OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Competition => Topic started by: Graeme M on April 28, 2014, 06:20:39 pm
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I noticed some comment on the 2014 PC thread about the question of speed of competitors, and also problems with lappers.
My view is that as the classes in 'VMX' change to include later classes and younger riders, we have a big disparity in outright speed. Mix that in with more modern tracks and the risk level increases.
So, how do we deal with that? And what other problems can this change in the demographic and performance bring? What are your thoughts around that?
I reckon more attention to this at riders briefing, and maybe the passing flag idea.
Over to you.
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Not knowing that they made double jumps at Towoomba ( why for F*ucks sake ) Passing or lapping in doubles is dangerous at best. Dont use tracks with large blind jumps for the Nats would be one answer.
I really thought the whole point of having it at Towoomba was it was one of the last great NATURAL tracks left. As I dont know the details I should not comment further.
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(http://expressway.paulrands.com/oldsite/photogallery/signs/general/regulatory/images/keepleftunlessovertaking.jpg)
The flag idea sounds like a good one and it is working for other sporting bodies.
if different class riders are participating in the one race (to make the numbers) then it should be emphasised to watch for the blue flag and ride accordingly. this should work for the guys at the pointy end and the guys who just want to circulate. yes someone will miss a faster rider behind them but hell, this isn't a cotton wool sport and all riders need to be able to handle a situation if and when it arises. don't forget to have fun and finish the day with a smile.
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I thought 'doubles' were even banned in modern mx, should NEVER be at vintage event !!! We just had a kid get hurt at Broadford on the weekend attempting a double, it'll be gone for our next ride day.
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Not knowing that they made double jumps at Towoomba ( why for F*ucks sake ) Passing or lapping in doubles is dangerous at best. Dont use tracks with large blind jumps for the Nats would be one answer.
I really thought the whole point of having it at Towoomba was it was one of the last great NATURAL tracks left. As I dont know the details I should not comment further.
That's exactly the question we were asking.. Why?
The week before the race 2 uphill doubles were added and despite complaints from some of us they were left in.
Less than half the competitors could clear one of them and the landing was extremely harsh when you had a crack and came up short! It was heart in mouth every lap on an Evo bike or any 125.
If you were running up the pointy end you HAD to have a crack every lap or you'd be passed.
At the end of the day the majority of us are old guys doing this for fun..
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The week before the race 2 uphill doubles were added
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That's forking crazy,what did they think it was a round of the MX Nationals :o
On the subject of lappers I would like to think that if two riders were battling for the lead & come up against a lapper on a tricky section of the track they would back off a bit & hold there positions till safely past then go no holds barred, but then racers will be racers ;)
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The Echo Valley track has a lot of history, but is a thoroughly modern track.
If the Classic Nats had been run there, on that track, there would have been lynchings. But I thought half the point of seperating the Pre-78 and the Evo+ Nationals was that the later era event could afford to be less fussy about their choice of tracks.
FWIW (before anyone gets wound up), Toowoomba as it was presented on the weekend:
1. There was only one "double jump", and it was tiny (between the first and second corners). Really it was a pair of whoops that 95% of riders could clear every lap, and never seemed to cause anyone any hassles.
2. There were three step-up jumps, which at least two of them could be cleared by a good rider on an Evo125. I'd guess that about half the field were clearing them most of the time. The third was a non-event - failure to clear it, it did nothing worse than slow your entry to the next corner.
There was a fourth set that was bypassed for this event.
3. There was a set of four rollers (open whoops).
4. There were five table top jumps. I saw all of them cleared at various times, but very few riders could clear them all, consistently.
I'd say that about half the field weren't clearing any of them.
All of the tops were smooth and even.
5. There were four single jumps. Three of these were completely unremarkable.
The fourth was sort of like a double jump in that it had a bit of a gap behind it. I don't believe it qualifies for the MA definition of a "double jump".
Most people could clear it as a double without any drama.
There were two or three riders who could jump to the far lump, and turn it into a triple jump, but it was entirely optional...
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That's exactly the question we were asking.. Why?
The week before the race 2 uphill doubles were added and despite complaints from some of us they were left in.
Less than half the competitors could clear one of them and the landing was extremely harsh when you had a crack and came up short! It was heart in mouth every lap on an Evo bike or any 125.
If you were running up the pointy end you HAD to have a crack every lap or you'd be passed.
At the end of the day the majority of us are old guys doing this for fun..
Again I want to say I had a ball and state the event was one of the best VMX events I have ever attended. Like most, I was challenged by the track however I have to agree with John here 100% .. the 2 sets of doubles were just ridiculously difficult for any of the 125's, most evo bikes and about 70% of the riders. The first time I cleared the first uphill one on my 89 CR 250, I could hear my own "yahoo" on my Go Pro. I'm sure the Marshalls and any spectators close enough heard it as well. Why? because the time before I nose dived into it and the time before that I almost flipped it trying to reach it. I was watching how others were clearing it during pre 85 125 class when the leader Derrick Redding flipped it himself and put himself out for the rest of the weekend .. exactly as I almost did. The thing was, if you cleared it, you would be 5 seconds a lap faster (feels like an eternity) so there was just no way you couldn't have a crack at it .... well that's how I think anyway. I noted many just rolled it and didn't try so maybe it was just me.
I never cleared the second uphill one (after the matterhorn downhill) on any of my bikes ... not for lack of trying and it genuinely scares me watching my footage to see how hard I was bottoming out. And I also had the (dis)pleasure to see Deaks crash on that jump during Saturdays practice ... and still be laying on the track when I came around again the next lap!!!
My 2 cents .. be interested to hear others thoughts
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The Echo Valley track has a lot of history, but is a thoroughly modern track.
If the Classic Nats had been run there, on that track, there would have been lynchings. But I thought half the point of seperating the Pre-78 and the Evo+ Nationals was that the later era event could afford to be less fussy about their choice of tracks.
Nathan, the QVMX club ran a club round on the Toowoomba track in Sept of last year. At that event I rode my pre 75 CZ400. Yes the track was challenging as it was constructed on that day but at no time did I ever feel the track was dangerous for the class of bike I was riding. And at no time during that meeting did I (or other competitors as far as I know) damage a bike attempting to clear double jumps because they weren't there. Unfortunately that was not the case this time.
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I noticed some comment on the 2014 PC thread about the question of speed of competitors, and also problems with lappers.
