OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Vintage Track => Topic started by: 52 on June 29, 2011, 04:25:12 pm
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Whats the thought?
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It's about bums on seats of old bikes .....age groups are covered in MOMs if that's where your heading.
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I don't have a problem with it, until the day comes when I jag a second place behind one at a title meeting. :P
Honestly I agree with oldfart, bums on seats, they'll eventually be the ones that carry the sport.
Best of luck in the U.S. Pete.
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They are a pain in the ass..they swap out all over the place...they talk with metal in there faces...they have too many tattoo's...they have listening difficulties from constant earphones glued to their heads and we are deaf from old age :'( ::) .....they have six packs,they are fit,they pull all the chick and ride a Maico with ease.... but we love em cause we need em ..... ;D
cheers A
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If you take Donny newell and Col Metcher and co. into consideration, the rest of us are 'young fellas' :D
Nah, more power to 'em I say.
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For the statistically minded:-
2011 Australian Dirt track Championships--riders by age.
Under 20---4, 20-29----10[most under 25] 30-39---11 40-49----41 50-59----32
60-69---9 70+----3 Couldn't read---2
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obvisley you have a problem with the young ones riding the classic bikes,so why not tell us the reason.
it seems this same post comes up every time there is a national or big event.
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Apparently the guy who protested about Justin Burdus's RM250 in the pre 78 class, was also mouthing off about young fella's riding in a classic event.
Justin managed to rub their noses in it by winning the EVO 250's.
That young bloke Glen Evans has been a thorn in your side for a while Pete ;D
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There was no protest by a rider against Justin's RM, it was knocked back by the eligibility scrutineer for Pre78 as it is not legal for that class. I observed the discussions regarding this issue and the mutually agreed solution. It was great to see Justins success in the Evo and the way the parties conducted themselves. I heard no rider "mouthing off" relative to that discussion or any reference to the rider's age.
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Point taken Col, protest is the wrong word but it was pointed out to the scrutineers by someone and the
mouthing was happening while they were at the back of the line.
They did him a favour in the end because he probably would've won the pre78's and it would've been very dissapointing for him then.
At the end of the day the correct decision was made and everyone came away happy.
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Without the younger gens learning how to fix and maintain and ride , race. There wont be any growth and it will just decline. the Age grouping in pre 75 events now sorts out the feild for the old one who like to do there thing in comfort. So its covered.
We have an issue in classic speedway where they are trying to limit it to over 35's, basically it would be killing it as the ones that ride are under 50 and the old ones complaining dont even ride !!! So who going to do the riding when they also move on or to them a 2000 model is old shit and as far back as they are interested in ( sounds like the number of vic entries i have for the NAts so for - were are these scamble guys ? ) anyway i digress.
Without getting the younger gens to ride the 2 valves now we are in the problem potenially the will disappear cause there not raced and if a young gen like me gets one but cant get handover of the knowledge to fix them and keep them going the bikes will be lost and they will be extinct from racing forever.
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Oldfart I dont think 52's heading anywhere with this one other than to ask for our thoughts. If it heads or goes somewhere so be it.
Hands up all the say forty five or fifty or fifty five plus year olds that have a modern and compete regularly in open Dirt Track or MX meetings.
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I have a modern and couldnt care less about competing with the young guys at a modern event; its not my thing. Eventually the lease I have on my bikes will see them handed over to someone else (you think you own something but you dont your only the custodian while alive).
Eventually the younger guys will have to be more involved, the 20 somethings of today will be the 40 somethings of the future and so on; when I started VMX I was in the under 30 class and the hot ticket was the 30-39 class now Im in the 50 plus old farts - time will catch up and take us all.
On the subject of the RM250 can I say with some knowledge that I rejected that bike for the pre 78 class at machinery, it was a B with a C front and we put him into the EVO class. He was very happy and complient and thought he had a pre 78 bike but was happy to be told he didnt. There was no protest and Justin handled himself very well both on the track and at machinery (to his credit).
