OzVMX Forum
Marketplace => For Sale => Topic started by: John Orchard on July 30, 2012, 04:05:08 pm
-
For Sale RM125B, I’ve just finished rebuilding it; check this link http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?topic=24007.0 to my original post on the rebuild. I haven’t ridden the bike since completing (well around the back yard). The bike is ready to race. I have built this bike to exactly as I wanted it, I have to sell it to pay for operations on my body; maybe when I’m healed I can build another? More pics to come in the next couple of days. $3500 ..... Now $2900 bike only and $450 for all the spares.
NEW PARTS JUST FITTED
Freshly bored 2.0mm O/S 'C' cylinder.
New 2.0mm over Wiseco piston & rings.
Small end bearing & pin.
Replica Preston Petty ‘Tony D’ front guard.
Replica rear guard.
NOS L&R side covers.
Genuine RM125X front race plate.
Replica throttle assy.
Genuine RM125B handgrips.
Alloy handlebars.
Throttle cable.
Clutch cable.
Rear brake cable.
Fork seals.
Front & rear wheel bearings.
Genuine fuel tank cap.
Seat cover & foam.
Genuine airfilter element.
Genuine swingarm needle roller bearings & bushes.
Main crankshaft bearings & seals.
New Progressive shocks with RM250B springs.
428 x-ring chain.
15t front sprocket & 59t alloy rear.
Genuine carb to airbox joint.
Chain tensioner rollers & spring.
4.00 x 18 5x4 rear knobby.
Genuine lever dust covers.
Genuine kickstart lever boot.
Front brake cable guide.
Front sprocket cover.
Aftermarket muffler.
BIKE MODS
Folding gearlever.
34mm Mikuni carb.
UFO carb slide optimiser.
Footpeg wideners.
Carbon Reed petal.
Increased reed valve flow area 20%.
Genuine Suz optional alloy swingarm.
Fork wipers.
Rear sprocket mounting studs.
Sub chain roller.
SPARES INCLUDED
Fresh bore 'B' cylinder 1.5mm O/S.
Used 1.5mm O/S piston kit.
New Wiseco 1.5mm O/S piston kit.
Used once Wiseco 2mm O/S piston kit.
New small end bearing & pin.
13t & 14t front sprockets
Standard swingarm, with good bushes.
Rear wheel hub.
Standard rear shocks, slight oil weep, still has gas.
Complete clutch assy.
Complete gearbox shafts.
Shift drum & forks.
New replica oval front race plate.
New conrod kit.
Chain tensioner rollers & spring.
57t & 61t steel rear sprockets.
PE175C forks & triple clamps (needs seals).
Fork boots (tiny hole).
Front brake cable.
NOS pulser coil.
32mm carb.
New DC Plastics L&R sidecovers.
Old L&R plastic side covers.
New rubber swingarm chain buffers (std swingarm) x 2.
New crankcase gaskets.
New rear spoke set.
Used front spoke set.
Fuel tank cap.
Front axle.
New kick shaft seal.
Ignition coil.
Boyeson dual stage reed petals.
Steel reed petals.
RM100B Rusted/sad rolling chassis, no tank or seat foam.
RM100B engine, partially stripped, badly rusted & seized crank.
RM100/125 A/B/C cone-formed expansion chamber.
RM125A NOS pulser coil.
(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/JohnnyRacer89/RHpostrebuild.jpg)
(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/JohnnyRacer89/LHpostrebuild.jpg)
(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/JohnnyRacer89/LHfrontpostrebuild.jpg)
(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/JohnnyRacer89/RRsprocketpostrebuild.jpg)
-
I have built this bike to exactly as I wanted it, I have to sell it to pay for operations on my body; maybe when I’m healed I can build another?
Really sorry to hear that, hope it all works out for you.
-
Yes seriously John, good luck. I am sure we all hope it works out for well for you.
And I personally couldn't go past a RM12B for a pre78 125 mount.
They are a brilliant little machine. And yours looks sweet as 8)
-
Thanks Guy's, it's nothing too serious (as long as no complications ;-) ); just new joints. I hope they work, I hate the thought of not being able to ride again.
-
Ok, the bike only for $2900 and/or all the spares $450.
-
Had my first outing on the bike at the last round of the 2012 VCM Championships; I got a couple of holeshots in the 125 Evo class, finished second or third (points scoring confusion) overall for the day with a fresh knee joint replacement, the bike is a jet and I haven't even refined the jetting & timing yet!!!
http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/mposs/DSCF0404.jpg
-
Looks good but whats with the weird rear number plate?
-
Looks good but whats with the weird rear number plate?
I didn't want to damage my new genuine side covers, plus it's hard to read the side plates with the legs blocking them so I thought I'd do the right thing by the lap-scorers and hang the plates off an old rear guard.
-
Matches the weird front number board ;D
But that aside nice bike :)
-
Matches the weird front number board ;D
But that aside nice bike :)
It's not wierd ;-) Back in the day we all had to run rectangle plates 9 1/4" x 11 3/4", just making as per the day.
