OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: mudguard on September 13, 2010, 10:16:33 pm
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Is pre 90 class too close to moderns and too far from vintage at this point in time?
I ask the question because pre 85 seems to be a fair bit advanced in Suspension, engine and ergonomics, than Evo or earlier classes.
If pre 90 class raced as vmx at the same events / tracks, as say pre 75 class, I would imagine that pre 90 riders would find events boring. These newer classes, pre 90, are so much advanced that they scream for more challenging tracks. How can vmx clubs accommodate the broad difference to suit bike era to tracks? :)
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Thats one of the reasons for the proposal to have Evo, pre 85 and pre 90 at their own nats and the older classes at their own nats.
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I think a lot of people throw a lot of red herrings into this discussion. I'll try to be concise...
1. Suspension.
Now that PD valves are cheap and easy to get, the one definite advantage that pre-90s had (cartridge forks) has mostly disappeared. PDV equipped evo bikes will be very nearly as good as the best pre-90 forks. Remember that the early USDs were all pretty shit.
At the rear, modern shocks/internals will bring an Evo bike close to the level of the best pre-90s. The amount of rising rate that's built into a 2010 rear end is only marginally more than an Evo bike with laid-foward shocks - and its tiny. As Tom68 said elsewhere, the bump-stop provides far more progression! The real advantage of pre-85/pre-90 style linkages is weight placement.
2. Brake wise, a pre-90 will have more-or-less the same front brakes as a pre-85 bike. In turn, a clean, properly set-up TLS drum is nearly as good as a pre-90 disc - the disc's real advantages are in the mud and that it requires less maintenance.
Rear discs are the same story - on a properly maintained MX bike, they offer a very marginal improvement in lap times.
3. Engines. Pre-85 is a big leap, compared to Evo - water-cooling, better factory ignitions and exhaust power valves make for a clear technological leap. From Pre-85 to pre-90, the steps are smaller - better power valves, more widespread use of plated cylinders, and the usual incremental changes.
Compared to a modern 2-stroke, the pre-90s are still lacking things like long stroke motors, 3D ignitions, solenoid controlled power jets, and another 20 years of incremental improvements.
It is also worth noting that a lot of new tech has already found its way onto (even) pre-70 bikes - so the stuff like good ignitions and modern pipe designs is irrelevant for the purpose of this discussion - you can assume that ALL serious VMX race bikes have it.
4. Other stuff. What is there?
Ergonomics were incrementally improved, but pre-90s have still got banana seats and low, rear mounted handlebars - they are long way a modern bike! Moderns run very flat seats (with rounded profiles), the bars a long way forward and typically very high. Moderns are also much narrower between the legs (I originally typed "pre-90 bikes are fat between the legs" but I knew that Turtle wouldn't be able to resist...)
Cosmetics. Again, steps foward(?) with fashion, but still a long way from anything like a modern.
Anyone who thinks that a pre-90 is 'just like a modern' hasn't ridden a modern. To seriously state that because a bike has dual discs, water cooling and USD forks that it must perform similarly to a new bike, is like saying that a XF Fairmont is just like a FG XR6...
By the same token, I'd love to see how much you'd have to pay Jay Marmont to race a 1989 YZ250 for the National MX title, no matter how much you tricked it up. If the 21 year old bike was even vaguely competitive, then I'm sure he and CDR would jump at the opportunity... ::)
Now... the riders. This gets a bit harder to make straight-foward statements about, but I'll try.
a) Everyone loves grass track MX, even young guys on moderns (look at Amcross, the old Thumper Nats, etc). There is absolutely no reason to assume that pre-90 riders will somehow be an exception to this rule.
b) The fast guys are the fast guys, no matter what you put them on. There's talk of pre-90 somehow resulting in an influx of lunatic 18 year old gun riders, but those same guys are either not interested in old bikes, or are already racing in VMX. If it turns out that I'm wrong, and we do get an influx of loonies, then at least they'll be in the pre-90 class where they won't bother the nay-sayers.
c) The guys who are keen on pre-90s because they are the bikes they have a connection with, are all in their late 30s or older. How old were most of the riders back in the early days of VMX (when it was only pre-75)? Did the older blokes stand around bitching about those 38 year old young lunatics then?
d) There was lots of talk about how Evo/pre-80 riders would demand rougher tracks, but it didn't happen. Then there was all of the same talk about pre-85 riders doing the same, but that didn't happen either. The greatest "crime" the Evo+ riders have committed, is being tolerant of newer-style tracks - but modern clubs are building modern tracks for 40 weekends in a year, so there's no way that a few dozen Evo/pre-85 riders' voices would ever change that.
