OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: popeye on December 10, 2012, 05:43:39 pm
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In your opinion what bikes came along and changed bikes for you???
For me it was things like, l remember riding my first YZ 80 E WOW, bit different to anything ld been on,
XR Hondas from 84-85-86. 350-500-600. Then came the biggest change of all for me was the 98 WR 400.
On the road it was things like the GP Replicas RZ500 then the next year the RG500, the first 4 valve Duke in 88 and then the 916 which beside a modern bike today doesn't look out of place.
I haven't listed any twin shock bikes as l never had one in the day, parents couldn't afford to buy us a bike...
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Personally BSA Bantam my first bike ;D
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e204/tmbill/bantam.jpg)
CR 250 and 125 Elsinores ,(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e204/tmbill/74CR125Elsinore29.jpg)
a real racer for everybody :) Remember when the 125 first come out , round a corner on your now very obsolete Bantam and theres at least 2 of them laid on their sides cos they had loaded up ;D
RM 125S (http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e204/tmbill/Bills%20bikes/rms001.jpg)
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e204/tmbill/Bills%20bikes/RmS2004.jpg)
RM 125X (http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e204/tmbill/Bills%20bikes/Billsbikes2009148.jpg)
both made everything before them obsolete :) I remember it well ;)
1982 on Maicos(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e204/tmbill/1982maico.jpg)
WTF happened ??? went from the clubmans favorite from 1978 to 1981 (http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e204/tmbill/1978maico.jpg)
to a frame or shock breaking lemons until their total demise :'(
YZF 400 (http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e204/tmbill/yamaha400yzf1999.jpg)
Turned a fun competitive affordable sport into a Shit shadow of its former self , run at the top level by meglomaniac arseoles(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e204/tmbill/arseoles.jpg)
and filters down at club level to talentless pri madonas >:(
On the upside the arrival of the YZF400 and its succsessors stengthend my passion for VMX and gave Maicos a 2nd coming ;D
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On the road it was things like the GP Replicas RZ500 then the next year the RG500
Obviously you're a young'n. ;D
For me it was the Z9.....
oh, and the XL250. :-[
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Suzuki RM125X Full Floater... just magic
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Suzuki RM125X Full Floater... just magic
I remember Tony Mcniece racing a pre proddy 125X at i think Hawkstone park in 1980 , the bloody thing was like cheating ;D i think Beamish sold out of the first shipment long before they were even in the country . If you wern't on an X in 81 you were nowhere :o
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e204/tmbill/Bills%20bikes/Billsbikes2009149.jpg)
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e204/tmbill/Bills%20bikes/Billsbikes2009145.jpg)
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For me it was the YZ80b a mate down the road had one . I had an electric start DT125 low guard (steel ) trials tyres .
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I think in recent history, the YZF400 is the bike that really did change everything.
Whether you think it's for better or worse is the question....... :-X
Hey Bill, is that photo of the Bantam your actual first bike?
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No Tony i will dig some out of mine and post them , it was similar but yellow :)
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so the yellow bantem is responsible for your suzuki addiction?
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so the yellow bantem is responsible for your suzuki addiction?
;D ;D ;D Could be Mike , loved that Bantam 8) was a constant work in progress . I remember the biggest change was when we did away with the magneto and ran a total loss battery system :) the thing revved like a gooden . No matter what we did with the brakes they were at best rubbish but on the upside it taught me through nessesity to carry good corner speed :)
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Definitely the RM125x for mine when I see that bike it sums up motocross and my addiction.
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(http://i46.tinypic.com/21cw2nl.jpg)
Revolutionised Short Circuit, DT, in the mid 60's.
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For Mine
DT1 Yamaha
Elsinores CR125M & CR250M
Then the first monoshock Yamys
The first Disc Brake Kawa
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Why should MX be excluded from technological advancement?
The only thing different now is that all the " Backyard " type development and experimentation has been taken over by big business.
Can't hold back the tide.
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There are few catagories too, complete bikes, technical aspects and design aspects.Things that made everyone else follow suit whether they liked it or not. Then there are bikes that were well ahead of their time. Bikes like the Elsinores or the Full Floater, Yamaha's YPVS or Monoshock and the Ducati 916 in total and particularly the underseat exhaust. There is also race and sales records, how many Honda Cubs were or still are being sold? Race records like the NSR 500 and Aprilia RSW/RSA 125/250. Even the ill fated Cannondale MX deserves a place in history as being approximately 15 years ahead of it's time.