There were others who were simply a pain in the arse, rude and agressive and as someone who gives a considerable amount of my time to the sport - freely, it was a blight on my weekend.
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Interesting response, the subject always comes up.
Can only agree with the census, thanks for the breakup with stats Col.
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You're not wrong there Dave, the way Justin and his father Steve handled that setback was the way it should be and it's a credit to you guys that you were able to accomodate him in the next class up, they bought the bike thinking it was a pre 78 legal bike.
The way other boneheads go on must be dissapointing.
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i was next to dave for both occasions,he handled the rm situation very well with no agro on either side a credit to dave and the young bloke.however the other tool should have been excluded from the event for his completely unacceptable behaviour-aggresive and downright rude.all because he didnt want to bring HIS boots back,showed himself to be an absolute wanker and detrimental to the sport..big wrap to everyone else didnt hear any whinging
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i think its great young blokes riding old bikes. its like they appreciate the old bikes and the sports history. i have asked a few 18 year olds why they ride them and the comment is always that "its cheaper and the racing more fun". regarding mx i think if modern mxers had a go at vmx i think we woulg get flooded with young racers!! and thanks dave and all of the many volunteers that allow others to race.
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it`s all in the up bringing, justin is a well mannered bloke not like some in his club.well done to him and his oldman.a great father/son relationship there, a sidecar team in the making.
as for the heading "young blokes riding the classics" if the pre 90 rule gets up we will not have juiniors riding them.
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THE KID ON THE RED TRUMPY TWIN
WAS GOOD TO WATCH
SPOKE TO HIM AND HIS DAD AFTER
GREAT GUYS
SHOULD BE MORE OF IT
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Funny you should say that Micks, it sounds like Justin is keen to ride a Sidecar but I can't see Steve hanging off one.
I reckon Ian Burkett should swing for him.
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The younger generation are good for the sport. I started racing the older bikes in my late twenties and I've grown to appreciate them for what they are and how far the technology has come. Before that, the old bikes were just shitboxes that the old man spent way too much time working on. It blows me away that the very bike my old man used to idle around the yard with us on the tank as 2 & 3 year olds is the same bike that I race as a 32 year old. And that bike is 3 years older than me! Little did I know. ;D
As a spectator, some of the younger riders do the bikes justice. I remember watching Ben Coleman (once a very fast junior prospect down here in Vic) laying a 250 Bultaco absolutely flat over a tabletop at Barrabool. It was spectacular and totally nuts at the same time.
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We have young school kids riding vmx with us in Unzud,they start at rear of grid and are watched whilst wearing a fluro jacket. When starter is happy fluro jacket comes off and they are just one of the boys.
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If you dont incourage/allow the wipper snappers to play with us the sport will die....pretty simple really.......you have to go forward......I cant wait to see a Grandfather/son/ grandson out on the track one day!!
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Im with you Davey :D
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me 3 Davey tho how we'll get 3 on the Wasp is a worry :D :D
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In my opinion as others have said we need the young riders, as it creates the father & son combination.I loaned one of my bikes to Toby Tyson CR250 (21yrs old his father is Paul Tyson 744 from Griffith in the 70's) but would of liked to also enter my son (16yrs & he would of kicked arse, not saying this because he is my lad)) but I didn't need the flack to come out what happened at Raymond Terrace. I got enough crap from other riders about Toby riding my bike.
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to come out that happened at Raymond Terrace.
Wait till the Classic Nats in Crystal Brook SA,,,young ones ever were :o ..... give em something to talk about ;D
cheers A
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As a spectator, some of the younger riders do the bikes justice. It was spectacular and totally nuts at the same time.
I have had the pleasure of watching Glen Bell at his peak on a '73 CR250 lap Stanmore and I can't really stress just how hard and fast he was going, was quite unbelievable and made me wonder if the top guys back in the day were also that fast (taking modern riding techniques and fitness into account).