Some people like to talk about pre-90 riders as being somehow wildly different to the existing VMX riders. This is utter nonsense, as the guys who are making the noise about pre-90 are all established VMXers...
Personally, I'm a fat old wobbler with a mortgage, offspring, 9-5 job and all the rest - I don't understand how being allowed to race my pre-90 bike is suddenly going to transform me into a Southern Californian supercross legend?!
There's a ton of reasons why pre-90 deserves its place in the old dirt bike racing scene, but I'm going to concentrate on killing the red herrings for now.
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Ergonomics were incrementally improved, but pre-90s have still got banana seats and low, rear mounted handlebars - they are long way a modern bike! Moderns run very flat seats (with rounded profiles), the bars a long way forward and typically very high. Moderns are also much narrower between the legs (I originally typed "pre-90 bikes are fat between the legs" but I knew that Turtle wouldn't be able to resist...)
Cosmetics. Again, steps foward(?) with fashion, but still a long way from anything like a modern.
Maybe yeah but to me no. To me Pre 90 bikes have a modern soul and don't fit into my idea of what a vintage racer looks like. They just don't look 'vintage'. It'll take a lot of spin doctoring to convince me and all but the more astute dirt bike fans that the below '89 RM125 isn't a modern bike in overall concept and appearance. To me it doesn't look all that different to the twenty year newer 2008 model below it. ::) The difference between a '75 model and a '55 model is enormous or going the other way, a '75 model and a '95 model is enormous. No matter what spin is put on it the appearance of dirt bikes changed far less than the technology in the 89-09 period. Barring minor plastics variations, I'd argue that the perimeter frame is the only major visual ergo change in that 20 year period.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/rm125%201989.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/RM125%2008.jpg)
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. These newer classes, pre 90, are so much advanced that they scream for more challenging tracks. How can vmx clubs accommodate the broad difference to suit bike era to tracks? :)
[/quote]rubbish!!!!,most of the guys with pre 90 have several bikes and i would say less than 5% are new riders to the sport, lots have pre 75 bikes and evo's and pre85's and the pre 90 is just another ride on something they like and have in the shed, the continued arguement regarding pre 90 riders wanting this and that is just plain rubbish and i would say your just pushing your own agenda,
these guys just want another ride on their clubs days and these bikes are a part of their culture, more so than their current rides, big deal!!!
Cheers Trev
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A very good case Nathan with the facts and not the bulls;'t
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Agree Nathan. Once again you've nailed it without the BS.
Sorry Firko but in my eyes those two RM's are a world apart.
Cheers
Shaun
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My only thought on the subject is it would be ludicrous to ride Pre 90 bikes on anything but a full-on motocross track. I'd hate to hear anyone on a pre 90 bike bitchin' about tracks being ruined by moderns..... ::) ::)
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Aircooled bikes (VMX) Natural trrain tracks
Why is everybody obsessed with natural terrain tracks? Pre 75 maybe. Not for Evo bikes. They can handle Motocross tracks.
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Using a pic of an 89 model that's got a circa 2000 graphics kit on it, is a bit misleading.
Here's a stock 89 RM125K:
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f128/annaandnathan/Bikestuff/2003_06_10_bikepics-49662-full.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/RM125%2008.jpg)
The new bike's jagged, angular plastics is one immediate and significant point of cosmetic difference.
But yeah, they're still clearly related - in the same way that a TM125 is clearly related to a RM125S is clearly related to a RM125T is clearly related to a RM125D is clearly related to... The evolving appearance of bikes is part of the progression of MX bikes as they're built. Surely that's part of the reason for VMX existing - to celebrate and preserve the obselete and otherwise unwanted old bikes?
Try telling a 20 year old that his new RMZ looks just like an 89 model, and see what sort of response you get.
Are we really so superficial that we can't look beyond appearances?
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Are we really so superficial that we can't look beyond appearances?
To be fair Nathan, you bought it up. I was just responding to the section of your thesis that I disagreed with. As you all now hopefully know, I have no real problems with the pre 90 concept other than still believing that the sport's not ready for it and runs the strong possibility of shooting itself in the foot by introducing another under subscribed division to add to the other under subscribed divisions.
BUT, how long has it been since the introduction of pre '85? Five years or less? The way that self interest groups rally their cause these days it can't be very long before some young ideas genius comes along with the big "What about Pre '95!! mindblaster and starts bleating about how unfair it is that he can't race his 610 Husky or whatever is stirring his little heart.