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*For me and a million others it was the Yamaha DT1. This bike is literally the Model T Ford of dirt bikes, it opened the door for anyone to afford what we take for granted today.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/68_Yamaha_DT1-1.jpg)
*As far as motocross is concerned, the Honda CR250 Elsinore changed our perspective on Japanese bikes forever. The decline of the European domination of dirt bike engineering started with the introduction of the Elsinore.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/Honda_Elsinore_250_74.jpg)
*Most people credit the release of the Yamaha YZ400F as the beginnining of the modern high tech 4T motocross bike but I give that credit to the '92 Husky 610 TE/TC. Their part in dirt bike history is way underrated.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/Husqvarna-610-TE-10024.jpg)
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the 78 model cr250 elsie stood out from the rest in the day, the closest thing to a works bike and had the go and handling to match
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I agree with the DT1 being one of the biggest influences on where dirt bikes are now. Cheap, reliable, cool and great styling. Perfect bike for the time.
What about the 89 Husaberg? First modern era 4 stroke to beat 2 strokes on a level field. Lighter and purer racer than the Husky.
Like it or not the YZ400F is the whole reason modern era motocross is dominated by lightweight high revving 4 strokes. Massive game changer. Still the most reliable.
One of the reasons I love Yamaha's. Inovative.
Cheers, Grahame
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A mate of mine has a cannondale and its pretty trick, l haven't ridden it but I'd like to, reverse cylinder, fuel injection, heaps of other goodies on it....
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My brothers RT1
(http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/Gallery%20%20A/Yamaha%20RT1%20360.jpg)
Broke my leg trying to start it and go for a fang while he was away roadracing somewhere - was 12 at the time.
(http://www.suzukicycles.org/photos/AC/AC50/1974_AC50_red_600.jpg)
After the RT episode dad got me one of these stripped down and with knobbies on it. Used to fang around the farm and beat any of the brothers mates on their 125s.
(http://www.mxworksbike.com/RH72-1_750.jpg)
The first real motocross bike I slung a leg over was Bill Flowers Suzuki NZ RH250 - and fell in love with both motocross (still called scrambles here in NZ back then) and Suzuki as a marque.
(http://www.suzukicycles.org/photos/1974/1974_TM125L_yellow_500.jpg)
First motocross bike - 3rd at OCIR in my first race.
(http://vintagemx.com.au/wp-content/gallery/suzuki-tmrm125-models/1975_rm125.jpg)
The bike that finally gave me the needed tool to beat the FMF and DG CR125s and get to the pro class.
(http://www.motodacross.com/honda/cr250/1993.jpg)
First modern bike when back out of retirement - and the bike I beat tmbill at the Tokoroa SX ;D
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I reckon best rider on best bike changed everything for ever more. Joel Robert, RH 250 and Japanese continuous improvement philosophy. Can be traced back to Edward Demmings teachings and the rebuilding of Japanese economic and socaial culture following WW2. Here's a thought, what if the Japanese had not got involved? Lets try and work out the likely evolution of dirt bikes. This should be good! Cheers Jerry
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(http://2wheeltuesday.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/bultaco-pursang.jpeg)
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I Recon the xr75 caused a chain reaction to what we have today.
Honda went from this in the 60s
(http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt12/hardexgun/F68937D1-23E4-46D7-B37C-30AFFDE45FBB-3311-00000649F95B8082.jpg)
To this in the 70s
(http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt12/hardexgun/DSCF2410.jpg)
That caused all other manufactures to pull the finger out
and today most significantly is that four strokes rule the world ::)
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If the Japs hadn't got involved would the Euros have still had it all to themselves and just kept muddling along or would the Yanks have fired up(and if so how?) and what if "On any Sunday" hadn't been made? Or was it all just meant to be???J
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Like it or not the YZ400F is the whole reason modern era motocross is dominated by lightweight high revving 4 strokes. Massive game changer. Still the most reliable.One of the reasons I love Yamaha's. Inovative.
Cheers, Grahame
You have got to be F&%King kidding me ::) there were more YZF 400s blown up in the first 6 months of ownership than the British expeditionary force blew up machinary at Dunkirk ::)
And i hear that their 2013 WR 450 is the biggest lemon since 1998 ;D
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If my memory serves me correctly Maico were first off with LTR so presumably the suspension revolution would have happened anyway and was it Lucien Tilken (forgive spelling) another Euro that patented the "Monoshock". Having said that didn't BSA have something similiar in the pipeline?