There was a 21 year old who won the ages just ahead of Chris Maindonald (2 very spectacular and bloody fast riders to watch) also on a CR250 at Tununda Oz Champs and I believe he broke the frame - at the presentation he didn't appear and I jokingly yelled out "he had to go to bed" refering to his age and the guy who took the trophy for him confirmed that he had indeed gone to bed!
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good to see young ones ride classics,.... if it was all year round, funny that they enter the aussies, one and only ride on a classic all year, and come and take all the championships away from the older riders, who ride and race there classics all year round.
pretty fair racing your classic at aussie titles, 48 year olds versus 20 year olds
the way its going we will lose all the older riders at aussie titles, for every 20 year old racing the titles, we loose 2 older classic riders, we want to race against our own age groups, not against kids, if that wasnt the case, I personally would race my sons crf250, and 450 in the moderns against them
how many of the young guys, who raced the aussie DT nats, are coming down to canberra, in august to race the aussie senior nats, on their modern bikes, or is it 2 hard for them
OR DO WE JUST ENTER THE CLASSIC NATS AND CREAM THE OLD GUYS
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Very Valid point Elsie. I hadn't even considered that but it is a real issue when you think of it in that light. The other thing is a lot of them would be put there by their dads as not too many yougnsters would like to be caught dead on an "old shitter"(their words-not mine) so dad does all the prep and paperwork and the boys gets the trophies.
Even more ammo for full age brackets at the title meets.
It will be more evident at the MX titles where fitness is more involved but a keen edge is needed at the DT and we loose that as we age(gracefully) :D
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elsie 125 has a point, but how about a ex pro rider turns up.say shaun giles turned up on a pre 85 hasn`t race any club or opens but comes to aus champs cleans up the title year after year.i think that would hurt the class more so than a young bloke.
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well said Olmate, the NBJMCC had to pay for flag marshals due to terminal aparthary by BMCC and QVMX members. I think that pisses me off more than anything else because the people who are the least able to do the work tend to be the ones doing it and the ones who never do any work are the wingers at a meeting.
211
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elsie 125 has a point, but how about a ex pro rider turns up.say shaun giles turned up on a pre 85 hasn`t race any club or opens but comes to aus champs cleans up the title year after year.i think that would hurt the class more so than a young bloke.
That would be no different to when Ron Dinsdale and Andy Caldecott turned up year after year and won titles.. i can't see any damage done from then.
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you do that then you will have to bring in a weight rule. why should thin tall guys have to race against small light guys. why shoudl the fatties also be disadvantaged ? You already have age races just make sure the clubs keep pushing it.
Buglars are always a problem in anysport but its a national event and you also find old rider who only ride this event and not ANY local rounds.
The only other way is to do handicap races......................
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good to see young ones ride classics,.... if it was all year round, funny that they enter the aussies, one and only ride on a classic all year, and come and take all the championships away from the older riders, who ride and race there classics all year round.
pretty fair racing your classic at aussie titles, 48 year olds versus 20 year olds
the way its going we will lose all the older riders at aussie titles, for every 20 year old racing the titles, we loose 2 older classic riders, we want to race against our own age groups, not against kids, if that wasnt the case, I personally would race my sons crf250, and 450 in the moderns against them
how many of the young guys, who raced the aussie DT nats, are coming down to canberra, in august to race the aussie senior nats, on their modern bikes, or is it 2 hard for them
OR DO WE JUST ENTER THE CLASSIC NATS AND CREAM THE OLD GUYS
I dont believe many kids think like that Elsie 125..
Its a National vmx pilgramige for the family..
We are not seeing some kids rockin up in there Vans to blitzs the old guys.
Its been mentioned before that we are gettin three generations racing now with age races at National level and club level if club days run with the age class's.
We are getting a nice balance now and its going ok.let it roll..
