OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Tech Talk => Topic started by: firko on September 08, 2010, 12:16:09 pm
-
To assist in research for an article I'm putting together for VMX #44 I need to know the weight of a bare Yamaha XT/TT500 frame/swingarm. If anyone can help me out by weighing their bareframe/swingarm it'd be much appreciated.
While we're at it, it might be interesting to see what other frame/swingarm combos weigh. If you've got a bare frame laying around and a set of bathroom scales, weigh it up and post it up here. I have a suspicion some of the results will be surprising.
-
1978 Suzuki SP370 with swingarm 16.5kg
1968 CT90 with swingarm a svelte 11.3kg ;D
I just knew you would be hanging out to find that one out......... ::)
-
Can’t help with the TT weights, I did have some bare frames a while back but can’t find any notes on them.
I thought I had some more frame weights as well but can’t find any notes at the moment, will looker deeper later
GMC HL replica frame 11.0 Kg’s Cro-Mo
GMC HL replica swingarm 3.5 Kg’s alloy
RM80 DG swingarm 1.8 Kg’s alloy
RM80 GMC swingarm 1.6 Kg’s alloy
XR75 stock swingarm 1.7 Kg’s steel
XR75 GMC swingarm 1.65 Kg’s alloy
YZ 250/360 A bare frame no swingarm 11.9 Kg’s
Husky 77? bare frame no swingarm 8.3 Kg’s
Honda CR 250-78 bare frame 9.3 Kg’s
Yamaha YZ 400 D frame 1W4 bare frame 11.6 Kg’s
Yamaha YZ 400 E frame 2X4 bare frame 10.3 Kg’s
Hallman Suzuki bare frame missing rear engine mount 8.2 Kg’s
-
YZ125H 9.1 kg for frame and 3.2kg swingarm. No shock in that obviously
-
Safeway shopping trolley - 7.3kg (accurate guesstimate only) bare. Not including the castor wheels or money holder thing. ::)
-
By the "way" 8)
Whats a piecost or a henweigh
-
Monty H6 16kg of Spain's finest Chrome Moly ::).
Swingarm 3.5 kg
(More to follow ;) :) - interesting project 8))
-
FIRKO
i have some frames at home on the waiting list
staracer tt500 frame sw arm shocks oil tank and tripples
1974 honda cr250 frame sw/arm and tripples
1958 ariel swing arm frame
1977 italian long track frame plates swing arm
are the weights of these off interest
jim
-
Jim, I reckon this thread is a great idea and will be a reference point for years to come.
It will be interesting to compare different makes, capacities and era's.
Anyone at the bare frame stage of a resto has a responsibility to inform the rest of us.
Weigh everything I say.
-
All my weights quoted are from the same electronic scales that I know to be accurate.
All weights quoted are rounded off to the nearest 0.1 Kg
I’m a bit skeptical of the 16 kg’s quoted for the Monty frame. Does it include the swingarm?
I don’t trust bathroom scales, tried to use them in the past but they are often way out which is why I bought some electronic scales.
If the weights quoted aren’t accurate then any comparison is meaningless
I’m starting to feel a bit anal now
78 RM 125 frame 9.2 Kg
73 CZ frame 9.3 Kg
73 CCM frame 9.5 Kg
73 CCM swingarm 2.6 Kg
82 XR500 frame 12.9 Kg
80 YZ 125 swingarm 3.3 Kg alloy
73 Maico frame 10.7 Kg
73 Maico swingarm 3.2 Kg
74 GMC CMS replica CZ frame 7.8 Kg
74 GMC CMS replica CZ swingarm 2.3 Kg
88 KDX 200 frame 11.6 Kg
88 KDX 200 swingarm 3.9 Kg
64 CZ twinport, frame, swingarm
Pivot bolt & engine mount 12.4 Kg
79 KTM swingarm 3.5 Kg alloy
87 KX 250 subframe 1.3 Kg alloy
75? YZ 80 frame 6.6 Kg
Z50 frame 5.9 Kg
-
I can weigh a bare TT frame and swingarm for you Mark but not until Sunday.
If I don't see any weights put up here I'll dig mine out let you know
Brent
-
Thanks fellas.....This can be a good reference and dispel some rumours about the material some frames are reputed to be made of. Keep 'em coming. I did a quicky weigh in with some of the frame/swingarms I have in the stash and the results were rather interesting (to me anyway).
* Sprite/American Eagle (early pre fastback model).....20kg
*Rickman Zundapp Micro Metisse.....14kg
*Trackmaster 750 Yamaha ....15kg
*Cotton Cobra....13.5kg
*Hindall Kawasaki 350....10kg.