-
plus it's hard to read the side plates with the legs blocking them
You can't read it where it is now either ;D.
-
plus it's hard to read the side plates with the legs blocking them
You can't read it where it is now either ;D.
Just a blur from the speed ;-) yeh that side was a hard with the pipe there.
-
So is the bike still for sale? ??? You do look like you are having a ball on it anyway ;) couldn't blame you for keeping it :)
-
I'm just going to refresh the bike and make sure everything is ok after riding it on the weekend and then decide what price I can sell the bike for if I look at selling off some of the spares separately.
Looks like I have a buyer for my roadbike so that takes some financial pressure off me and I'm looking at buying a Husky CR500, so pending what a Husky is going to cost me will change what I let the RM go for.
-
Hi John,
That sounds fine, i'd rather is sooner than later as i think i'm a bit heavier than you i'll end up respringing it anyway.
The money is here for you as soon as you want to sell it, consider it sold.
Having said that i do want to race it next year so it needs to be a late December/early January sale
Ted
-
Jezuz Ted I had an offer in already (before the VCM ride day) and awaiting reply. Now you jump in with gazumping swoop. You just sold a great little 125 ;D
-
Ted
I hear you are sponsoring an up and coming rider next year, anybody I know.????
-
Oh really Greg. This bike has been for sale since July 30 with no offers being listed on this topic so i thought it was safe to assume that it was still FOR SALE. I would have thought that three and a half months was long enough time for somebody interested to purchase this bike. I probably should have checked with you first before negotiating a deal with the owner. :o
-
No problems Ted you'll be more aware next time ;D ;D ;D I mean it is a complex issue :D :D
-
No worries Greg, Keep mowing lawns and something else will come up in your price range. ;D
-
;D :'(
-
Turn 1 Holeshot :-)
(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/JohnnyRacer89/Turn1holeshotStonyCreek11-Nov-2012.jpg)
-
Turn 1 Holeshot :-)
(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/JohnnyRacer89/Turn1holeshotStonyCreek11-Nov-2012.jpg)
Great pic :) I can see now how that front number board fits right in ;) is that 3 eras in one race ? gotta love that grass ;D Is 36 Alan Riha and 153 Jody Smith ?
-
Yeh the biggest number board in the race and they still mixed up my lap scoring lol. Yeh I think you're correct about the other two riders.
-
Great stuff John. Which ones the replaced knee? J
-
Great stuff John. Which ones the replaced knee? J
The left knee, I pussy'd it around the off-camber left handers; my doc would kill me if he found out I even rode let alone raced! LOL
-
Were you worried if you hooked it on something that you may have torn the lower part of your leg off? J
-
That explains this body position..... checking on the Knee :o
(http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/mposs/DSCF0400.jpg)
-
Great stuff John. Which ones the replaced knee? J
The left knee, I pussy'd it around the off-camber left handers; my doc would kill me if he found out I even rode let alone raced! LOL
Onyer John :) lifes not a practice , you gotta enjoy every day :)
That really looks like a great track and you blokes are having a ball, 125B still one of my favorite bikes :)
-
Notice my little addition to the the chain tensioner, I fitted a plate to act as a guard to stop body parts going into the rear sprocket/chain. I didn't want to fit anything to the swingarm.
-
Scrivo, Don`t read this :'(
Just a bit of feedback on a bike i bought from John Orchard
Instead of delivering the bike in last ridden condition and putting all the spares in a box " Here you go fella, it should be all there style" John fitted all new plastics and any suspect / damaged parts before handover. Not only is it race ready ( as stated beforehand ) it is damn near a garage queen. All i`ve got to do is paint the tank, polish the fork legs and swingarm. John also drove 300 klms to deliver the bike free of charge.
I would highly recommend any dealings with him
Thanks mate, you are a great bloke
Heres the pics of my bikes as requested
http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?topic=23054.0
http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?topic=2804.0
http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?topic=17767.0
-
Just to cheer you up Ted the swingarm is not legal ;) you will have to put the standard one on which was supplied with the bike. I agree the swingarm should be legal but it has been done to death on here a hundred times.
It sounds like John did you a big favour with a great bike, I was a little slow :'(. Obviously he does not know you like we do ::) ;D :P
Hope you have it on the start line next year. It will be good to see you out there again and we miss your mobile Taj Mahal ;D ;D ;D
-
Thanks for the kind words Ted, it's my sense of professionalism that would never let me sell a bike that I wouldn't want to ride; I'm looking forward to hearing how the bike goes, I'm also interested to hear what jetting changes your mate makes; if he improves it any the bike will be a missile!
-
Legal Smegal.....Since when has Heaven had rules?
I'd be more worried about 8th place putting a breathyliser on 1st place :o
-
Just to cheer you up Ted the swingarm is not legal ;) you will have to put the standard one on which was supplied with the bike. I agree the swingarm should be legal but it has been done to death on here a hundred times.