My view is that as the classes in 'VMX' change to include later classes and younger riders, we have a big disparity in outright speed. Mix that in with more modern tracks and the risk level increases.
So, how do we deal with that? And what other problems can this change in the demographic and performance bring? What are your thoughts around that?
Age races??
lets face it, one day a Rooster, next day a feather duster ::) and don't think it wont come for a sixteen year old, all he or she will need to do for qualification is live long enough, good luck, I have known a lot who haven't.
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2. There were three step-up jumps, which at least two of them could be cleared by a good rider on an Evo125. I'd guess that about half the field were clearing them most of the time. The third was a non-event - failure to clear it, it did nothing worse than slow your entry to the next corner.
There was a fourth set that was bypassed for this event.
Step ups/doubles.. call them what you will.
The first 2 were added the week before the event and the 4th is a new section still under construction.
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We race on motocross tracks not single track enduro loops. The fast guys can pass with ease and if they follow the lines of a slow guy and simply yell at them to move then they are both fast and stupid....or is that stupidly fast :o
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I raced this track during the 80's and early 90's it was always one of the best tracks I have ever raced.
I have to add just from frustration why would you F*ck with such a great track that everyone loved to race at.
90% was natural and the other bits just needed a touch. If someone told me that the local who control it are run by mini bike parents I would not be shocked as they are normally the only ones this stupid
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I raced this track during the 80's and early 90's it was always one of the best tracks I have ever raced.
I have to add just from frustration why would you F*ck with such a great track that everyone loved to race at.
90% was natural and the other bits just needed a touch. If someone told me that the local who control it are run by mini bike parents I would not be shocked as they are normally the only ones this stupid
You hit the nail on the head..
I've raced Echo Valley in the 70's 80's 90's 2000's and 2010's and its changed a LOT in recent years..!
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My mate Derrick Redding leading the first pre 85 125 race when he misjudged the first uphill step up
This put him out for the rest of the weekend..
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc374/JohnnyO31/imagejpg1_zps2c795850.jpg) (http://s1208.photobucket.com/user/JohnnyO31/media/imagejpg1_zps2c795850.jpg.html)
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unfortunate but could we have a caption contest for the guy next to him??
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My mate Derrick Redding leading the first pre 85 125 race when he misjudged the first uphill step up
This put him out for the rest of the weekend..
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc374/JohnnyO31/imagejpg1_zps2c795850.jpg) (http://s1208.photobucket.com/user/JohnnyO31/media/imagejpg1_zps2c795850.jpg.html)
Thanks John, I've edited my post above to have the right rider. Is Derrick okay?
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Step ups/doubles.. call them what you will.
The first 2 were added the week before the event and the 4th is a new section still under construction.
Fair enough. I made the distinction because (AFAIK) man-made doubles are not OK for outdoor MX, but step-ups are OK.
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Please, let's keep things respectful. This isn't meant to be any sort of witch hunt - it's about suggesting ways to better manage the risks in running these events. That's if the risks are more significant now than they were. I think whoever said it earlier hit the nail on the head - this is mostly about older guys having a good time. But that said, it IS an Aussie title, so it IS gonna be on the line to some extent.
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My two bobs worth, those 2 step ups made it a challenge for some of us that entered after having ridden both the meeting last year and the practice recently. I had a few goes at them but after casing badly thought the better of it and rolled them for the rest of the meeting. That fully stuffed both my rhythm and lap times. I finished up lending my evo bike to another rider who could manage them and rolled around on my backup pre 78. While I don't kid myself that I could have taken any silverware home, these things discourage some of us from entering these meetings and will only hurt the sport in the long run.
I did enjoy the meeting anyway and was cool to watch the guns on the " moderns" shredding the place up.
Congrats to all the new title holders, you sure earn't those medals.
Tony 922
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My mate Derrick Redding leading the first pre 85 125 race when he misjudged the first uphill step up
This put him out for the rest of the weekend..
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc374/JohnnyO31/imagejpg1_zps2c795850.jpg) (http://s1208.photobucket.com/user/JohnnyO31/media/imagejpg1_zps2c795850.jpg.html)
Thanks John, I've edited my post above to have the right rider. Is Derrick okay?
Yes Simo he's ok, just a damaged thumb and ego..
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Thanks John, I've edited my post above to have the right rider. Is Derrick okay?
Yes Simo he's ok, just a damaged thumb and ego..
Okay good to hear :)
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My 2 cents.....The passing flag suggestion makes sense, it is widely used in all forms of Motorsport, why not ours?
I think vintage racing and technically challenging tracks are mutually exclusive and directly influence approaches to riding styles and bike / body preservation. The two subjects are linked and accommodating these conflicting considerations does need a solution.
Looking at the Sup Regs for the nationals, there appears to be a provision that if tweaked could work for all....
It currently reads:
18. GRID POSITIONS:
Timed qualifying will be utilised. The top 40 fastest lap times will be placed in the point scoring Championship events. The balance of competitors will be placed in the consolation events. Practice will be 2 laps; a green flag will be displayed at the completion of those two laps, qualifying will then commence for a period of 10 minutes.
With some design, the "fastest 40" could be replaced with "within 25 seconds of the fastest time".
With a consolidated class made up of those outside the nominated qualifying time.....
Or ..... Just make the races 4 laps..... ;)
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The real issue is that VMX is the only sport I know of that embraces (and needs) punters at its national level.
Do we keep the Nationals "pure" for the genuine contenders, or do we tweak them to suit the punters?
If so, how?
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The real issue is that VMX is the only sport I know of that embraces (and needs) punters at its national level.
Do we keep the Nationals "pure" for the genuine contenders, or do we tweak them to suit the punters?
If so, how?
Why does anything need to be changed at all?
More people had difficulty with the track than lapped riders...
I think a bigger issue would be to have someone switched on to inspect tracks used for state and national titles before the event and guide the track curator to how it needs to be prepped to suit vmx bikes
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I think that's a solid point, but what would suit a "VMX bike"? When the Post Classic titles could embrace me on a 1979 YZ125F and someone of the calibre of a James Deakin on an 89 CR500?
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It's VMX we forget the great range of ages and abilities. Our National Championships are great, with very few succeeding and recieving silberware, no sponsorship, no dollars, no contract to ride. Just damn good fun. I will never win a championship and I will probably get lapped. But it's getting out there and just damn well enjoying it all on and off the track. I think we are forgetting why we're involved VMX, for the fun of rebuilding, barn finds, the bench racing and the damn great time we have with like minded people.
