OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: Viper666 on August 23, 2013, 10:05:49 am
-
IMPORTANT, please read! This could sound the death knell for many small clubs & ultimately our sport.
MA in it's infinite wisdom has decide that you no longer need to be a member of a club to get a race licence. As unfor...tunate as it is up to 75% of a club's membership will be for that very reason.
What happens to series such as the Western Region where a rider has to be a member of one of the clubs in the region? Will this veto that? Or will the events Sub regs allow us to determine who rides?
I know there will be some who think this is great, making it cheaper to race/ride but trust me, ultimately you wil have no where to ride as more & more clubs fold taking with them their tracks. Again, trust me on this. Once a track is closed, it will not re-open! Whether you think it's a good idea or not clubs will not be able to survive without that income.
So please go here;
http://www.change.org/en-AU/petitions/motorcycling-australia-revoke-decision-br2403
(http://www.change.org/en-AU/petitions/motorcycling-australia-revoke-decision-br2403)
and sign the petition & stop this rot.
MV has approached most, if not all, clubs in Vic & ALL the other state bodies & there is a 100% stand against this.
A short term gain (Cheaper to get licence) will result in long term pain.
Also please contact MV direct (Ph. 03 9673 0600, Email; [email protected]) a pledge your support but more importantly contact MA (Ph. 1800 564 662, Email; [email protected]) and remind those Aholes that they are employed by us to administrate this sport on our behalf. We are their boss, not the other way round. Let them know in no uncertain terms that we won't stand for this!
Perko
-
That's shite...as you say, the end of clubs as we know of them.
What could be the thinking behind this?? Divide and defeat??
Need to read it again and follow it up.
-
Well, well, well....I could add some more damaging information to this, but for now will think about it.....BIG BROTHER is coming to town.
-
I tried to vote but wont except my vote
-
That is terrible news. I am struggling to believe MA would even consider that? Surely they know the lifeblood of all clubs is the membership? Without the membership you don't have the clubs and without the clubs you don't have the committment and resources to run the events (eg free volunteers). Ultimately without the clubs the sport will crumble.
Oh well .. if we don't have clubs then we probably won't need the State governing bodies .. and if we don't have them then MA probably becomes irrelevant as well. So not all bad maybe ::)
But seriously, you have to ask yourself why they would do such a thing?
-
I guess we have to 'move with the times', riders are bitching about how much it all costs to get a race licence, well I guess MA have just cut-out one payment?
At our club (Mitchell Recreational Motorcycle Club) we run monthly ride days at a Motocross track, the only way you can ride at our days is to be a member of our club, see there are many other ways to entice riders into your club, rather than blackmailing them to join just to get a licence.
Although I remember back in the early days, the club secretary would have to vouch for the ability of the person applying for a licence, not that that happens anymore.
From experience I've learned that MA has done some arse-about things over the years, and even though this rule may be just to help their money-grabbing plight, it might just be a good thing?
-
You are still gunna have to be a memmber of the club organising the event or a member of an invitied club.
Unless MA is going to start running race meetings themselves, and that will mean WORK ;)
-
Although I remember back in the early days, the club secretary would have to vouch for the ability of the person applying for a licence, not that that happens anymore.
As a level 1 coach I do the Kickstart program & log book signing for our Juniors free of charge (Keeping costs down) but also for first time seniors, or seniors that not held a licence in the past 12 months, they have to do a written test & I have to sign off on their riding ability. How will this happen if they don't have to be a member of a club? Sure you can do the written test on line but who "vouches" for your riding ability? We also offer free coaching days to our Juniors as well. Some L1 coaches will take advantage of this to make a buck. If I remember rightly I can charge $33 per person & take up to 6 at a time. Two session a day, 2 days in a weekend = $792 & I can get a permit from MA to run it on anyones land. That's just Juniors, for seniors I could probably squeeze in 10 sessions a day.
we run monthly ride days at a Motocross track, the only way you can ride at our days is to be a member of our club
So do we
rather than blackmailing them to join just to get a licence.
We don't "blackmail" anyone, (Poor choice of words, me thinks heh John?) it is just a fact of life that many members, ours at least, are there just to get their licence & fullfil their obligation of being a club member. This is why we are one of the few clubs (Two I think, don't quote me) that still requires new members to be officially welcomed into the club at a Thursday night meeting. It has cost us many members over the years but we feel it's important for all members to show some committment to the club. Many argued it was too far for them to come just to join but they were willing to travel that distance, and more in the case of PonyX/Enduros, to ride so why not once to join?