It sounds like John did you a big favour with a great bike, I was a little slow :'(. Obviously he does not know you like we do ::) ;D :P
Hope you have it on the start line next year. It will be good to see you out there again and we miss your mobile Taj Mahal ;D ;D ;D
(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss270/ted84photos/029-2_zps81225bde.jpg)
(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss270/ted84photos/028-3_zpsfeec673c.jpg)
(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss270/ted84photos/027-3_zps4ba27324.jpg)
And your argument is? This will be complex :o
-
Ted I know all about that as I had that exact book in 1977. I also saw more than one bike late in 1977 with those swingarms fitted. I agree they should be legal and it has been done to death on here. The fact remains that they are deemed not legal by the powers that be unless something has changed in the last couple of months. Don't blame me just paint it black and take your chances ;) ;D
Would be interested in a copy of the Frank Pons porting details if they are for the RM125B 8)
-
Well, Looks like i will be scheduling a meeting with MA to resolve the matter.
Not sure the porting will be any good for your bike if you put a C model fuel tank on it.....The fuel may get confused as it enters the cylinder, it`s a very complex issue. ;)
-
Ted , I have the same documents you have in your post plus a copy of the part number along with other paper work with proof they did exist back in 1977.
The day I put mine on my Rm 125 B and I get protested ....I will be asking for all the other COPY cat arms to show documents to say they have a REPLICA and proof that it is that should shut a few of them up.
-
For something to be a replica it has to copy the original
If MA deem the original Suzuki optional 1977 aluminium swing arm did not exist then how the fork can you race with a replica arm?
Oldfart, would it be possible you could get a copy of existence to me of the arm. I will take this and other evidence to MA for verification
Cheers
-
replica after market DG FOX etc.
-
What did they copy Noel?
Replica.....an exact copy or reproduction
Copy.....an imitation or reproduction of an original
If there is no original how can there be replicas?
-
RA? RH? RN?
-
So it is plausible that numb nuts can replicate a Suzuki alloy swing arm but Suzuki cannot.....please.
-
They copied their own performance products of the period,
people were hotting up bikes back in 77' ::)
the optional Suzuki ally swing arm has been done to death on the forum, but has it actually been tested in the proper channels ,
I think the issue was aluminium swing arms being fitted from manufacturers that did not make an ally swing arm in 77'
-
So who knows the correct ruling from MA word for word?
-
Wow.. you guys are confused!
-
Confused.......Enlighten me
-
yep I'm confused,help us out
-
All the aftermarket alloy swingarms are legal, most of them (DG, Thor etc) were available in '76. There are now copies of these swingarms available that are also legal. It seems the only alloy arm not legal for the RM125B is the optional Suzuki arm which was available mid '77.
MA for some reason known only to them have not approved the optional arm, apparently the dated parts book is not enough proof! WTF??
-
what about Novation arms where to they fit in
-
Personally I don't think they are right for pre '78, none of them look like a swingarm from the era but i guess it's up to the scrutineer at the meeting to make the call..
-
Thanks Johnny.........I am definitely going to MA now. I will post up their response as soon as they open their doors after Xmas
-
Thats what I thought,
I have never seen any concrete information that says MA do not approve the optional "B" arm
does it really exist or has it Just become an urban Myth carried over from an altercation with a misinformed critic of the day
-
I know from talking to Dave Tanner that the Suzuki optional alloy swingarm was not approved. If they use their common sense that swingarm should be legal but then you will get people trying to use the '78 C model arm which is not quite the same.
-
This thread is evidence of what is broken in Vintage MX.
-
I know from talking to Dave Tanner that the Suzuki optional alloy swingarm was not approved. If they use their common sense that swingarm should be legal but then you will get people trying to use the '78 C model arm which is not quite the same.
I am not sure but I seem to remember that one of the debates on here indicated that while the alloy arm was shown in the parts book it was not actually available until very late in the 'B' model life if at all.
Listing things in a book would seem concrete evidence unless the arm was not actually available to most riders. I can remember seeing at least two on bikes while I had my 'B' model back in the day but I did keep that bike into 1978 so can not be certain when it was I actually saw the swingarm in use.
I do think that a genuine 'B' optional arm should be legal but then we would have a heap of RM125C's without swingarms and the 'C' would need to be modified and that would not be legal under the current rules.
Sorry Ted still need to paint it black then ;D All that complex polishing wasted :P
-
With the evidence I have attained I am 100 percent certain I will come away with a positive result.
From what I have ascertained from this forum is that NOBODY has ever formally challenged the powers that be.
It was made in 1977, It was sold in 1977 and it was raced in 1977 . Pretty forking simple
If you wanna use a C model arm, go ahead at your own peril
-
It's funny where this argument will pop up!
I have less of an opinion now than I used to on this subject.
The parts book that is a reference is dated in December. Everybody knows that the next year model is introduced the previous year. The c model would have been well and truly out by then. If it was dated in say, May,you would have a better case.
How many GENUINE arms are out there? How many will be modified c arms? Maybe it's not that big of a deal.
This thread is evidence of what is broken in Vintage MX.