Start worrying about lapped people and you won't have a National championship, because very few will qualify, there goes the spectacle. Just my opinion, no offence meant
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It's VMX we forget the great range of ages and abilities. Our National Championships are great, with very few succeeding and recieving silberware, no sponsorship, no dollars, no contract to ride. Just damn good fun. I will never win a championship and I will probably get lapped. But it's getting out there and just damn well enjoying it all on and off the track. I think we are forgetting why we're involved VMX, for the fun of rebuilding, barn finds, the bench racing and the damn great time we have with like minded people.
Start worrying about lapped people and you won't have a National championship, because very few will qualify, there goes the spectacle. Just my opinion, no offence meant
Excellent post 8) cheers
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Today's tracks seem to be modeled on US supercross tracks even at the lowest club level. I think because every parent thinks their kid is the next Chad Reed and they seem to run clubs these days. I've always said that tracks should be built for for C graders at club level, to encourage not discourage. Fast guys will be fast on any track but to add obstacles that only the best can do just makes the gap between riders all the more obvious. Table tops & ski jumps are all that are required at any club level track. There are plenty of ride parks with obstacles to practice on for the big leaguers. I wasn't there but sounds like only the younger "ring ins" had any real chance at the Nationals which is a shame IMO. I am a fat old bald grumpy cu*t though.
K
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Today's tracks seem to be modeled on US supercross tracks even at the lowest club level. I think because every parent thinks their kid is the next Chad Reed and they seem to run clubs these days.
I'd never seen Echo Valley before the weekend, but that's the vibe I got from the place.
This seems particularly likely if they added two step-ups a week before our event.
The Canberra Club wet down this path a few years ago, and it decimated the club.
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I believe this might be more a one off problem because of the track design at this years nats. One thing I did notice was the difference in lap times between Peter Horwood and Brad van these guys are normally very close in lap times but at this meeting Peter who is a fearless jumper was 10 sec faster.
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FWIW, I also heard from a very good source that the Matterhorn has not been in use for ~ 2 years but was only added for the PCVMX Nats by special request??? The track path has been straight across to the downhill as per the path used by the sidecars :-\
The Matterhorn as it was in late 80's I see no dangerous jump in this photo
(http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q747/Slakewell1/8212010092_zpsd59fbe51.jpg)
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You're being too sensitive, John.
It was a big meeting and was the first of its type - the two clubs did a great job overall, and it ran very well. I had a great weekend and am very happy to have been a part of it.
But if anyone said it was a perfect meeting, they'd be kidding themselves.
This discussion is not about sticking the knife into either QVMX or the Toowwomba club. Its about working out exactly what was good and what could be improved.
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FWIW, I also heard from a very good source that the Matterhorn has not been in use for ~ 2 years but was only added for the PCVMX Nats by special request??? The track path has been straight across to the downhill as per the path used by the sidecars :-\
The Matterhorn as it was in late 80's I see no dangerous jump in this photo
(http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q747/Slakewell1/8212010092_zpsd59fbe51.jpg)
OK lets get the facts straight. This photo is not the Mattahorn. The next steep uphill is the Mattahorn. This photo is what is called "Skyline". The club has not been using the Mattahorn because it is high maintenance. Getting up the Mattahorn was not that hard.
Please also note!!!!!! In the early 80s there was a canyon jump at Echo Valley.
As for lappers, if they hold their line the faster riders can pass them without a problem. The track is at least 7 metres wide.
Also any suggestion of qualifying from State Championships is a joke. How many States have proper State Championships for EVO, Pre 85 & Pre 90 and if it is the top five from those States how many riders is that?
Instead of trying to pull this Championship apart, how about being positive and working out who is going to run next year's.
The way I see it is up to Viper or Heaven. I will support it, but whoever runs it start planning now and everyone be positive.
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The real issue is that VMX is the only sport I know of that embraces (and needs) punters at its national level.
Do we keep the Nationals "pure" for the genuine contenders, or do we tweak them to suit the punters?
If so, how?
Why does anything need to be changed at all?
More people had difficulty with the track than lapped riders...
I think a bigger issue would be to have someone switched on to inspect tracks used for state and national titles before the event and guide the track curator to how it needs to be prepped to suit vmx bikes
This sequence area few of many great photos taken by Perry Scott (and harvested from his FB album) - a great sequence of an unfortunate event. I make no judgement of either rider - at various times, I have gone close to being in the same position as both riders here.
Maybe it's a real problem, or maybe it's just something that comes with the territory. But if we don't think and talk about it, then we'll never know.
It ended the day's racing, and one rider's weekend.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1.0-9/1505057_10154062391975626_4355170056127225854_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9/10270785_10154062392185626_4392833153474604941_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1.0-9/1511418_10154062392520626_1251725647957923258_n.jpg)
(https://scontent-b-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1.0-9/10174887_10154062392735626_3706139226806138450_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9/10006916_10154062392830626_4442975842884091461_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9/10313393_10154062392960626_4255042388704842946_n.jpg)
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That accident was not the tracks fault....that was 2 riders farking up.
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Davey Crocket call me a soft c#%k all you like but I rode 9 races and won 2 titles as you know but I didn't like the 2 new step ups and neither did plenty of other people i spoke to. I loved the track 3 weeks ago and it didnt need to be changed.
I had yesterday off work because my back and neck were so sore from coming up short on the 2nd step up and obviously I'm not the only one!
At 53 I don't need to be taking un necessary risks on a vintage bike where I could end up injured..
Davey and Robo I've brought up issues about tracks before but no one seems interested in listening.. At least on social media people take notice!
I'll gladly help on track design and safety but am not in a position to take time off work..
You guys ran a fantastic event and we applaud you for that so don't take my criticism the wrong way!!
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You're being too sensitive, John.
It was a big meeting and was the first of its type - the two clubs did a great job overall, and it ran very well. I had a great weekend and am very happy to have been a part of it.
But if anyone said it was a perfect meeting, they'd be kidding themselves.
This discussion is not about sticking the knife into either QVMX or the Toowwomba club. Its about working out exactly what was good and what could be improved.
Absolutely spot on Nathan. It's all about debriefing and how to make it better so we see it continue into the future.
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You're being too sensitive, John.
It was a big meeting and was the first of its type - the two clubs did a great job overall, and it ran very well. I had a great weekend and am very happy to have been a part of it.
But if anyone said it was a perfect meeting, they'd be kidding themselves.
