OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: Big Bird on August 09, 2013, 09:07:24 pm
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I’ve got a bit to say here and it might seem random and scattered. I am motivated to write this after reading yet another argument about bike eligibility and who should be allowed to come to what event. I am NOT after sympathy, but offer this as context. I sometimes think a few here need reminding that we are all in this to enjoy ourselves.
I am 46 years old, and I love bikes. I’ve been riding since I was 8. I’ve raced motocross, done a few years of road racing, worked in the industry for 12 years, and despite the fact that I couldn’t ride out of sight on a dark night I have never lost my passion for these things.
A few years ago I was diagnosed with a degenerative neurological condition. I was told that at best, I might be able to manage it with little impact on my lifestyle. At worst I would be in full-time care within 5-10 years. I seem to be heading towards the latter more than the former.
Upon diagnosis I decided that it was time to start enjoying what I still could do. I bought a modern Husky, loved it. I also discovered the joy of doing up old bikes. As a 13 year old I had lusted after RM125T’s, YZ125G’s, CR125 RA’s. A year later all I wanted in this life was an RM “X” model – 125 or 250. I now own both an RM250X and an RM125T and am just chuffed to be restoring them to their former glory. I’ve even found some Fox AirShox to put on the 125.
I finally “get” historic racing. In my earlier days I thought it provided us “modern” racers an opportunity to go the food van before the official lunch rush. Now I see the joy of people getting together and sharing their passion, and helping each other to keep on track. It is about community and being part of something bigger than ourselves. It is about purpose.
I went to HBBB as a spectator this year, first time I have ever been and I was really looking forward to it. I walked through the MX pits and the first thing I heard was some angry lemon-sucking old whinger vocalizing at the top of his voice the character shortcomings of one of his peers. Apparently there was something heated going on in the background about an eligibility issue, which sounded utterly trivial to me, and this bloke and his faction were making a huge song and dance about it. It reminded me very quickly of everything less than complimentary I had heard about the historic scene. Old men arguing about …. well, anything. Similarly, I learnt fast that the quickest way to turn grown VMXers into utter parodies of themselves is to use the words 1977 RM125 and aluminium swingarm in the same sentence.
How is it that some people take up a hobby, but then feel the need to spend so much energy arguing about it? Does it really make for a better sport? A better experience?
I love my RM’s. I would also love to get my hands on a good 1988 YZ125, my first ever race bike (2VN-037249, if any of you have it in your shed…). And my pride and joy is a 1967 Sprite, a bike that was built the year I was born and which I feel utterly privileged to own. Some of my passion comes from nostalgia, some is just respect for history and just a love of bikes irrespective of their origins or age. I’d gladly ride any of these bikes, anywhere that I could ride them, and I’d gladly ride at a pre 90 event, or a pre 85, or a pre 70, or anything that was available to me.
We are meant to be united. We all love our bikes, we all love the opportunity to ride them and talk about them and show them off to each other. I could not give a fat rat’s if the bike before me is a pre-90 or a pre-70 or if it is Japanese or British or if it is period correct or if it is a road bike or a scrambler or if it was brought here on a trailer or ridden or if the rider has ridden all his life or has just swung in to the scene with his hipster mates. If the passion is there, they are one of us.
The biggest threat that this sport faces has nothing to do with cut-off years and component eligibility and age of riders. It is the image we project to newcomers to the sport, and the community we build as we grow. We can be welcoming and inclusive – and the sport will thrive. OR we can be jealous and argumentative, and watch the squabbling slowly drive our people back into their own sheds.
Now I’m not trying to milk my situation as some sort of one-upmanship, but I can assure you that when you are confronted with not being able to ride at all, suddenly the sorts of issues that some people want to invest their energies into start seeming damn trivial. I know there are some others on these boards whose recent health scares put mine into perspective too – and I’d expect their point of view might be similar.
So – can we get back to enjoying ourselves? We have a great sport here, lets not spoil it over trivialities.
I hope the above doesn’t seem too self indulgent, but I just needed to get it off my chest. I'll go and have a beer now....
Cheers all,
Geoff
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Well put Geoff great perspective.
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Thanks for your personal insight Geoff, whether one agrees or disagrees with the point of view it's certainly one with the utmost validity. Do you still work in the industry?? Good luck with your struggles mate, kudus to you for looking at your glass as "half full" :)
Cheers, Brendan
PS enjoy that beer ;)
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Big Bird, thanks for all that introduction to our sport that we all love, I have been saying it for years, I have been involve with this sport right from the very start, I totally on your side. My son has a 1989 yamaha YZ125 , there would be much difference between the two models if your interested.
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That's the best post in months Geoff......absolutely spot on. I really hope your health woes go into some sort of remission and you can remain involved in our sport for years to come. ;)
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Thanks Geoff, great piece.
Now I’m not trying to milk my situation as some sort of one-upmanship, but I can assure you that when you are confronted with not being able to ride at all, suddenly the sorts of issues that some people want to invest their energies into start seeming damn trivial.
Geez, I've just got arthritis's in my hands and I feel the same.
Cheers
Noel
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Well what can one say after that !!! Best post in a long time . ;D Iain Ps Geoff HBBB was my first time this year too , Had a great time even got a Cpl of laps on my possessed pre 70 Yamaha's .
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The old bike scene is about people - the bikes are the obvious bit, but not really the important bit.
My Harrow experience this year is a good example:
Had Mate #0 ring me to tell me that entries were open - I wasn't sure I could make it (lots going on in my life), so I fobbed him off.
Then Mate #1 just goes ahead and enters me.
Busted my arse to get my CR ready, wasn't going to make it.
Mate #1 and mate #2 took time out of the working day to help get it ready.
Sent a text to Mate #3, asking if he might have a cheap bike I could buy to get me around Harrow.
He says "No, but Mate #4 has a spare bike. I'll ask if he's happy for you to ride it".
Mate #4 is happy for me to ride the bike, and happy to cart it across Victoria for me.
Then we get to Harrow. Catch up with a bunch of good people - including plenty of mates - who are all enjoying themselves a whole lot. Got recognised in the Drakie/Baker show, along with everyone else. Drank too many beers with Mates #5, #6, #7, #8 & #9 (along with Mates #1 & #2).
Mates #5 & #6 were happy to transport bits to and from their home state for me. Then again, Mate #6 was riding my YZ in the event...
Got helped out of a boghole by two complete strangers (New Mate #1 and #2).
Then I broke Mate #4's bike. Not catastrophic, but not what either of us wanted. He is unfazed, and says stuff like "it was overdue for a rebuild anyhow". And refuses offers of parts or money - just "you could return the favour someday", which I'd be more than happy to do.
Mate #7 had offered to transport a project bike back to Canberra for me, but because I hadn't gotten back to Mate #8 in time, he'd sold it to Mate #9. :)
I can go on, but you get the idea - it's about PEOPLE NOT BIKES. People with a common interest in old bikes for sure, but people.
My stories from various Classic Dirts, various HBBBs, most club days and even various CMX titles are similar. The bikes are the focus, but it's the people that make it special.
To then get home to the news that the organisers are planning on introducing a rule that was going to exclude about a dozen people who don't quite meet the letter of the law, seemed like the most pointless and destructive thing I've heard in a long time.