I think you are looking at it too hard. If that is the case, lots of things are broken in vmx. It depends on your attitude towards it imo. There are lots of grey areas in vmx, but in general it works and works well. In most cases its the humans with their own agendas that try and stuff it up.
-
090 your are correct on both counts,
I had the B and clearly remember the day I picked up my new C,
The alloy arm makes bugger all difference to the performance,
But to a Human and his agenda Well !!!
I remember turning up at Amaroo with 2 almost perfect rare machines and being made to start rear of the grid and then have them stoned to death before I made it to the first corner,
-
what about Novation arms where to they fit in
Dont know but it aint Vintage MX ;)
-
Yes, this parts book is printed in Dec 1977 . It is also the fourth edition of this book
Even if this part was available in Dec '77 it still makes it a '77 model
Buy a new car on the 31st of Dec 2012 and tell me what year model it is.
-
There are lots of grey areas in vmx, but in general it works and works well. In most cases its the humans with their own agendas that try and stuff it up.
Well stated Brad. I know little and care even less over the RM-B swing arm situation but know that there must be a good argument from either side for there to be a situation in the first place.
In my 25 years in VMX many grey area rules have come up but in most cases it's been proven that there's a genuine reason for the rule being in place. While I have issues with a number rulings ( B40 BSA pre 65 eligibility problems for one, Novation swingarms for two ::)) I think our rulebook has done a pretty good job over the last twenty + years. Most of the scrutineering dramas I've seen in that time have evolved from racers either trying to pull a swifty, interpreting the rulebook to suit their own agenda or, in most cases common ignorance of what's eligible on their bike. Even though you might disagree with what's written on the page with regards your bike, you can't go against the written word just because you think it's wrong. If you want the rulebook changed, get all of your proof of eligibility together and submit your proposal for change through the proper channels. Whingeing and whining on the forums or amongst your mates isn't going to change diddly shit. If you've got a particular grey area that may cause some doubt from the scrutineer, take your written, dated proof of that part/modification/model/whatever is in your opinion eligible and present it to the scrutineer during inspection.
Build your bike to the book like 99% of us do and there'll be no dramas however.
-
Well said.
Put the C model arm in it to look at it,
put the B model arm in it to race it,
Don't even need a rule book for that one,
-
Well said.
Put the C model arm in it to look at it,
put the B model arm in it to race it,
Don't even need a rule book for that one,
Fair enough
As far as im aware the only difference betwen the optional B arm and the C model arm is the addition of the brake stay bracket and that the optional arm was painted black.
Paint asisde what is to stop somone fabricating a brake stay bracket and welding it on ( if somone can still weld that bad to copy the original )
Whos to say witch is witch ???
Or to play devils advocate whats to stop somone removing the bracket off the optional B arm and fabricating their own floating rear brake system for their B but NOT using C model brake components ;)
-
I have the 3rd edition of the book printed and published in november 76' and it has the optional 125-B arm ! as long as it's not full floating it should be ok
-
Your probably right there too bill ! pretty sure floating brakes were around before 78' :)
-
Yes, this parts book is printed in Dec 1977 . It is also the fourth edition of this book
Even if this part was available in Dec '77 it still makes it a '77 model
Buy a new car on the 31st of Dec 2012 and tell me what year model it is.
Using bikes rather than cars as an example and my train of thought, for example my cr500 has a build date of November 1984. Is it pre 85 legal? No as its a designated 85 model.
Why hasn't anyone come up with the first version of the parts list? Is there not one or is it because it isn't listed in it?
-
the optional swingarm
https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=86267C09A3452A71!5897&authkey=!AMouQhSD7jmCtcM (https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=86267C09A3452A71!5897&authkey=!AMouQhSD7jmCtcM)
differences: brake stay lug, pivot used bushes not needle roller bearing, black paint
-
Well I guess we are all putting our opinion in for the 3rd or 4th time so here we go again :-)
1) The swingarm is listed in a 1977 parts list.
2) The part is listed for a 1977 B model.
3) Other brands of alloy swingarms are allowed for Pre 78.
4) There is a difference between C swingarms and B.
5) Someone needs to come up with a pic, from 1977, of a bike with the swingarm being used - Game over.
-
5) Someone needs to come up with a pic, from 1977, of a bike with the swingarm being used - Game over.
How will you know the pick is from '77 and not '78 or any other year?
If only it was that easy..
-
There are lots of grey areas in vmx, but in general it works and works well. In most cases its the humans with their own agendas that try and stuff it up.
Well stated Brad. I know little and care even less over the RM-B swing arm situation but know that there must be a good argument from either side for there to be a situation in the first place.
