OzVMX Forum

Clubroom => VMX Sidecars => Topic started by: VMX247 on July 13, 2014, 04:03:29 pm

Title: pre78 sidecars..Port Augusta Australian Championships.
Post by: VMX247 on July 13, 2014, 04:03:29 pm: Leaning on the fence here at Narrogin, chatting to #25 and he's keen for the event.
Of course we need to know if anyone else is entering to make up a class ??
Title: Re: pre78 sidecars..Port Augusta Australian Championships.
Post by: lama on July 14, 2014, 01:24:37 pm: None from up here but good luck to all that do enter have a great weekend :) :)
Title: Re: pre78 sidecars..Port Augusta Australian Championships.
Post by: Nathan S on July 16, 2014, 08:59:50 am: I was speaking to a bloke last week who has a 76 or 77 Wasp, and is reasonably keen to ride, but he thought there was only going to be a Pre-75 class.

(I may make fun of sidecar fans, but these blokes had a modern DT chair, a modern road trial chair and the VMX Wasp... And they were talking about getting a speedway chair. That's properly nuts! :) ).
Title: Re: pre78 sidecars..Port Augusta Australian Championships.
Post by: KTM47 on July 16, 2014, 09:25:44 am: The question has to be asked of the sidecar guys

If the sidecars in the Classic Championships were changed to Pre 78 (instead of Pre 75) would there be more entries? It is too late for this year.

Also similar applies to the Post Classic. Would a change to Pre 90 increase entries or maybe even Pre 85 and Pre 90, run together but scored separate if number warrant it.
Title: Re: pre78 sidecars..Port Augusta Australian Championships.
Post by: odd1 on July 16, 2014, 09:37:15 am: The short answer is yes
Title: Re: pre78 sidecars..Port Augusta Australian Championships.
Post by: lama on July 16, 2014, 02:31:48 pm: I'm with odd 1 I think it would be for the better but we have tried that road and hit the wall , why we don, t know
Title: Re: pre78 sidecars..Port Augusta Australian Championships.
Post by: robcan on July 16, 2014, 06:01:32 pm: Bikes changed a fair bit Pre 85 twinshock heavy frame heavy motor Pre 90 lite weight mono shock.Pre75 suspension changes a bit say from a 75 wasp to a 78 wasp
Title: Re: pre78 sidecars..Port Augusta Australian Championships.
Post by: KTM47 on July 16, 2014, 06:31:25 pm: Quote from: lama on July 16, 2014, 02:31:48 pm
I'm with odd 1 I think it would be for the better but we have tried that road and hit the wall , why we don, t know

Just keep sending the same proposal in each year and if you can get more clubs or individuals to send the same thing.

If at first you don't succeed Don't Give Up

Why not propose Pre 78 as a separate class and if entries aren't enough they are combined and scored as one.

There is no point it continuing the way it is now.
Title: Re: pre78 sidecars..Port Augusta Australian Championships.
Post by: lama on July 16, 2014, 08:21:11 pm: In Queensland it's not a problem as we only have pre 85 mine is the only pre 90 up here and rules are rules I can see a problem down south we don,t want to loose any classes ( if only we could make this place smaller :D) but at the end of the day it's all about fun and having a good time . Just a question is there a pre 90 title held if not when will it become a class in the national titles is there a time frame that has to be abided by :)
Title: Re: pre78 sidecars..Port Augusta Australian Championships.
Post by: lama on July 16, 2014, 08:30:40 pm: It's getting to the stage where it's going to be to expensive to race soon $170 to enter the conandale classic but hey I will be there just to have some fun :D :D
Title: Re: pre78 sidecars..Port Augusta Australian Championships.
Post by: VMX247 on July 17, 2014, 01:29:56 pm: OK....we have six pre75 at the moment, please copy and share flyer to get the start gates a tad fuller..cheers(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/flyerportaugusta_zps42ca9a72.jpg) (http://s146.photobucket.com/user/vmx247/media/flyerportaugusta_zps42ca9a72.jpg.html)
Title: Re: pre78 sidecars..Port Augusta Australian Championships.
Post by: Tim754 on July 17, 2014, 05:17:14 pm: Quote from: Wasp on July 16, 2014, 07:47:38 pm
Quote from: robcan on July 16, 2014, 06:01:32 pm
Bikes changed a fair bit Pre 85 twinshock heavy frame heavy motor Pre 90 lite weight mono shock.Pre75 suspension changes a bit say from a 75 wasp to a 78 wasp