What can I do from there? Pretend to be happy and positive about it, and say "yeah, great idea fellas", even though every part of me thinks it is A Very Bad Idea?
We are a tiny fringe sport/past-time, and will never be mainstream - but we are dooming ourselves to mediocrity while we are so focused on saying "no" and finding ways to exclude people.
Obviously there have to be limits, but working out how to say Yes and be inclusive is what I've been harping on about (in my own charming way).
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Thanks all for the kind words.
Nathan, I think we are on the same page. We are part of a community, and that is worth fighting for. I just get concerned when the fighting starts happening within the community, not for the good of the community.
Thanks Iain. I probably saw you at HBBB. Next year I'll get around and talk to people a bit more...
Cheers NSR, and yeah, it seems there are a few of us around who are pondering whinge culture.
Firko, thanks, and I wont be leaving this community too quickly.
Dave, you were the guy who got me into this whole game when I bought that Sprite DT1 off you. Cheers mate.
Rookie, the beer went down quite nicely :) I work for a mob called the Society of Automotive Engineers now (SAE), so sort of linked to the industry still
Thanks oldstuff.
Cheers all
Geoff
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Top post Geoff :) you and Nathan are both correct it is about people but it is human nature that causes any problems or dissention in what we do.
Sure we all want to ride and enjoy our old bikes thats why we got into it in the first place . For the record i have a real problem with authority and disapline ::) in everyday life , it can be a good thing and a bad thing .
With motorcycling i am different , its what i want to do so i try to play within the guidelines / rules laid down by whos ever event i am riding at and get pissed off when others wont comply or have to push their own agenda while at the event .
Im not saying that i agree with all the rules and regs in the MOMs but if i feel passionatly enough i will try to get them changed through the correct channels .
As for putting off newcomers to what we do with the attitude i and some others have about doing it by the book then personally i dont care because i dont want / need another person in the sport whos going to whinge and want to buck the system .
Educating newcomers to the sport is the way forward / events like the recent bike show Ted and the boys put on in Sydney is a great way to introduce new people to what we do .
In your post you called what we do a sport , all sports have rules and all sports have a percentage of competitors who want to play outside the rules . Even the Social events like the CD events and Broadford bonnanza have guidelines/ cut off dates .If these are not upheld then why call it a classic or vintage event , just call it a motorcylce rally and invite anyone to ride / show any motorcycle they have , but i think there are plenty of those events already .
William Doe MIAME
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Top post Geoff :) you and Nathan are both correct it is about people but it is human nature that causes any problems or dissention in what we do.
Sure we all want to ride and enjoy our old bikes thats why we got into it in the first place . For the record i have a real problem with authority and disapline ::) in everyday life , it can be a good thing and a bad thing .
With motorcycling i am different , its what i want to do so i try to play within the guidelines / rules laid down by whos ever event i am riding at and get pissed off when others wont comply or have to push their own agenda while at the event .
Im not saying that i agree with all the rules and regs in the MOMs but if i feel passionatly enough i will try to get them changed through the correct channels .
As for putting off newcomers to what we do with the attitude i and some others have about doing it by the book then personally i dont care because i dont want / need another person in the sport whos going to whinge and want to buck the system .
Educating newcomers to the sport is the way forward / events like the recent bike show Ted and the boys put on in Sydney is a great way to introduce new people to what we do .
In your post you called what we do a sport , all sports have rules and all sports have a percentage of competitors who want to play outside the rules . Even the Social events like the CD events and Broadford bonnanza have guidelines/ cut off dates .If these are not upheld then why call it a classic or vintage event , just call it a motorcylce rally and invite anyone to ride / show any motorcycle they have , but i think there are plenty of those events already .
William Doe MIAME
Yep! I started to post similar.
say Yes and be inclusive is what I've been harping on about (in my own charming way).
But yes is the answer. Purchase, borrow the correct bike for the event and its all ' Yes Man'.
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Im not saying that i agree with all the rules and regs in the MOMs but if i feel passionatly enough i will try to get them changed through the correct channels .
The recent Veri rules eligibility discussion is not about rules in the MoMS.
I was not at that original Vinduro meeting when the rules were originally discussed,
but I was told that it was decided that the pre-85 cuttoff would not be strict like VMX and the the rules would be reviewed at a later date.
The problem we have at the moment is that there is talk of tightening the rules rather than talk of reviewing what would make the rules the best for the sport.
Tighteneing the rules to exclude bikes currently coming to events and excluding bikes that are in the same spirit of Vinduro are both bad for the sport.
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yet again Bill has in right IMO - we are vintage not just bikes, we have events which are open and free for all and others that maybe because they are competition and not social have stricter rules. I have no issues with that - I checked out the local scene before buying a bike and bought a bike to suit that I never imagined I would ever do and because I am also like Geoff just enjoyed the bike.
Enjoy what is on offer, if you don't like it either don't go or try and change through the system (and remember the majority may not agree with you).
Sweat the big stuff in life - and remember there isn't any big stuff in VMX ;D
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Thanks Big Bird for starting the thread (although it wouldn't surprise me if it ends up in a sh!t fight, lol).
I too left MX to go roadracing (in '85) and after MA & MV killing it with bad management, have returned to the dirt last year, getting the vmx bug real bad (buying 11 dirtbikes in 12 months!).
I love everything motorcycle, be it 'Pre 70' to 'Pre 2000' mx, CB750 to ZX10, Jawa speedway bike or TLR125 trials bike. And yes I built an '77 RM125 with an alloy swingarm lol ;-)
I can understand some riders, that take so much care to build a bike to exactly fit a class, complaining about other bikes that don't comply. But if the people running CD (for example) gets its numbers from just 'Pre 85' so be it.
At Viper & VCM events in Vic they are both relaxed when it comes 'eligbility' so I don't think it is a big issue. I guess the people running the National Champs need to look at the numbers of riders they are getting verses the cripiling compliance regulations?
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At Viper & VCM events in Vic they are both relaxed when it comes 'eligbility' so I don't think it is a big issue. I guess the people running the National Champs need to look at the numbers of riders they are getting verses the cripiling compliance regulations?
John while i can see the philophisy behind relaxing the elidgibility at club level i think that attitude also leads to problems at national events .
Ole mate joins up with your or anyones club , really gets into it and is having a ball , he races pre 78 on a 1977 250 RYMX but has a few 78 / 79 model components fitted but nobody cares or points out its technicaly outside the rules . Next he gets caught up in the enthusiasm for the nats and enters pre 78 250 as this is what he races at club level .
Gets to the nats and
Scenario #1 gets pulled up at scrutineering and told change it or ride up a class ( unlikley as in my experience officals like the badge but dont want to be the bad guy )
Scenario #2 gets told on the startline for practice by other riders that his bike is inelidgable and that he could be protested / excluded ( unlikley as most fellow competitors are there for a good time not a confrontation and surley the officials will pick that up , see above )
Scenario #3 ole mate races the event and podiums only to get protested out of placing by another competitor . Ole mate is gutted and confused /dissolusioned , fellow competitor feels bad about it but hey hes played by the rules , offical is uncomforatble as now wearing the badge aint so much fun .
The rules are the rules and should be upheld at all levels or done away with completly.