I understand quite well that I'm considered an old fart whose mind is stuck in 1975 but I've been around long enough to see that the sport I love isn't performing very well at all and I'm positive that adding new divisions isn't going to fix any problems other than adding fuel to the funeral fire. For any sport to grow, first it must be in good health. Adding new divisions is like nailing new branches on a dying tree and thinking it's going to save the tree when in reality all it's doing is adding to the speed of the trees eventual death.
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For me personally, I believe that a bike should simply be 30 years old before being considered for any form of 'vintage' or age related racing. That puts us at Pre 80 right now, which I'm fine with.
Or 25 years at least......... ;)
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Can some of you early-bike-hoarding legends please tell me how I could be riding at all without $3k+ to spend and six months to wait for a rideable bike to come onto the market ? ;D
Until then pre-90 it is. :-\ :)
T2X
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Anybody here who thinks pre 90 is too modern and will water down a temporarily flagging vmx scene is just kidding themselves........pre 90 is definitely coming,as will pre95 and probably pre 2000 etc (perish the thought).....its just a matter of TIMING and how its sensibly introduced..thats all..simple!!......people burying their heads in the sand and refusing to accept pre 90 will do this sport no good....the future of vmx is/will be in the hands of the younger guys who will more than likely want pre 90 .....we should all do ourselves a favour and start thinking for the future........personally I hate em, but there ya go.
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Someone mentioned on the other thread ..all they want to do and what they do is RIDE .........and that is all they do ... :(
No volunteer/no track prep/no canteen/no officials.
How many are helping do the above jobs to keep the events running. ??
....personally I dislike em, but there ya go.
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Can some of you early-bike-hoarding legends please tell me how I could be riding at all without $3k+ to spend and six months to wait for a rideable bike to come onto the market ? ;D
Until then pre-90 it is. :-\ :)
T2X
Its called VMX not budget boy racing ;D the reason this early bike hoarding legend hangs onto his bikes is because having invested more than a few quid buying and restoring them im not about to sell them to some tight arse Johnny come latley at a loss ;)
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Anybody here who thinks pre 90 is too modern and will water down a temporarily flagging vmx scene is just kidding themselves........pre 90 is definitely coming,as will pre95 and probably pre 2000 etc (perish the thought).....its just a matter of TIMING and how its sensibly introduced..thats all..simple!!......people burying their heads in the sand and refusing to accept pre 90 will do this sport no good....the future of vmx is/will be in the hands of the younger guys who will more than likely want pre 90 .....we should all do ourselves a favour and start thinking for the future........personally I hate em, but there ya go.
I think you have to cater for the enthusiasts and the popularity of the times. For guys like me (in their 30s), it's all about 250 2-strokes and guys like McGrath, Emig and Everts who rode them so well. When I was really young, I grew up on a solid diet of 500 GP racing so I can relate back to that. However, by the time I was old enough for a 'big' bike, the 500s were dead & buried.
Sure, there wasn't much 'evolution' going on in the 90s (right up until the 4 bangers came along), but I know when I hit mid forties, brands like CZ, Montesa, Bultaco, etc. will be all but gone from any form of racing. On the flipside, I'd bet the ranch a 1993 McGrath replica would be too cool for school....
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No doubt about it nr555.......we do have to mainly cater for whats here and now...this is what is supporting vmx as we know it......however we must not lose sight of the future....and allowing a little of it in now in a tightly controlled manner cant do any harm.....
You know what??? even if allowing pre 90 in across the board causes havoc (in whatever way i can't imagine) a reversal of the decision is not beyond us im sure......
just give it a go.......see how it goes......
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Can some of you early-bike-hoarding legends please tell me how I could be riding at all without $3k+ to spend and six months to wait for a rideable bike to come onto the market ? Until then pre-90 it is.
Jeez....Another 'no good bikes left' .
OK Two Time, are you seriously trying to tell us that in six months you haven't been able to find a bike to race for your precious 3k? You haven't indicated what division you prefer but I'd suggest that you haven't been looking very far past the end of your street. Seriously good bikes in all divisions come up all the time. Sure you're not going to get a primo machine for a paltry 3k but you can find decent usable bikes for that kind of money all the time. You either have high expectations as to what you can get for your 3k or as I believe, you're not really trying. Just this last week a fellow 'good 'ol boy bought a one owner, never raced or ridden hard Yamaha MX400b for $1000. The funny thing is that the bloke had the bike for sale for ages with no takers. Open your mind and you never know what you'll find. Have you checked out the classifieds on this forum or the related Ning site? Have you considered buying a $1000 dunger and actually building the bike of your dreams with your 2k change? Have you looked at eBay? Have you considered buying from the USA?....There's plenty of options.