Personally I am sick of MA's bloody mindedness. Look at the MX track rule, sorry, guideline changes. 7 metre minimum width, flag marshalpoint 3 metres from the track etc. This is OK for tracks that are flat, you just kick the tyres out a bit further and add some dirt to the jumps but Monza would need $10-20,000 worth of mods to comply and for what? So we can host a Vic title and may make a profit of $5000? The last big change we did to Monza cost the club about $45,000. We still have not recouped that money. This was the 40 gate, 6 metre rule. I asked the then inspectors how long before the rules would change again? Nope, this is the last time I was told. TWO YEARS LATER NEW RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Enough's, enough. Admittedly not all that was spent to comply with the new rules, there were other upgrades done to ammenities, watering system & such but we thought let's do it once & do it properly.
Yes I have stayed off point but I am showcasing the ignorance of this organisation to the common clubs which they are entrusted to govern.
-
You are still gunna have to be a memmber of the club organising the event or a member of an invitied club.
Unless MA is going to start running race meetings themselves, and that will mean WORK
Not for Opens, Vic Titles & Nats
But yes you will, my understanding, be able to govern club, interclub & regions through the sub regs.
-
Seems like a bloody big/risky change to put through without widespread consultation.
I wonder - but don't pretend to know - if they're figuring that clubs will pick up the memberships through closed-to-club events, rather than forcing people to join simply to get a licence?
This rule would have made no difference to me in any year that I've competed.
In 2011, I was a member of five clubs and still had to buy a couple of day memberships...
-
The tracks remaining would be the tax/license payer funded tracks like QLD Moto Park. Costs would sky rocket and the choice of racing types and access would be limited.
I see very little of the motorcycling industry supporting the customers they supply? Except mx, but there should be state and national competition rounds in as many disciplines as there are in every other sport! With $4 Billion turnover in 2012/2013 there must be some that could go to clubs, racers etc??????
Cheers,
Steve
-
think Ma's done number crunching,i'm guessing targeting trackday riders,(fugging 1000's of them :o),i'm thinking average club fees ,well what i'm in is $25-$30,only in 3 this year ::),thats the kicker for racing club 'daze',big deal,it's our passion,fwiw i just renewed my senior nat licence(with 1 race # $20) + $5 cc fee =$315,thank you very much, :P
ps when one "club rule" went out the window,so did the HRR ,MCRC struggles,bearing in mind for (eastern creek)track 'daze' riders don't even need bike licence,car licence suffices??,get that up ya :o
-
Couple of thoughts, at this seemingly early stage,
Is this one way of cutting back the preponderance of 'restricted' type meetings in an effort to force more reliance on 'open' meetings?
Is this a way of getting major sponsorship for these big 'open' meetings that M.A. hopes will happen? (less frequently but bigger)
Is this a way of seperating riders from each other? (through no club camaraderie)
That one sounds like little Johnnies 'work choices'
Does this mean that the situation of riders being selected by promoters will be back in vogue like the old speedway days where newbies couldn't get a go?
Will this lead to M.A.s self destruction with no controlling bodies at all?
Lots of 'black' meetings?
Pancho
-
Is this one way of cutting back the preponderance of 'restricted' type meetings in an effort to force more reliance on 'open' meetings?
It kind of does the opposite? I think!?
Currently, clubs have a pretty healthy revenue stream from memberships.
Running club-only days are cheaper/easier than Open events, and they encourage new memberships.
Running Open events only makes sense if they're bigger events that are intended to attract non-locals.
If you don't need to be a member of any club to get a licence, the club-only days don't change - and "force" people into joining to get a ride, which will largely end up being the memberships you didn't get when people renewed their licence.
But running an Open event doesn't provide any incentive for people to join any club - all of this encourages clubs to run more club-only events, doesn't it?!
My head hurts.
-
I wonder what the thinking is behind this seemingly silly idea? it doesn't make a lot of sense from where I sit but they must have some plan bubbling away under the surface.
-
I wonder what the thinking is behind this seemingly silly idea? it doesn't make a lot of sense from where I sit but they must have some plan bubbling away under the surface.
Got a few theories but nothing I will post here that's for sure.
-
So, now I have been following this since lunch and it seems none of us are any the wiser??except Davey Crocket who seems to know more than he is letting on.
I think the divide and defeat thing is on the cards....nasty little club members getting together in huddles, working against the mighty rulers!!!
