to ship certified meters and personell round the country to make a correct reading ? NOPE - if you get refused lodge a protest and still race. unless you racing at the island you cant tell me they will be uuble to meter you under 100db at a MX track
-
yep i got it here is the answer -->
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
See its the enviroment not the bikes in general ! -->
Majority of complaints we receive during racing is regarding the Public Address System more than the noise from the race vehicles.
At one track we can race up to 8pm, we can start as early as 7am, however we cannot make any announcements over the PA after 6pm in the evening. The neighbors have an agreement with track management regarding that.
Three of the Indoor Buildings we lease for races have outside speakers. We always remember to cut off the outside PA speakers before 9pm to keep the neighbors from complaining. Never had a complaint about the noise from the engines, just from the PA system.
Attend the 5th Annual AMP Outlaw Winter Nationals
Oct-April 2007-2008
OK Corral Indoor Arena
-
Acoustic reduction = attenuation
As we are all we aware , Maximum engine performance requires minimum pressure drop though the acoustic reduction device or silencer.The required Acoustic performance as stated in the previous posts can be easily achieved though silencer design whilst maintaining minimum pressure drop and retaining the required performance . The issue faced with such silencer design is overall size , ie weight and length of the required device . They certainly will not look pretty , but they sure will be effective.
Now having said that , if you have a noise meter of reasonable quality (and it must be of reasonable quality and suitably calibrated),that is used by a person not suitably trained in the use of such a device(and i doubt that any of the individuals using said devices will be trained acoustic engineers capable of interpreting the readings taken) the data or reading will be highly questionable.
Take into account the evironmental variables including the variations in background acoustics at any given location where such measurements are taken ,as stated in previously , the acoustic measurements will be highly questionable to say the least.
-
... all sound levels should be noted per track at levels based on where they are in relation to the enviroment / community. WHy would you need to enforce sound levels at a track in the middle of nowhere ? or a rediculas 96 level. maybe if it was a inner city track it could be brought right down. but they have to get away from pushing the bikes down to far, and not looking at the fundemental factors in noice abaitment - the enviroment. most MX have trees and shrubs, correctly placed and mounted we can cut outside noise in half. this debate is always skewed
Hey, good post!
The maximum meter reading that's enforced means nothing in itself. The only thing that really matters is if it pisses off the nearby residents.
Other thing worth mentioning is that think the meter should be calibrated in the dB-A scale, but they never seem to be.
-
Freaky and Nathan, you 2 have it right I reckon. Its not the noise at the track. Lets face it, we as riders like the sound of motorbikes and I would say that most of the spectators at meeting are the same. So really its the near by neighbors that are the problem. There should be a db reading outside the track at a certain distance. But in saying that how do you know which bike/s are the noisey ones. If it is only in certain races then you are narrowing down the culprit, and lets face it as riders we generally know which bikes are noiseier than others. As Freaky has already said, if they (officals) cant get a true or standardize reading, then as riders you wouldnt want to accept being not allowed to ride esspecially if the next bike was the same and it was allowed to race.
I surpose we are lucky over here (at the moment, but it is coming) because the only thing at the meetings that has DB on it is the BEER, and we like lots ;D
-
Gidday Guys Donny here at Coffs we were asked to have some bikes tested on noise levels at the Nationals. Not official just to let everyone know this is coming.Everyone tested went over the limit. The noise meter is held stationary at rear of bike and bike had to be reved to xxx amount of revs which then gave a reading, revs are monitored through another dohicky near motor. Didnt watch this happen so i am a bit vage on it.
-
G'day Donnie Yes we can all blame those f*^#!g 4 strokes.Just to show how silly things can get,when a Speedway was held at the Sydney Showgrounds there was strict noise limits all the little cars and bikes were lumbered with big 'Lukey' style mufflers (like the one pictured) while leaving we saw a EPA noise tester with his little meter.Being the inquisitive type I got him to give me a quick rundown on how the testing worked.Uh Mmm ....I see.... very interesting...uh huh.... and so on until I squeezed it out of him if anything had gone over the limit.Yes the crowd noise as way over."Hmmm do you test at the One Day cricket" I asked, no was the reply. "Why would we do that" he asked......... So there you have it a crowd noise from the speedway is somehow 'offensive' and apparently cricket yobs aren't
-
... revs are monitored through another dohicky near motor.
This is fascinating. Anyone know anything more about this?
Presumably some sort of inductive pick-up? Presumably with a switch for fourstroke vs real motors?
-
Hi Guys,
Here is the testing procedure
Place the microphone 500mm from the exhaust pipe at an angle of approx 45degrees measured from the centre line of the exhaust at the height of the exhaust pipe The microphone must be a minim of 200mm from the ground where this is imposable due to low pipe the microphone should be placed 45 degrees above the outlet.
The readings should be taken with the engine warmed up,running steadily at the following revs
up to 85cc = 8000 revs
85cc to 125cc = 7000 revs
126cc to 250cc 5000 revs
251cc to 500cc 4500 revs
over 500cc 4000 revs
The test shall be done in a clear area 5MTS round with a background noise no more than 80dbs
Other then the sound testers (2) and the rider no one else should be within 3 MTS
Don't fool yourselves that you will not be tested and that Ma won;t spend the money to buy testing equipment and test bikes .All states have testing equipment now, I know because MTas have just spent over $1000.00 to get the test gear that all other states have already gotten.Myself and my assistant tested our first lot of modern bikes at the Tasmanian State Round on the weekend with 16 tested 12 passed and 4 failed. these tests were done to make people aware of the limits ready for next year.No bikes were disqualified but next year I don't know.
Cheers
Fatboy
-
probally a 100 kart tech digital tacho with a pick up cliped to your spark lead. woops sorry sir the 2 smoker shows double pulses drrrrrrr.
The whole things a crock, you can quieten the scene, but thats not the niose, its the background niose, and yes lozza your un austrlain if you bagg all the niose the footy, rugby and cricket make , but hey MA are piss por when it come to flexing some muscle with the epa.