Its called VMX not budget boy racing the reason this early bike hoarding legend hangs onto his bikes is because having invested more than a few quid buying and restoring them im not about to sell them to some tight arse Johnny come latley at a loss
Hallelujah TM Bill. Two Time, your smarmy attitude ain't going to get a look in at this legends "hoarded early bikes" either. What this hoarder does with his bikes is none of your business and if it was your 3k isn't going to get close to any of them.
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Can some of you early-bike-hoarding legends please tell me how I could be riding at all without $3k+ to spend and six months to wait for a rideable bike to come onto the market ? ;D
Until then pre-90 it is. :-\ :)
T2X
Its called VMX not budget boy racing ;D the reason this early bike hoarding legend hangs onto his bikes is because having invested more than a few quid buying and restoring them im not about to sell them to some tight arse Johnny come latley at a loss ;)
No problem there Bill but the question stands. If you want keep this thing alive then you have to have a way for people to have a go without having to mortgage their lives and wait for someone to sell part of their collection to do it. Pre-90 is one way to do that. If that is not an option and a relatively small number of people collect and hold the older bikes how else do you expect to get any new blood ?
I'd really like someone to have a go at answering this ?
T2X
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... If you want keep this thing alive then you have to have a way for people to have a go without having to mortgage their lives and wait for someone to sell part of their collection to do it. Pre-90 is one way to do that. If that is not an option and a relatively small number of people collect and hold the older bikes how else do you expect to get any new blood ?
I'd really like someone to have a go at answering this ?
T2X
The answer is to get involved on a dunger - some sort of converted trail-bike, most likely.
Regardless, its another red herring that has little to do with why pre-90 would (supposedly) be bad for the sport.
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No problem there Bill but the question stands. If you want keep this thing alive then you have to have a way for people to have a go without having to mortgage their lives and wait for someone to sell part of their collection to do it. Pre-90 is one way to do that. If that is not an option and a relatively small number of people collect and hold the older bikes how else do you expect to get any new blood ?
I'd really like someone to have a go at answering this ?
T2X
You're right mate. They're just going to have to take the cheaper option and go racing moderns.
*Tell you what. Give us a call and I'll give you one of my bikes that I've probably sunk over ten G into.......
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Can some of you early-bike-hoarding legends please tell me how I could be riding at all without $3k+ to spend and six months to wait for a rideable bike to come onto the market ? Until then pre-90 it is.
Jeez....Another 'no good bikes left' .
OK Two Time, are you seriously trying to tell us that in six months you haven't been able to find a bike to race for your precious 3k? You haven't indicated what division you prefer but I'd suggest that you haven't been looking very far past the end of your street. Seriously good bikes in all divisions come up all the time. Sure you're not going to get a primo machine for a paltry 3k but you can find decent usable bikes for that kind of money all the time. You either have high expectations as to what you can get for your 3k or as I believe, you're not really trying. Just this last week a fellow 'good 'ol boy bought a one owner, never raced or ridden hard Yamaha MX400b for $1000. The funny thing is that the bloke had the bike for sale for ages with no takers. Open your mind and you never know what you'll find. Have you checked out the classifieds on this forum or the related Ning site? Have you considered buying a $1000 dunger and actually building the bike of your dreams with your 2k change? Have you looked at eBay? Have you considered buying from the USA?....There's plenty of options.
Its called VMX not budget boy racing the reason this early bike hoarding legend hangs onto his bikes is because having invested more than a few quid buying and restoring them im not about to sell them to some tight arse Johnny come latley at a loss
Hallelujah TM Bill. Two Time, your smarmy attitude ain't going to get a look in at this legends "hoarded early bikes" either. What this hoarder does with his bikes is none of your business and if it was your 3k isn't going to get close to any of them.
Firko. Maaaaaaate. Yes I am smarmy and a smartarse at times.....................
But took it a bit too far so my apologies to all. :-X
But in all honesty, yes I have looked - here, ebay, gumnut, trading post, DDR, Shoreline. You name it. As for building, yes that works too but I firmly believe a bloke needs a rider first, then a project. No good having a bike in bits when your mates are all out there cutting laps.