But then again, while I was in Europe we didn't need to be a 'club' member to get the all poering FIM licence. I did wonder how small French clubs managed to put on "international" events and even if it all fell over from rain or something, they could still pay start money out and pleasently ask all to 'come back next year' . Must have had good finacial support somewhere.
-
I know I might be the only one who see's this as a step forward.
Really in this day and age why must you be a club member just to get a MA License ( you will still need to join a club to ride club days)
MA should now be able to hopefully remove another obstacle to online quick and easy License application. Sorry guys but I like this idea.
-
FAIR POINT!!
-
MA should now be able to hopefully remove another obstacle to online quick and easy License application. Sorry guys but I like this idea.
Sorry Slakewell, but after you get this license who's running all the events that you then want to ride at?
This idea is good on one level only -easier and cheaper for riders.
It is so wrong on all other levels i couldn't be bothered typing them all, but here's just a couple that may not be so obvious:
- Our club also runs Trials and Enduro and Vintage, nearly all these events are bigger than club days as there isn't enough members to warrant running club events. Who in future will run these if these riders do not need to be part of a club?
- It seems the idea is suited toward encouraging new people into racing, yet these newbies can then step straight into serious competition events - shouldn't it start the other way round?
Actually it is good on two levels - but the second is very short sighted aimed at plugging a big hole.
-
I am not up to date with MA (thankfully) as I once was but are not 80% of events run either club or inter-club events both of which you need to be a member of the club?
-
I think Slakewell is right. The only real difference it will make is for riders who ONLY ride open events - which would be a tiny number of people.
Everyone else needs to join a club to get a ride - net outcome is the same.
Arguably it will reward the clubs who run events.
-
I am also struggling to see any real downside to this. To me all it will do is remove a level of bureaucracy which can't be that bad. ;)
Club's will still run member only events or practice days at their track or interclubs with others. Sure the pro's who only ride at opens and nationals etc wont need to be a club member but that would be insignificant to the majority of clubs.
Cheers
Shaun
-
What I hope can happen from this change.
1) I can go online fill out a questioner and give my card details and receive the license of my choice in the mail within 72 hours.
2) I believe that can boost license rider numbers
3) These guys will want somewhere to race and the numbers you say you will loose might be the numbers you gain. ( swings and merryogorounds doesn't matter how you get it as long as you do)
I have a passionate distrust of MA so I don't endorse this easily please refer the to the first sentence with the word HOPE.
-
I'm with Davey Crocket, something's in the wind. :(
also
Mr Barra,hoping the local small club committee's dont have to do work for it. Long live the Lamington Drive :-X
Im off back to the CCM pages :D
-
It won't change anything.
They stuffed the club system when they set up the Club, Interclub & open system and then made open events so hard to run. Club's started to use memberships as a revenue stream and only run club days instead of interclub. Now riders join so many clubs they don't feel like a member of any. They basically do the Club day circuit.
I would be surprised if there is any riders on here that is a member of only one club.
All it is, they don't want to have to check for a club endorsement.
-
All it is, they don't want to have to check for a club endorsement.
I hope your right as it is the only way to move forward to on line licensing.
Most riders will never understand or ever need to know how the political structure of MA works ( or doesn't )
Until someone does better than previous attempts to amalgamate the system basically were Flucked IMO
This is one political systems that need state bodies like need they a hole to pour money down. :-[
-
The one major floor in this is that when you have to join a club to race, you do (if by choice or not ) get involved in the politics of the club/s. You get to vote at AGMs etc...but also you get to think, 'yes I can help out' or 'no I don't need to get involved'. You can get real keen if you want and become a politician (club captain/secretary/treasurer etc... you might even get to drive a water truck (just before the sidecars come out)
All these things are there if you think it will make a difference and if you don't need to join a club you may never find that out and the sport will suffer.
-
having a MA licence and being a club member dont need to go hand in hand, you will just see more closed to club events.
if it is what it is, it might even release the clubs of some internal work.
I dont think it's a problem, but we will have to wait and see.
Cheers worms
-
follow the money guys.
ma licence is what? an insurance cover...
where does that and club membership crossover?
look at vinduro.. lots of 1 day licences...casual attitudes to the sport,
I think ma see a lot of potential to sign up 1 dayers by removing the club issue.
modern life means to a lot of people, not enough time to be a full active clubbie but still ride 6 events a year without getting divorced.