This discussion is not about sticking the knife into either QVMX or the Toowwomba club. Its about working out exactly what was good and what could be improved.
Absolutely spot on Nathan. It's all about debriefing and how to make it better so we see it continue into the future.
Agreed
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OK, I'll get off the fence now.
Positives:
The event ran very smoothly all weekend, with absolutely minimal delays.
1. QVMX clearly understands how VMX works and came up with a good, workable programme within MA's structure.
2. All of the officials seemed pleasant and helpful.
3. The venue was fantastic, with plenty of room for camping and pit areas. Clean, non-stinky toilets and hot showers were greatly appreciated.
4. The track was good - the prep was excellent, considering the external factors that restricted the ability to water it on Saturday night.
5. The programme was clear and easy to follow for riders and spectators alike.
6. Having commentary was good, including the little history bits between races.
Things that stopped the meeting being perfect:
7. MA's structure needs work (age racing for Evo only is dumb).
8. The track was a bit too much for the target market. Not "OMG, this is stupid", but it definitely would have made more riders happier if it had been toned down a bit.
9. A timetable in the programme would have been a huge help.
10. Some aspects of scrutiny were a bit wobbly. The "all your riding gear" rule was a bit odd, and other bits were enforced inconsistently - there were three bikes that weren't quite carry-over models but only one of them was knocked back...
#7 is obviously out of the organisers' control, so they actually deserve credit rather than criticism for the way they made it work.
#9 is no biggie - just a small irritiation.
#10 wasn't a drama, although it was probably fortunate that the two bikes that weren't right, were backmarkers. The sport of VMX desperately needs some leadership from MA/the commission on this topic - we need a much clearer line in the sand about what is acceptable and what isn't.
That leaves #9 as the main point of discussion, IMHO.
Simo63 and KJS222 have almost perfectly summed up my opinion. The track was good, but could have been brilliant with only a few tweaks.
I'd also offer as a comment (not a negative or a positive) that the Matterhorn adds nothing to the track. It's basically a gimmick IMHO - no real opportunity for passing, and its neither particularly interesting or fun.
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That accident was not the tracks fault....that was 2 riders farking up.
I put that up because it demonstrated that the difference in rider speed can be a real issue.
That wasn't related to the track.
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Haven't had time to read all this but I might dare to suggest that the up hill "double" headed to the top of the track was added to slow some riders before the big down hill section.
For the sidecars this was a real bugger as it slowed our pace up the hardest haul on the circuit and made us all look shit.
The only team to clear it was our leading outfit of Jamie McMurdo and Wayne Hollaway, it did Waynes knee in and put them out of the whole week-end....so no more bitching....BITCHES.
THE TRACK WAS FANTASTIC as was the whole weekend.
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That accident was not the tracks fault....that was 2 riders farking up.
Sorry John this accident was only one riders fault. Clearly No 32 had got a bad start or something. He came past me very close to me and was then just in front of me. Derek did not do anything wrong. The other rider ran into the back of him.
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Hopefully people will take a step back and think a little before posting. I said earlier this is not about throwing insults or petty criticism. As far as I can see as someone who wasn't there, the clubs involved did a great job and the event went very well.
The things that do seem to stand out is the actual style of track, and the difference in rider speed/ability. Now, these are matters of broader import than just Echo Valley or the 2014 PC titles.
I think from what's been said, the best approach to the difference in skills/speed is to ensure marshalls are properly briefed, that riders understand their responsibility (after all, if you are slow, you know you are slow), and perhaps the blue flag idea.
As far as tracks go, I do think that mixing the desires of 30 year olds on Pre 90 bikes with 50 year olds on 1980 model bikes is a bit tricky. The best answer here is to back off the degree of difficulty as it means a broader spread of riders will be happy. After all, it is vintage racing so we need to encourage as many riders as possible. Tracks do NOT need to be modern in design so that we have something as challenging as a modern MX Nats round or similar.
I accept it's the Aussie Championships, but really, it's not THE championships. It's a niche fringe to a somewhat fringe sport. Far better to focus on the needs of the majority. The fast guys will still win, but the average Joe will be much happy and vote with his feet and wallet next time.
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Now, bear in mind this thread was started to discuss some of the issues raised earlier on a more general level. It is NOT meant to be about the 2014 PC titles themselves. So, let's keep the discussion at that level, if any more discussion is needed.
I am also gonna go back through the thread and delete the more ummm... 'inappropriate' posts. That is according to my take on what I reckon is inappropriate, so if it's your post I delete don't complain to me please. I moderate as I think is best.
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That accident was not the tracks fault....that was 2 riders farking up.
Sorry John this accident was only one riders fault. Clearly No 32 had got a bad start or something. He came past me very close to me and was then just in front of me. Derek did not do anything wrong. The other rider ran into the back of him.
From #32's point of view, #E50 was going straight when he committed to the jump, but then #E50 moved over and bad things happened.
From #E50's point of view, he was maintaining his line, but then #32 almost landed on top of him and bad things happened.
Like I said earlier, I've been in both positions at different times, and I understand how it can happen. It's neither riders' fault - it's the outcome of riders with widely differing speeds racing in the same race.
If we do nothing then its inevitable that it will happen again and again, possibly with a worse outcome.
If we talk about it, then we might come up with a way of stopping it happening. If we don't, then we're no worse off than we are now.
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Both of us riders that came up from Vic to the event both thought the track and event was fantastic and well run.
I think most riders rode to their ability and the track style which I thought was suited to post classic style bikes.
I'm sure most riders would have preped their bikes accordingly?
Everyone who ran the event were easygoing and helpful. I even got a "great ride out there mate" from one of the flaggies! Pretty much made my day :D.
I didn't think any of the jumps were too outa place you either attempted them or not.
Even when you didn't, you just bottomed out. People made their own choices whether it was worth doing or not.
The Matterhorn made it a little more interesting I thought. Even thought I did drop it on the uphill and got passed by the pack :o
The only slight complaint that I could see was there was no timetable and the frame/engine number/ riding gear check was a bit tedious.
I look forward to having a go next year ;)
Thanks to everyone who made the event the hit it was!
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From the Qvmx committee it was a pleasure to meet a lot of new faces last weekend. The debate about fast and slow riders will never go away, it's in any sport and people just have to adapt to the conditions on the day. On behalf of the Qvmx committee we would like to take this opportunity to thank all those who participated and assisted in this great event .