To say the organisers should look at numbers versus crippling compliance is not the clubs call , they are held to ransom by MA and their GREED and the contents of that MOMs ;)
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agree - sorry John - you last sentence is wrong - there has to be somewhere a line is drawn in the sand which we work to. Geez we wouldn't have 1/2 the fun we do currently if it wasn't pre 85, Evo, pre 78, pre 75 etc if there were no rules (compliance) and it was a free for all - I don't want to ride against pre 85 bikes on my pre 78 bike etc.
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Yeh I do agree with you Bill & Ross, with regard National events I didn't mean to get 'too' relaxed.... like running 11" of travel in Pre 78, just being allowed to run a Suzuki alloy arm on your RM125 when you can buy a DG or Thor arm legally. I really meant being a little more flexible (if needed) to get the numbers, as they do at club level.
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John with respect your opinion come across as a idealist , the system ( and from your experience you know it way better than me ) is far from ideal . Many many things in the MOMs are IMHO at best outdated and at worst just plain wrong . Also the long winded process to change them ( for such a minority sport ) is ridiculous . I think people in postions of power in the sport paid or vollenteers should be changed regulary like babies nappies and for the same reason ;)
This Forum gets regularly touted as a good medium of competitor opinion ( only today it has been suggested that the comments on this forum could have contributed to the abandonment of the classic nats by the club involved) .Yet when ever a contentious elidgibility issue is raised on here all you will ever get from MA officials is veiled sarcasm and inuendo , justified with comments like "this forum is not the place to discuss these issues " but no real help to resolve the issue or put it to bed officially ::)
Mean while we have to work with what we have and if clubs stick to the rules and educate newcomers to the sport , while working to change the ridiculous rules or the system completley then surley that can only help .
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You've been missing what I have been saying Bill, MOMS is MA, I am going outside MA so you can throw the MOMS in the bin! Sure we can use it as a guide (let's not reinvent the wheel), I will draft up entry-form guidelines (sup-regs, not wanting to use ACU terminology) from input from you guys.
You gotta dream and think outside the square then take a chance. I didn't ride at the Isle of Man TT, on the banking at Daytona, in World Superbike races, test bikes for Trail & Track, or even owning my own (small) MX track from it all falling in my lap, I dreamt it then I made it happen.
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Ok the ball is 'rolling' I have planted the seed at Winton MX Club and with a few prospective sponsors.
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Sorry John if i missed that , then i sincerley wish you every succsess and hope you get the support to make it happen . The curent system is failing miserably at national level for whatever reason . MA shafting QVMX over their event shows that they are just another faceless organisation focused on how many $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ they can bleed from their members and completley out of touch with the reality of clubs trying to run events .
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Ok the ball is 'rolling' I have planted the seed at Winton MX Club and with a few prospective sponsors.
If it is to the best interest of your campaign towards Winton, when I was on the sub-committee for vintage motcross, at one meeting we meet the president of the Historic road racing, and he wanted us to run a round of the victorian vintage motocross championship rounds on the same weekend as the historic road racing rounds, it could have be done, we where all keen, but it fell flat and know one took it up. now if you where to approach them again it may be worth while, also the grand prix corporation wanted us to run a promotion race meeting at Philip Island on the same week end as the Moto 1 GP, that was back in 1998-99, when I was promoting VMX Magazine.
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If there is people whinging, I suggest you just not listen to them, because if it wasn't old bikes they would be whinging about something else. I went to Historic Road Race titles and The Island Classic failed to hear anybody whinge about anything(except for one rider who made the mistake of whinging to Tim Sanford at the titles). Island Classic had 350 or so competitiors from 4 countries with slightly different rules for each cut off, the numbers from the US and UK keep growing every year.
Just stop taking any notice of whingers and get on with enjoying old bikes.
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The only real whingeing about eligibility is on this forum. In the real world at the track there is very little dissent.
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Who is whingeing, I am all for the currant rules, pre 75 cut off dates are about the only issue that l have, and thats not going to change, so l don`t bother, and that is my personal issue. as it stands for all these years, I except all rules that is in place.
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But yes is the answer. Purchase, borrow the correct bike for the event and its all ' Yes Man'.
Just another way of saying No.
We're stuck in this mentality of "more rules is better", and "stricter enforcement will fix it", when the opposite is true.
Quibbling over whether a modified RM-C swing arm is pre-78 is legal, or whether you need the operationally-identical optional RM-B alloy arm is a joke.
Say Yes, and all the bullshit goes away - with no actual bad points.
Wanting to kick a handful of 1985/86 models out of a non-competitive event achieves nothing but will surely drive people away. Continue to Say Yes to them (even quietly), and the problems go away.
The same is repeated time and again in the world of old dirt bikes: Metisse down tubes, 1974.5 KTM shock mounts, Yamaha TLS front brakes/fork legs, CZ sprocket mounting, 75 CR125 barrels, etc etc...
They're minor details in the big picture, but we spend (or have spent) WAAAAY too much time and effort worrying about them - to no benefit to anyone.
The main purpose of the VMX/Vinduro worlds should be riding and enjoying old bikes.
Instead, we've become an army of bush lawyers, all ready to mutter under our breaths about things that are "not right", while knowing that the transgression is trivial and has absolutely no bearing on the outcome of the race (or non-competitive event, FFS).
There's been a couple of too-new bikes turn up to Retro rounds over the last couple of years. The organisers have Said Yes (but not to score championship points), knowing full well that the bikes weren't quite right.
And guess what? There was no bad point - another entry fee for the organisers, another membership for the club, another bike on the track, another smiling face at the end of the day. An inclusive attitude, not an exclusive one.
Even the old bogey man of "what if they ruin my race" has never eventuated, despite the "illegal bikes" being right up near the front most of the time (because they had competent riders, not because the CR125 had a HPP barrel on it...).
I'm not saying that we want to see 12" travel on pre-75 bikes, but there's just so much bullshit over nothing.
I did the CAMS scrutineering course many years ago. The trainer said something very important:
"You job is not to find faults. Your job is to get as many safe and fair cars onto the track as possible".
We have plenty of VMX scrutineers who understand this - the rot within comes from everywhere, certainly not just from (some) scrutineers.
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The only real whingeing about eligibility is on this forum. In the real world at the track there is very little dissent.
People want certainty - confidence, at least. The rules as they are written do not provide that, especially coupled with the Say No attitude being quite common.
The current rules would be fine, if participants could reliably count on organisers making a genuine effort to accommodate them.
Imagine how fantastic is would be if someone asked "I think the forks on my RM are wrong - will this be a problem?", and everyone on the forum could confidently say "you'll get a ride mate. Just turn up and they'll sort you out - they'll love to see you there".
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again Nathan - for non competitive events not a drama - that level of flexibility can't fit into something where people are racing for "sheep stations". And what is next - move the rules to accommodate your stance and then the next guy comes along, followed by the next guy etc. Why bother at all.
Why not identify and change those that aren't correct rather than just ignoring the lot. Why do we get away from the fact that a huge percentage of our followers have done the right thing, one way or the other and we want to accommodate those that don't.
I reckon all the 180 riders and 500 bikes at Conondale fell into the right categories with minimal fuss?