So pre-90 it is. The question is do you guys want to let us in? If the answer is yes, thanks for letting me cut my VMX teeth without selling one of the kids. And while getting my mechanical and riding skills up to scratch on a pre-90 bike that should initially need less of both, I'll keep a tight-arse eye out for the older bike/project I really want.
If the answer is no, well, I guess I'll have to ride somewhere else and OzVMX will be -1.
T.
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Here is a bike all ready to go
http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?topic=14803.0
I can see the difference in the 2 seats on the 2 RM's that Nathan pointed out earlier on. That was a good post as usual.
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Someone mentioned on the other thread ..all they want to do and what they do is RIDE .........and that is all they do ... :(
No volunteer/no track prep/no canteen/no officials.
How many are helping do the above jobs to keep the events running. ??
....personally I dislike em, but there ya go.
Who is "they"? We've already established that most/all of the pre-90 enthusiasts are current VMXers. We've also established that the guys who are attracted to pre-90 are mid-30s at the youngest.
To dismiss us as young hooligans is unfair at best.
To dismiss the actual young hooligans as all being selfish wankers is probably also unfair - the culture of VMX racing is a lot less selfish than that of modern racing.
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No problem there Bill but the question stands. If you want keep this thing alive then you have to have a way for people to have a go without having to mortgage their lives and wait for someone to sell part of their collection to do it. Pre-90 is one way to do that. If that is not an option and a relatively small number of people collect and hold the older bikes how else do you expect to get any new blood ?
I'd really like someone to have a go at answering this ?
T2X
You should have been at CD7 when TMBill turned up with a Suzuki that he purchased for peanuts, spent an afternoon fettling and then the rest of the weekend riding and enjoying himself.
It can be done, it might not be pretty, but it can be done.
For heavens sake, Doc has achieved 'legend' status on this very web site for his ability to use rat cunning, ingenuity, spare time and enthusiasm instead of cold hard cash to bring to life a truly awesome collection of bikes. Brains instead of Bucks!!! It's up to you [and your wallet] which way you go.
And, Nathan I am with you. Bring on Pre90. I'm on the lookout for an 86/87 CR…
VMX42
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Someone mentioned on the other thread ..all they want to do and what they do is RIDE .........and that is all they do ... :(
No volunteer/no track prep/no canteen/no officials.
How many are helping do the above jobs to keep the events running. ??
....personally I dislike em, but there ya go.
Who is "they"? they that like to ride"just ride"my quote as well as "they" quote which can be used in any form:We've already established that most/all of the pre-90 enthusiasts are current VMXers. We've also established that the guys who are attracted to pre-90 are mid-30s at the youngest.
To dismiss us as young hooligans is unfair at best.
To dismiss the actual young hooligans as all being selfish wankers is probably also unfair - the culture of VMX racing is a lot less selfish than that of modern racing.Sorry been hangin out at too many modern events ::) different era different time .
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Can some of you early-bike-hoarding legends please tell me how I could be riding at all without $3k+ to spend and six months to wait for a rideable bike to come onto the market ? ;D
Until then pre-90 it is. :-\ :)
T2X
TTT there are plenty of earlier bikes out there for under 3k but it seems from your postings that you expect a diamond for the price of a piece of coal ::)
Enjoy your pre 90 bike good on you :) but mate i drive a 1997 hiace van :-[ I cant rock up at my local race track on V8 day and expect them to run a class for old Hiaces BECAUSE THEIR CHEAP ::)
No i would have to start my own hiace racing club or buy a V8 that fits in with the current classes they run ;)
Its called VMX not budget boy racing ;D the reason this early bike hoarding legend hangs onto his bikes is because having invested more than a few quid buying and restoring them im not about to sell them to some tight arse Johnny come latley at a loss ;)
No problem there Bill but the question stands. If you want keep this thing alive then you have to have a way for people to have a go without having to mortgage their lives and wait for someone to sell part of their collection to do it. Pre-90 is one way to do that. If that is not an option and a relatively small number of people collect and hold the older bikes how else do you expect to get any new blood ?
I'd really like someone to have a go at answering this ?
T2X
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I cant rock up at my local race track on V8 day and expect them to run a class for old Hiaces BECAUSE THEIR CHEAP ::)
[/quote]
Hey Bill,
No you can't. But I for one would pay to see you try…
VMX42
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Can some of you early-bike-hoarding legends please tell me how I could be riding at all without $3k+ to spend and six months to wait for a rideable bike to come onto the market ? Until then pre-90 it is.
Jeez....Another 'no good bikes left' .
