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Marque Remarks => Suzuki => Topic started by: Dono113 on August 08, 2012, 02:07:27 pm

Title: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: Dono113 on August 08, 2012, 02:07:27 pm
Read a thread which was dated awhile back on TM125 go fast tips, interested in making my 73 TM125 into a CR eater or close to, have a spare motor in case things go south :o, but I'm tired of chasing hondas any help would be excellent. I know youse have spoke of porting, changing CDI etc. just need to be pointed in right direction.
Thanks
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: 09.0 on August 08, 2012, 02:21:15 pm
Easiest way is to undo the filler cap and slide a cr125 under it! Sorry not helpful. I'm just a smart ass!
Methanol is the biggest increase in hp bar none if you are happy to play with that stuff. I even hate the idea of the high maintenance assossiated with it.
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: John Orchard on August 08, 2012, 02:26:09 pm
The only guy in Oz I saw get a TM125 going was Terry Bryant (R.I.P.) from Bryant Suzuki in Frankston, he built the bike for Jeff Beattie; twas a rocketship.  I wonder if Craig Jordon (Jordo) who was the apprentice then picked anything up?

Maybe slap in an RM125S engine?

I think those single-channel transfer ports were the limiting factor in those engines?
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: TM BILL on August 08, 2012, 02:41:04 pm
Dont think it will happen all things being equal, i tried everything short of bringing in a priest but they are limited  . As Brad said methanol will give a gain but lots of dramas  ::) RM 125S motor great but not pre 75 legal  ::) Lozza can probably port a TS cylinder for you ( they are a better starting point ) but if the other riders are of similar or better riding ability its a lost cause . 5 speed box is also limiting Crs are 6 speed , the fast Crs are on methanol and i found that on uphills they just run away . Davey crocket (Joan ) has built a fast reliable YZ 125A but its still a 5 speed  ??? Vandys MX 125 is a good fast pre 75 125 but still a 5 speed .

Honestly learn to corner real fast and hope the tracks dont have too many long straights or uphills and you may be in with a shot . Otherwise buy an Elsinore or a KX 125  ;D probably the only real contender to the Elsinore with stock motor and soooooooo easy to ride , sweet linear power and 6 speeds and they dont load up like an Elsinore  ;)  , you just have to work the suspension .  Rob Tumes from SA has had great succsess  on his KX at the nats in years gone by .

Tm is a great bike but a title contender  ??? not unless your name is Akira Watanabe  ;D
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: huskibul on August 08, 2012, 02:47:01 pm
   Or jens olsen ! back in the early 70's jens used to regularly beat top  A graders on elsinores on  TM's ,if you can untap his secrets your half way there  :D
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: jimg1au on August 08, 2012, 03:18:53 pm
this is what tm bill is talking about
last sunday pre90 125 dirt track 1st place brett chipperfield 1974 cr125.yes he is an a grader and yes it is his bike from new.
example 2
terry sayer(i think) 1977 cr125 runs on methenol reg 1st or 2nd evo 250 dirt track
jim
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: Lozza on August 08, 2012, 04:33:14 pm
Read a thread which was dated awhile back on TM125 go fast tips, interested in making my 73 TM125 into a CR eater or close to, have a spare motor in case things go south :o, but I'm tired of chasing hondas any help would be excellent. I know youse have spoke of porting, changing CDI etc. just need to be pointed in right direction.
Thanks
There are a few things to consider, the 5 sp is OK you just have to build the engine around it. Engine has limitations but there is nothing stopping you getting close to the CR in mx, dirt track is a bit different.
A TS cylinder is better starting point than a TM cylinder
TM ignition is woeful best swapped for a YZ80/100.
Use CR pistons.
In mx you will have a small window to get on top of CR's from mid corner to exit, if you can get good drive there your in with a chance.
No need for KX's Bill you can do it with a humble KH 125. ;)

PM Brentj and he'll fill you in on some details.
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: VMX247 on August 08, 2012, 04:34:07 pm
Read a thread which was dated awhile back on TM125 go fast tips, interested in making my 73 TM125 into a CR eater or close to, have a spare motor in case things go south :o, but I'm tired of chasing hondas any help would be excellent. I know youse have spoke of porting, changing CDI etc. just need to be pointed in right direction.
Thanks
What do you want to do,club days or win titles.?
A search on this forum is a great knowledge base.TM's can & do win titles.  :)

The little TM's may not have been the hottest ticket on the planet at the time but they were and still are one of the most reliable.
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: bazza on August 08, 2012, 04:57:54 pm
put a TM tank on a CR
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: TM BILL on August 08, 2012, 05:15:59 pm
Read a thread which was dated awhile back on TM125 go fast tips, interested in making my 73 TM125 into a CR eater or close to, have a spare motor in case things go south :o, but I'm tired of chasing hondas any help would be excellent. I know youse have spoke of porting, changing CDI etc. just need to be pointed in right direction.
Thanks
What do you want to do,club days or win titles.?
A search on this forum is a great knowledge base.TM's can & do win titles.  :)[/font]
The little TM's may not have been the hottest ticket on the planet at the time but they were and still are one of the most reliable.