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In my vmx fantasy world, we would have:
- A clear set of regulations so that everyone knew exactly what was legal and what wasn't (one of my first posts here was on this topic, I am still none the wiser)
- Competitors understanding and respecting officials, and vice versa
- The wisdom to know when/where it is appropriate to take a stand, and when to let it go
This thread was primarily raised in regard to the final point. There is nothing more frustrating than to find some "me time" in this life, only for someone to see your free time as an opportunity to push their agenda. A bit like that old school mate of mine who came around to catch up - and then pulled out his Amway presentation....
Cheers for the input all,
Geoff
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So what did he sign you up for Geoff , the hand sanitizer and the washing powder ;D
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Geoff the Ma rule book is the only rules if your going to race in a MA event . If its not listed as in the cut off dates or parts allowed don't be surprised if some one picks up on it . Agree or disagree with how MA runs it these are the RULES we run by . Iain
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again Nathan - for non competitive events not a drama - that level of flexibility can't fit into something where people are racing for "sheep stations". And what is next - move the rules to accommodate your stance and then the next guy comes along, followed by the next guy etc. Why bother at all.
Why not identify and change those that aren't correct rather than just ignoring the lot. Why do we get away from the fact that a huge percentage of our followers have done the right thing, one way or the other and we want to accommodate those that don't.
I reckon all the 180 riders and 500 bikes at Conondale fell into the right categories with minimal fuss?
Obviously it's not a "one size fits all events" thing, but I still think that's the direction we need to be pointing - even for the nationals (which would be the lowest tolerance event).
We should be wholesale ignoring a lot of things we currently don't - not the big stuff (obviously), but stuff like top triple clamps with/without rubber mounts, casting lugs on fork lowers, and that sort of irrelevant nonsense.
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If you are going to have a race event, you need rules. If you have rules, they need to be clear, and they need to be enforced by the officials and followed by those who have entered. If you don't like the rules at an event, you should either work to change them or not enter the event. You may (rightly) think it is a dumb rule but by entering you've agreed to follow the rules.
If the officials are not going to enforce a rule, or enforce it unevenly, they need to eliminate that rule or change it to a form that they will enforce. I find it very annoying to go to some effort to meet a rulebook requirement just to see officials ignoring other people who couldn't be bothered to make that effort. It also makes me lose respect for the officials and the organization they represent.
It is helpful if the rules can be easily enforced by a visual inspection. My local modern RR club has a "production" class and pretty much anything goes on the inside of the engine but you've got to retain the unmodified stock intake/exhaust components. Those parts limit the utility of the internal mods and you can inspect them without an expensive tear-down. This makes it easy for the club to enforce.
My own take on vintage rules is that they should be more about general "does it look period" appearance and functional issues than "sorry, we know it is the same part but your's is stamped 1 day after the cut-off so it can't be used" nit-picking. If you have a short-travel class then saying that everyone has a max of 7"/4" and has to meet that no matter what the bike had originally is easy to follow and easy to enforce. Yes, having 7.125" may not make a significant difference but sorry, a line has to be drawn somewhere. Besides, it usually isn't terribly difficult to snub the travel down a bit to meet the required amount.
Each major period has a certain style. Most people can probably determine "looks right for the time" without a lot of disagreement. If a conical wheel hub looks reasonably period, does it really matter if the one fitted is from a 1969 CZ, a 1974 Bultaco or a 1981 CR250? They'll all work pretty much the same and from 10 feet they can look pretty similar and "old dirt bikeish". But a late 1970s "snail pipe" exhaust on a Rickman Villiers just doesn't look right. Be reasonable about things.
There were lots of bitzas and DIY chassis (some very innovative/weird) made in the 50/60/70/80s. If someone wants to mix and match period parts, more power to them. If someone wants to build a frame that looks (and functions) similar to something that was (or could have been) made in the period, that's wonderful. It adds some interest, it makes the builder happy, and it probably won't be making a back marker suddenly zoom to the front. There's only so much you can do when you are limited to period suspension.
Sauce for the goose should also be sauce for the gander. If bike X is allowed something, every other bike in that class should get the same treatment. Conversely, if all the other bikes are limited to X, than bike Y also needs to be limited to X, no matter how it came (e.g. 4" rear suspension limits and AJS Stormers).
I think the goal should be to have as few simple rules as you can get away with and still present the kind of bikes that you want for the event. There should be some flexibility for dealing with a rare "just over the line" issue but I'd think that is best done with "you get one free pass, it MUST be fixed the next time you enter". If you go back to turning a blind eye then you are better off rewriting the rule because official favoritism makes the officials look bad and it makes the racers unhappy. It is nice when everyone goes to an event and comes away happy!
cheers,
Michael
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There were lots of bitzas and DIY chassis (some very innovative/weird) made in the 50/60/70/80s. If someone wants to mix and match period parts, more power to them. If someone wants to build a frame that looks (and functions) similar to something that was (or could have been) made in the period, that's wonderful. It adds some interest, it makes the builder happy, and it probably won't be making a back marker suddenly zoom to the front. There's only so much you can do when you are limited to period suspension.
UNQUOTE
I couldn't agree more....
If someone goes to the great lengths required to build a "special" from a whole lot of parts that would otherwise have no use, then why exclude it from an event IF it complies with the suspension/engine/look of the period?
People have been modifying and attempting to make bikes "better" since the beginning of all things 2 wheels.
Believe it or not, most of us will never be competing for "sponsored rides or money"! Most of us have had our youtrhful race lives and now just want to ride our old bikes with a bunch of like minded people and hopefully get to put in a few good laps bangin' 'bars with someone of our own ability.
And this is the success of club days. No one is out to stop someone from riding IF their bike looks like it's "right".
If you do happen to get the bug to contest the "nats", I'm sure asking around at the club if your "special" will comply within whatever period you wish to contest will get you an answer one way or the other.
The serious racer will always be just that. The rest of us are in it for the fun, friendship and bench racing!
I don't give a rats about alloy swingarms on a 77 model RM, longer shocks (withing travel limits) on a 76 CR or "incorrect" hubs on a Hodaka. The more bikes on a start line the better in my opinion.
There is a rule book for us to go by. Every licensed racer gets one yearly. Even then, there will always be those that try to push the boundaries of eligibility. Crikey, even F1 has issues from time to time.
Take the seriousness out of riding our old bikes and there will be alot less "issues".
That's my $2 worth,
Mark
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This post is in general terms the right approach, and yes we do need rules. My observation is ( never been a scrutineer) that broadly speaking our current rules are pretty good and in most instances when someone gets pinged it's because they are trying it on, or innocently unaware. In recent years I've generally found scrutineers to be fair. The common scenario is bring an iffy bike to a meeting, get pulled up, blame the scrutineer, organising club, the rules, MA and anything else.
Sure there are exceptions, we are talking about volunteers doing an onerous job.
As Michael says, when you enter you are accepting the rules relevant to that meeting. Don't like it, don't enter.Then rationally put a proposal through the channels re the change you want to make.
I have been involved in organising MX events off and on for 50 years, and there is nothing new in all this.
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TBM I put a proposal up last year which is now in the MOMS, addressing your point re frames. My proposal was for Pre60 and Pre65 as in that period most scramble bikes were a mix and match, with the exception of a few new production 250 two strokes.