How old where the podium riders at DT in Brisbane in non age class's ?
cheers A
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the podiums of non aged races were filled with the younger ones,
my point is, we race and spend a lot of money 2 support our national champs, to have fathers and others entering young ones in the championships,
the younger ones have the modern DT championships,
if the young ones want to enter, have a 16 to 29year class, and they can all ride in that class,
I no of 10 classic riders who dont ride the nats, because of young guys entering, and taking the championships from the older guys, and taken them out in the past
put an age limit on the classes, and I bet the numbers increase in older guys
last year at griffith, I had a great battle with one of the local riders, we were the same age, and we battled it out all weekend, and took home 2nd and 3rd
this year a 20 year old is riding his bike, got caught up in the gates, and still won the race
I am also having second thoughts on entering another nats again, just go and enjoy the classics at our club days, were I race 500s on my 250, but at least we are the same age
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have a 16 to 29year class, and they can all ride in that class,
Cool..how did you think the day went for time...would this extra class fill it too much ?
or
other class's be dropped on entry amount for this 16-29 age race.
cheers A
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if the 16 to 29 years class didnt have enuff entries, it would then be a support class, if we were running behind on time, then the support classes would be dropped, but if it was a champioship, with 5 rounds and a practice, well then there is only another 20mins added 2 the program
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This is where the forum is at it's best.
I can understand where Elsie is coming from, he explained it pretty well.
Sadly that's part of motorsport, history is full of someone turning up at a Title event with some unexpected advantage ( some legal, some not ) and take home the silverware.
I don't think there is an easy solution apart from banning riders under a certain age but where do you set that age limit.
Freaky's Handicap suggestion could cause even more debate, the crowd loved the Handicap races at the Syd Showground but I know the riders hated them.
I think the looming split in bike aged classes will certainly free up the time restraints on programming an event like the DT titles so lets wait and see.
I think we'd all agree the battle between Justin Burdus 20 and Grant Dodd 19 in the Evo 250 class was worth the price of admission alone, they both rode safely and bloody fast.
I don't know what the answere is but we'll find it.
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Interesting reading . At Nudgee there where 12 * 16- 30 yrs entered 5 trophies , 30-49yrs 48 entries & 10 trophies 50yrs & over 41 entries got the rest.If there are sufficient entries for a class in the over 30yrs (meaning 10 per class the 16-29yrs )should ran as a support class. But if we need to combine the ages to get a Aussie status event so be it. I was up against 21 yrs olds (46 yrs old is my age not 43 as per program)& came second to 41 yrs old. This is Aussie Titles not a Club day if you want to be at the pointy end then ride like you want to be there.We can all blame someone else but look at the mirror & maybe put the throltle return spring on the other side of the carby slide.
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Just looking through the sup regs for Crystal Brook Classic MX...and the age class's are only pre75 (16-29) :o ..now I presume this will maybe more of an irritant for the older Nats riders,which will be watched by the hosting future Nats Club..
Numbers will deterimin the support class/16-30 age race.
I'd think they would be more inclided to race the pre85 bikes...as been said before we are in interesting time and be very intreging to see how it turns out in the next 2 years of the split for cmx.
ps we have a rm125 79 to be entered by a 17yr old.
cheers A
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My point exactly Grasy, it was a national event, open to all comers.
I remember the 74 OZ Speedway title at the Syd Showground, all the focus was on the Sydney boy's until Crumpy snr went out in his first heat and smashed the track record on the MKI Streety, no one got near him all night and the scramble for a 4 Valve conversion after that was amazing to experience.
There are heaps of ways to achieve an advantage in motorsport, an open cheque book certainly helps but youth may not be available to most of us anymore.