OK Two Time, are you seriously trying to tell us that in six months you haven't been able to find a bike to race for your precious 3k? You haven't indicated what division you prefer but I'd suggest that you haven't been looking very far past the end of your street. Seriously good bikes in all divisions come up all the time. Sure you're not going to get a primo machine for a paltry 3k but you can find decent usable bikes for that kind of money all the time. You either have high expectations as to what you can get for your 3k or as I believe, you're not really trying. Just this last week a fellow 'good 'ol boy bought a one owner, never raced or ridden hard Yamaha MX400b for $1000. The funny thing is that the bloke had the bike for sale for ages with no takers. Open your mind and you never know what you'll find. Have you checked out the classifieds on this forum or the related Ning site? Have you considered buying a $1000 dunger and actually building the bike of your dreams with your 2k change? Have you looked at eBay? Have you considered buying from the USA?....There's plenty of options.
Its called VMX not budget boy racing the reason this early bike hoarding legend hangs onto his bikes is because having invested more than a few quid buying and restoring them im not about to sell them to some tight arse Johnny come latley at a loss
Hallelujah TM Bill. Two Time, your smarmy attitude ain't going to get a look in at this legends "hoarded early bikes" either. What this hoarder does with his bikes is none of your business and if it was your 3k isn't going to get close to any of them.
Firko. Maaaaaaate. Yes I am smarmy and a smartarse at times.....................
But took it a bit too far so my apologies to all. :-X
But in all honesty, yes I have looked - here, ebay, gumnut, trading post, DDR, Shoreline. You name it. As for building, yes that works too but I firmly believe a bloke needs a rider first, then a project. No good having a bike in bits when your mates are all out there cutting laps.
So pre-90 it is. The question is do you guys want to let us in? If the answer is yes, thanks for letting me cut my VMX teeth without selling one of the kids. And while getting my mechanical and riding skills up to scratch on a pre-90 bike that should initially need less of both, I'll keep a tight-arse eye out for the older bike/project I really want.
If the answer is no, well, I guess I'll have to ride somewhere else and OzVMX will be -1.
T.
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You can ride a pre-90 bike at Saturday practice at any Heaven meeting. For that matter i think the club will even allow you practice on a modern.
You can cut as many laps as you like.
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But in all honesty, yes I have looked - here, ebay, gumnut, trading post, DDR, Shoreline. You name it. As for building, yes that works too but I firmly believe a bloke needs a rider first, then a project. No good having a bike in bits when your mates are all out there cutting laps.
With respect I doubt you've been looking very hard Tony. If you were really serious you'd have a bike by now. What exactly are you looking for?
In my 25 years of chasing down old dirt bikes I've found shitloads of bargains but maybe you're being a bit precious as to what you think your 3k will bring. As Nathan said, why not race a stripped traily until your dream bike comes up. Many do and they have all sorts of fun. I've got some upmarket bikes but I've had the most fun with bikes built out of discarded dung. As I stated earlier, I honestly believe that if you were serious you'd have found something to race for 3k by now.
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I had my first ride (slowly) on the weekend @ Bidadabba after 10 years on the sidelines & had no idea of this pre 90 issue...What I found was A heap of decent blokes (& gals) all out trying to have A bit of fun on the weekend. Half the fun is trying to make the older bikes look decent again (after years of mistreatment) then trying to stay upright whilst going as fast as you're game to untill you pass out, fall off or throw up.I raced extensively through the 90s & Im at the point where I dont want to be used for traction or go screaming into A 10 foot wide gap with 39 other lunatics. I love all the bikes, all the eras & all the effort made to make you feel welcome at QVMX. Yes my preference is pre 90-they aer the bikes I watched my heros blast around on & that is my passion. The older bikes will disappear in time but wont be forgotten & I guess what im trying to say is lets look at the past with A little bit of foersight...
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sorry bout the spelling...
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3k ? I have dreamed of having 3k to spend on a VMX racer. Keep looking you will find treasure, Take your "pre 90" to any reputable MX club sign up and cut laps enjoy.
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Yes, you can ride a pre-90 at a modern meeting.
You can also ride a pre-75 bike at a modern meeting - but very, very few of us choose to do so. Instead, we prefer to hold/attend meetings catering for old bikes.
Why is this so? Why is it different for pre-90?
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Thanks guys. It's been a hoot ??? But due to my obvious....
- lack of multiple thousands of dollars,
- lack of ability to look hard,
- lack of seriousness,
- and preciousness
............I might just give this forum the swerve.
See ya.
T.
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Thanks guys. It's been a hoot ??? But due to my obvious....