-
The Meter for reading revs is called a Sirometer and is avaliable at any Briggs and Stratton Agent. They are very accurate between 800 and 50000 revs. The unit is held on the side of the motor when running
The unit costs about $60.00
For more info www.treysit.com
Cheers
Fatboy
-
Place the microphone 500mm from the exhaust pipe
well ther you have it ? when was the last time someones head was 500mm from your pipe ?
political correctness gone made yet again, the mic should be measured more than 10mm from the output, thats the closest any one can get to it on the track ? they measure rock concerts outside the stadiums, so why should theytreat motorsport any differant ? IM goin to buy a set of golf clubs cause that the only sport well be playing in a years time. This crap didnt work any where else in the world so why do they think it will work here ? the US flat track scene is imploding cuase the non pro rider who cant pass the DB allowances are having to pack up and drive home. Would you like to drive across country to a race meet for 3-5 hours, even one hour to find you can just pack up and turn around ? Tasmania? theres a risk, might be fine tested here but if you get a differant reading overthere you pack up and come back another day. this whole thing shits me because its beurocracy gone made again, and the sport should be fighting for it to be measured in a way that finds a medium, if my car has a complience plate prior to 75, i dont even need to have seat belts in it ? so go figure, a blanket raid on all bikes is unfounded and stupidity. IT should be class based by technology like everything else in the GCR. If my club is stupid enough to try to enforce it you'll find 40% OFf THE RIDER WILL QUIT. then agai dont know why im venting here - no one here can change stupidity with logic.
-
For more info www.treysit.com
Cheers
Fatboy
yer right fool proof that gizmo ::)
-
Some of you seem to be making excuses so you can justify your loud bikes because it all seems too hard.
NOISE HAS KILLED MANY A TRACK/RIDING SPOT and it should not be taken lightly.
No, spectators don't have their heads 500mm from the exhaust but the test is done this close so other influences like buildings & bushes don't effect the reading, as has been suggested, it's all relevant.
The accuracy of any test will always be questioned, but if the majority of bikes pass & yours doesn't then I wouldn't be blaming the procedure.
Everyone likes to bag 4 strokes but at the end of the 2 stroke reign we had to endure the "shorty" muffler. What bonehead thought this up?
And most of America's noise problems have come from their own manufacturers who have enticed top riders to use loud systems ensuring that the masses would follow suit. These large companies have the resources to develop something better but won't put in the R & D. Europe has had tighter noise restrictions for a while without too much drama.
-
Too true Geoff, but the real issue is that this seems to be more about arbitrary limits than actual harm reduction.
Take HEAVEN's Buladelah track for example - there's only one house (that I know of) nearby, and its occupants were watching and enjoying the racing... If sending people home for having a too 'loud bike' from that venue has any benefits to anyone, then I'd love to know about them.
-
First up I bloody love the loud noises of racing engines on heat!!!, Vincent Speedway Sidecars ,Kawasaki triple two strokes on the asphalt, A Top Fuel Dragster making your ears pound and the air pulsate as it rockets past!!!!!!......... but it all has to end. Yep make all the excuses you like about presumed dodgy measuring iinstruments but basically you got two options, quieten your machines or quit...... Oh lets try modifying tracks to stop noise traveling. Hmmm, Build embankments and sound deflectors. You cannot even get enough flag marshals on race days, how the bloody hell you going to get lots of hard workers to do that sort of long heavy stuff??? not to mention the council approvals and astronomical costs that would be totally out of sight for 100% clubs I know. Lets plant some growing noise covers, and wait 4,5,6 or more years not riding to see if they maybe grow and then possibly work.
Think does that noisy little prick on the Chink pit bike pisses you off! Yes! Our sports noises pisses others off just the same, they get our tracks closed forever!!!!!!!!! gone final ! not just stopped out for 1 meeting and told to fix it.
Never thought I would say this and mean it, Grow Up and Quieten Down. Tim
-
That's fair enough too Nathan, but define nearby. I live about 4 K's from Broadford and can often hear the bikes, allthough it doesn't bother me ( I always consider that their teasing me, come out & play, come out & play) But I know of others that are closer & further than me and don't like it.
Also you don't set your noise limits for different tracks, it needs to be a uniform limit to be workable, so while it may not matter at one track your bike should be setup to ride at any track.
-
Some of you seem to be making excuses so you can justify your loud bikes because it all seems too hard.
personally i dont too shits what every body else does, but your right i along with alot of peaple cant be screwed having to mess abput making a 2 stroke muffler to make it make the limits, i dont have time to clean my air filter let alone piss about packing a muffler, or paying the rediculas prices you guys extort. FFS its noise , i live near thre airpport but thats my chioce. Like it or not Timbo if you dont make it user frendly you can have all the track you like but when only 4 ridder turn up, they will be forced to close anyway, you think its hard getting people to a working bee, well you kill of the peripheral riders and crunch your track unworkable anyway, and not only cant you run the canteen but, no marshals, no gate staff no nothing. you read up in the forum in the states and its not working there, and they cant get the equipment to work inthe pro classes so i dont care how much shit they buy up to test in AU its still a crock. MY lawn mower pulls more than 100db and i mow for an hour at a time.
uniform > why why should my local track in SA 15 km from anywhere have to have the same levels as your ? thats bullshit, and you cant convince me other wise, that selfish on your part, you do what you like at your track , but dont go imposing your will on mine. if it can out with a standard pipe it should be run, if it was sold with a db rating you should try and meet it, but like they say trying to make a elephant tip toe is stupid. PS you can get great shrubs and acoustics that can be immediate effect on noice so i cant agree with you there, and i remeber when we had to have an air fence or we couldnt race and we had to hire one every event on the road races, same thing after awhile they realise it was a dumb idea and allowance were made, because it increased the entry fee by $20 a head, and people stopped riding overnight. you might not be able to stop the noise debate, but it should be culled back so it is workable at your track. Standard levels only work at national levels, at grass root levels it will kill interestate entry fees for sure, cause no one will chance it.
then again its only poxy VMX and some crust old bikes so who cares right.
-
I agree with what every one says I personly think rules could be relaxed for Historic racing I.e Classic Motocross and Road racing .Our club lost a track just this week when when the local council revoced our permit 6 votes to 5 the person who successfuly complained to the council lives 2 km away, They are horse people and got all the people in the area to complain to Council. Saddly the council is full of crusty old F@#$%$ers that don't give a shit if we race or not.The young councilers did vote in our favor as they could understand that we only race there 4 Sundays a year and the noise from 2km away would be very low. We are now going to the appeals board.
Cheers
Fatboy.
-
I have often argued that an efective lobby group would be invaluable in cases like fatboys.