100% Rob . Thats exactly how history is , but I was to scared to comment because of of all the plastic newcomers . But you never know, if we make a submission to MA ,history could be rewritten and all classes combined , after all they all have 3 wheels and bums on seats (licences ) that matter .

Agree with Rob and Walter too. Pre75 in VMX Sidecar is the correct cut off era. Likewise Pre68. Pre85 could (in my opinion) be stretched to Pre87 as that is when the FIM's rules changes instantly destroyed the big bore heavyweights from Championship racing, leaving the light weight small bores (Sub 700cc or so toys) to grab all the big cherries. Tim754
Title: Re: pre78 sidecars..Port Augusta Australian Championships.
Post by: EML on July 18, 2014, 09:43:42 am: I beg to differ Tim as my '76 RT15a Wasp is just outside the era (pre75) and is light years away from the pre85 stuff. I think the cut-off is actually the banana-arm brigade. When they came in the suspension travel lengthened a fair bit and you can actually JUMP them.
At my age I think it should be more aligned with an aggregate age. i.e. The age of the passengerx2( ;D) added to the age of the driver and the age of the outfit. That way a couple of old diggers can still score some points.
Title: Re: pre78 sidecars..Port Augusta Australian Championships.
Post by: Tim754 on July 18, 2014, 01:38:49 pm: Eml Don't the MoMs include and allow RT15's as pre75 spec follow on? Airbag rear no, fair enough, but twin shocks? If the frame is not allowed ,what are the reasons?
Title: Re: pre78 sidecars..Port Augusta Australian Championships.
Post by: 270YAM on July 18, 2014, 04:51:37 pm: There is a number Of reasons for and against the pre '75 cutoff date. If we move it from pre '75 to pre '78 then we include rear disc brakes (slight) increase in suspension travel and 'lean forward' rear shocks.
The reason the RT15's are allowed is because they are easily changed to Pre'75 specs and once that is done, they look the part and most are already fitted with pre '75 eligible engines.
On the other hand I agree that an RT15 is light years behind the likes of an '84 EML.
Whenever you include cutoff dates, no matter where the goalposts are set, usually the latest allowable model within that class is the best, especially with sidecars where there is 10 years between '75 and '85.
If we change it to pre '78, then the guy that owns a 1969 model looses out.
Title: Re: pre78 sidecars..Port Augusta Australian Championships.
Post by: shelpi on July 19, 2014, 11:54:12 am: Quote from: robcan on July 16, 2014, 06:01:32 pm
Bikes changed a fair bit Pre 85 twinshock heavy frame heavy motor Pre 90 lite weight mono shock.Pre75 suspension changes a bit say from a 75 wasp to a 78 wasp
ah what about Darren Williams Honda and all the other light weight mono shock chairs made upto and includeing 1984 ie Honda CR480's, RM465's, KX500's etc etc
ther were a vast choice of mono shock solo's to make ya HBS
Title: Re: pre78 sidecars..Port Augusta Australian Championships.
Post by: shelpi on July 19, 2014, 11:58:59 am: Quote from: Wasp on July 16, 2014, 07:47:38 pm
Quote from: robcan on July 16, 2014, 06:01:32 pm
Bikes changed a fair bit Pre 85 twinshock heavy frame heavy motor Pre 90 lite weight mono shock.Pre75 suspension changes a bit say from a 75 wasp to a 78 wasp