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i think people are just making excuses. if your not good enough to be at the pointy end thats it your just not good enough. no good blaming young blokes. all young blokes dont run at the pointy end. we have age classes and if the numbers support a younger age bracket in the future then include it in the program. but if you get beaten no excuses. enjoy the racing and the challenges of the sport. i go to an aussie or state title because of the status and excitement of the event. its a buzz compared to a club day. i will never be at the front but i bloody enjoy having a go.
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Having a title on one day or week-end will always bring this up. If we had a series, then all competitors would have to commit to it and foresake the other events, thereby not poaching a title.
The other thing I thought of was having a tie-breaker at presentation-something like a bench racing session. That way the best story would win and those young whipper-snappers wouldn't get a look in. Not with some of the bullshit we can spin. :D :D :D
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i think people are just making excuses. if your not good enough to be at the pointy end thats it your just not good enough. no good blaming young blokes. all young blokes dont run at the pointy end. we have age classes and if the numbers support a younger age bracket in the future then include it in the program. but if you get beaten no excuses. enjoy the racing and the challenges of the sport. i go to an aussie or state title because of the status and excitement of the event. its a buzz compared to a club day. i will never be at the front but i bloody enjoy having a go.
328 has got it right.it is a buzz a state or national event ,i went along under no illusions of winning or placing.it was for the buzz and the ride,talking with like minded people about bikes etc and watching the fast blokes whether they are young or old.look at lawn bowls it was an old blokes sport and dying along withe the old diggers that played along came younger people and now it is in the commonwealth games!
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Guys did you not have a great time at the Nats ? I know I did.
If you really do not want to race a younger rider then buy a pre 75 bike or a slider.
You may want to consider that the slider class has a 30 yr restriction placed on it and look at the number of entries.
Do you want to see that happen to the other classes.
In short I think the current format caters for all, please leave it alone.
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I’m 44yrs and started racing Classics in the late 90’s because I enjoy working on bikes as much as racing them and after I started a family I wanted to compete against guys of similar age with similar responsibilities.
I must have been wearing a blouse at the 09 Nats in Raymund Terrace because I was intimidated by the speed, skill and aggression of the young guys that were competing at that event because I sold my pre 74 bike and gave the sport away to compete in Triathalons.
With a new found fitness the lure of the Nudgee Nats was too much so I bought a second pre85 bike and entered after not twisting a throttle in over 18months. I must admit I got a little scared at the speed and aggression of the young guys again (I think I was the only one over 30 in the pre85 up to 250 class) but I snapped out of it and even beat them all in a couple of racers. I have to compliment Grant Dodd on his smooth and sensible racing.
Back in the 90’s at modern major dirt track events there were support classes for classic bikes, usually just one or two divisions of all year model bikes combined. Just a suggestion for 16 to 29 yrs at Classic events how about 2 classes, pre78 and older and Evo to pre 90 as 2 separate support classes all capacities combined, this way they could get two rides on 2 bikes like most of us.
If we really want to introduce the younger set to Classic bikes to keep the sport going how about letting under 16yrs have some track time on old bikes under 250cc at Classic Dirt style events? I missed the last 2 CD events because my 10yr old could not ride his Yamy GT80 that he done a top end rebuild on himself.
Now I have told my little story what do I think of ‘Young blokes riding Classics’? I appreciate the competition and the grid being full so I will just have to try harder, find the time and money to ride more often if I want my moment of glory.
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My feeling on this is that it's all in the way that you look at a title event
If the event is national classics or state classic it refers to the age of the machinery.
Bearing this in mind we enthusiasts are there to watch various MOTORCYCLES from a specific time period perform at their best.
The age of the rider is secondary.
Because I am over 70 I am quite pleased that a super senior classic is now included as a 'feature' at these events.
I can fully understand the dilema as may be seen by some and hear the thoughts on here about repercussions to the classic nature of the sport but I personally enjoy it whatever.
The only other way for others who think the younger riders on classic machines is not fair to senior riders is for a different approach along the lines of a CLASSIC MASTERS TYPE OF EVENT. cheers pancho.