In my 25 years in VMX many grey area rules have come up but in most cases it's been proven that there's a genuine reason for the rule being in place. While I have issues with a number rulings ( B40 BSA pre 65 eligibility problems for one, Novation swingarms for two ::)) I think our rulebook has done a pretty good job over the last twenty + years. Most of the scrutineering dramas I've seen in that time have evolved from racers either trying to pull a swifty, interpreting the rulebook to suit their own agenda or, in most cases common ignorance of what's eligible on their bike. Even though you might disagree with what's written on the page with regards your bike, you can't go against the written word just because you think it's wrong. If you want the rulebook changed, get all of your proof of eligibility together and submit your proposal for change through the proper channels. Whingeing and whining on the forums or amongst your mates isn't going to change diddly shit. If you've got a particular grey area that may cause some doubt from the scrutineer, take your written, dated proof of that part/modification/model/whatever is in your opinion eligible and present it to the scrutineer during inspection.
Build your bike to the book like 99% of us do and there'll be no dramas however.
Mark. Read my posts. I have every intention of getting it resolved with the powers that be.
Do you think they will open on Xmas day for me.
-
The part was available in november 76' according to my genuine suzuki parts book ,which youd have to think was around the release date of the 125- B and you would think the 1st & 2nd edition would be 125-A/S/M models
-
When I say "a pic from 77" I mean I have seen a pic in a '77 Revs or AMCN of Anthony Gunter with the alloy arm. I guess if you can see the printed date of the paper in the pic - game over.
-
When I say "a pic from 77" I mean I have seen a pic in a '77 Revs or AMCN of Anthony Gunter with the alloy arm. I guess if you can see the printed date of the paper in the pic - game over.
That would be perfect if there are any around.
-
Yes, this parts book is printed in Dec 1977 . It is also the fourth edition of this book
Even if this part was available in Dec '77 it still makes it a '77 model
Buy a new car on the 31st of Dec 2012 and tell me what year model it is.
Actually Ted if you use the above augument then it is doomed. almost every year the following year model comes out in the last quarter eg many MY2013 model cars are out now.
The RM125C was available around October 1977 and is not Pre78.
The YZ125E? I can remember my mate buying one in September or October 1977 but again not Pre78 legal. The shop had 125Ds and 125Es both sitting on the floor side by side.
The basis of your augument must be that the part was freely available during the models life not just printed in a book published in Dec 1977 after the RM125C was freely available. The few RM125Bs with those alloy bars that I saw back in the day were all ridden by fully supported riders so where they only issued to sellected riders? Buggered if I know.
-
The optional arm was available over the counter in mid 77, my mate bought one from Phil Thew Suzuki and it came painted black.
-
Adelaide 1977 Anthony Gunter. Alloy arm and floating rear brake
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/412122_10151406653690739_1124861273_o.jpg)
-
Why go in with one minute to midnight evidence and make it a grey area ! as ive said above i have written evidence(genuine 76 parts catalog) the arm was available to the public 13 months before december 77 ' it's black and white there is no Grey area ... they shoundnt have a leg to stand on :-\
-
I can't see the pic?
-
Huskibul can you scan the pages and post it here?
-
Iam not real good with computers/scanners etc john but will try to rope my young bloke in sometime if you can wait a while, i had to sell my B but would still like to help you guys "put it right" :)
-
Adelaide 1977 Anthony Gunter. Alloy arm and floating rear brake
(https://7nu5jw.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p4sugTudISFghpCKuxF_DhT7UYVwBj6L7SLoErk2l524y8Tz973B7fhIlmY1-SkazqmwvXLuWRHCTO3-mpjN0tBcRqVpMmu8N/1977%20Adelaide%20A%20Gunter%20RM250B.jpg?psid=1)
Is that a 125 Doc ???
-
Better still, I have sent you a PM with my mailing address. I will definitely arrange a meeting with MA and would love to take your third edition book with me. I will guarantee its safety and return it immediately after they have viewed it
Cheers
-
Iam not real good with computers/scanners etc john but will try to rope my young bloke in sometime if you can wait a while, i had to sell my B but would still like to help you guys "put it right" :)
Sounds good mate..
-
Well I guess we are all putting our opinion in for the 3rd or 4th time so here we go again :-)
1) The swingarm is listed in a 1977 parts list.
2) The part is listed for a 1977 B model.
3) Other brands of alloy swingarms are allowed for Pre 78.
4) There is a difference between C swingarms and B.
5) Someone needs to come up with a pic, from 1977, of a bike with the swingarm being used - Game over.
we've been through all this before John .I supplied a pic from MXA 1977 some years ago. Alloy swingarm and floating rear brake on Gunters 370B.
-
Wouldn't huskibuls edition be the one you want? Not the third edition as its too late in the year. If it has it as an option from as far back as 76 then that's the proof you need.
So will a converted c swing arm be okay then? Or should it be a real deal one? Surely one could change one so you couldn't tell one from the other.
In the end it's nothing like a period aftermarket cool part in my eyes. Gimme a dg or a Thor any day. ;D
-
Yep you are right 090. My mistake. The 76 book is the one I will be needing if it is ok with Huskibul
-
Just to throw a spanner in the works have a look at the rear brake setup on the RM250A brochure
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc374/JohnnyO31/Vintage%20mx%20bikes/RM250A.jpg)
-
Mark. Read my posts.
I did read your posts Ted. I wasn't writing about you're case specifically, I was generalising.