100% Rob . Thats exactly how history is , but I was to scared to comment because of of all the plastic newcomers . But you never know, if we make a submission to MA ,history could be rewritten and all classes combined , after all they all have 3 wheels and bums on seats (licences ) that matter .
you know its not 100% right You tell me the date when Darren Williams came out on his Light weight Mono shock and did the deed
Title: Re: pre78 sidecars..Port Augusta Australian Championships.
Post by: shelpi on July 19, 2014, 12:06:32 pm: We are putting together a Pre75 chair and hope it will be ready for the Nats, going a DT360 A donk and frame with a JSC made sidecar and leading link ;)
Title: Re: pre78 sidecars..Port Augusta Australian Championships.
Post by: shelpi on July 19, 2014, 12:22:19 pm: As me old mate would say every time before we went out Keep it up right and have fun! RIP Trev
Title: Re: pre78 sidecars..Port Augusta Australian Championships.
Post by: shelpi on July 19, 2014, 04:36:57 pm: It just seems like it, as Im over hearing peoples version of the truth and if Im correct the fist light weight biult by the Williams was a CR450 and I know there were RM465 HBS rigs as I was nearly going to build a replica of My Mate and work college from Kessner Suzuki and his brothers KX500 air cooled not to mention another mates TT600 so Just a bit over it when I hear NO MONO SHOCK and NO LIGHT WEIGHTS before 1984, I to do not want any arguments just the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth ;)
Title: Re: pre78 sidecars..Port Augusta Australian Championships.
Post by: odd1 on July 19, 2014, 06:16:30 pm: Good on you Shelpi.
Title: Re: pre78 sidecars..Port Augusta Australian Championships.
Post by: KTM47 on July 19, 2014, 06:34:05 pm: Quote from: shelpi on July 19, 2014, 04:36:57 pm
It just seems like it, as Im over hearing peoples version of the truth and if Im correct the fist light weight biult by the Williams was a CR450 and I know there were RM465 HMS rigs as I was nearly going to build a replica of My Mate and work college from Kessner Suzuki and his brothers KX500 air cooled not to mention another mates TT600 so Just a bit over it when I hear NO MONO SHOCK and NO LIGHT WEIGHTS before 1984, I to do not want any arguments just the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth ;)

There is a video around somewhere of the Australian MX Championships at Toowoomba in 1982. It is the telecast of the racing from a local TV station. Anyway Bob Johnson and Blair Shepard are commentating. The first race shown is a Sidecar Championship race. Anyway Geoff Udy is leading and I think he is on a RM465 sidecar. I even think there was two classes back then. Ring Geoff or EML will know.
Title: Re: pre78 sidecars..Port Augusta Australian Championships.
Post by: Tim754 on July 19, 2014, 07:54:53 pm: and "kosher" regarding modifications is a lot easier in Pre75 Sidecars than all other of the classic classes. Like are you allowed in other divisions to take your frame ,remove lots of various bits and bobs, cut, shut and re-rake the head stem to fit a vastly different front fork setup, have a disc brake, change wheel sizes, hubs and rims ...,move the fuel tank to a much lower center of gravity ( and run an electric fuel pump)** reset the length of your swingarm, fit an electric starter and legally use 1983 model Yamaha and 1978 Honda engines* Well yes in Pre75 Sidecar.

* Yamaha XS650 Twins all models and Honda CB750K7 series.
** Tank mod and pump not on pictured machine at present time.
Take a look and tell me my old shitter ain't a kosher pre75 :) ;) ;) ;)
(http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/ad360/tdee754/scc1.jpg) (http://s951.photobucket.com/user/tdee754/media/scc1.jpg.html)
Did I mention you can even have a rigid bar footpeg on one side ;) ;) ;) :D :D
Title: Re: pre78 sidecars..Port Augusta Australian Championships.
Post by: VMX247 on July 19, 2014, 07:58:05 pm: Tim if you enter that makes 7 :)