If a similar weight of facts and figures about how much MONEY competitors spend in the town and how if you shut the track this goes to another town.Crusty old gits on the council look upon the decision differently.If you get the local Chamber of Commerce on side they can have influence with councils more than 'horse people'.I would present a barrage of facts & figures to show how things like this impact economicaly on the town/region and how towns like Bathurst have greatly benefited from having a race track.It's all crap but sounds better than 'we want to burn some petrol'
-
Please forgive me if I'm wrong or talking through a hole in my head as I dont live over there, so I dont know all the ins and outs of your system. But since its your own governing body who is going to do this cant there be a committee of VMX members throughout Oz (collectively) put forward ideas to MA that are more vmx friendly. After all you are the members of MA and they collect your money like everyone elses so they should be working for you or at least trying to work with you. I hate to say it but I surpose we have to move with the times, but at least if a proposal is put forward that is more agreeable to both parties is that a step in the right direction? And if you do this soon isnt it showing your governing body that you are trying to take steps (albeit small ones) but isnt it better to be pro-active and maybe get it written in the rule book by vmxers(more user friendly) than have it written in there by someone who doesnt know anything about old bikes.
Even if it meant having to hire the sound equipment and take readings from the perimeter of the track at a vmx meeting and then doing the same at a modern meeting.(these readings could be quiet different) and if they are maybe vmx could have amendments to the rules. Its always better to get in first than try and change rules once they are made.
But hey as I said I dont know the ins and outs of how things work over there and I am definitely not trying to tell you guys what to do(far from it) but as we all know if you sit back and do nothing then what ever happens will happen.
I'm with you Freaky but the way I see it is get in first and try to limit the damage before the damage is done and I do believe that the noise thing is going to be more difficult for us (vmxers) because nothing was ever considered or made for noise control. Some bikes brand new didnt even have silencers.
But anyway a bit of food for thought from a vmxer across the ditch.
Will you at least offer me a blindfold before letting rip ??? ;)
-
uniform > why why should my local track in SA 15 km from anywhere have to have the same levels as your ? thats bullshit, and you cant convince me other wise
While it may not matter at your track, I can't see the point in having 10 different mufflers to swap around to ride at 10 different tracks just so you can have the loudest bike possible.
Do you think having a loud bike is going to help you win?
-
What ever you do someone will still be offended by it. Even the most logical solution will still find critics.
Barleigh ranch at Newcastle was mentioned as a site for a motorsport complex a few years back adjacent to the existing bike track. That track is in the middle of a forest with a few farmlets surrounding and miles from any township. Did it go ahead? Nope.
Face it guys , The environmental concerns have taken hold and wont go away. People have irrational fears and real fears that we the target group cannot grasp but never the less they do be real to them and we need to accept this as fact. Arguing the point wont make it go away.
Just because someone else may create more noise is no reason we shouldnt do what we can to minimise the impact we are having.
If VMXers are seen as environmentally aware this can go a long way to getting the Greenies on our side. Tree planting is one idea and there are heaps more but it will take money as thats what its all about. who can sway the lobby groups the most to get thier own way.
Sadly we dont have available to us the readies to do this so we lose unless we can think smart. Plant a tree and quiet your bike down and self regulation at a club level will show the authorities we are concerned and we will keep what we have for a little longer .
-
, I can't see the point in having 10 different mufflers to swap around to ride at 10 different tracks just so you can have the loudest bike possible.
Do you think having a loud bike is going to help you win?
winning whats that ? being screwed over by pipe builders peddling quieter mufflers ? might be good for you geoff but no one else. What idiot would need 10 mufflers anyway? i have one muffler on my bikes and there they stay. if i feel the need to compete interstate i will make the call if i need to attend to my resonators/silencers, that in noway needs me to have 10 mufflers - what a stupid comment.
None of my bikes go over 100db currently GCR rate noise at 98-100 so im good dude, i dont have loud bikes, but what i do have is a note that gives me a stiffy evey time i turn them over.
i have a leo vance pipe on my road bike that sounds like an F1 but its still road and track legal. What i do have a problem with is these peanuts pushing our bikes down to 96 db next year with all the other bikes, explain to me in english how a 33 year old bike is going to be as quiet as a modern that can fit up a silencer it came without of the showroom that is already under 98 ? What logic would try to enfoce that mental ness ?
On my flattracker i have Steve Eklands 74 National Amatuer short track pipe, it was also onboard when he won the Short track Nationals in Santa fe, third at the nationals at the Astrodome, and was a part of his Grand National AMA Rookie of the year award Run in 76, and Pro title short track wins throughout 76/77, someone would have to blow me pretty hard to make me even look at messing around with that pipe, i think we call it "ptena" here - its under 100db, but wouldnt get to 96 or less (which will come in another year after this) unless you killed off any shape this thing holds and had a silencer past the 25mm rear rule you wouldnt make the new limits coming.
These bikes are called 'classics 'for a reason. Evolution stuff can get away with silencers that are modified to control niose down to these minute levels but at plus or minus 2db someone else gets to choose if i ride, WTF .
The rules specify codes right down to lenghth in mm' of foot pegs in some cases like speedway, so it would be a brave person who would say it is too hard to enforce a class based or code based DB limit. Im sure if it meant numbers on the start line im sure i could convience my club to allow us to run under "record attempt" excemption. Trying to break our lap own lap records perhaps, there are ways around it but for the greater good of the classic sport it can only contiue to ride the wave, if fundimentally sensible criteria are set. There is nothing at all stopping MA adding a clause into the rule book specifying a threshold on classic bikes at 100DB or even 98db for that matter, as it is now in the rules, but a slide down to 96db and beyond is suicide. They will all be parked in a garage, or youll all have to start making farmer mate freinds and take up classic trail riding :O)
-
Face it guys , The environmental concerns have taken hold and wont go away.
we shouldnt do what we can to minimise the impact we are having.
Tree planting is one idea and there are heaps more but it will take money as thats what its all about. who can sway the lobby groups the most to get thier own way.
Sadly we dont have available to us the readies to do this so we lose unless we can think smart. Plant a tree and quiet your bike down and self regulation at a club level will show the authorities we are concerned and we will keep what we have for a little longer .
we have have only ever had one complaint at our club in 25 years, and our track is smack bang in the middle of a major town. that 1 city slicker that moved in behind the track a few years back has since moved on but they closed the track down for 6 months whle we attended to there concerns.
