Bike eligiblity, arguments and perspective

[Stan S]

I too think it is ridiculous that you have to modify a standard factory delivered bike so that other models are more competitive with them.
What we must not forget is that most of the non LTR bikes of say 74 were modified to give more rear wheel travel and were a match for the advanced LTR models so the issue was solved until all the manufacturers caught up. A lot of races were won in 74 on bikes that came from the factory as non LTR but modified to be competitive. So unless someone comes up with a workable solution to allow non LTR bikes to be allowed the same maximum wheel travel as the 74 LTR/monoshock models including the era frame modifications then I guess the current system is the only way to go.

Stan. 

[firko]

Please can we avoid another of these tedious suspension discussions please boys? Until someone puts up a well worded and researched proposal the pre 78 and pre 75 suspension limits will remain what they are. All these online discussions achieve is to get people riled up. I personally disagree with the pre 78 suspension regs but until they're challenged......cop it sweet.

 As far as the pre 75 suspension regs are concerned, the Maico, Husky, CCM, KTM and YZ-B were never originally intended to be in pre '75. Dick Mann told me that when the California Vintage Racing Group (later AHRMA)developed the original pre 75 regs (that ours were originally based on), they (wrongly) thought that the LTR Maico and Yamaha YZ-Bs and other longer travel bikes to be 1975 models and not in the mix. Seeing that the suspension travels hadn't increased in the 20 years leading up to 1975 they adopted the 7" X 4" limits that the Brits had used for pre 65 motocross since the early 80's.  When they found that there were a small number of bikes that exceeded the 7/4 limits, rather than banning the bikes altogether, they decided to allow them in but with the proviso that the rear suspension be limited to 4''. At first there was a shitstorm of protest but eventually racers settled in and accepted the limits, both here and in the USA. There's hardly been a whisper of protest ever since. The Poms went with pre '74 instead of pre '75 to avoid the situation.

[Big Bird]

Hi all,

For those who enjoy a little irony, please read my original post in this thread and also the one I wrote a day or so back - and then note the discussion that followed.  I shant repeat my point for fear of  contradicting my argument about repeatedly arguing the same points...

I apologize if the following is self indulgent or self important - but this thread is about perspective, after all.  Today has been the best day of my life, thanks to an exceptional bunch of friends, and I think the following is relevent to the intent of this thread. 

Four years ago I was diagnosed with Parkinsons disease, and the disease has progressed to the point where I have recently had to leave my engineering job.  I am 46.   I struggle to dress myself, I can barely stand without toppling over, and my hand motor control is shot (I am typing this one fingered).  I have joined this community after buying an old Sprite from Dave Alsop, and being swept up in his enthusiasm for the sport.  (Thanks Dave!)  I now own something like twelve bikes in varying states of repair (carefully disassembled and stashed around the house and environs so the CFO thinks I only have five...).  I love it.

Today I was invited to a mates workshop for a quiet barby lunch - and was met by a workshop full of people for a surprise  party.  Unbeknown to me, a  group of 170 friends, family, old workmates and former students have pulled together to pool resources to restore my old 1970 Escort, to be presented to me by the end of the year.  Today at our first work session, we stripped it to a bare shell, ready for sandblasting.  I am still utterly floored by this.

I am not fully  sure of the exact point I want to make here, but today I was fortunate to be on the receiving end of something bloody special.  And I was part of a team of people working together on a common project, and having a bloody good time doing it.  No arguing, no whinging - it was all about doing, delivering, enjoying.

VMX quibbles are first world problems.  Sure, try to fix them, but lets not define our sport by the arguments we have about them.   In the scheme of things, our quibbles are trivial.  Arent we doing this for fun?

And can we at least have a laugh at our own expense - that this thread about the tedium of eligibility arguments is being filled with eligibility arguments...

Enjoy life while you still can

Cheers

Geoff

[Nathan S]

The real question is whether Pre-75 is about the year 1974, or the 4" of rear travel era.
Until you answer that, you're pissing in the wind.

[Tony T]

Thanks for sharing that, Geoff.
An excellent reminder to us all about what's important.
I'd like to think that this forum isn't an accurate representation of the real VMX world, but as the negativity and general silliness on here seems to take over the positive stuff, I worry that anyone who looks here with a view to joining the sport might decide it would be more fun playing hopscotch in a minefield.......... 

Can anyone involved in historic road racing tell me if it suffers from the same problems?