Brian Fox
Qvmx secretary
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Flip side if the coin.....perhaps the Toowoomba members wanted the new jumps and thats the only time the voulenteer machine operator could do the work.
Voulenteers are a rare breed now days.
10/10 to all involved. 8)
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Would be a good idea to adopt the motorsport standard of waving a blue flag when leaders are approaching lapped riders.
This would also help to keep the flaggies involved more...instead of them dozing off or star gazing or worse still...nose picking, as I've seen a few doing. If they were to watch what was happening during the race they would be able to alert riders that they are about to be passed.
Cudos to those that made the effort to ride the track voted one of the best in the WORLD by the recent Mr Motocross re-union dinner riders.
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A viewpoint from the lower end of the foodchain.
I scoped the track Friday and again Sat morning, and decided to withdraw. I felt I could "get around" ok but not "race" with my level of fitness and skill. I was very aware of the possibility of being landed on when being lapped and rolling the big jumps with consequences to myself and others. The decision while difficult (I have never withdrawn because of track conditions before in 50 years) was easy once I asked myself would I have fun. No other reason for me to ride.
I then had a great weekend watching the likes of James Deacon and other aces do their stuff without the distraction of competing myself. In spite of admiring the skill of these guns, my heroes are the likes of Brad 090, John Kittle, Carl Bletcher, John Kemp and many others who are approaching or over 50 (Carl is 61) who are not only very fast but ride regularly and support their clubs.
Particularly in the light of me chickening out, hats off to the older girls (sorry) Lisa, Peta, Kerry and Helen who battled around all weekend.
We have Queensland Classic and Post Classic Championships at Harrisville, 14/15 June with a very different track to Echo Valley. Not saying better (or worse), but much more vintage friendly yet fun for the aces.
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That accident was not the tracks fault....that was 2 riders farking up.
Sorry John this accident was only one riders fault. Clearly No 32 had got a bad start or something. He came past me very close to me and was then just in front of me. Derek did not do anything wrong. The other rider ran into the back of him.
Kev, you have got to be joking. Yeah sure #32 ran into him. What else could he do. The other guy was riding at 45 degrees across the downhill ramp.
And as for your bad start assumption. #32 had just finished the previous race and was trying to start his bike to enter the next race. The commentator even called it " #32 Harris is trying to start his bike, looks like he has got it going now and will be joining the grid " At that point the gate dropped and Harris was nowhere near the gates. He had to ride into the gating area and take off, giving the entire field more than the full length of the straight head start.
#32 qualified third fastest, came sixth in the first moto and easily won the over 50 Evo over 263. He, as you can see by his results is a very quick, competent rider. Not some gung ho wobbler as you portray. Given the fact that he caught youse in half a lap is testament to his ability.
We are becomming accustomed to this sort of bias reporting. A few of us attended the Classic Nats, also in Qld last year and could not believe the totally bias commentary that went on. Even to the point of a certain interstate rider donkey licking the entire field in the first two motos and not even getting a mention in the chances for the third moto win, which he very easily did. We hoped that the commentary would be less bias this time. This time comments like " He only got around the local boy for the win because local boys rear brake failed " Another race, two interstaters are running first and second the commentary is on local boy third and local boy fourth, way behind first and second and then start talking about sidecars when the result is inevitable. The totally bias commentary even made the Qlders around us blush.
This meeting was another very well run meeting by the by the best in the business. Congratulations to all involved.
BTW #32 will most likely be off work for months with multiple broken bones in his foot and leg, a torn knee and a fukd bike......not that you will care Kev.
Pity you didn't show the same form out on the track that you did on Friday arvo ripping through the pits at warp speed on your Maico throwing rocks and dust everywhere. Maybe #32 wouldn't have been able to ride so close to you on the track then
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A viewpoint from the lower end of the foodchain.
I scoped the track Friday and again Sat morning, and decided to withdraw. I felt I could "get around" ok but not "race" with my level of fitness and skill. I was very aware of the possibility of being landed on when being lapped and rolling the big jumps with consequences to myself and others. The decision while difficult (I have never withdrawn because of track conditions before in 50 years) was easy once I asked myself would I have fun. No other reason for me to ride.
I then had a great weekend watching the likes of James Deacon and other aces do their stuff without the distraction of competing myself. In spite of admiring the skill of these guns, my heroes are the likes of Brad 090, John Kittle, Carl Bletcher, John Kemp and many others who are approaching or over 50 (Carl is 61) who are not only very fast but ride regularly and support their clubs.
Particularly in the light of me chickening out, hats off to the older girls (sorry) Lisa, Peta, Kerry and Helen who battled around all weekend.
We have Queensland Classic and Post Classic Championships at Harrisville, 14/15 June with a very different track to Echo Valley. Not saying better (or worse), but much more vintage friendly yet fun for the aces.
A very prudent & wise decision made on your behalf sir & dip my hat to you for such a difficult choice to make. But you & your cherished machinary are still here in one piece to tell your story & play again another day, so well done to you :-)))
Not so much of an easy call though if you had driven all the way from WA, SA, Vic or Tas to be confronted with such a dilema???
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Graeme - your niche fringe comment is spot on and well put.
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Yes the point re entrants who've travelled a long way is valid. We who organise these events need to bear that in mind.
I agree the blue flag has merit, and we may adopt it for the Qld Titles,but I dont think big doubles and step ups are appropriate for vintage. If we dont cater for the average punters we risk losing them.
A very rough guestimate is the "average" riders contribuited over $12,000 in entries, without which these events wouldn't be viable. We all love to see the big guns do their thing, but it is the ordinary club rider who make these events possible.
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I always feel that when you speak Col. all should Listen
Noel
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The flaggies job is to watch riders travelling away from them. They are responsible for their sector between their station and the next. They have no time nor should they be watching racing coming toward them from 2,3, 4 or more corners away.
Blue flags (done properly) require a second flaggie, or at least a few dedicated ones placed around the course in crucial spots.
It may be possible with a concerted effort to make this happen at one particular event, but each and every event held?? NAICCIH.
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NAICCIH.
too true. stumped on this one Barra :)
http://indyhiphop.com/63511/texting-what-the-heck-do-all-of-those-symbols-mean/
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Please let's keep on topic. Again, I don't want people slagging off at particular people or matters relating to the PC titles. This is meant to be about managing potential problems that became apparent and which may arise at future meetings.