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Michael articulates beautifully what are in essence our rules as they sit right now but with a little more latitude. While I've always been a stickler for period integrity I think it's time that we loosened up some of the rules as long as any changes aren't in contradiction of the historic feel of the period we're racing in. Absurd situations like the RM125 swingarm debacle, the bolt up CZ hub situation for pre 65 and other pedantic interpretations of the rules would be a thing of the past (theoretically ::)). I still believe that the period look of a bike from 5 paces must be maintained which would outlaw non period specific alloy swingarms and possibly some billet triple clamps. In a nutshell, I think a bike should look like it's been transported by time machine from the period it was first raced.
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TBM I put a proposal up last year which is now in the MOMS, addressing your point re frames. My proposal was for Pre60 and Pre65 as in that period most scramble bikes were a mix and match, with the exception of a few new production 250 two strokes.
Col, I know you put in a lot of effort to make changes where you think they might benefit the sport as a whole. We had a similar conversation over WA at the 15th anniversary.
Can I just add though, even manufacturers were changing set ups of shock position, engine position and swingarms mid way through a race season. All in an effort to get a better handling bike. Sometimes it worked, other times it went back to shed!
I guess all I am attempting to get across is that if a bike frame/engine complies with year of manufacture, suspension travel limits, similar brake set up and has the correct "silhouette" about it, then I feel it should be good to go. All this hooha about shock position, swingarms etc is just that....HOOHA. It doesn't always make for a better bike, but, the rider/builder likes it and it looks the part. Above all else, it gets another bike and rider into the mix.
Firko,
I do also believe that the bike should appear to have traveled from a time way back when. As long as ANY part on the machine was available in the day from either the manufacturer or aftermarket guru, it should be good to go. Sure, "that part" may be as rare as hens teeth and not everyone will have "it", but does it matter if it complies and can be proved to be era specific? Even back in '74, racers were able to lay down shocks and change clamps etc. Kits were available to make the job easier. A whole aftermarket industry was created around trying to make a good bike better, or so the average punter felt as though they might be able to compete with the factory and team bikes. And it is still that way today.
Yes, rules are rules. I just feel that perhaps VMX as a stand alone sport (past time) might benefit from a little bit of a loosen up in the rule department, all in an effort to get more "bums on seats".
Cheers,
Mark
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Well I popped in at Yanakie (Viper) today, and thought it was brilliant. Great atmosphere in the pits, competitive but friendly, got some good advice for my RM's - just the sort of event I'm looking for. Seems my observations at HBBB might have been a minority.
Some lovely HL500s to ogle too.
Thanks to those who took the time to chat today (Mick, Paul, Lawrence, Allan - they're the names I remember - who knows if they frequent this forum), and I'm eager as to get a bike out on track now.
And thanks all for your contributions above - seems we are more agreed than divided in our wants.
Cheers all
Geoff
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Sorry to drag up an old thread, but thought it the best place to post this.
I know this engineering lecturer, very intelligent guy, had some wise things to say about project management, and had condensed some of these pearls of wisdom into catchy slogans. The actual points he made are irrelevant to this argument - it was more how he delivered them.
Just like Tony Abbott's "Stop the boats" mantra, this guy believed that the more he repeated his slogans, the more likely people would remember and act on his words. What he failed to notice (or maybe refused to notice) was that eventually a saturation point would be reached beyond which the audience just signed off. From there, the more he repeated his arguments, the more they were dismissed, and the more of a parody he became of himself.
Which brings me to these forums. There are some well thought out opinions posted here, and some rather fiercely contested arguments. Often I will see both sides of the argument, and feel wiser for having watched on. But often it seems the desire to share an opinion becomes overwhelmed by the desire to win an argument - and the whole thing then descends into the kind of repetition parody I mentioned above.
I know there are shortcomings in rules and events being cancelled and bike prices dropping and assorted other problems afflicting our pastime. I know what a few of the regulars will say on each of these points. I wholly respect their arguments and their right to say it. What drives me to despair is having to see these same arguments appearing over, and over, and over...
When the same argument is put numerous times, maybe with a word changed here and a nuance there, I start to wonder whether all this invested energy is about making our pastime better, or whether it is about self gratification. Surely if it is about the former, we would have some sense of when our arguments are becoming harmful to our community.
To me VMX has two conflicting images:
- a community of people enjoying a shared passion for old bikes, laid back racing and a common delusion of how fast we used to be
- a community of stubborn men engaged in mind numbingly circular arguments about nothing
If anything will kill off VMX it will be the latter. But until it does, I'm going back to the resto thread to check out the Maico porn, and Johnny O's KX400 thread.
And to fully compromise my position on repetitive arguments, I'll finish by repeating that I still think that Johnny O's track should be called the O-Ring :)
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Very good points! Our local post-74 racing was hurt be bickering and head butting. As a side note it also brought down the value of our machines, because there was nowhere to race them.
:(
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If it weren't for the human interaction, this forum would be great! ;D
Good points for sure.
Johnny's O-ring sounds a little to 'back door' ish to me.
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In a nutshell, I think a bike should look like it's been transported by time machine from the period it was first raced.
I generally avoid all such topics as I'm not active in the racing scene and don't feel qualified to comment, but this one line sums up what I find interesting about old dirt bikes.
I think most racers out there are more concerned with just riding and performance improvement as opposed to having any interest in the historic aspect of the bikes and the racing.
How many do you see going to the trouble of trying to 'look the part'?
I'm not saying this is wrong, it is racing after all, it just means that I personally find very little to get excited about at the average VMX race meeting.
So I find myself enjoying more time in the shed exploring the technical aspects of older bikes and the older I get, the earlier my period of interest becomes.
Although, most of my racing was from the late 70's to the early 2000's, I find little of historical interest in anything beyond about 1980.
How any of this relates to the topic is beyond me, but that one line really struck a chord with me and I just wanted to comment. ::)
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In a nutshell, I think a bike should look like it's been transported by time machine from the period it was first raced
Looking at my above quote some might assume that I'm calling for all bikes to be as they left the factory. While I give full support to those who follow the factory stock philosophy, what I really meant was that bikes should accurately reflect the period from which it was raced, allowing for period correct modifications and accessories. If my repeated mantra of period integrity puts me in the position of my becoming a parody of myself, so be it. I think that the period integrity philosophy is the most important aspect of what our sport's all about and feel that we need to be periodically reminded of it.
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Even with the rules we have in place the RM B alloy arm debacle ( as it was earlied titled) is adjudicated on, wholly and solely by one man and one man only. Forget MA. Forget Classic Sports Dirt Committee.
I know this for a fact. A simple phone call to the head scrutineer at the upcoming CMX titles told me so. He requested a photo of it. I took a photo and sent it to him. He said the photo is not too clear however I think it has been modified and the brake stay lug has been welded on Post 78. How he came to determine this I have absolutely no idea. When I enquired about his assumption his reply was I will have to ask the one and only man ( name withheld ) who can pass it.
Anyway I will have it with me at CMX. Get your $70 ready
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Please excuse me for pushing my own agenda, but it seems a lot of the good posts on here lately come from guys named Geoff :P ;D
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Who???? ???
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slow day Geoff - grasping at straws???
he he!