The track is set in over 2 acres of council land, the track is in the centre and now has scrub 40 mtres deep surrounding all sides, i have a property on the lower side of the track about 600 m away and if they are running an event we can hardly hear it, the sound absorbtion of native trees and scrubs is amazing, even trees for life or who ever they are love it cause they keep planting more trees and doing all the weeding in there. It has animals and all sort living in the native trees and bushes everyone is happy.
The track also runs ride days so the community /un licenced riders can come and try, on these days and race day we have a demonstration class of Pee wees, last round we had over 13 kids under 9 riding there pee wees and waving to the crowd, the community comes out in force to watch these kids ride around, mums , dads , grand parents, most people comment on how good it is to see these kids riding in the fresh air , and how it reminds them of the old days, we now have a very strong commitment from the council, community and the local paper who back us right up and have endorsed the clubs efforts and even promoted events asking for more to be scheduled. BY having the support of the locals, and by utilsing a natural barrier around the track we dont seem to have a niose problem. Which is why we dont need someone to regulate it for us, or dictate how we run our events.
our race/ride days are always on sundays ? go figure and they let us run before 10 am, but being good citizens the first class of the day is always the Demo PW's to ease the noise levels up, then 85, then 125 etc etc, the last ride of the day is alway the PW final demo as well so we can fit all the louder classes in during they day, and then the kids can bang around till it gets dark if they like as you cant even hear the pws, running.
What im trying to say here is simple, Noisey bikes should be controlled and managed at a club level, its up to your club to control its riders, but its not up to you to inforce your poor standards on other clubs thereby limiting and controlling there chioces just because your act isnt together, we dont need a rule enforced just because your club cant mange its track. I dont want to be forced to make changes to my bikes and my lifstyle chioces because of other piss poor efforts. IF i choose to ride at your evet or your clubs track i expect to meet those supp. regs and when you get a permit from MA for your event they can enforce a DB limit on your track right there.
It does not need to be shoved down the throat of everyone, just becuase its easyier to stick it to everyone.
-
One of our speedway tracks is located on the edge of a small town and has embankments and trees around it.
The noise complaints don't come from the local residents,but from about 5 kms away.
The noise seems to go over the shielding and come down over a distance,if that makes sense.
I have witnessed this happening,and it is worse on still nights.
In my opinion,we will just have to grin and bear it as well as get smarter in dealing with the councils etc.
One thing is for sure,this issue is only going to get harder to deal with,and MA is on the right track in starting to do something before the so called authorities make up some knee jerk rules eg track closures
and not issuing permits.
-
well thats why you need to start lobbying your local politician. kill it off in its tracks higher up the food chain. Beurocrates makes things happen which ever why get the votes or how hard they get told to do from above. IM not saying dont pull down the limits im just saying they need to be sensible for certain racing eras.
When we have a city stadium speedway in adelaide they fit lukey style boxes and it seems to dull the residents. the sound isnt trackside but as you say km away as a low hum. It seems to as you say lift off the roof structures up and resonate in a conical style wave but then again i can hear a plane at 10,000 feet when they fly over head.
There is a big diffferance to noticable and Annoying, but i still think it needs work before it is blanket cast. ???
-
Gorby
The phenomonon you speak of is a result of noise travelling in a parabolic fashion .
Sound is a wave motion which occurs when a sound source sets the nearest particals of air into motion.The movement gradually spreads to air particals further away from the sound source.
The sound can propagate in the air at speeds greater than 340 metres/sec.In liquids such as water and some solids the propagation velocity can be greater with water exceeding 1500m/s and some metals exceeding 5000m/s.
You may be familiar with the term sound wave. Sound really does travel in a wave fashion . The frequency of the sound pattern or sound power level will determine the low points at which the sound may land(for the what of better term).Example: Sound exists over a very wide frequency range. Audible sound for young people lies between 20hertz and 20000 hertz. at low frequencies the air particals vibrate slowly producing bass tones and high frequencies the air particals vibrate quickly giving soprano tones.
High frequency sound is a very busy and rapid wave where a low frequency sound is lazy relaxed wave .The human ear can be sensative to both high and low frequencies however there are frequency ranges that are particularly annoying.
So imagine if your place is two kilometers away and you are at , say the bottom of one of the sound waves this explains the auditable nature at your location.The sound is basically landing at your place.
Atmospheric conditions play a major part in the projection of sound and will vary the sound end result dramatically.
i hope this helps
Regards
Rob
-
No Shit!: ::) Well it is what your thinking too isn't it!!!!!! thanks Husky ;) Cheers Tim. :D
-
so can we tune our bike to be in the frequnecny that old people cant hear ? but yet the local dogs howl. like some noise cancelling device ? there could be money in this and still race ya bike :o)
-
Freakshow
I'm not sure about tuning a bike to achieve the required sound pressure or as expressed in dBa sound power level , but a very efficient(but very unattractive) silencer would certainly achieve the required acoustic reduction with little reduction in engine performance.
Realistically if the new requirements are as stated the use of efficient silencers will be the only method of meeting the required operating noise levels.
There are devices available that cancel out certain frequencies (white noise generators) however i believe this type of device is not very effective in an uncontrolled outdoor environment.
-
Onya Rob, that forked 'em.
-
However your bike just has to pass the noise test,who gives a rats arse about what happens 2km away :-*
The issue has been sorted in karts, just a combination of hole size and packing ::)
-
Noise testing isn't a new thing in vintage racing. They noise tested competitors at the 98 Nepean Dirt Track Nats and I remember being tested at Ravenswood a few years ago. It's no good whingeing about it. It's the law and that's it. Just get over it and make your bikes legal. Believe me, it's not that hard.
-
There a two particular bodies which would give a shit about a noise complaint two kilometres from the track, particularly if it is consistant for various periods of time and the noise complaint exceeds the relevant requirements of the Australian standard AS 1055. parts 1 ,2 & 3 and various other acoustical standards / guidelines.
One is the initial place of complaint. The local council
Two is the EPA.
The first is not so bad , however if the second group see fit to get on the job , then you have a significant issue that generally requires a great deal of time and expertise to deal with, which generally means a whole lot on money.
You must also consider that should all the bikes at an event meet the pre determine criteria for noise output that does not get us off the hook as far as external noise complaints are concerned
So as advised by many others it is pertinent to deal with the issue rather than ignore it.
-
What logic would try to enfoce that mental ness ?