-
Day memberships are fairly common at most closed-to-club events anyhow.
The more I think about it, the less real change this wil make.
-
the way i'm reading this is that for all these years we have been paying for a day licence and we did'nt need it , it sounds like.
smartie.
-
Doesn't mean anything for day licences.
-
I belong to a club that has a total of about 25 members with an annual membership fee of $22 and a race day fee of $10 and free practice......I don't know how we have survived this long ::)
We have a 2 story club house, bar, toilet/shower facilities, fully shaded pit area (BIG), irrigation to the whole track at the flick of a switch and the club has run events up to a state title level.
We have some very smart people on board who access 10's of thousands of $$ in grant money each year (it's out there).
This new rule will only effect clubs who have sat back and relied on club memberships as a source of income. The obvious solution would be to charge non-members an extra $ 10 nomination fee on race day....join the club or pay more to ride....easy.
-
evo550,
Looked into the grant situation but hit brick walls as we own our track & no one wants to put into a privately owned facility.
I know there are grants out there for us but I can't find them. Any help?
-
Pretty sure our club even paid a bloke to do some grant submissions and they were knocked back. There must be a trick to it. Or our track is located in a low economic area and they consider putting money into something that the majority can't afford doesn't stack up or something?
-
evo550,
Looked into the grant situation but hit brick walls as we own our track & no one wants to put into a privately owned facility.
I know there are grants out there for us but I can't find them. Any help?
Dept sport and recreation here in W.A.
Mcdonalds.
Bank west.
State lotto/gambling.
Check with your local council to see if they have a Club development officer, if they have one, and they're switched on they can be worth their weight in gold...and their free.
Although things might change if it's a privately owned facility.
-
evo550,
Looked into the grant situation but hit brick walls as we own our track & no one wants to put into a privately owned facility.
I know there are grants out there for us but I can't find them. Any help?
Make it about people/activities, rather than property.
Asking for $X,000 for earthworks is generally looked at quite differently to asking for $X,000 for junior development, or fluro vests, or first aid training, or...
Make it warm and fuzzy. And don't rule out stuff that the club was going to buy/pay for anyhow - if you get the grant for the essentials, it will free up money for the 'extras'.
-
evo550,
Looked into the grant situation but hit brick walls as we own our track & no one wants to put into a privately owned facility.
I know there are grants out there for us but I can't find them. Any help?
Dept sport and recreation here in W.A.
Mcdonalds.
Bank west.
State lotto/gambling.
Check with your local council to see if they have a Club development officer, if they have one, and they're switched on they can be worth their weight in gold...and their free.
Although things might change if it's a privately owned facility.
Health Ways
Smarter than smoking
Drink free
any kind of grants that's health promoting.. good luck :)
-
Well, well, well....I could add some more damaging information to this, but for now will think about it.....BIG BROTHER is coming to town.
I must be the only one who wants to know your damaging info Davey????????????????? and BB?????? how do they plan to start that one?? Cameras at all venues?
-
evo550,
Looked into the grant situation but hit brick walls as we own our track & no one wants to put into a privately owned facility.
I know there are grants out there for us but I can't find them. Any help?
Make it about people/activities, rather than property.
Asking for $X,000 for earthworks is generally looked at quite differently to asking for $X,000 for junior development, or fluro vests, or first aid training, or...
Make it warm and fuzzy. And don't rule out stuff that the club was going to buy/pay for anyhow - if you get the grant for the essentials, it will free up money for the 'extras'.
Spot on Nathan.
It also is worthwhile for the clubs to have some of it's own funds to contribute. It all depends on who you are going to for the grant, dealing with the govt for money is a whole lot harded than Macca's, but my limited experience with all this is, that's it's easier to get 3x$5000 grants then 1 x $15000. The buzz word is currently "multi purpose", so something that can do the same job as three of something else. You will struggle to get money for earthworks and would stand a much better chance of getting money for a bobcat instead. Much better bang for the grantee's buck...
Our local council has a $500 per annum "no questions asked" grant for sporting clubs....cash in hand, then up to $50k grants through out the year for sporting clubs.
Good luck with it all, my first port of call would be your local council to see if they have a Club/sports development officer and take it from there.
-
Information Bulletin: Club Membership
August 23, 2013
Motorcycling Australia (MA) wishes to advise that the MA Board will consider deferring the decision on removal of the compulsory club membership requirement for a period of 12 months while further consultation takes place.