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Dead right Jerry :) Mr Tilkens a Belgian developed the monoshock and Suzuki turned it down before Yamaha picked it up .
BSA like all British manufacturers and industry back then suffered from NIH syndrome (Not Invented Here ) ::) so it was inevitable they would dissapear up their own arse :-[
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Exactly Bill, I'm suggesting the Euro's would have pushed the suspension thing along anyway but perhaps at a reduced pace.Presumably we would have seen the arrival of plastic at some point as well improved quality control. J
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When mini's got serious...... :o
(http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff366/Avonkitty/YZ%2080%20J/DSCN1845.jpg)
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75 Husky 360GP. First generally available GP replica (and before the Suzuki guys whinge, did you try to get hold of an RH or RN back in the day?)
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BSA like all British manufacturers and industry back then suffered from NIH syndrome (Not Invented Here ) so it was inevitable they would dissapear up their own arse
I love the story of the BSA directors examining a new Honda 750 four in their boardroom over their Friday afternoon gin and tonics and pissing themselves with glee over how the Japs had made a big mistake by making a bike "too complicated for the average man" and how their Rocket 3 would outsell them by 10-1. The Rocket 3 turned out to be a lemon, the Honda became one of the greatest bikes of all time and BSA was broke within the year and those idiots were all looking for jobs.
A mate of mine has a cannondale and its pretty trick, l haven't ridden it but I'd like to, reverse cylinder, fuel injection, heaps of other goodies on it....
And unfortunately they were crap. Too much innovation in one jump, the EFI mapping was a disaster as was the engine reliability. They came within a cooee of bankrupting Cannondale and they really haven't been a force in the bicycle game since. They're a very cool collector piece though. I almost bought a zero miles one myself but thankfully changed my mind. (I've got a complete NOS Cannondale ignition I got for schooner money on eBay that I've been considering fitting to something or other. I may see if it'll fit my 500 Triumph motor ;D....seriously.)
What about the 89 Husaberg? First modern era 4 stroke to beat 2 strokes on a level field. Lighter and purer racer than the Husky.
Of course Graeme, I totally forgot the Husabergs contribution but still reckon that the big Husky had a bigger impact overall, especially after Jacky Martens won the World title. I had a chance of buying a very special early TC 610 that Hans Apelgren bought into ther country for one of the Shearer's to ride in the Thumpernats. It was loaded with billet unobtainium and reputedly the forks were hand made billet works WP's. It was a few years old by the time Kevin Flood offered it to me but it was still the quickest bike I'd ridden up until that date. If it'd been a registerable TE I'd have grabbed it. I wonder where it is today ???.
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Dead right Jerry :)
so it was inevitable they would dissapear up their own arse :-[
If you read Ivor Davies book"Its a Triumph" you will see that Edward Turner new what was happening long before the rest.
cheers.
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What about the 89 Husaberg? First modern era 4 stroke to beat 2 strokes on a level field. Lighter and purer racer than the Husky.
Of course Graeme, I totally forgot the Husabergs contribution but still reckon that the big Husky had a bigger impact overall, especially after Jacky Martens won the World title.
I was going to mention the Bergs, there was a guy called Joel Smets who was pretty quick on one. But it was the YZ400F under Doug Henry that got the US Supercross time and rewrote the book.
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pffttt - take your love for compressors and shove it up you budgie smugglers ..... >:(
125cc - up to 125cc
250cc - 126cc to 250cc
500cc 251cc - 500cc
Thems are the categories ..... ya run whut ya brung within those numbers :-X
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I was going to mention the Bergs, there was a guy called Joel Smets who was pretty quick on one
No argument on Smets or Husabergs contribution but Jacky's win on the Husky came first and because it was a 4 stroke in a sea of 2 strokes it had a greater impact on the sport. By the Time Joel and his Husaberg came along we were more used to the 'fast four stroke' concept. I still believe that the Yamaha YZF400 merely finished off the job that Husky and Husa had started in nailing the lid on the two strokes coffin.
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I dunno what Martens bike was, but Darryll King was running one hell of a big beastie at one stage. I am thinking 630 off the top of my head. What pissed me off is that it was damn near as light as my CR250. Never in my life have I seen so much Ti and Cf other than on a F1 car :o
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The CR250 1978 was so far ahead that they were beating the 400's in the open catergory.