Logic has nothing to do with the EPA or the Department of Envioment, Conservation, Clean Water and Climate Change as it's now known. They don't give shit if your bike has a genwhine Jimmy Smit's classic amplified open megaphone on the sissy bar that came with the bike, if they take a dislike, that's it. You change or you don't ride. The new Mega Department EPA have unlimited resources, doesn't matter how much you throw yourself down and have a tantrum, they WILL win. The usual tactic is court and they keep going back until your broke or have had enough.
You will change Freakhead or you won't ride, oh and leave Geoff alone ;D
-
What logic would try to enfoce that mental ness ?
They don't give shit if your bike has a genwhine Jimmy Smit's classic amplified open megaphone on the sissy bar that came with the bike, if they take a dislike, that's it. You change or you don't ride.
You will change Freakhead or you won't ride, oh and leave Geoff alone ;D
Now Fool the amplified Sissy bar bit was was funny. very funny.
IF it comes to it i wont ride, easy fixed. BUt best get in and show some colours before we all hide under the couch and you cant undo any rules they stick on you, EPA follow there rule, political rule, you need to get political to change it or make em enforce it on other Sports blah blah blah.
Stick your head in the sand and its already dead.
(98Db is current, 96DB next year and then where to ? my point gentlemen its that nice of you to go down the 'stick a bigger muffler on it track' but that was so last year, im talking abought what do you think your going to do if and when they screw it down under the 92 and beyond ?
And PS fooly, if someone dishes me, im within my rights to give it back, whoever they be. :O)
-
And PS fooly, if someone dishes me, im within my rights to give it back, whoever they be. :O)
No problems ;D
-
agreed ;D
-
agreed ;D
I concur with your agreement of my approval of your rights ;D
-
I'll second that...i guess its passed,like a gaul stone perhaps? :)
-
Hey Brad
Perhaps something a little more pleasant like passing gas.
Brpppppppppppiipppppp
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
-
i think you guys are just spamming to get your post numbers back up you lost on the last forum : :-*
i reckon i got 12 post out of this topic ::) hehehehe
-
i didnt read four pages of this but as per niose regulationa few years back the item in question ie a rc model boat running 30percent nitro with no stinger on the pipe was to run two passes at 30 metres from the testing unit and had to be under 90 dba
if im wrong shoot me but if there getting technical about it there are so many flaws with noise polution laws
-
Yeah. Leave Geoff alone! >:( He's the sort of guy we DO need around who DOESN"T talk out of his arse (unlike some of the people with toilet earnt PhD's ???).......
-
Just brighten everyone up again , I have a little story to show the accuracy of MA and theyr testing .
1986 Raymond Terace Austr. Titles . I just come back from Europe with a 540 KTM in Handluggage ( thats another story) to race that event. Out of the blue comes the MA noise tester in the middle of the bush. I could see the man from MA hade a new toy and did not know how to use it. I hade much experience with those boxes after another season in europe. We quikley learnt how to get passed scruteneering without an argument .(sruteneering mufflers) But anyway , as this (self appointed perhaps) MA man struts through the pits and tries to give people a hard time , I waited for my turn . As he approached my bike , I kindly asked him if I could look at his unit . After a thorough inspection I handed it back to him and pointed out that this was the fourstroke testing unit and not the two stroke tester. He looked a bit puzzled and then went on to give the big fourstroke a hard time. We still have a giggle about that and this debatte has refreshed those memories and I thought , I hade to share it.Cheers Walter :D :D
-
Good story walter, we did kinda cover this on page one, and again highlights the Vagueness and jaundice of this whole train wreck thats coming. ID like to see them fight there way down through our cow paddock to get to the PArawa track.
Funnyily, We had a ride day out there on Sunday, and not only did some south coast boys get lost trying to find it ( they arrived at 3.00 pm - funny i past them in victor at 10.30Am, but after finding the track couldnt figure out how to get throught the cow paddock to get down to the track without being in a stampeed of fresians. All they wanted was to be milked :O)
Funnyist thing i have seen is 4 vans of 'HArdcore' kids standing at a gate and 50 cows staring at them and the look on there faces as they try to figure out how they can open the gate, get through the herd without them escaping or creating what they thought was akin "to running of the bulls in pampaloma"
ONe of the Senior riders had to go and "help" them come in. Id live to see your MA rep with noise meter in hand fighting off cows while being licked to death by a sqaudren of dairy cows hoping to get feed or milked.
-
Whats a toilet PHD ? and my last words on this debate are summed up as follows:
"Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional liberal minority, and by the mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
-
Gentlemen,
Whether we like it or not, sound testing will be a fact of life for 2008.
MA are training testers so there will be no repeats of earlier problems with poor knowledge of the equipment.
To safeguard our sport overall we all need to make some allowances and comply with the new standards.
-
The best thing all you guys(with noisey bikes) should do is send all your bikes over here to NZ and race them here. No MA to worry about, meetings cost about $30 for 5/6 races a day on natural terrain and if ya bikes really noisey it will only scare to sheep away. ;D ;D You do the maths ;)
-
what time is the next boat ? wil you supply free sheep
-
We have 25,000,000 sheep Freaky, if ya cant find ya self one, ya dont deserve ta be here ;D. ps Ya can always use the wool for muffler packing ;)
pps, never come between a kiwi and his sheep ;) ;D ;D
-
DJ,
This is how the test is to be done as per gcr's
Noise emmision must be measures with a microphone placed 500mm from the exhaust pipe at an angle of approx 45 degrees measured from the center line of the exhaust end, and at the height of the exhaust pipe, but at least 200mm from the ground.
The reading shall be taken with engine warmed up running steady at the specified revs and the bike in neutral.
The revs shall be measured using a calibrated tacho or a vibrating reed tacho held against any solid part of the machine.
Ambient sound within a 5 meter radius of machine should not be highter than 80 dba
other than the rider the sound testing operator and a person to hold the front of the machine there should be no person within 3 meters of the machine.
Sound test apparatus should be set on slow response.
Revs for test
85cc 8000rpm
85 to 125 7000rpm
126 to 250 5000rpm
251 to 500 4500rpm
over 500 4000rpm
96 dba as of 1 jan next year.
-
DJ,
You'd better start freaky off on a level sheep. Takes a bit of pratice to handle left or right handed sheep. (Bred with uneven length legs for the sides of hills for those unfamilliar)
And being a kiwi I can make as many sheep jokes as I like. 8)
Brent
-
DJ I like the sound of those hills and the natural terrain circuits, :). Not so sure about the sheep :-\. Which Island are you from ? Cheers, T250
-
Yeah I think I read that back on page 2 of this thread Evo550, but if the ambient sound within 5m of the motorbike cant be higher than 80db does that mean there is 2 db testing machines??