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Yes we need rules, but the current rules are flawed with regard to getting more people involved. Some common sense should prevail, but there is a total lack of common sense world wide let alone in VMX racing. The following is just one example: I would love to race a national meeting in pre '78 but bugger me dead if I'm reducing the suspension on my dead stock 1977 Husky CR390 (as it was produced) to meet the current rules, when the guy on the RM370 next to me can have a set of brand new, built yesterday Ohlins shocks with 40 clicks of rebound & compression adjustment. Yes I know I can have them too but I don't want them, I just want to ride my stock standard 1977 model motorcycle. Doesn't seem right IMO.
K
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Yes we need rules, but the current rules are flawed with regard to getting more people involved. Some common sense should prevail, but there is a total lack of common sense world wide let alone in VMX racing. The following is just one example: I would love to race a national meeting in pre '78 but bugger me dead if I'm reducing the suspension on my dead stock 1977 Husky CR390 (as it was produced) to meet the current rules, when the guy on the RM370 next to me can have a set of brand new, built yesterday Ohlins shocks with 40 clicks of rebound & compression adjustment. Yes I know I can have them too but I don't want them, I just want to ride my stock standard 1977 model motorcycle. Doesn't seem right IMO.
K
Not a big deal to me bigk, ive got a RM370 that I fitted a fox fork kit to improve it and bring it up to 9" travel, now I've got a 77 390 Husky that I have to pull the forks apart and fit travel limiters... Six of one, half dozen of the other.
If you want to race pre 78, and I do, it's not such a big ask when building a bike compared to all the other work required.
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BigK, I agree with you, if the Husky meets the cut off within the rules and it was manufactured to the correct original specification then it should not be changed.
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It's not a big deal in the real world John but it's the principle. As the current rules stand I can modify some (or all) brand bikes with all sorts of modern, performance enhancing equipment but can't race a standard model of other makes. In pre '78 racing you should be able to race a bike in the configuration it was produced & raced in 1977. If said bike had a real or perceived "advantage" in 1977, it should be the same today. Whoever thought up the rules must have had a Honda or Suzuki back then as most of the other '77 bikes exceed the suspension rules. It's just dumb in my mind, and I'm certainly not saying my mind is infallible.
K
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Whoever thought up the rules must have had a Honda or Suzuki back then as most of the other '77 bikes exceed the suspension rules.
K
[/quote]
That's what I'm thinking
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I know it's the principal Michael but since I came into vintage racing over 20years ago there has been a rule in place stating pre 75 bikes must have no more than 4" rear wheel travel so people with 74 Maicos, Huskys and YZB Yamahas have had to modify their rear ends and shorten the travel to comply so it's nothing new...
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BigK, I agree with you, if the Husky meets the cut off within the rules and it was manufactured to the correct original specification then it should not be changed.
So what about the 74 Maico, Husky and YZB Yamaha that have to have the rear suspension modified to comply in pre 75, do you want to change those rules too??
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Pre75's allowed to have 7 inches travel up front unreal! My pre75 gets by with 3.75 front travel and 2.5 rear, and its engine alone weights more than most complete 125s ..... Then again I got legal electric start and a disk brake ;)
Just avoiding making any personal thoughts or comments on the eternal " Bike eligibility " sagas.
PS There's four "i"s in eligibility :) inane, intractable, imperfect, idiocy
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I have a tendency to agree with Big K statement on this one, as the bike was ahead of their game compared to others.
Sadly the rules are rules and if you want to play in the sand pit with other's you have to abide by them.
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It sucks to re under engineer a bike
I have a 77 GP husky that I have reduced it's travel so I can race the Nats the only reason my KTM complies is it's based of an enduro model and does not have the 10.5 MC travel.
Fewer bikes comply than dont in regards to Pre 78 suspension limits. The irony is pre 78 should have no suspension limits as all bikes were on the very limits in regards to frame design in 77 and adding any more suspension travel just f*cked up the handling and slowed them down. Im very happy to line up with a 12inch RM 370 any time.
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BigK, I agree with you, if the Husky meets the cut off within the rules and it was manufactured to the correct original specification then it should not be changed.
So what about the 74 Maico, Husky and YZB Yamaha that have to have the rear suspension modified to comply in pre 75, do you want to change those rules too??
Maico and YZb, they where manufactured with the year of 1974, they should be aloud to be ridden without change. The yz 250, 360 B where on sale here in Australia at easter time 1974.
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so - as has been said earlier I think - the circle goes around. We have had this debate any number of times on this forum - all have an opinion and voice that opinion but nobody does anything about getting together to make a change.
I have a YZB and don't like limiting the travel - however the current rules state I must so since I can't change ther rules I abide by the rules.
I understand what you are saying guys but the continual, repetitive nature of complaints on here is going to do nothing than make it clear who sits in what camp!
Is anybody on here cluey enough to put together a propsoal for changing the suspension limits (for a start) which people like myself can support and we can actually do something rather than talk?
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I too think it is ridiculous that you have to modify a standard factory delivered bike so that other models are more competitive with them.
What we must not forget is that most of the non LTR bikes of say 74 were modified to give more rear wheel travel and were a match for the advanced LTR models so the issue was solved until all the manufacturers caught up. A lot of races were won in 74 on bikes that came from the factory as non LTR but modified to be competitive. So unless someone comes up with a workable solution to allow non LTR bikes to be allowed the same maximum wheel travel as the 74 LTR/monoshock models including the era frame modifications then I guess the current system is the only way to go.
Stan.
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Please can we avoid another of these tedious suspension discussions please boys? Until someone puts up a well worded and researched proposal the pre 78 and pre 75 suspension limits will remain what they are. All these online discussions achieve is to get people riled up. I personally disagree with the pre 78 suspension regs but until they're challenged......cop it sweet.
As far as the pre 75 suspension regs are concerned, the Maico, Husky, CCM, KTM and YZ-B were never originally intended to be in pre '75. Dick Mann told me that when the California Vintage Racing Group (later AHRMA)developed the original pre 75 regs (that ours were originally based on), they (wrongly) thought that the LTR Maico and Yamaha YZ-Bs and other longer travel bikes to be 1975 models and not in the mix. Seeing that the suspension travels hadn't increased in the 20 years leading up to 1975 they adopted the 7" X 4" limits that the Brits had used for pre 65 motocross since the early 80's. When they found that there were a small number of bikes that exceeded the 7/4 limits, rather than banning the bikes altogether, they decided to allow them in but with the proviso that the rear suspension be limited to 4''. At first there was a shitstorm of protest but eventually racers settled in and accepted the limits, both here and in the USA. There's hardly been a whisper of protest ever since. The Poms went with pre '74 instead of pre '75 to avoid the situation.
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Hi all,
For those who enjoy a little irony, please read my original post in this thread and also the one I wrote a day or so back - and then note the discussion that followed. I shant repeat my point for fear of contradicting my argument about repeatedly arguing the same points...
I apologize if the following is self indulgent or self important - but this thread is about perspective, after all. Today has been the best day of my life, thanks to an exceptional bunch of friends, and I think the following is relevent to the intent of this thread.
Four years ago I was diagnosed with Parkinsons disease, and the disease has progressed to the point where I have recently had to leave my engineering job. I am 46. I struggle to dress myself, I can barely stand without toppling over, and my hand motor control is shot (I am typing this one fingered). I have joined this community after buying an old Sprite from Dave Alsop, and being swept up in his enthusiasm for the sport. (Thanks Dave!) I now own something like twelve bikes in varying states of repair (carefully disassembled and stashed around the house and environs so the CFO thinks I only have five...). I love it.