Entries close 4th August
Title: Re: pre78 sidecars..Port Augusta Australian Championships.
Post by: Tim754 on July 19, 2014, 08:06:49 pm: Bike OK me broken Alison, BUT and it is a big one health wise, 2015 I promised myself to get to the start line ,even if I just get lapped (Most likely!!) and chug the old 980cc dinosaur around. Never know I might squeeze in last place ;) Have to look for a sap with a death wish oops I mean a volunteer as a passenger.
Title: Re: pre78 sidecars..Port Augusta Australian Championships.
Post by: Tim754 on July 19, 2014, 09:13:41 pm: hoping to get the weekend off!!! :) visit my sister and watch to racing :D
Title: Re: pre78 sidecars..Port Augusta Australian Championships.
Post by: shelpi on July 20, 2014, 11:06:47 am: So now that we are back on track ;) any helpful hints on the DT360A MotoCross Sidecar build from you guru's, looking forward to your input
ie- shall we run a 21" front wheel
what gearing would you start with
leading link design and geometry
sidecar swing arm design

pics would be nice, speaking of pics luv ya 7504 Tim wish I never sold me roady
Title: Re: pre78 sidecars..Port Augusta Australian Championships.
Post by: shelpi on July 20, 2014, 11:44:22 am: Quote from: Wasp on July 20, 2014, 11:23:55 am
Peter you want a helpfull hint . Dont get angry with me now , read the rulebook . My interpretation of the rules ( and the spirit ) ,seek one of those creations from prior 84 you intend to build . Either buy it or create the 100%replica of it . Remember frame , swing arms , forks ,linkage , brakes MUST be identical of the creation you are cloning of .A) your replica will be more valuable B)it will save you lots of grieve and meaningless expense . Please dont shoot me now , you asked for advice . My list still stands : NO Sidecar manufacturer offered a linkage model until 1985 !!!!!!!
ya just cant help your self can you, I will ignore your over tones and will remain focused on the for mentioned build and have read the regs and still interested in positive input, for the DT360A You are always welcome to comment Wasp but just dont expect me to agree with you on eveything
Now where were we? oh yer whats the best way to put a DT360A motocross out fit together? all positive inputs welcome and look forward to achieving some team spirit ;)
Title: Re: pre78 sidecars..Port Augusta Australian Championships.
Post by: shelpi on July 20, 2014, 11:57:37 am: Quote from: Tim754 on July 19, 2014, 09:13:41 pm
hoping to get the weekend off!!! :) visit my sister and watch to racing :D
Look forward to seeing ya in the flesh :o ahh not in the flesh :-[ but in person aghh not in a person :P but face to face... any way you know what I mean ;)
Title: Re: pre78 sidecars..Port Augusta Australian Championships.
Post by: shelpi on July 20, 2014, 12:10:29 pm: Quote from: Wasp on July 20, 2014, 11:55:07 am
Peter , you dont have to agree with me , history and spirit are things you should agree with . If I was using a 360 engine , then my recommended way to go would be , using a pre 85 EML or Wasp frame , then it is kosher , will handle and will give joy .
Ah if I was using a DT360A engine then you would recommend a pre 75 eml or wasp frame? thats what you meant right ;)
cant offord it and dont know where one is, so will replicate one instead,
useing the DT360A frame so just received the tube and now is a good time to double check design and stuff, so any design features that will be of advantage that we may have missed will be humbley and gratiously taken on board
cheers ;)
Title: Re: pre78 sidecars..Port Augusta Australian Championships.
Post by: VMX60 on July 20, 2014, 01:02:09 pm: Think LEWIS still has this for sale Shelpi

« on: May 29, 2014, 10:50:26 PM »