Enlighten me do  ??? when did a TM 125 win a vintage title ?? Doc got a very well earned 3rd at the Coffs titles  :) 250s and 400s have won titles for sure although i believe in those cases it has been 90% rider 5% bike and 5% good fortune  ;)
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: TM BILL on August 08, 2012, 05:17:44 pm
Read a thread which was dated awhile back on TM125 go fast tips, interested in making my 73 TM125 into a CR eater or close to, have a spare motor in case things go south :o, but I'm tired of chasing hondas any help would be excellent. I know youse have spoke of porting, changing CDI etc. just need to be pointed in right direction.
Thanks
There are a few things to consider, the 5 sp is OK you just have to build the engine around it. Engine has limitations but there is nothing stopping you getting close to the CR in mx, dirt track is a bit different.
A TS cylinder is better starting point than a TM cylinder
TM ignition is woeful best swapped for a YZ80/100.
Use CR pistons.
In mx you will have a small window to get on top of CR's from mid corner to exit, if you can get good drive there your in with a chance.
No need for KX's Bill you can do it with a humble KH 125. ;)
PM Brentj and he'll fill you in on some details.

Do you fit knobblys to the KH Lozza  ??? and do you run the std KH suspension  ;D
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: VMX247 on August 08, 2012, 05:26:58 pm
TM's can & do win titles.[/[/color]font]
Enlighten me do  ???

I didnt mention capacity !  :)

The question was pretty open..How longs a piece of string and what money/time has he got to spend   :P
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: Slakewell on August 08, 2012, 05:41:08 pm
Ive herd of guys moving the barrel studs to fit another transfer port? Dave Tanner has a sweet one that I love the look of. 
The only thing better than a Honda is an Honda engine in a KTM frame  ;)
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: Graeme M on August 08, 2012, 08:33:32 pm
What they all said...   ;D
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: Curly3 on August 08, 2012, 09:07:29 pm
I'm interested, as a kid I dreamed of having a TM125 and one day I will.
Carefull what you say Alison, everything has to be backed up with fact, ;)
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: Lozza on August 08, 2012, 09:28:18 pm
Yep Bill even leave the blinkers and mirrors on  ;D I realised I should have said KH engine.
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: GMC on August 08, 2012, 09:50:09 pm
Carefull what you say Alison, everything has to be backed up with fact, ;)

Since when does a woman use facts in a discussion ???
Coupled with conversations about Elsinore beating TM 125’s I think I have stumbled into the science fiction section
 ;D :D
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: VMX247 on August 08, 2012, 09:54:11 pm
Since when does a woman use facts in a discussion ???
Coupled with conversations about Elsinore beating TM 125’s I think I have stumbled into the science fiction section
 ;D :D
Witch, I never said what "cc" ..Dont you have a Vinduro report to write  ;D

and yes reaction times slowing~ 4minutes 2 sec   ;D
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: GMC on August 08, 2012, 10:09:34 pm
Witch,

I could comment but I won't ;D ;D ;D



Harrow report writing is being interrupted by shit stirring sessions   :D
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: brent j on August 08, 2012, 10:44:02 pm
Talk really nicely to Lozza ;D

If you run a CR125 piston, check your compression pressure as they have a higher and "fuller" dome than stock. Be especially carefull if you trim the underside of the cylinder to correct the piston to deck height.

YZ80 ignition works very well and allows the motor to make more power at higher revs.

I had a few problems with mine at the Nationals but I think I have them sorted now, I just need time to get it out to ride it again.
Then I need to make a new pipe

I'm still running a standard carb too (26mm)

Suspension! a good set of rear shocks and PD valves or Emulators for the forks and heavier springs. You'll need to make adaptors or new tops for the damper rods to fit damping vlaves but they are very well worth it.