- lack of multiple thousands of dollars,
- lack of ability to look hard,
- lack of seriousness,
- and preciousness
............I might just give this forum the swerve.
See ya.
T.
Enjoy the Qld pre90.. come back in the future some day 8)
cheers west oz
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Thanks guys. It's been a hoot ??? But due to my obvious....
- lack of multiple thousands of dollars,
- lack of ability to look hard,
- lack of seriousness,
- and preciousness
............I might just give this forum the swerve.
See ya.
T.
I'm normally pretty polite but..................... Jeezuss!! What do you want??? Lot's of people gave you suggestions and advice of how how to get into it without spending a lot of money and it looks to me like you've chosen to ignore that cos you really want to go Pre 90.
No problem. No doubt you'll have a ball going that way, but please don't pretend that you're only doing it cos all the "hoarders" with million dollar bikes won't hand you a mint example for the price you think it should be worth.
Now, more than ever, there are affordable bikes that you can race in pretty much any class you choose. If you really wanted to............. So, I'm sorry, but that's not an excuse. e.g. I just piched up a Montesa which will end up costing me less than $1500.00 ready to go with new tyres.
Hey, that feels good to have a spit every now and then. :D
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(http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/ee61/yoda1.jpg)
Spit hard and spit long and well you shall feel
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hanks guys. It's been a hoot
Sensitive little puppy or what?. He wouldn't have lasted much longer if that's the attitude anyway. ;D
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Easy Tiger!!
Some of you boys and girls are hanging on WAY too tight...... Relax a little. I STILL don't get it.
Once again for the Dummies, in 25 simple words or less.....
"We should not allow a pre 90 class because : " ?
It's coming. Not IF, but WHEN. Seems to me all this pontification is just that. A lot of MY willy is bigger than YOUR willy stuff.
P.S. I know Tony. I know how genuine he is and I think you blokes have missed the point. Oh, and he is a BIG bastard.....
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Here is a bike all ready to go
http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?topic=14803.0
I can see the difference in the 2 seats on the 2 RM's that Nathan pointed out earlier on. That was a good post as usual.
Mate, are ya serious?? It's in Western Australia. Have you priced how much it is to transport from WA to Queensland? Makes the purchase a whole different thing......
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Easy Tiger!!
Some of you boys and girls are hanging on WAY too tight...... Relax a little. I STILL don't get it.
Once again for the Dummies, in 25 simple words or less.....
"We should not allow a pre 90 class because : " ?
It's coming. Not IF, but WHEN. Seems to me all this pontification is just that. A lot of MY willy is bigger than YOUR willy stuff.
P.S. I know Tony. I know how genuine he is and I think you blokes have missed the point. Oh, and he is a BIG bastard.....
I met Tony on the weekend - very passionate...like the rest of us...
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whitey 43 said...
Yes my preference is pre 90-they aer the bikes I watched my heros blast around on & that is my passion.
and that is why I like pre 75 and pre 78. These are the bikes of my youth, memories, hero's and my passion. I doubt that I would ever want to race a pre 90 but I see no difference in my passion for what I like, now I am in my 50's, compared to the guys and girls in their 30's and 40's.
Has MA or any of the clubs tried to survey the demand for pre 90? It will be a demand for both new and existing riders in the sport to race in their own recognised class that, I see, will drive its adoption more than any other factor.
I really think the important question is not whether "Is pre 90 class too close to moderns, too far from vintage?" but more....
Will the VMX associations be able to cater for the inevitable expansion in VMX or will pre 90 need to form its own association to cater for the pre 90 riders?
but I do hope that whatever the answer, everyone who rides in whatever class is happy with the outcome and that ALL old Motocross bikes can be not just raced but displayed in the pits and enjoyed in the same way as Traction engines or Steam trains are today by much of the wider public.
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I know Tony. I know how genuine he is and I think you blokes have missed the point. Oh, and he is a BIG bastard.....
Whatever point Tony was making went out the window when he came in first sentence with a smart arse attitude. ''Can some of you early-bike-hoarding legends'' isn't a nice way for a first up newby to get help on this forum or anywhere else. We are all prepared to help out here but he had attitude from the first sentence. I offered him some sensible alternatives, asked him twice what he was looking for but he didn't want to know about it. He'd made his mind up that it's somebody elses fault that he couldn't find a bike, full stop. Probably my fault I suppose because I haven't got a 3k bike to sell him.
He's the one who fu*ked up here not the blokes who tried to help him. The folks on this forum are the most helpful on the 'net and all you have to do is to show a bit of respect and people will go out of their way to help.