Or am I just being a smartass?
-
Hi Brent, how are ya going? I hope ya aint making to much noise or ya could get sent back home ;D Hope ta see ya back over here for a ride some time soon. Ya should make it the final round of the series and we can catch up with a beer or 3. Freaky will be ok with a good set of velcro gloves ;D ;D. T250K, I'm in the N.I. If ya take a look at the competition thread ya can see those natural terrian tracks and the Tasman sea in the back ground.
Sorry guys dont mean to take over the thread, I better shut up or I'll get booted for being to noisey ;)
-
You mean 'groupies' ;D
Couldn't let that one pass now could I............... :-*
-
Love the Kiss Lozza........... but I'm afraid I aint your kinda toothbrush ;) :-*
-
Hi all,
Bikes at the junior Nationals htat are being held now in Qld are having there points taken off them if there bikes dont pass the noise test. Something to think about , ??? this is going to be way more common next year.
Cheers
Fatboy
-
A lot of talk about the 96 dB limit on the PCRA site, a sound engineer joined the debate and said that the noise test is bollocks.He describes it as us having a case for the EPA having to classify our machines as 'industrial'(because they are not registered and not designed for street use) hence making the test be performed at the boundary of the premesis.His analogy was that a race bike at the boundry of the race track would be no louder that a mower at your neighbours boundry. Also dirt mounds do absorb sound, not reflect it.Could be a bit of window dressing by MA as Eastern Creek and Broardford have 95dB limits......at 30m.A far more sensible test. councils and the EPA have the juristiction not MA.Probably open to challenge.
-
As of 1 January 2008, the noise limit for most disciplines of motorcycle competition will be 96db(A). The exceptions to this will be:
- Road Racing 102db(A)
- Historic Road Racing 102db(A)
- Speedway 98db(A)
- Track 98db(A)
- Minikhana 95db(A)
IM assuming we come under track ? Otherwise why didnt the MX governing body Loby VMX to be treated as per Historic road racing ? Where is the ruling on this mind field before we piss away a lot of money getting to Tassie and only getting half a grid passing scuitineering ?
-
Wow, scary scenario there, Freaky. As I, DJ, TMBill and sundry others point out repeatedly, in NZ VMX they operate without the sanction of clubs or a national body, so this need never occur. If you are classified under "track", then you are right,vmx should be aligned with historic roadracing. However, the dreaded, and much-threatened noise meter is, in historic roadracing at least, seldom seen, but is always written into supp regs. Now I'll be buggered if I'm going to drag my little roadracer to Phillip Island, Mt Gambier, Broadford or anywhere else FROM PERTH, only to be sidelined by a noise dispute, so I have a pair of ready-made mufflers made that slip over the reverse-cone meggas, and knock the edge off the sound, so that if it ever occurs, I can keep racing. And I recommend that if you have noise concerns, you do the same. Even if your bolt-on extra muffler is hideous, heavy, uncool or whatever, at least you can be out there racing instead of arguing in the pits. Read and interpret the rules, and know them well, and you won't come unstuck. Still sucks though, of course.... ;)
-
Well how do you know your under 98 ? like were would you go to get the bike tested ? i dont think you can ? too late on the day, and every round would be a differant set up so how can we ensure that a bike is eligible to raCE OR CAN THERE be a supp reg written into the NAtional event that has an exclusion to run to 102 DB ? surely the promoters can do that for each event as they see fit ?
-
When I finish building the bike that I want to take to CD-5 I'm going to have a party(very loud music) and my neighbors will call 'noise control' and they will come out to my place with a 'db' meter and I will quickly turn the music down and then start up the bike and keep it reving at 7000rpm, that way I will get it tested for free. ;D ;D ;D hopefully I should still have a bike because they have to give ya a warning first before they can confiscate it :o ;) ;D ;D ;D
Now you say 80db at 5 metres away didnt you??
-
Freakworthy, I forgot to add, the " Just-in-case" mufflers are like taking crash repair parts or spare tubes to a meeting. If you drag them all over the joint "just-in-case" you need 'em, you never, ever do. But, in a dramatic affirmation of the chilling accuracy of Murphy's Law, just try leaving them at home once, and you'll spot a noise meter as you're unloading the trailer.... 8)
-
Still say you must be able to right in the supp regs an increase for historic championships ?
-
Still say you must be able to right in the supp regs an increase for historic championships ?
Unfortunately this is not the case. Supplementary regulations cannot override the rules shown in the rule book.
The whole VMX community needs to lobby their clubs, State controlling bodies, Historic MX Commissioners and MA in regard to noise, and for VMX to be allowed to remain at 102dba as in 2007.
The current noise limit for VMX for 2008 is 96dba. Read the 2008 MA rules which are up on their website.
-
wELL IF FAT BOY GETS IT IN STONE FOR THE naTS AT 102DB THEN THATS THE STANDARD THAT WILL BE USED FOR THE RULING IN 08, wE NEED THAT AS THE PRECEDENT TO BE LOCKED IN , GOING FORWARD. WE NEED TO KEEP REINFORCING 102 IS ok ANYTHING LESS IS GOPING TO KILL THE PATINA AND THE SPORT OFF.
-
wELL IF FAT BOY GETS IT IN STONE FOR THE naTS AT 102DB THEN THATS THE STANDARD THAT WILL BE USED FOR THE RULING IN 08, wE NEED THAT AS THE PRECEDENT TO BE LOCKED IN , GOING FORWARD. WE NEED TO KEEP REINFORCING 102 IS ok ANYTHING LESS IS GOPING TO KILL THE PATINA AND THE SPORT OFF.
You don't seem to understand.
The current (2008) noise limit for VMX is 96dba. This will not be changed unless we all start intensive lobbying with MA and the State Bodies.
This current limit could affect the future of our sport.
-
My 1982 bj42 landcruiser with a 6cyl diesel motor was noise tested prior to rego last year,and came in at 94 db.And as the engineer said before I had the exhaust fiitted "you,re allowed 96db because of the age so don,t make it to quiet". The testing device is held at 500mm from the tail pipe at a 45 degree angle. The thing is that vmx bikes especially Enduro,s that were once registered for road use, all had acceptable noise levels back then. By making up new rules and regulations to comply with current noise levels, is like moving the goal posts halfway through the match. You would think that the Age of the bike would be taken into account here!