Barra, the idea to use blue flags is not aimed at typical club days, these are usually well managed as they are. But at the titles, you end up with a much wider cross section of skills and ability plus a greater level of aggression.
My main point, and it may be that I am wrong given I am not involved, is that Pre 90 and Pre 85 racing is not 'vintage' the way it was originally formed. When you can get a largely modern track with very fast riders on bikes with plenty of travel and reasonably sophisticated suspension and handling, you have a very different playing field to that which was found at say the '93 Vintage Nats.
I believe that as we make the PC titles more and more professional and attract more serious entrants, we raise the bar for on-track performance. And blokes like me are out in the cold, because no way would I risk my life, and that of others, by wobbling around in those conditions.
It's all very well to say if a bloke pays his money it's his right to ride, but geeze, where do you draw the line on that. There is enormous scope for problems in that mix.
I'm not pointing the finger at QVMX or Toowoomba MXC. I'm pointing the finger at something I think needs to be discussed for future promoters to consider.
A natural terrain track is a way better option. But if you can't have that, and the good guys want a proper modern style track (and after all, tracks were pretty gnarly in the mid to late 80s), then how do you manage the risk?
Or do we just accept the risk because it's a tough sport?
Regardless of risk, we also face the question of Joe Average losing interest. Clearly at least one rider abandoned the meeting for those reasons. Australia doesn't have the population for the titles to become a very small pond catering to a few fast guys.
Personally, and you can howl me down for this, I think the time for Vintage titles is over. Winning Championships is what you do when you are 20. Not 60. I think it would be better to stick to club series and big social events like CD and PBBB.
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I also agree with SuperSenior50, make it too serious with qualification levels and more than half won't turn up.
Maybe its time for each title meeting to be held every second year, Classic one year and Post Classic the next and alternate between MX and DT so that each discipline has one title meeting a year.
Dates and sup regs to be released twelve months in advance.
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The answer is.........Classic Dirt Track!!!!!!!........come on everyone, get that rear nobby changed and never look back!!!!!
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col is a legend
i will love to be racing when im 70^
got 17 years to go
my trophy cabinet is full from when i was a younger man
dont forget to have fun
vmx= fun wright it out 100 times
ftw al
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I wonder if age racing for all eras would reduce the speed difference between the fastest and slowest riders?
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no nathan
because it would be all in
scored separtely if small classes
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If all era bikes were allowed to participate in age racing, then there would be less combined classes.
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hey cemoto
come to north brisbane
classic dirt track is my passion
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Gee I'm a late runner into this topic. I must admit I don't frequent here as much any more.
I lapped a regular lady rider three or four times in pre 85 open. A little frustrating and scared at the time as she is going so slow and I would never forgive myself if I accidentally hit her. But I'm glad she entered and rode. If it wasn't for the slow riders we wouldn't have an event. Even in the AMA supercross they bitch and moan about lapped riders and the lapped riders are PRO LEVEL. We just have to suck it up. Just keep reminding them at riders briefing.
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Finally someone has solved the problem take the jumps & the ruts out & U have dirt track which sounds like it is what a lot of you guys want another solution is put the evo"s with the classics & make post classic pre 95 or pre 00 after all over the years mx tracks have evolved as the bikes have gotten better but in saying that these days most mx tracks are pretty bland compared to the 80s & 90s these days 65s can clear nearly all the jumps where back in the day there were doubles triples & quads I've even herd a story of Darren smart hitting a quad at Tivoli on a dr400 in the eighties at the end of the day everyone has there own opinion on track designs & layouts but keep in mind they are usually done by one or two people who volunteer there time for free & as time goes on a lot of old tracks are dissapeRing for one reason or another & as newer people come into clubs & tracks that haven't been there in the past to see what worked well & what didn't & most of the time it's not till a race day to see if things work
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That accident was not the tracks fault....that was 2 riders farking up.
Sorry John this accident was only one riders fault. Clearly No 32 had got a bad start or something. He came past me very close to me and was then just in front of me. Derek did not do anything wrong. The other rider ran into the back of him.
Kev, you have got to be joking. Yeah sure #32 ran into him. What else could he do. The other guy was riding at 45 degrees across the downhill ramp.
#32 qualified third fastest, came sixth in the first moto and easily won the over 50 Evo over 263. He, as you can see by his results is a very quick, competent rider. Not some gung ho wobbler as you portray. Given the fact that he caught youse in half a lap is testament to his ability.
This meeting was another very well run meeting by the by the best in the business. Congratulations to all involved.
BTW #32 will most likely be off work for months with multiple broken bones in his foot and leg, a torn knee and a fukd bike......not that you will care Kev.
Ok gentlemen... lets have a look from "E50" helmet camera. I think it speaks for itself....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-brgxgHSN4E
I as others viewed the still pics & may of thought E50 moved offline, but as clearly seen in his footage this isn't the case. Pics can be deceptive given the angle.... As it it's stated... IT'S THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE PASSING RIDER TO DO SO SAFELY.
Now all i can say is stop the BULLSHIT & get constructive & support events , get involved with running events & PUT up or SHUT THE F&*K UP!
As for the commit "BTW #32 will most likely be off work for months with multiple broken bones in his foot and leg, a torn knee and a fukd bike......not that you will care Kev.
Mate lets hope we never meet, EVERYONE is concerned about the well being of this competitor, to put in print such a flippant remark is both callous & inciting... both of which we can do without. Pull your head in mate otherwise someone will knock it off.
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NAICCIH.
too true. stumped on this one Barra :)
http://indyhiphop.com/63511/texting-what-the-heck-do-all-of-those-symbols-mean/
NAICCIH. Not an ice cubes chance in hell.
Interesting those defending 80's tracks having doubles etc. so that's how it should be in todays racing of that era?
Anyone who knows motocross knows that the Supercross phenomenon took over MX and club MX / tracks in the eighties - and nearly killed it. By the early nineties people were sick of crashing their brains out and left the sport.
It was wrong then, does that make it right now?
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has anyone done the demographics on the riders at the VMX Nats - total - including non age groups - by group? It is OK to say (and not passing comment on how right this is or isn't) the tracks are the same as was in the 80's - but what percentage of the riders AREN'T! How many fall into 30-40, 40-50, 50-60 etc. Some people still seem to forget this is VMX not the Modern Nats and a lot of us have a different opinion as to what the VMX Nats entails because of this.
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OK
I have to reply to some remarks made RE myself.
I was correct that something had happened that put Mark behind myself and Derek after the start. As I said Mark came past me and didn't give me a lot of room.