By the way, is the "he's a big bastard" quote some sort of excuse for us to suck up to the bloke or is it a threat that we should be scared or something ??? Is it a full moon?
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Well said trailietrash! I have been involved in speedway (cars) since I quit bikes in 2000. In speedway, they have so many splinter groups started by competitors cheezed off with respecitve clubs that the governing body has had to step in & stop the rot. I would hate to see the same thing happen to sport I love. There has to be A general agreement for this division-yes, join vmx od no - go do club days. The powers that be are the only ones that can sort this out, everyone making their point are all really trying to do two things...1. Look after their interests & 2.Enjoy competiting in the sport they love. I guess at club level A vote can be held and the decision frozen for A specified amount of time.Im only new to this,not a know it all,but this fourm wont fix the issue...
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No worries Mark
I got your back
(http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/ee61/SCA7X34SCCAHUON27CAJI14EZCAT9IKQACAMUQEOBCA94KVU2CA34FL7ICAWRU8HRCAYEBPY1CAD65NLPCAKMAK29CAOP7C63CA5BV4TNCAI9HAZJCAZX1Y9GCAcrazyman.jpg)
No one will mess with ya once they see this
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Woo hoo a man goes away for a work day trip and war breaks out!!
Great to see Ira Doe defending his patch and my old mate Firko.
In my most humble tool head opinion, we all need to face facts; that as we age,some of us will start to slowly drop off racing,the need has come for young blood to come through,or this great sport of ours is going to die,which will suck.Without wanting to sound like a poof,it would be a shame to see something that I really love, die a sad slow death.
I can remember when I started VMXing (racing bikes), not keyboard racing, that at age 30 I was a baby,but now ten years later at 40 you start to think how the body will handle it at age 50......
While I have in the past and now again own a evo bike its the kettle/linkage bikes that all my heroes raced and hence what I really get off owning.
Anyway keep it going men this is good constructive stuff,Tony dont take it personally mate.life is far too short.
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............I might just give this forum the swerve.
See ya.
T.
Byeeeeeee :D
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Time to throw my 2 cents in, if you want to keep "your VMX" with nothing later than pre85 thats fine by me but every era has its fans so I fell that the place for pre90,pre95,pre00 is with a modern club under the banner of RETRO motocross "RMX" then when sufficient numbers warrant the formation of a single entity club with clear definitions, like VMXWA being anything pre75 only (works well for us), they and you will be happy no matter what side of the fence you sit on.
More financial members contributing to future growth is good for all concerned.
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Mate, are ya serious?? It's in Western Australia. Have you priced how much it is to transport from WA to Queensland? Makes the purchase a whole different thing......
Yes i am serious, but i did not know he was in QLD. In the end, i dont think theres any excusses as there is still tonnes of bikes out there that can be made into entry level VMX bikes. Numerous people on here have shown fine examples of you you can turn an average TS, DT or XL into a decent VMX bike with out having to spend heaps. And ultimately, if price is an issue for some then you might just have to consider a different sport. No motorsport is intended to be cheap and affordable to everyone, but if you really seriously want to get into it then you will find a way and find a bike. They wont just fall out of the sky. If your fussy and want a pure YZ or RM etc then you got to be prepared to pay a fair bit for one of those.
Although i dont mind the idea of pre 90, i prefer the pre 85 bikes, but i would like to see pre 90 go ahead for the enjoyment of those who are into those bikes. I also think 85-89 is the last stage of major developments where there was lots of changes in designs. To me 'the 80's' is the last era of 'vintage' bikes. i dont really see the need for pre 95 for quite some time and i dont really like those bikes that much but at the same time im not going to jump up and down trying to stop it.
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Well I,m in my 50's I dont see a problem with the pre 90 stuff when I jump on a bike and am fortunate to have a few of different era's and types I enjoy them for what they are and the engineering that went into producing them, and I am happy to lend them to my friends to have a go at VMX. I have attended 2 National events and I am happy to race on what ever track is provided I ride to my ability and if its too rough for the bike I'm riding simple I slow down and ride at a pace which is safe for me. Let the Pre 90's in it is up to those people to turn up and race if they don't it will die a natural death.
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FWIW, I take it you are a Queenslander??? Did you come to CD7 as there where a few bikes forsale well under 3 grand .....Dodgy aka as Wayne was selling off his colllection of Suzukis most went for around $3000-00
TM Bill rode a Ts 185 around and had a ball ( told everyone it was a factory special ) ;D