Maybe not a CR beater but a lot faster than stock
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: Hardex on August 09, 2012, 06:33:58 am
Enlighten me do   when did a TM 125 win a vintage title ?? Doc got a very well earned 3rd at the Coffs titles   250s and 400s have won titles for sure although i believe in those cases it has been 90% rider 5% bike and 5% good fortune 

TM Bill
I lost To Andre Matheson in 92 at the Ravenswood titles under 40s class on a hot cr125 and Andre's tm125 was basically stock .He was just a beter rider.I was able to run a close 4th behind Geoff Eldridge in the open class and Andre finished second on a TM125 and Chris McAteer won it out right on a TM125.Thats what i love about racing bikes ,it still comes down to the rider .

(http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt12/hardexgun/DSCF4.jpg)
(http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt12/hardexgun/DSCF2.jpg)
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: Dono113 on August 09, 2012, 08:43:48 am
I race against Terry and Brett also Nev Shepheard has a bloody quick CR, it would be too easy just to give up and sell the TM and buy an elise. My 77 RM 125 runs methanol ( which I'm selling to buy a 250 savage)so already know the proceedures( draining tank, running heavy oil premix etc) it seems to be the transfer ports what I can gather.
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: Lozza on August 09, 2012, 09:28:56 am
Thats what i love about racing bikes ,it still comes down to the rider .
 
(http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt12/hardexgun/DSCF2.jpg)

...........or your haircut  ;D ;D ;D

CR's extra transfers help, what akes the CR faster is the top end bias in the power, low end and mid range are not the CR's strong point , nor is good carburation. That makes the 6 speed necessary along with fanning the clutch. Needs to be ridden in a point n squirt style.
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: Dono113 on August 09, 2012, 10:19:15 am
So lozza if I can get a TS barrel, carb, cr piston, methanol, yz80 ing and the grace of god do you think it worth it ???
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: Lozza on August 09, 2012, 01:47:19 pm
Will be fun trying won't it. None of those items should be particularly hard to find or expensive.
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: Dono113 on August 09, 2012, 02:25:05 pm
The name Peter campbell of goulburn was thrown to myself today, I don't know a great deal about Peter except his rep as a engine builder and thats it hard to get him interested at the moment.
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: Curly3 on August 09, 2012, 03:37:06 pm
PC would be the man but he's alway's got plenty on the go.
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: Dono113 on August 10, 2012, 09:01:01 am
I've got two TM 125 motors, so I'm keen, Lozza what year model yz80 ignition ? I'm putting the bottom end together this weekend, a mate might have a TS barrel (got rid of one not long ago DAMN) was going to tackle the porting myself, but I end up drinking and thinking too much before I start ::)
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: Lozza on August 10, 2012, 11:22:55 pm
82 YZ80J is a good ignition
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: John Orchard on August 11, 2012, 06:43:58 pm
Hey Loz, would a YZ ignition be good for an RM125B ?  All those early TM/RM ignitions look the same.  Has the YZ stuff got a more comprehensive advance curve?
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: brent j on August 11, 2012, 07:39:30 pm
To fit the YZ80 ignition I made a stepped plate to take up the difference in size between between the TM backing plate and the YZ one.
To fit the rotor, I set up the TM one in a lathe and set the compound slide to match the TM taper. I then bored the YZ rotor to match. There is enough meat to do this but not a lot to play with.
*I lapped the rotor to the crank, set the timing with a dial gauge and just bolted the rotor on. Don't bother with the keyway, it doesn't match up anyway.

*with thanks to Lozza
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: brent j on August 11, 2012, 07:51:39 pm
Here's my take on making a TM fast. Keep in mind that this is from a guy who ran nearly last in class at the Nats but I will plead bike problems which I have since sorted (I think!)

Don't go overboard with trying to get too much power out of the motor. They have fairly wide spaced gears and if you get them too peaky they won't carry the next gear. Try to just increase the standard power characteristics. They can get out of corners well with a wider spread of power.
Are you building this to race for your self? if you are going to get some 55kg kid to ride it then bomb it up to the max and let him try to kill it. If you're a bit like me, 80kg and a bit out of shape you don't want something that is going to wear you out and have you tap dancing on the gear lever all the time.

Sort the suspension!! These bikes are very stable and turn well. Good shocks set up for your weight, damping valves in the forks and heavier fork springs. At the Nats I found that while I was down on power I could take any line I wanted and know I was going to stay on and straight.


Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: Lozza on August 11, 2012, 08:21:14 pm
Hey Loz, would a YZ ignition be good for an RM125B ?  All those early TM/RM ignitions look the same.  Has the YZ stuff got a more comprehensive advance curve?
I would have to see the RM curves to know for sure.
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: suzuki447 on August 12, 2012, 10:04:07 pm
hi i,m doing up two tm125 at present .one has a gem reed valve block and bassani upipe.other will have bassani downpipe.question ,will the reeds make much diference.
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: John Orchard on August 13, 2012, 10:43:30 am
I always wanted to put reeds into my TM125; is your reed block large enough?  I guess you'd have to trim a large cut-out from the intake side of the piston as on other reed valve engines (or you'd get less power lol).

I use to swap back & forwards with a Bassani down-pipe and a Terry Bryant shortened stocker with a straight-thru muffler, the shortened stocker gave heaps more power.  The Bassani was all low-down (as much low-down as a 125 two-stroke mxer makes lol).
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: Doc on August 13, 2012, 02:57:32 pm
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/229040_10150263644145739_5115391_n.jpg)

The reed may have looked the goods but no real world difference ;) build it stock, match the ports and gaskets, fit larger TM250 front forks/front brake, 3.50x18 rear tyre and ride it like you stole it. The TM125 has better low to midrange power and will stop and turn in a blink. Trying to match it with a CR in straight line HP will cost a kings ransom to even get a look in so 'in my opinion' look at the other options. Handling and brakes ;)   
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: Lozza on August 13, 2012, 03:23:05 pm
Unless you put added ports in the reed will make little difference. Hey Doc you forgot to weld that kick starter on
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: Doc on August 13, 2012, 04:25:57 pm
 ;D took some grinding to get the bastard off I can tellya Loz! :P I couldn't understand because after it was removed there was nothing wrong with either splines ???

I'd reckon with the reed at high rpm it could well hinder the flow. It was my way of thinking, the ports cut in the skirt at said high rpm wouldn't achieve much  and low end power wasn't the issue :-\ Although there was a 'little' more down low it wasn't noticeable unless puttering around. The carb was a 28mm and the jetting seemed pretty much in the ballpark so I removed the reed and left well and good enough alone :-\       
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: vmx42 on August 13, 2012, 05:54:16 pm
Big Bore!!! Nobody will ever guess, until you start winning...  :D
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: Lozza on August 13, 2012, 09:24:00 pm
.......... so 'in my opinion' look at the other options. Handling and brakes ;)   

That's code for TS185 shocks  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: Doc on August 13, 2012, 09:30:40 pm
TS185 shocks with Koni spring keepers Loz..amazing how much extra performance can be found in swapping just the keepers but shhhh..it's a secret ;) 
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: Lozza on August 13, 2012, 09:54:56 pm
off to scour ebay..................................................................... ;)
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: Dono113 on August 14, 2012, 08:56:45 am
That motor is way too pretty to race Doc :o
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: Doc on August 14, 2012, 12:58:23 pm
Quote
That motor is way too pretty to race Doc

Cheers Dono, while I may not race that's not to say it hasn't been used. Nothing is above being thrashed ;)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/429604_10150748339760739_703331386_n.jpg)
CD7
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: firko on August 14, 2012, 01:21:31 pm
Hey Doc, I know it's a long way from sunny Bris Vegas but are you coming down for CD9? It'd be good to see you.
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: vmx42 on August 14, 2012, 03:14:52 pm
Hey Doc, I know it's a long way from sunny Bris Vegas but are you coming down for CD9? It'd be good to see you.

Firko,
What do you mean its a long way? I reckon its about the same distance as Sydney to Connondale [or near enough to make no difference].

Distance is a piss-weak excuse. Come on Doc you know you want too?  ;D
VMX42
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: firko on August 14, 2012, 04:29:11 pm
Quote
Distance is a piss-weak excuse.
I agree Jeff, but how many will use it anyway? ::)
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: oldfart on August 14, 2012, 04:38:52 pm
Yep it's a cool shot of you there Doc.
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: vmx42 on August 14, 2012, 04:45:31 pm
Quote
Distance is a piss-weak excuse.
I agree Jeff, but how many will use it anyway? ::)

Soft C$&ks!!!  :D
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: brent j on August 14, 2012, 07:01:14 pm
Quote
Distance is a piss-weak excuse.
I agree Jeff, but how many will use it anyway? ::)

Soft C$&ks!!!  :D

 :o
Title: Re: Want To Turn TM 125 IN CR eater
Post by: Doc on August 14, 2012, 08:26:52 pm
Would love to catch up with everyone again including yourself but no sorry Firko. Not complaing in the least and as much as I'd like to I'm pretty limited in what I can do. I'm sure it'll be a ripper event as always ;) Will have to be content reading about :)