Ted you need a new protractor 45 degs really. Derek took a rut on the left hand side before the jump and then moved back towards a line to take the berm. Mark seeing him to the left hit the jump faster and then ran into the back of Derek. Derek did not change his line it is the line he had been taking every lap.
Also a blue flag would not have made any difference in this incident Derek was not being lapped.
As for me roll starting my Maico Thursday (not Friday), Friday was Anzac Day and no one started their bikes. I am having trouble with the ignition. It is a PVL and is approximately 10 years old. It doesn't spark from cold. I knew I was first practice on Saturday so I had to see if it would start Thursday. I asked John before I did anything and then stayed clear of everyone. I went up and down the hill (on the grass) several times to clear it out and make sure it would run correctly. I apologise if I sprayed anyone, I didn't think I did.
As for bias commentary I think you will find that, that is not restricted to our State. The local commentator knows more about the local rider.
After all we have to put up with it every year from Phil Gould.
As for what to do with the PC Championships. Yes Natural Terrain tracks would make it better, but they are not always available and are more expensive to run at.
Tracks without some of the more modern (freestyle/SX) jumps would be OK too. Unfortunately TWMBA MXC choose the fortnight before the Championships to change the track, they had machinery available and operators. Riders may also have noticed that there were other changes that weren't used.
As for the speed difference, riders just have to take that into consideration and maybe give more room. I can understand what was going through Mark's head, he had missed the start and was trying to make up ground as quickly as possible.
We are no longer 20 (or 30) years old and do not bounce like we did.
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A matter respect is needed to all that volunteer to run and organise any meet, of any size. We are but human and VMXers second, so if the track was no good or feel that your not catered for, go to a meeting and raise your concerns or enjoy the toils of others the best you can. the forum is a great place to move forward with positive attitudes and ideas, but I strongly disagree with the pages of personal bitchy-ness from grown men.
I didn't race or have any involvement and wont comment on anything other than the under current of lack of respect, whether right or wrong, of people who give their time to your sport.
the forum is not the place and it's not just about you.
cheers Trev
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Personally, and you can howl me down for this, I think the time for Vintage titles is over. Winning Championships is what you do when you are 20. Not 60. I think it would be better to stick to club series and big social events like CD and PBBB.
And there it is.
Breaking your body at 20 something is quite different to breaking your body when you get older. At 55 years of age, family and commitments I am not willing to take on risks a 20 something would. I was at a function not so long a go, sitting next to a former Victorian Enduro veteran, and he made it clear that racing and titles are for the young. We were talking about a 40 year old man with commitments who was killed racing club level MX. Should not have been racing. The mind may feel young, but the body is not.
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This is just my opinion, nothing more......
There will always be slow and fast riders on the track at any given event. Club days or National events. It's a fact of motorsport that all racers have to deal with. So are crashes. Most of the time crashes are the racers own fault, whether from a little too much courage or track conditions not being read ahead of time. Then there is the right hand controlling the brain syndrome which we all have been guilty of at one time or another. Agreed, most of the "bravery" came and went with our younger years.
It's got me beat how a National title can be held over a weekend. One bad start or a small mistake and that's it for your "title" chase. And I think this is where the risk taking comes from. A contender cannot afford to have 1 single mid pack finish within such a short race program without risking missing out on their dream. Some guys (and gals) work hard to make the dream happen and when a mistake happens, desperation and aggresive riding come into play. Hence the incident with rider #50 and #32. It was a racing incident that could happen on any track. It has happened to me when I attempted to pull off the track with my throttle jammed wide open. I put my leg out to indicate that I was getting off the track but the guy behind didn't see it. I didn't have time to raise my arm as I was trying to control the throttle and use the kill button. No biggie luckily. I went down and the other guy continued on. He came up to me in the pits to apologise and make sure I was ok. Then thanked me for giving him 2nd place......
Point is, I don't think anyone in VMX deliberately takes anyone out. Yes, things get a bit heated at the time but when it's all done and dusted, both parties usually understand that it wasn't intentional, shake hands and enjoy a coldie at the end of the day.
I believe there have been incidents at ride days like CD and BBB. Just goes to show that the "right hand controlling the brain syndrome" can happen anywhere.
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Its a National championship.......fastest guy wins.....End of story ...its racing not a parade......not trying to offend anybody and the track is the same for everyone.....up for you to negotiate.50 year old who rides modern vets and pre 90 back ......former Pro class modern in WA at 38yrs......racing is racing...just saying! ;-)
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but same again Richard - if you wish to set the Nats up for (especially in VMX) 5% of the racing population best of luck with your turn up.
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But everyone welcome to ride Rosco......you don't have to be fast or clear the doubles etc......its just the winner does! Simple all welcome......stop whingeing everyone !!!!!!
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But everyone welcome to ride Rosco......you don't have to be fast or clear the doubles etc......its just the winner does! Simple all welcome......stop whingeing everyone !!!!!!
Who is whinging Richo?? The event was bloody fantastic and in an effort to make it even better, people are giving constructive comments about how to improve the event and hopefully ensure the longevity of the nationals. Does that classify as whinging? I have 2 businesses and I love to hear good things about the product and the service people receive however if there are any complaints I really want to hear about them .. that way I can deal with what ever the issue is and improve the product and service. To do anything else is detrimental and akin to sticking my head up my arse.
This "man up and get on with it" bravado attitude some people have has resulted in some very bad outcomes in the past ... just look at some previous surf titles. I won't say any more on that but I hope you understand where I am coming from.
And one more thing ... you seem to be happy enough to throw in your opinion and discount everyone elses ... but were you even at the event and did you ride the track thus enabling you to give an informed opinion? If not then maybe you should listen a bit more to those that were and did. Simo63 .. VMX Gumby.
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Its a National championship.......fastest guy wins.....End of story ...its racing not a parade......not trying to offend anybody and the track is the same for everyone.....up for you to negotiate.50 year old who rides modern vets and pre 90 back ......former Pro class modern in WA at 38yrs......racing is racing...just saying! ;-)
Based on this logic thinking, if you do the numbers for a field of "go fast only/likely winners" then the entry fees should escalate to around $1250 - $1500 per rider for those who have any chance at all of winning some silverware. The number of races will reduce as there will only be a dozen or so riders & should get the whole thing over before lunch with the fun factor dropping from high to sub zero!