As I said earlier I don't know what's kosher about the RM125B alloy swingarm but I do know that our esteemed rule book has the over riding statement that to be eligible for a particular division the bike or major component must be of the "designated year" as described by the factory. Although there are a lot of discrepancies with the description, overall it's worked pretty well. For a long time Bultaco owners cried from the mountain tops that because the Mk8 Pursang was available in 1974, it must surely be eligible for pre 75. The reason it's not allowed is that the Mk 8 is designated by the factory as the 1975 model....end of argument.
Now, allow me to play the devils advocate for a moment. I think it's a given that the Suzuki RM125-B is legal for the pre -78 class using the factory steel swing arm. Would it be a possibility that the optional alloy swingarm might be a designated 1978 factory update? If that's indeed the case, I'd say that the swingarm is not legal by standards of precedent. I'll give an example, I can't use a 1" longer 1975 Maico swing arm on my 1974 model even though the 1975 model was released in late 1974. And another...you're not allowed to use a modified alloy Pro-Link swingarm from an 81 CR250 Honda on your 80 model twin shocker.
The factories often played the year pushing game by calling a particular updated part the following years part..i.e. the RM-B swingarm being touted as a 1978 update (even though it was sold in 1977). I don't have a strong opinion either way on this but if a precedent has been set by other situations, you have to go with the results of that precedent.
-
Back on Page 3 i asked if anybody knew the ruling from MA word for word.......nil response
Back on Page 4 i made a claim that nobody has ever formally challenged MA......nil response
Noel, I'm with you.... Looks like an urban myth to me
-
Mark. Read my posts.
I did read your posts Ted. I wasn't writing about you're case specifically, I was generalising.
As I said earlier I don't know what's kosher about the RM125B alloy swingarm but I do know that our esteemed rule book has the over riding statement that to be eligible for a particular division the bike or major component must be of the "designated year" as described by the factory. Although there are a lot of discrepancies with the description, overall it's worked pretty well. For a long time Bultaco owners cried from the mountain tops that because the Mk8 Pursang was available in 1974, it must surely be eligible for pre 75. The reason it's not allowed is that the Mk 8 is designated by the factory as the 1975 model....end of argument.
Now, allow me to play the devils advocate for a moment. I think it's a given that the Suzuki RM125-B is legal for the pre -78 class using the factory steel swing arm. Would it be a possibility that the optional alloy swingarm might be a designated 1978 factory update? If that's indeed the case, I'd say that the swingarm is not legal by standards of precedent. I'll give an example, I can't use a 1" longer 1975 Maico swing arm on my 1974 model even though the 1975 model was released in late 1974. And another...you're not allowed to use a modified alloy Pro-Link swingarm from an 81 CR250 Honda on your 80 model twin shocker.
The factories often played the year pushing game by calling a particular updated part the following years part..i.e. the RM-B swingarm being touted as a 1978 update (even though it was sold in 1977). I don't have a strong opinion either way on this but if a precedent has been set by other situations, you have to go with the results of that precedent.
Following that train of thinking if i can prove that in a 1976 parts book that there was a alloy swingarm option available for a 1977 B model surely that would make it available and legal for the following year being 1977
-
This is so simple, if you're going to ride the Nats take it to scrutineering and see if it passes. If it doesn't, the myth ends there ;D.
-
Why would I waste my time ( maybe ) doing that. I will nip it in the bud as soon as MA opens its doors after xmas
-
JohnnyO.....PM sent
-
Here is a page from an online parts book showing the arm, it's all i've got for now til i get a copy of the genuine Suzuki parts book..
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc374/JohnnyO31/RM125B008.jpg)
-
Hmmm that is interesting the RM250A with a floating rear brake.
That sure looks like a 125B optional arm on Anthony's 370, they can be easily modified to fit. I would have thought that they'd run 125B forks as so many back in the day did?
I love this crap coming up again, makes me smile :-)
-
On Page 3 is the official Suzuki diagram straight from the parts book
-
When I say "a pic from 77" I mean I have seen a pic in a '77 Revs or AMCN of Anthony Gunter with the alloy arm. I guess if you can see the printed date of the paper in the pic - game over.
That would be perfect if there are any around.
I already did that when this was on the forum some years ago.
MXA NOV 77 page 36/37. The article was by Jeff Keen.When I posted it way back then someone replied that all we need to do now is find this guy!
-
When I say "a pic from 77" I mean I have seen a pic in a '77 Revs or AMCN of Anthony Gunter with the alloy arm. I guess if you can see the printed date of the paper in the pic - game over.
That would be perfect if there are any around.
I already did that when this was on the forum some years ago.
Probably worth another shot now Brent.
-
Hmmm that is interesting the RM250A with a floating rear brake.
That sure looks like a 125B optional arm on Anthony's 370, they can be easily modified to fit. I would have thought that they'd run 125B forks as so many back in the day did?