Today I was invited to a mates workshop for a quiet barby lunch - and was met by a workshop full of people for a surprise party. Unbeknown to me, a group of 170 friends, family, old workmates and former students have pulled together to pool resources to restore my old 1970 Escort, to be presented to me by the end of the year. Today at our first work session, we stripped it to a bare shell, ready for sandblasting. I am still utterly floored by this.
I am not fully sure of the exact point I want to make here, but today I was fortunate to be on the receiving end of something bloody special. And I was part of a team of people working together on a common project, and having a bloody good time doing it. No arguing, no whinging - it was all about doing, delivering, enjoying.
VMX quibbles are first world problems. Sure, try to fix them, but lets not define our sport by the arguments we have about them. In the scheme of things, our quibbles are trivial. Arent we doing this for fun?
And can we at least have a laugh at our own expense - that this thread about the tedium of eligibility arguments is being filled with eligibility arguments...
Enjoy life while you still can
Cheers
Geoff
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The real question is whether Pre-75 is about the year 1974, or the 4" of rear travel era.
Until you answer that, you're pissing in the wind.
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Thanks for sharing that, Geoff.
An excellent reminder to us all about what's important.
I'd like to think that this forum isn't an accurate representation of the real VMX world, but as the negativity and general silliness on here seems to take over the positive stuff, I worry that anyone who looks here with a view to joining the sport might decide it would be more fun playing hopscotch in a minefield.......... :-\
Can anyone involved in historic road racing tell me if it suffers from the same problems?
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Can anyone involved in historic road racing tell me if it suffers from the same problems?
Sort answer YES
They are far worse than us.
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I just get totally confused by the whole thing. I can't even understand how they came up with the rules I always though "Pre" meant exactly that. Prove it was produced "Pre" then it's legal and if you have an extra 1 inch of suspension good luck to you, would be so much simpler. THe "Evo" and Pre85 classes, back in the day you weren't seperated into classes, you rode what you had.
Regulations are needed but if it's "Pre" then let them ride it, because in the day they did!!
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so - as has been said earlier I think - the circle goes around. We have had this debate any number of times on this forum - all have an opinion and voice that opinion but nobody does anything about getting together to make a change.
Apathy...the great Australian way ::)
Personally, I think that some type of consensus put to racers ( MA license holders) to actually find out what, if any, rules need to be changed could be one way of making change happen. It can not be open ended questions that require writing an essay, but a simple, Yes, No , Don't care affair. This way the numbers do the talking. If the majority want/don't want change then that is the way it shall be. I strongly doubt that MA will ever put out a consensus though......
Failing that, maybe some new blood on the commission might "freshen" the rules up a bit. There is a process for requesting rule changes but whether that request meets an open mind or not is entirely debatable.
I just get totally confused by the whole thing. I can't even understand how they came up with the rules I always though "Pre" meant exactly that. Prove it was produced "Pre" then it's legal and if you have an extra 1 inch of suspension good luck to you, would be so much simpler. THe "Evo" and Pre85 classes, back in the day you weren't seperated into classes, you rode what you had.
Regulations are needed but if it's "Pre" then let them ride it, because in the day they did!!
EXACTLY !
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Can anyone involved in historic road racing tell me if it suffers from the same problems?
The majority of eligiblity problems in VMX are hypotheticals brought up on this forum. The reality is that the rules we've got now are quite adequate and there are very few people deliberately fudging the boundaries these days. Road racing is a nightmare despite their using the so called 'perfect' log book system.
The real question is whether Pre-75 is about the year 1974, or the 4" of rear travel era.
Until you answer that, you're pissing in the wind.
Both. There, I've answered your question so I guess my pants remain dry.
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Can anyone involved in historic road racing tell me if it suffers from the same problems?
Sort answer YES
They are far worse than us.
Shit...... :-\ ;D ;D ;D
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Our current rules are mostly OK.
Our sport has never seen one particular model or make dominate (except maybe the pre 75 125)
All the Nats Ive been to are dominated by riders not bikes.
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Awesome story bigbird, that's what it's all about....having fun, enjoying friends and doing something you love....but some people cant do that, they spend there time being negative and stirring the pot so to speak...lifes too short for that sort of shit....by the way, I type with one finger and all mine work and I bet half the guys on here do the same....put some progress pickies up of the Escort as you do it....a mate is doing the same but making a rally car replica with a 2 litre and 5 speed, big flares...bla, bla. Good luck.
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Maybe it's just my "issues" with people attempting to tell me what I can & can't do but for some (like me) it's too hard to comply with some of the rules when your mind is screaming they are stupid. When things get hard, it's no fun & no fun means you look elsewhere.
K
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Back in the early seventies a mate had a Mk 1 twin cam Escort that was fitted with a Garrett turbocharger. He also owned an XTGT Falcon fitted with a Boss 302 and two turbos that was truly frightening. The little Escort was almost as scary a car as the Falcon but he couldn't keep rods inside the block.....maybe the 9k RPM flat changes had something to do with it ::). While it was running it was a very impressive little car though.
That yarn was a touching example of Aussie mateship and camaraderie Big Bird. You've got a good group of friends there mate.
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Can anyone involved in historic road racing tell me if it suffers from the same problems?
Sort answer YES
They are far worse than us.
ah well,can only bite my tongue for so long,been historic rr most of my life,most eligibility problems were long ago sorted out,basically log books came in!!,lost quite a few "older" regulars,(the couldn't be bothered,thats why shitloads of "retirees" turnup at broadford,no regs,no rules,just ride),now most of time theres no issues,can't speak for later periods 5/6,pre moderns whatever,but all's good in earlier stuff,think it's just typical of some newer era people pushing their barrows, same across all diciplines,seems later the era,proportionally the more arguments till it sorts itself out (sorta) ;D,just my observations, :P
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As we get older, there is an increased reluctance to embrace change, even if it is for the better. That is why rules for a sport involving older people should be well thought out before being put in a rulebook, as there is bugger all chance of getting them amended later, (even if they are wrong) because you will never get everyone to agree. The problem with the MA pre '78 rules is that they were copied word for word from the AHRMA "Historic class" rules, presumably because no-one here had the imagination to write up sensible rules for this class. Just be thankful that the AHRMA "Ultima class" rules were not copied for MA's pre '85 class, as they are written to try and change history and create a imaginary level playing field, where you can race an '84 CR500 Honda or '83/'84 KX500 so long as it doesn't have the standard disc brake front end. The thought of an '84 KX500 running around in pre '85 class with a drum brake front end just seems totally wrong to me.
Maybe I just have "issues" with authority, as there always seems to have been rules that I thought were plain stupid, even way back when I first started racing. I can still remember reluctantly having to rivet rectangular numberplates over the oval ones on my brand new bikes, because that was the rule at the time. Which genius in MA ( or ACU , as it was back then) came up with that brilliant idea ?
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Which genius in MA ( or ACU , as it was back then) came up with that brilliant idea ?
Arthur Blizzard. He also banned nylon pants as a fire risk.