I've got a Wasp sidecar for sale.Believed to be around 1974-75.Had been fitted with a 490 2 stroke engine but this has been removed.Bike is otherwise complete.Looks a bit untidy and will need a full rebuild but this is mainly cosmetic. Bike is located just out of Bendigo and inspection is recommended.Send me your email address and I'll forward photos.Bike is open to offers however I'm not desperate to sell .Any offers considered till the end of June.No ridiculously low offers considered.
lewis.
Title: Re: pre78 sidecars..Port Augusta Australian Championships.
Post by: shelpi on July 20, 2014, 01:49:03 pm: Quote from: VMX60 on July 20, 2014, 01:02:09 pm
Think LEWIS still has this for sale Shelpi

« on: May 29, 2014, 10:50:26 PM »

I've got a Wasp sidecar for sale.Believed to be around 1974-75.Had been fitted with a 490 2 stroke engine but this has been removed.Bike is otherwise complete.Looks a bit untidy and will need a full rebuild but this is mainly cosmetic. Bike is located just out of Bendigo and inspection is recommended.Send me your email address and I'll forward photos.Bike is open to offers however I'm not desperate to sell .Any offers considered till the end of June.No ridiculously low offers considered.
lewis.
yep remember that Lewis's for sale ;) itsa money thing sorry to say! will pm my email address but now have nearly everything for our build, so please dont be insulted by our offer and will havta prove itsa 1974 either way we have a full rebuild on our hands now its about cost VS's the best end result and thank you in advance for your help and will pass on the info to JSC and the like ;)
Title: Re: pre78 sidecars..Port Augusta Australian Championships.
Post by: Tim754 on July 22, 2014, 10:29:10 am: Shelp if you got the DT's frame cradle I have a pre75 Wasp universal sidecar frame hanging on yhe wall of my shed. My old RT360 HBS * outfit was that sort of make up and the sons won mant a day on it.

* My registered trade mark HBS (Home built special....) ;) or perhaps super or superior or just shit... ;D
Title: Re: pre78 sidecars..Port Augusta Australian Championships.
Post by: shelpi on July 24, 2014, 12:35:01 pm: Quote from: Tim754 on July 22, 2014, 10:29:10 am
Shelp if you got the DT's frame cradle I have a pre75 Wasp universal sidecar frame hanging on yhe wall of my shed. My old RT360 HBS * outfit was that sort of make up and the sons won mant a day on it.

* My registered trade mark HBS (Home built special....) ;) or perhaps super or superior or just shit... ;D
yer depends on how it turns out ;) we always hope for special, so can you hit me with a price and stuff please
Title: Re: pre78 sidecars..Port Augusta Australian Championships.
Post by: Tim754 on July 27, 2014, 05:40:49 pm: "Water 14 degrees"

Enough said...................... ::)
Title: Re: pre78 sidecars..Port Augusta Australian Championships.
Post by: VMX247 on July 30, 2014, 05:54:34 pm: Entry's close MIDNIGHT MONDAY
Title: Re: pre78 sidecars..Port Augusta Australian Championships.
Post by: EML on September 03, 2014, 04:02:10 pm: Did any sidecars make this event?
Title: Re: pre78 sidecars..Port Augusta Australian Championships.
Post by: Brian Watson on September 03, 2014, 04:29:31 pm: Nope..
Title: Re: pre78 sidecars..Port Augusta Australian Championships.
Post by: shelpi on September 05, 2014, 10:27:25 am: Quote from: Watto HVA 1 on September 03, 2014, 04:29:31 pm
Nope..
dumb arse here had a shut down :-[ and stuff
Title: Re: pre78 sidecars..Port Augusta Australian Championships.
Post by: EML on September 05, 2014, 10:28:55 am: Sounds like you woulda been on ya own anyways.
Title: Re: pre78 sidecars..Port Augusta Australian Championships.
Post by: shelpi on September 05, 2014, 10:34:28 am: Quote from: EML on September 05, 2014, 10:28:55 am
Sounds like you woulda been on ya own anyways.

yep by that stage it got to the point where I didnt bother to lend a bike and find a passenger, plus I needed the cash, had little to no precious time ;)