I love this crap coming up again, makes me smile :-)
This is an optional arm for a 250 / 370 B ;)
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e204/tmbill/RM370arm001_zps3925c90b.jpg)
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e204/tmbill/RM370arm002_zpsca2e6a92.jpg)
-
Hmmm that is interesting the RM250A with a floating rear brake.
That sure looks like a 125B optional arm on Anthony's 370, they can be easily modified to fit. I would have thought that they'd run 125B forks as so many back in the day did?
I love this crap coming up again, makes me smile :-)
The 250/370 had an optional alloy arm as well. They did run the 125B forks on Grunt's big bore bikes.
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc374/JohnnyO31/Old%20days/Gunter77.jpg)
-
From RM 125 parts book 3rd edition dated NOV 1976 ;)
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e204/tmbill/001-4_zps691a5bd9.jpg)
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e204/tmbill/002-3_zps6a37712b.jpg)
-
Here's a couple of pics i had from back in the day of Grant McCrae and Stewart MacLauchlan using the optional alloy arm in '77 but unfortunately the pics aren't clear enough..
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc374/JohnnyO31/Old%20days/GrantMacraeRM250C1.jpg)
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc374/JohnnyO31/Old%20days/StewartC1.jpg)
-
Great find Bill....Would it be possible to send me that book so as to take it to MA.
I will guarantee its safety and return it immediately after they view it. I will not leave it with them for clarification.
There is no forking way that any sane person can argue that this alloy arm came out first in 78 after the c model was introduced
Cheers
-
Great find Bill....Would it be possible to send me that book so as to take it to MA.
I will guarantee its safety and return it immediately after they view it. I will not leave it with them for clarification.
There is no forking way that any sane person can argue that this alloy arm came out first in 78 after the c model was introduced
Cheers
Whats the point? A friend of mine was told at the broadford Nats that his genuine FMF alloy arm on his RM125 was illegal and was made to drive back home for a magazine ad for proof.
-
Ted I think you are missing something and I genuinely don't care either way. Just because it is listed in a parts book is not enough. I would think you need to prove it was genuinely available to riders. Gunters bike most likely had pre-production parts on it supplied by Suzuki the same as Gall's Yamaha and several other top riders and if that is the case then it is not legal.
More importantly can anyone tell me what late model foot pegs fit an RM125B ;D ;D
-
I will take the info to MA head office, not to some track where as some under the pump official is getting hammered by anyone that has an opinion.
That's the point
-
No worries Ted send us your address
Bill
-
Greg, I am waiting for Suzuki to answer a request I put to them being
1 ... What was the MSRP for tha rm 125 b alloy arm
2 ....when did it go on sale
3 .....How many have been sold prior to 01 / 01 / 1978
-
Hey Ted!
I'm at the pub gettn pissed...
paint it black like the rolling stones did and for gods sake,
don't tell anyone on the net about it... ;D
-
Ted that sounds more like the details you need to support your case just using parts books are just not enough.
-
Ted I think you are missing something and I genuinely don't care either way. Just because it is listed in a parts book is not enough. I would think you need to prove it was genuinely available to riders. Gunters bike most likely had pre-production parts on it supplied by Suzuki the same as Gall's Yamaha and several other top riders and if that is the case then it is not legal.
More importantly can anyone tell me what late model foot pegs fit an RM125B ;D ;D
Monty , so by your way of thinking a works bike or part that wasn't available to the public is not allowed? I don't think that that is the case, the book goes by manufactured date .ie a works bike made in 77 it is eligible for pre 78 ..... but who knows its a dogs breakfast.
-
Common sense should come here and one would think that there is no real huge advantage over standard.
-
Whats the point? A friend of mine was told at the broadford Nats that his genuine FMF alloy arm on his RM125 was illegal and was made to drive back home for a magazine ad for proof.
Seems like every official has a different take on the rules. I rode the '09 Conondale Nats and the '12 Wyaralong Nats with a DG arm on my RM250B without a word said and the bike was checked over pretty closely at both..
-
Agreed. I am not doing it to create an advantage. You would have to fit it with a V8 to give me an advantage
I am doing it because the bike came fitted with it. It is a perfectly correct period part manufactured by Suzuki that was manufactured in 1976 as we are all witnessing.
-
Ted I think you are missing something and I genuinely don't care either way. Just because it is listed in a parts book is not enough. I would think you need to prove it was genuinely available to riders. Gunters bike most likely had pre-production parts on it supplied by Suzuki the same as Gall's Yamaha and several other top riders and if that is the case then it is not legal.
More importantly can anyone tell me what late model foot pegs fit an RM125B ;D ;D
Monty , so by your way of thinking a works bike or part that wasn't available to the public is not allowed? I don't think that that is the case, the book goes by manufactured date .ie a works bike made in 77 it is eligible for pre 78 ..... but who knows its a dogs breakfast.
Oh no not the works bike and parts discussion again read the MOMS.
-
Hey Ted!
I'm at the pub gettn pissed...
paint it black like the rolling stones did and for gods sake,
don't tell anyone on the net about it... ;D
Advice taken
You and your mate Stefarrrnnn, the human hairdo , have a safe and happy Xmas.