How no one mentioned this is interesting.
RM125X, I bought the CR125 and I did not see that I had a disadvantage, in fact at Jilliby I was quicker than my friends all on RM's?
YZ80C changed minibikes forever then the E model took it a step further. BUT the Italjet 50 was keeping 125's honest in 1980! So it needs a mention.
CR250 Elisinores and the 125.
YZ125D in fact the entire D range was something special.
Ohh and the Puch 250 with the 2 carbies, it made the japs re visit engine tuneing for the better.
Personally I would say there were several bikes that pushed the boundaries but only a few made everyone change, so you have to add the YZF400, the early Honda Elsinores and the early YZ's made everyone change so they have to go down as the biggest improvement to Dirt Bikes. Special Mention to the first Watercooled CR500RF as it was insane and really that motor never changed for 20 years! I have an 2011 CR500AF and it is a detuned 1985 CR500RF!!! so make that 27 years.
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I dunno what Martens bike was, but Darryll King was running one hell of a big beastie at one stage. I am thinking 630 off the top of my head. What pissed me off is that it was damn near as light as my CR250. Never in my life have I seen so much Ti and Cf other than on a F1 car :o
Think you're right about the engine size of DK's works husky, can remember seeing it rolled up to scrutineering at Woodville & thinking that it was something rather special. Hate to think what it was worth
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Should have seen us drooling like idiots as parts were being removed from the shipping boxes :o
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(http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa406/GT490/YZ250J.jpg)
As bad as it was, the 250J was a bike that introduced the powervalve system, and safety seats.
Other manufacturers also seemed to follow later with trendy coloured seats.
(http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa406/GT490/oongawaa.jpg)
Errm, I think this bike had a big impact. (pre BC open) ::)
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GT43, absolutely hilarious, you have just lightened up our world, cant stop laughing ;D ;D ;D
Mr & Mrs Maico #54
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One bike that I think became the best trail bike of the 80's
(http://www.mxbikes.com/pics/vbike/100_1593.JPG)
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1985 KX AND CR 500 FIRST WATERCOOLED PRODUCTION 500S
COPYS OF THE WORKS BIKES VERY COOL AT THE TIME AND
STILL A COOL BIKE 8)
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One bike that I think became the best trail bike of the 80's
I agree.
I think the YZ250J would have been better if they left the Cantilever rear end like the IT250 with the air-cooled engine, and added power-valve.
The YZ suspension was to soft and not progressive enough, plus radiator on the bars added a to high center of gravity on the bike.
Having said that, they can be setup to work well, I love em. I have a YZ250J roller in the shed.
GT43, absolutely hilarious, you have just lightened up our world, cant stop laughing ;D ;D ;D
Mr & Mrs Maico #54
;D
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One bike that I think became the best trail bike of the 80's
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/100_1593_zps50c8b506.jpg)
That's not my bike is it Mick ;D? I agree, the humble IT 250/465 gave gave many many people shitloads of trouble free fun for years. My mate Bernie still has the 465H that he's had since new, it's never seriously broken down, never had the bottom end apart and is still on first over and runs like a ripper. The suspension is still working as well as the day it left Macklin Motorcycles and like all 465's, is still scary fast. That bike inspired me to buy my 250H, (I'm too old to kick over a 465 ::)). I'm looking forward to taking my IT to the farm for its first run in my ownership during the Christmas-New Year break. I haven't done anything major to it so I'll use the time to work out what needs fixin'. I'll take the PE400Z as well.
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That IT250 looks sweet Firko.
It reminds me of this Thread I read a few months back, which you may have seen.
http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/887371-1982-it250-build-time-transformation-from-trail-to-vintage-mx/ (http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/887371-1982-it250-build-time-transformation-from-trail-to-vintage-mx/)
I have an IT490 that I am a bit dis-heartened with as I want to get it regoed, but I found out that Yamaha Pitmans in SA never complied them.
Apparently back in the early 80's there were two separate Aus Yamaha importers direct from Japan, and Pitmans were the Western distributors.
IT490's sold in the Eastern states were complied and Western states were not !!
Anyway, I rang the Gov Vehicle Inspection center and they said it cannot be registered being a competition bike.
Since then I found another frame with a compliance plate, but I have a bad feeling when the bike is finished it will be knocked back. :-\
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Sadly the photograped IT isn't mine GT. I bought mine from Slakewell who'd posted the above one so I was having a little in joke ::).
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No worries.