Following the same line, our famous national events like the Melbourne Cup & the Sydney-Hobart would be down to 2 or 3 horse/boat races - go figure :o
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Just reading Teds comments about about my comentry on the weekend, very sorry I wasn't up to your standard Ted, I was asked to do the sidecars mainly because I ride with these guys normally and i know them and there bikes, then asked by OJ the commentator to give him a hand, your quite welcome next time to do some yourself if you think you can do a better job, I did go to the front of the program and look at where people came from but could not make head tail of wwmx, chamx, and all the other abbreviated club, next time given more notice I would do some research into the riders and where they come from, those who no me no I'm a happy go luck guy so see you next time TED and we have a beer and you can tell me how to do it
Thx Popeye
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Comments I overheard Popeye indicated you did a good job.
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Popeye did a great job.. I was impressed
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Popeye did a great job.. I was impressed
Comments I overheard Popeye indicated you did a good job.
Yep! ditto FFS it sure was 1000% better than listening to silence.
Wonder why a lot of the guys I know think the forum contributes less and less to VMX when you have to listen to this negative shit about someone doing their best at no cost to the event for no gain to now be be a target by wankers who's only contribution to the VMX community is slagging off the efforts of others on here and acting like some self appointed "god" to all things VMX.
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I asked Popeye to do a bit of commentary as the guy we had lined up couldn't make it [Gally], he and the young fella from the Toowoomba club did an awesome job, I reckon Popeye could talk under a underwater sidecar now ;D....guess who's gonna be commentator at the Conondale Classic. :)....and well done Slawsey on your win you old bastard.
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What did Slawsey win?!
The "stuck on the Matterhorn" award?
The "Stuck on a berm" award?
Or something else?
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What did Slawsey win?!
The "stuck on the Matterhorn" award?
The "Stuck on a berm" award?
Or something else?
;) the raffle Nath
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50-59 pee wee class Nathan....the old Tassie devil was smok'n.....we'll have to keep an eye out for that second head growing back. ;)
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Great job Popeye, you are one of the good guys in this sport. I have been in this sport for a very short time and I am extremely frustrated and disappointed with the attitudes of a lot of people.I congratulate the winners and place getters , but my biggest congratulations goes out to the riders who went out and had a go in this event. People are realistic and know their not a chance of getting anywhere near the lead in these races due to lack of ability on a bike they have restored and or set up themselves with sometimes very limited knowledge and or finances.in every sport their is all levels of competitors,the good ones should be praised and the rest should be supported I would also like to add this is the sport of classic mx like some of the riders. Some of the older riders who support this sport to no end should be able to feel the track is safe enough for them to ride as well. I am not blaming anyone I thought it was a great event and very well run, I just think we should learn from this and try to improve it for other meetings.
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popeyes commentry was good
and also the younger bloke
with the roving mic
interviewing riders as they finished
in particular the interview with mick kirkness
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commentator - thankless job - so well done Popeye - and I wouldn't expect you to know everything there is about everybody which of course will appear to give a biased effort - geeeez
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You did a great job commentating Popeye.
You can only work with the information you are given.
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We managed to get around the track and we had two people on our bikes ( we did break a frame though ) but we do it for fun and fun we had ( Popeye you could of talked me up abit more mate ;D ;D
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Both fast and slow riders have a responsibility in this.
"Fast Guy" - allow much more clearance than you would passing someone around your speed.
"Not So Fast Guy" - do not try to get out of the way. You will crash or collide. Maintain your line. If you are taking the racing line, but more slowly, the guy behind WILL get past you safely because he can see where you are going.
Blue flags are very useful if the user is a trained & experienced flagman, but if not, and knows who is leading who, he's not watching his sector properly.
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Popeye mate you did a fantastic job! A job you were asked to do at the last minute. As said previously you only gave a running
commentary on the people you knew, it's a shame NO ONE from the NSW crew was able/wanted to assist you. I am perplexed/appalled at the commits on the forum about the PCN.
1) There hasn't been a PCN for 2 years due to other clubs not being able to run it... mostly due to financial constraints.
2) Toowoomba Preped the track for QVMX, Twba race modern machinery & weren't real familiar with what our bikes needed, I think they did a excellent job on the track, if you didn't like it then stick your hand up next time & assist!
3) There is no solution to the FAST/SLOWER debate. It's part of racing. Deal with it & Get over it.
4) The amount of planning & time the committee invested in PCN was to be honest commendable, remember they do this for FREE & give up their own time & life so YOU can race! Stop being so self centered & give them a hand, even something as small as packing up a quick shade can help. I remember seeing a bloke on the quad removing ALL the signs from the track & the fences... not one person offered to help.
5) If we continue to bag the people who run these events they will get the shits & say stuff it do it your self.... then where will we be?
6) It amazes me as to how some people know EVERYTING & how it should be done... yet never put their hand up & take a position on the committee or help.
7) Lastly the NSW Rider #32 Mark Harris, is anyone in contact with him? I would like to know how he is..... & to hear his commits on the PCN & maybe the incident? If some one has his email could they PM the details.
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Mark Harris is ok, he had an op on his ankle and a couple of screws inserted.
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Did you race, Mr Starion?
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Did you race, Mr Starion?
I most certainly did.
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Both fast and slow riders have a responsibility in this.
"Fast Guy" - allow much more clearance than you would passing someone around your speed.
"Not So Fast Guy" - do not try to get out of the way. You will crash or collide. Maintain your line. If you are taking the racing line, but more slowly, the guy behind WILL get past you safely because he can see where you are going.
Blue flags are very useful if the user is a trained & experienced flagman, but if not, and knows who is leading who, he's not watching his sector properly.
I agree the faster rider coming from behind should be able to Work out what the Safest passing part of the track is to take..
the slower rider is too busy trying to go faster :o :o
The Stig
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Mark Harris is ok, he had an op on his ankle and a couple of screws inserted.
Thank you for the update JohnnyO... I am sure we are all concerned as to how he is doing & wish him a speedy recovery!
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Well said Starion. Helping YOUR club is a thankless task and to get bagged for doing so only makes it harder. If it wasn't for the volunteers in our sport (and many other sports) we wouldn't be riding.
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Go Popeye ;)
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I think this thread has reached its use by date. It was to discuss what I saw as a legitimate issue - how to deal with a wide disparity in skills and talent at the titles. However it seems to have tailed off into yet more discussion around the event itself and I think that's counter-productive to the topic at hand.
I have now closed this thread and locked it.