-
Ted, who at SUZUKI is going to help, oldest employee started in 1984,
SAPL 1982,
Cornell's before that,
Hazell & Moore before that,
Mayfairs and Mortlocks are long gone,
Russell Burling in NZ might have access to Coleman's records,
Alan Craig from Boolaroo might have records as he purchased H&M in Newcastle, I will ask,
John Owens Suzuki Belmont had two different arms and I got them both twenty five years ago
Niether are the same as the B kit or the C more like 75 RH250 and came off a RM250A and 370 B
I hunted a supossedly ex Gunter 370 B fitted with Foxshox and an alloy arm from Tamworth in 1988 but that is a Thor arm.
-
Ted, who at SUZUKI is going to help, oldest employee started in 1984,
SAPL 1982,
Cornell's before that,
Hazell & Moore before that,
Mayfairs and Mortlocks are long gone,
Russell Burling in NZ might have access to Coleman's records,
Alan Craig from Boolaroo might have records as he purchased H&M in Newcastle, I will ask,
John Owens Suzuki Belmont had two different arms and I got them both twenty five years ago
Niether are the same as the B kit or the C more like 75 RH250 and came off a RM250A and 370 B
I hunted a supossedly ex Gunter 370 B fitted with Foxshox and an alloy arm from Tamworth in 1988 but that is a Thor arm.
You would contact either Peter Jones; was Suzuki Aust Service Manager in the 70's, now at Yamaha Aust or Colin Iskov ex Suzuki Spare Parts Manager in the 70's, also now at Yamaha Aust (in NSW). Tell'em John Orchard sent you ;-)
In the 70's the Suzuki & Yamaha importers was owned by Alec Milledge, hence the Yamaha Aust link, I was Service Manager for Alec's Daughter (Libby) when he backed her to import Moto Guzzi & Benelli about 10 years ago.
I was also second in charge, to Colin Iskov, at Yamaha Aust Spare Parts Dept in the 80's, hence my knowledge of the situation.
-
I live a few doors up from Peter of Peter Stevens ,talk to him now and then but I wouldn't bother him or anyone of those already mentioned with any of this BS just for the sake of proving a point to a few numbskulls that weren't around or don't remember the past.
-
will take the info to MA head office, not to some track where as some under the pump official is getting hammered by anyone that has an opinion.
Yeah, that'll work just as well as you knocking on the door of Parliament House to personally ask Julia to repeal the Carbon Tax ::). Ted, there's a process to go through for this stuff. You've been around this sport for long enough to know that, I touched on it in an earlier post and I'm sure Scrivo's mapped out the process to you as well but here goes anyway.......
Write up a proposal, attach all of your written proof that the swingarm is eligible and submit it to the Commission via your club secretary. It'll then be considered along with everyone elses submissions at next years AGM. Too much trouble, too much bullshit, too slow in this instant gratification society? Yep it is, but that's the way these situations roll like it or not. If this is important to you, do it the same way I and others who've had a problem with rulings have had to do in the past.
-
It's all too hard is it.BooHoo
I will get an answer one way or another
Will keep all informed as proceedings come to hand
Now lock this thread up. Enough said
-
Ted I think you are missing something and I genuinely don't care either way. Just because it is listed in a parts book is not enough. I would think you need to prove it was genuinely available to riders. Gunters bike most likely had pre-production parts on it supplied by Suzuki the same as Gall's Yamaha and several other top riders and if that is the case then it is not legal.
More importantly can anyone tell me what late model foot pegs fit an RM125B ;D ;D
Monty , so by your way of thinking a works bike or part that wasn't available to the public is not allowed? I don't think that that is the case, the book goes by manufactured date .ie a works bike made in 77 it is eligible for pre 78 ..... but who knows its a dogs breakfast.
Oh no not the works bike and parts discussion again read the MOMS.
I have been reading it since the pre78 protest at Conondale.Maybe my copy has some pages missing?
-
Zzzzzzzzz merry Xmas men.
-
It's all too hard is it.BooHoo
I will get an answer one way or another
Will keep all informed as proceedings come to hand
Now lock this thread up. Enough said
Appreciate what you are trying to do .Good luck but the answer is already there.The problem lies in the interpretation of the written rules on raceday.
-
On the advice of Motorcycling NSW I have submitted my proposal to the Classic Dirt Sports Committee for an adjudication.
Will keep all interested with their response
-
good luck ted ive got my c swingarm waiting
-
What was the out come of all this???? I suspect that MA said no. There is a GCR 18.2.1.2 That says "The onus of proof of eligibility shall rest wholly upon the rider or entrant of the machine. Service and Parts Manual publication dates are not proof of eligibility ". If MA did say no, did they say what they do except as proof? I asked someone who worked at (and raced for) Phil Thew Moto in 1977. He said that the alloy swing arms were available for all three bikes 125, 250 and 370. The photos of Stewart McLachlan, Grant McCrae and Anthony Gunter show this. There has to be a way to prove they are legal. That is genuine ones not modified C ones.