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When I see photo's of those early days with the square front number plates I just chringe....god there ugly...Arthur Blizzard...what a genius....what state did he come from Firko?...or should I say what state of mind was he in?....no relation to Nathan I wonder?...LOL.
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When I see photo's of those early days with the square front number plates I just chringe....god there ugly...Arthur Blizzard...what a genius....what state did he come from Firko?...or should I say what state of mind was he in?....no relation to Nathan I wonder?...LOL.
Not only did we have to run square front plates but in 79 we had to run them on the side as well! I had to bolt square plates over the top of the side covers on my YZ400f!
In 1980 I bought a pair of JT nylons from the US and wasn't allowed to use them because of a fire risk!
ACU.. Full of genius's!!
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When I see photo's of those early days with the square front number plates I just chringe....god there ugly...Arthur Blizzard...what a genius....what state did he come from Firko?...or should I say what state of mind was he in?....no relation to Nathan I wonder?...LOL.
None whatsoever.
That sort of "let's make the dirty ingrates' lives harder" shit is the shit that I spend my life trying to stop...
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Let's not forget that Arthur Blizzard did a Hell of a lot of work for motor cycle sport for a bloody long time!
Its a pity there are not a few more blokes of this world that keep turning up and doing things when others 'just want to race'.
pancho.
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Hi all,
For those who enjoy a little irony, please read my original post in this thread and also the one I wrote a day or so back - and then note the discussion that followed. I shant repeat my point for fear of contradicting my argument about repeatedly arguing the same points...
I apologize if the following is self indulgent or self important - but this thread is about perspective, after all. Today has been the best day of my life, thanks to an exceptional bunch of friends, and I think the following is relevent to the intent of this thread.
Four years ago I was diagnosed with Parkinsons disease, and the disease has progressed to the point where I have recently had to leave my engineering job. I am 46. I struggle to dress myself, I can barely stand without toppling over, and my hand motor control is shot (I am typing this one fingered). I have joined this community after buying an old Sprite from Dave Alsop, and being swept up in his enthusiasm for the sport. (Thanks Dave!) I now own something like twelve bikes in varying states of repair (carefully disassembled and stashed around the house and environs so the CFO thinks I only have five...). I love it.
Today I was invited to a mates workshop for a quiet barby lunch - and was met by a workshop full of people for a surprise party. Unbeknown to me, a group of 170 friends, family, old workmates and former students have pulled together to pool resources to restore my old 1970 Escort, to be presented to me by the end of the year. Today at our first work session, we stripped it to a bare shell, ready for sandblasting. I am still utterly floored by this.
I am not fully sure of the exact point I want to make here, but today I was fortunate to be on the receiving end of something bloody special. And I was part of a team of people working together on a common project, and having a bloody good time doing it. No arguing, no whinging - it was all about doing, delivering, enjoying.
VMX quibbles are first world problems. Sure, try to fix them, but lets not define our sport by the arguments we have about them. In the scheme of things, our quibbles are trivial. Arent we doing this for fun?
And can we at least have a laugh at our own expense - that this thread about the tedium of eligibility arguments is being filled with eligibility arguments...
Enjoy life while you still can
Cheers
Geoff
Wow Geoff. A sobering thought to be in your situation at your age. I'm also 46.
Great story regarding the escort and having good friends and family.
Thanks for sharing and all the best.
On a side note regarding the rules/ eligibility and being told what to do.
I have always bought/ restored bikes to fit an era. So easy to comply. It's only hard work in your head IMO.
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Let's not forget that Arthur Blizzard did a Hell of a lot of work for motor cycle sport for a bloody long time!
Its a pity there are not a few more blokes of this world that keep turning up and doing things when others 'just want to race'.
pancho.
His mrs is still there, I rang the race office for the historic roadrace nats at Eastern Creek last year and Jan answered the phone, she was the race secretary. Arthur may have been a bit misguided at times on the way through, but he is quite fondly remembered by the NSW roadrace blokes, and together they did knock up a daunting number of days working voluntarily at race meetings, so a lot of people should be grateful for that at least.
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Yes, these square number plates wern't pretty, even on these!
(http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx325/dalesween/YMJ_1_7501_zpsf7625b0e.jpg) (http://s768.photobucket.com/user/dalesween/media/YMJ_1_7501_zpsf7625b0e.jpg.html)
cheers Dale.
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Hi all,
For those who enjoy a little irony, please read my original post in this thread and also the one I wrote a day or so back - and then note the discussion that followed. I shant repeat my point for fear of contradicting my argument about repeatedly arguing the same points...
I apologize if the following is self indulgent or self important - but this thread is about perspective, after all. Today has been the best day of my life, thanks to an exceptional bunch of friends, and I think the following is relevent to the intent of this thread.
Four years ago I was diagnosed with Parkinsons disease, and the disease has progressed to the point where I have recently had to leave my engineering job. I am 46. I struggle to dress myself, I can barely stand without toppling over, and my hand motor control is shot (I am typing this one fingered). I have joined this community after buying an old Sprite from Dave Alsop, and being swept up in his enthusiasm for the sport. (Thanks Dave!) I now own something like twelve bikes in varying states of repair (carefully disassembled and stashed around the house and environs so the CFO thinks I only have five...). I love it.
Today I was invited to a mates workshop for a quiet barby lunch - and was met by a workshop full of people for a surprise party. Unbeknown to me, a group of 170 friends, family, old workmates and former students have pulled together to pool resources to restore my old 1970 Escort, to be presented to me by the end of the year. Today at our first work session, we stripped it to a bare shell, ready for sandblasting. I am still utterly floored by this.
I am not fully sure of the exact point I want to make here, but today I was fortunate to be on the receiving end of something bloody special. And I was part of a team of people working together on a common project, and having a bloody good time doing it. No arguing, no whinging - it was all about doing, delivering, enjoying.
VMX quibbles are first world problems. Sure, try to fix them, but lets not define our sport by the arguments we have about them. In the scheme of things, our quibbles are trivial. Arent we doing this for fun?
And can we at least have a laugh at our own expense - that this thread about the tedium of eligibility arguments is being filled with eligibility arguments...
Enjoy life while you still can
Cheers
Geoff
Great to read you and your mates are staying positive Geoff. I can only imagine how hard it must be to accept what you are going through. You are right. All the little perceived problems with VMX are trivial when life throws grenades at us.
On a bright note, at least you have a great group of mates around. Your story reminds me of my younger days hotting up Escort panel vans with mates. Geez we had some fun. Drive in movies, girls, funny tobacco, cheech and chong......
The best Van we did had a later twin cam RS2000 motor and gearbox, twin side draught Webers and extractors going into twin side pipes. Rolling on fat Hot wire mags of course. Ha, I remember we set fire to the carpet in the front welding the brackets for the side pipes! You've never seen 3 teenagers move so quick getting anything we could to douse the fire. The back was decked out with black velvet roof and sides, red carpet on the deck with scatter cushions and 4 clarion speakers powered by a Pioneer stereo with graphic equalizer. By the time we finished doing all the mods, we run out of funds for paint so we painted it with brushes and black enamal paint! The paint was still wet when we drove to Matraville drive in that night ::) One of the girls put her initials on the rear door which caused my mate to go bananas..... He was proud of the paint job!
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CHEERS Big Bird.