[Slakewell]

Can anyone involved in historic road racing tell me if it suffers from the same problems?

Sort answer YES

They are far worse than us.

[Tossa]

I just get totally confused by the whole thing.  I can't even understand how they came up with the rules I always though "Pre" meant exactly that.  Prove it was produced "Pre" then it's legal and if you have an extra 1 inch of suspension good luck to you, would be so much simpler.  THe "Evo" and Pre85 classes, back in the day you weren't seperated into classes, you rode what you had.

Regulations are needed but if it's "Pre" then let them ride it, because in the day they did!!

[FourstrokeForever]

so - as has been said earlier I think - the circle goes around.  We have had this debate any number of times on this forum - all have an opinion and voice that opinion but nobody does anything about getting together to make a change.

Apathy...the great Australian way 

Personally, I think that some type of consensus put to racers ( MA license holders) to actually find out what, if any, rules need to be changed could be one way of making change happen. It can not be open ended questions that require writing an essay, but a simple, Yes, No , Don't care affair. This way the numbers do the talking. If the majority want/don't want change then that is the way it shall be. I strongly doubt that MA will ever put out a consensus though......

Failing that, maybe some new blood on the commission might "freshen" the rules up a bit. There is a process for requesting rule changes but whether that request meets an open mind or not is entirely debatable.

I just get totally confused by the whole thing.  I can't even understand how they came up with the rules I always though "Pre" meant exactly that.  Prove it was produced "Pre" then it's legal and if you have an extra 1 inch of suspension good luck to you, would be so much simpler.  THe "Evo" and Pre85 classes, back in the day you weren't seperated into classes, you rode what you had.

Regulations are needed but if it's "Pre" then let them ride it, because in the day they did!!

EXACTLY !

[firko]

Can anyone involved in historic road racing tell me if it suffers from the same problems?

The majority of eligiblity problems in VMX are hypotheticals brought up on this forum. The reality is that the rules we've got now are quite adequate and there are very few people deliberately fudging the boundaries these days. Road racing is a nightmare despite their using the so called 'perfect' log book system.

The real question is whether Pre-75 is about the year 1974, or the 4" of rear travel era.
Until you answer that, you're pissing in the wind.

Both. There, I've answered your question so I guess my pants remain dry.

[Tony T]

Can anyone involved in historic road racing tell me if it suffers from the same problems?

Sort answer YES

They are far worse than us.

Shit......       

[Slakewell]

Our current rules are mostly OK.
Our sport has never seen one particular model or make dominate (except maybe the pre 75 125)
All the Nats Ive been to are dominated by riders not bikes.

[Davey Crocket]

Awesome story bigbird, that's what it's all about....having fun, enjoying friends and doing something you love....but some people cant do that, they spend there time being negative and stirring the pot so to speak...lifes too short for that sort of shit....by the way, I type with one finger and all mine work and I bet half the guys on here do the same....put some progress pickies up of the Escort as you do it....a mate is doing the same but making a rally car replica with a 2 litre and 5 speed, big flares...bla, bla. Good luck.

[bigk]

Maybe it's just my "issues" with people attempting to tell me what I can & can't do but for some (like me) it's too hard to comply with some of the rules when your mind is screaming they are stupid. When things get hard, it's no fun & no fun means you look elsewhere.
K

[firko]

Back in the early seventies a mate had a Mk 1 twin cam Escort that was fitted with a Garrett turbocharger. He also owned an XTGT Falcon fitted with a Boss 302 and two turbos that was truly frightening. The little Escort was almost as scary a car as the Falcon but he couldn't keep rods inside the block.....maybe the 9k RPM flat changes had something to do with it . While it was running it was a very impressive little car though.

That yarn was a touching example of Aussie mateship and camaraderie Big Bird. You've got a good group of friends there mate.

[matcho mick]

Can anyone involved in historic road racing tell me if it suffers from the same problems?

Sort answer YES

They are far worse than us.

ah well,can only bite my tongue for so long,been historic rr most of my life,most eligibility problems were long ago sorted out,basically log books came in!!,lost quite a few "older" regulars,(the couldn't be bothered,thats why shitloads of "retirees" turnup at broadford,no regs,no rules,just ride),now most of time theres no issues,can't speak for later periods 5/6,pre moderns whatever,but all's good in earlier stuff,think it's just typical of some newer era people pushing their barrows, same across all diciplines,seems later the era,proportionally the more arguments till it sorts itself out (sorta) ,just my observations,