-
What say we start a thread that reads something. "A petition to MA in urgency to review noise limits in regards to Vintage Motocross , The current regulations from 1/1/2008 do not take into account that these machines were not designed to meet in anyway the 96db limits, and will lead to the loss therefore of classic machines ,competitors and the viewing public of this warmly received branch of Historic racing." ? Tim 754
Now I just printed that out ,signed it and tomorrow I am posting it to MA. Tim
-
Todays scenario.... Took the Drm ( DR 400 4 stroke ) in to get a new system put on and asked for it not to make any more than 96 db ....your FN kidding me ain't you, How the hell they gunna police that , and I sure as hell won't guarantee it will below that reading ::)
OK just build me a pipe and allow for a muffler that has a removable end section that can be packed or reconfigured baffle ???
He turns around and pulls a muffler off the shelf ... something like this ( about 500 long and 80mm round Na ....something smaller 300 x 80 yep that one .... $500 - :o off a KTM
At this stage he is allowing enough room for the muffler and we will sort it out latter :)
Question ----- where does one get a test done in Qld and certified to meet the ASA # which will be stamped on the completed pipe ?????
-
What say we start a thread that reads something. "A petition to MA in urgency to review noise limits in regards to Vintage Motocross , The current regulations from 1/1/2008 do not take into account that these machines were not designed to meet in anyway the 96db limits, and will lead to the loss therefore of classic machines ,competitors and the viewing public of this warmly received branch of Historic racing." ? Tim 754
Now I just printed that out ,signed it and tomorrow I am posting it to MA. Tim
Tim,
This is a great idea. I hope all other VMX people take note and follow your lead.
-
Hi Ross , would it be possible to bring one of your tester units to CD 5 and people can get their bikes voluntarily tested to see if they are OK ? That would take allot of fear and anxiety away. Because I believe most bikes are under the limit from standard. And perhaps also show people a way to fix the problem.
-
Great idea.
-
Just letting you guys know that the Commission is lodging a protest to MA on the 96db situation (or so I'm told) ;) ;) can I suggest that the arguments for 102dba and the reasons factually why an air cooled 2 smoker and vintage 4 stroker should see this consideration could well be discussed in this forum. ::) ::)
Also why its considerably easier to be compliant with say the modern water cooled 2 stroke in comparison.
Perhaps the rationale why 102db is still Kosher in Historic RR is another point why VMX/CDT should be considered in the same light.
Come on institute membership give us your best advice
-
And it's up to all us club members to chase this up when General Business comes up at this month's club meeting. Terrifying as it is, it's up to us as MA licence holders to look after our future through club and conference conduits, so don't be a passenger, make it a topic of priority at your club meeting this and next month, and let's keep it in the forefront, otherwise we will be deprived of one of the raisons d'etre of vintage mx,for no good reason. After all, have any of you ever been to the F1 Grand Prix ? It is obscenely loud, yet is exempt from noise limits by Government bylaws. So, it's not impossible, but we must remain alert, and stay hand-in-glove with our roadracing buddies. ;)
-
Still say you must be able to right in the supp regs an increase for historic championships ?
Unfortunately this is not the case. Supplementary regulations cannot override the rules shown in the rule book.
The whole VMX community needs to lobby their clubs, State controlling bodies, Historic MX Commissioners and MA in regard to noise, and for VMX to be allowed to remain at 102dba as in 2007.
The current noise limit for VMX for 2008 is 96dba. Read the 2008 MA rules which are up on their website.
I cant find any 2008 reg online with MA where are you looking ? please add a link here.
2007 MOMS says no class to be over 102Db unless a lower limit is specified in that diciplines chapter then refers to 08 going to a generic 96db that indicates to me there are exceptions noted, and as we know there are already exception to that AKA historic RR, whats the Differance to Historic DT or HIstoric MX, i would be arguing very strongly that unless the Chapter specifically states 96 for historic you should be able to compete under the historic guidlines, i have it on good Authority TAs MA is Subbmitting Regs AT 102DB, as a historic class, if that is over ridden your going to get less riders risking a trip like that on the chance they can make the DB's. HAving your bike pretested will only give you a range of where your at today, next week at another track you can be 2db out and fail. 102 is the line in the sand and is akin to the 10FT rule. The other option is to bring in Log books ? Units are DB tested and recorded excepted for the season, also would give you rulings on Class eligibility/ :-\
-
Freaky,
You are totally missing the point.
1. The 2008 MA rules are available at www.ma.org.au
2. The current 2008 noise (sound) limit for Classic Motocross is 96dba. You can argue all you like that 102 should apply but you are wrong
3. Tasmania cannot put 102dba in their supp regs as this would be against the MA Rules and would not be approved.
4. We all need to work hard to have this limit increased to 102dba, and we need to do this now.
-
I always had my classic MX sidecars and the Metisse logbooked with MA. (after Port Pirie Titles)
I did believe that it would cover roadracing and VMX , because many people at the time did use their bike for both disciplines.
I tell you , it is a lot better feeling ,driving to race meet across to anywhere and you know, not even Peter Lawson and his crew can fabricate a protest from nothing and stop you from beating him in a race. ;D ;D.
-
I found this noise emission graph in the back of the General Competition Rules for 1979.
You'll notice the DB limits for the various disciplines were all equal on 110 DB(A); with the exception of the "violinists of the dirt bike world" (borrowed quotation), Trials bikes.
I would assume the trials bikes are way under the radar without trying, such is the nature of their motors and plodding style.
Do they still include these graphs in GCRs; I haven't looked at a copy since '79?
Anyways, that's how it was back in the day...
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
I had down loaded the Gcr's today,
Did not look for the graph but they have a table in the section 12.10 on noise levels that gives rev's /length of stroke ,same as graph to be used for measuring ,
also noticed that modern road racing is also allowed 102Db and speedway 98Db
-
As Ross stated earlier...We need to keep lobbying MA with emails and letters re: lowering the sound emission levels for Classic Motocross. It's no good waffling on all over the forum if you haven't made your feelings clear to MA. If we don't change this ruling a lot of vintage racers will be unable to race their bikes. It's that simple. Email your protests to Ross Martin [email protected]
-
Thanks to those of you who posted your protest letters on this thread.
I was a little unsure of my wording and they helped as a draft.