It is currently compulsory to be a member of an affiliated club to be eligible to obtain or renew an MA competition licence. A decision was made at the June 2013 Board meeting to no longer make club membership compulsory from 2014.
The decision to make club membership optional for obtaining or renewing a licence was made to reduce the administration burden on both clubs and State Controlling Bodies. Furthermore, it would streamline the licence process for members as MA and the State Controlling Bodies move toward an online licensing system.
This procedural change was entirely aimed at making the process easier and more accessible that could result in increased members. Club viability would remain protected as clubs would continue to rightly insist on membership to participate in club/interclub competition. The majority of events are club based and the majority of participants would continue to compete in club events.
The MA Board will review and confirm its decision at the October 2013 Board meeting.
The decision will be open to public feedback until 30th September. Submit your feedback on this decision by sending to: [email protected]
-
Information Bulletin: Club Membership
August 23, 2013
Motorcycling Australia (MA) wishes to advise that the MA Board will consider deferring the decision on removal of the compulsory club membership requirement for a period of 12 months while further consultation takes place.
It is currently compulsory to be a member of an affiliated club to be eligible to obtain or renew an MA competition licence. A decision was made at the June 2013 Board meeting to no longer make club membership compulsory from 2014.
The decision to make club membership optional for obtaining or renewing a licence was made to reduce the administration burden on both clubs and State Controlling Bodies. Furthermore, it would streamline the licence process for members as MA and the State Controlling Bodies move toward an online licensing system.
This procedural change was entirely aimed at making the process easier and more accessible that could result in increased members. Club viability would remain protected as clubs would continue to rightly insist on membership to participate in club/interclub competition. The majority of events are club based and the majority of participants would continue to compete in club events.
The MA Board will review and confirm its decision at the October 2013 Board meeting.
The decision will be open to public feedback until 30th September. Submit your feedback on this decision by sending to: [email protected]
I can't really see how it will change anything, you will still need to be a club member the second you go to use that new license at a race day, so it shouldn't effect the clubs membership base at all.
It will help the club sec who has to run around for members who can't get their shit together.
-
MA have now put the decision on hold, for now.
-
BEst idea i ever seen. IF a club cant attract its own memebrs through running propper days then having racers having to join there shitbox club to get a licnece sign off is a joke. its why we are all in such a shit IMHO. If many clube keep using this bullshit line that the racers have to join our clubs so the rank and file stay then the club is on borrowed time.
I am yet to see or hear one logical and resonable reason that you shold have to be a club member to have a MA license. IF a club held a decent home calender and track days on a regular basis as closed to club then they could infact charge $10 a day extra for non club memeber etc being equal to the amount they thought they deserved from forcing racers to join just to get there licence. This would ensure more ridses, more efforts and more incentives for clubs to hold events. THe whole point of not having to be a member somewhere is that you can make the licences electronic, online payments, update, restrcition, medical clearances and so on in real time, all from the confort of you PC rather than having to wait for you club to sign your shit, for the rac sec to check all the stuff on the day and for you not to have to wait 3 weeks for your SCB to take your money and print our a 2 min card without your photo on it, that will keep no history of the events you attended or the sports you enter. Having to get a license because you are a member of some poxy club is a total waste of time or effort.
-
BEst idea i ever seen. IF a club cant attract its own memebrs through running propper days then having racers having to join there shitbox club to get a licnece sign off is a joke. its why we are all in such a shit IMHO. If many clube keep using this bullshit line that the racers have to join our clubs so the rank and file stay then the club is on borrowed time.
I am yet to see or hear one logical and resonable reason that you shold have to be a club member to have a MA license. IF a club held a decent home calender and track days on a regular basis as closed to club then they could infact charge $10 a day extra for non club memeber etc being equal to the amount they thought they deserved from forcing racers to join just to get there licence. This would ensure more ridses, more efforts and more incentives for clubs to hold events. THe whole point of not having to be a member somewhere is that you can make the licences electronic, online payments, update, restrcition, medical clearances and so on in real time, all from the confort of you PC rather than having to wait for you club to sign your shit, for the rac sec to check all the stuff on the day and for you not to have to wait 3 weeks for your SCB to take your money and print our a 2 min card without your photo on it, that will keep no history of the events you attended or the sports you enter. Having to get a license because you are a member of some poxy club is a total waste of time or effort.
must be a sth oz thing ,the shitbox,& poxy clubs,i wouldn't want to join them either Kerry,they sound terrible!!, :P
ps probably pre 90's :o