I've just sent this to Ross at [email protected] and I encourage everyone else to send your letters ASAP.
96db is unfair but right now it's the Law.
I've posted mine here in the hope it helps someone else draft a letter.
It's a tad wordy - but I had something to say.
Ross,
I’m writing to you as I understand you’re part of the group who can make a difference with regard to the current noise emission debate.
The purpose of my letter is to say I’m disappointed, and more than a little alarmed, at the current noise emission levels expected of the Vintage Motocross machines.
As you’re no doubt aware, these machines were built decades ago as pure race bikes.
Noise was not a consideration; and these machines are not designed to be muffled beyond a reasonable range.
The current expectation of 96 db seems highly unfair considering the Historic Road Racing machines are allowed a more achievable 102 db limit.
Both disciplines use machines from the same factories of the same era; and the same Marques fill the starting grids on respective race days.
As an exercise, I asked a young child to point out the difference in a photo of a Classic Road Race Bike and a Vintage Motocross Bike:
I smiled when he said, “One has lumpy tyres and one has smooth tyres...”; he’s not far wrong is he?
Let’s face it, given the similarities between the disciplines there can be no justification to single out the VMX bikes for a lower and quite unreasonable emission level.
Our Country and others are responding to ‘green’ concerns and this debate can easily be linked to this mind set.
The VMX community is no different in that regard; we’re not digging our heels in and refusing to budge.
What we are asking for is an achievable decibel level; parity with our Road Racing aficionados on “smooth tyres” at 102 db.
The VMX community as a whole is concerned over this issue and rightly so.
Our passion for the sport and the huge commitment in time and money is no less than that of the Historic Road Racers.
Given your position in the sport we ask you consider this request and put forward our group concerns to those who can alter this unfair limit.
Thanks for your time; I’d appreciate a response to my letter.
Regards,
Graham Newton
-
Well written Graeme.
-
Well gents I've found the universal panacea for the emmissions/whinger/NIMBY problem unfortunately it won't be to easy to put into practice we just need snow and lots of it.Keeps all the whingers inside and when they do go outside they will have fluffy ear muffs on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbOSwRviFDQ&feature=related
-
this might help
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/NOISE-LEVEL-METER-DIGITAL-INDUSTRIAL-HIGH-ACCURACY_W0QQitemZ300192790228QQihZ020QQcategoryZ25423QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
-
I forwarded my opinions on the noise issue to ross martin and he had the courtesy to reply and mentioned that it would be forwarded to the MA board.
We just need a couple of hundred additional messages to add to the ones already sent.
Don't just whinge about it,send off your thoughts.
As the wise man said "put up or shut up !!! "
-
I was at Barrabool yesterday and they had a big-wig, high-tech sound man there taking readings from all areas of the track. We did four mock starts with full grids so it will be interesting to see what the feed-back will be. (after he de-cokes 10kg of Barrabool main straight from his sound equipment...) ;)
-
Apart from personal letters,
this is the official form in the 2008 Moms for addressing rule changes /amendments. page 38
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j41/Tento850/DSCF2804.jpg)
-
hypothetically speaking..if I were to race my bikes in modern events such as at North Brisbane dirt track or Coff's dirt track then hypothetically speaking which rule would apply??
same bike
same rider
same MA
but 2 sets of rules.. ???
it makes something so very simple so very confusing....
-
I had down loaded the Gcr's today,
Did not look for the graph but they have a table in the section 12.10 on noise levels that gives rev's /length of stroke ,same as graph to be used for measuring ,
also noticed that modern road racing is also allowed 102Db and speedway 98Db
Hmmm... it would seem that MA has made their rules at least partially based on how likely the tracks will be to annoy non-enthusiasts: Road racing circuits are usually built well away from houses, speedway and MX tracks less so...
At which point, the argument 'but we've got old bikes' probably won't be enough by itself. I'd dare say that we need to talk about sound energy (typically 2-stroke old bikes vs typically 4-stroke moderns), field sizes, etc.
-
Hi Guys,
I can tell you that noise regulations in NSW is102db as it says in the GCRs State legislation over rules the GCRs and in NSW the Legislation is 102db at 30 meteres from the racing. This came from your governing body MNSW perhaps we should be finding out what our state legislation is. Down here in Tassie I cant get a answer from anyone but I am looking into it. rule 12.10.1.2 page 91 of the 2008 GCRs :)
Cheers
Fatboy
-
It says" States overrule the GCRs." I think not,... otherwise my current Stewards update training I had 2 months ago ,and all the other instruction has been incorrect. Consult the 2008 Manual of Motorcycle Sport Page 41 section 1.4.0.2 and 1.4.0.3 ,1.4.0.4. Basically it says an SCB (State Controlling Body) may make bylaws but only if they are consistent with the rules as in this book. note 1.4.0.1. The board may amend or revoke any bylaw made under these rules.
That is known in places as a "God rule" meaning these rules in this manual "can and do" over rule any SCB bylaw or supp regs.
It is wordy I know but please consult your 2008 manual people. No good looking at ANY previous year manual as they are effectively fully repealed and fully replaced by the current edition.
Keep on with all the protests and submissions , it will be reviewed . yours Tim
WAKE UP CALL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh and I know it seems like other countries unlike Australia have a free and easy time, But thanks to some of those countries we now have this sue the crap out of everybody bull forking shit!, Why Because I am not responsible in any way for my own actions , bloated insurance scam set up we have now in Australia. You try and have a meeting "with if a blokes got $20 in his pocket, a bike and a good attitude lets race and sort the other stuff out later set up." It is a dream, no it is fairyland madness! Basically somebody, racer ,spectator, child or maybe their stupid dog that should never be there anytime... will get hurt (for real on not!) or complain that noise ,the "environment is being poisoned or some shit and lawyers will take you and lots of other people to the cleaners . No money No classic races No nothing left except wasted bikes stored in sheds.
Now feel free to reread what I just wrote over and over then tell me "That would never happen"
Rules Books, Controlling Bodies and Associations are our only source of regulated insured sport.
-
I'll say it again, snow is the answer ::)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpoEjY7KDdo
-
HAs this been resolved ? are they making an mid year amendment or are they waitng till 2009 after they get shit turn out to nationals for fear of DB failing and pack up and go homes ?
Ubdates please FBC, 211 and whoever else has fingers on the pulse...............
-
Maybe this is the answer
Acme
Jet power kit
NOT recommended for children
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yy4KH88tLSY&feature=related