The assumptions that I've made from that weigh in is that the claims of the Sprite frame to be Reynolds 351 are questionable at best. The Cotton frame is of a very similar design yet it's 6.5 kg lighter. The other thing I have found is that the American reports of Harry Hindall's frames being ultra light are spot on. The 4130 Chro-Mo Hindall is half the weight of the Sprite and that included the steel Kawasaki triple clamps...the only frame I weighed with clamps. Remove them and there's a real possibility the frame may come in at around 9kg. I thought the little Rickman frame would have been lighter than 14kg considering it's constructed from Reynolds 531. The Trackmaster is a big frame so when compared to the other smaller units, it comes up pretty well. I wish I would have weighed my Boyd and Stellings frame before I built the bike as it was noticably lighter than the 10kg Hindall. The complete Boyd and Stellings TM400 comes in at 190kg so I reckon the frame and aluminium swingarm had to be sub 10kg. The weight of the Cheney would have been handy as well. Tomorrow I'll weigh '71 Maico, DT1, TS250 and my other Trackmaster frames.
-
Hi Firko, the tm do you mean 90kg's that is pretty good how heavy is the bike stock?
-
The assumptions that I've made from that weigh in is that the claims of the Sprite frame to be Reynolds 351 are questionable at best.
The weight doesn't mean that its not made of Reynolds tubing - it just indicates that there is either more of it, or they used thicker walled tubes.
Perhaps we need some more materials testing to be sure… ;) How about we test them all to destruction and then we will have some quantative data from which to draw our conclusions? :D
-
Mark,
My 76 & 81 XT frames both weigh 14 Kg and the swing arm is 3.5 Kg.
will weigh TT tomorrow as it's else where.
Curly
-
As it happens, I've been shuffling some stuff around in the garage and had to move my American Eagle (F21M) frame. So, on the (new) bathroom scales and it came in at 12kg for the bare frame and about 2.5kg for the swingarm. As the proper F21M frame was bare as well (awaiting some work) it went on the scales and it came in just under 10kg (without swingarm). They're not super accurate but very close I'd reckon.
-
Whats the baseline going to be ? bare frame or frame and its swing arM. ?
jUSt so they are all kept apples with apples referances it would be good to keep the same matrix.
IMHO.
after the nats i can play weigh in, be interested firko on the champs and tracky to see if they all are the same or if differant frame sizes/models and style change anything
-
Whats the baseline going to be ? bare frame or frame and its swing arM. ?
I said it in the first post Freaky. Bare frame and swingarm. Nothing else
As it happens, I've been shuffling some stuff around in the garage and had to move my American Eagle (F21M) frame. So, on the (new) bathroom scales and it came in at 12kg for the bare frame and about 2.5kg for the swingarm
Now here's our first discrepancy. I had a doctors appointment yesterday evening so while I was there I had a weigh in on his supposedly accurate digital scales. When I got home I weighed myself and found my scales to be reading 1kg heavy at my weight. I adjusted them back to the same reading as the doctors scales and decided to weigh the frames again.
After reading Smithy's vastly different result from his American Eagle frame I figured the heavy 20kg I got yesterday must have been wrong......Here are my corrected results with the previous weight in brackets.
American Eagle....19kg (20kg)
Rickman Micro Metisse.....13kg (14kg)
Hindall ...........8.5kg (10kg) I removed the Kwasaki triple clamps that were fitted in the previous weigh in.
Trackmaster Yamaha........ 14kg (15kg)
Cotton Cobra.,.....13kg (13.5kg)
In addition I weighed the following this afternoon...
Maico 1971........14kg
Trackmaster replica .......12.5kg.....this is a very large frame, very similar to my Trackmaster Yamaha frame but made my some unknown craftsman in Texas. Everyone who lifts this frame remarks how much lighter it is to what it looks.
The 4.5kg difference between Ken and my American Eagle frames is odd. Both frames are early model twin top tube pre fastback models and one would assume they would be within half a kilo of each other. One could put it down to either his or my scales being out of whack but when I weigh in the dame on my digi scales and those of my doctor I think mine are pretty right, as Ken thinks his are. Alan Jones is going to let me weigh the frames on his calibrated scales at his work when I can get a chance to get over there. That'll be interesting as he's recently had them calibrated.
My 76 & 81 XT frames both weigh 14 Kg and the swing arm is 3.5 Kg.
will weigh TT tomorrow as it's else where.
Thanks Curly, much appreciated. I would have bet serious that the XT frame would be heavier than a Maico frame so this discrepancy in scales is going to make things a bit more complicated than I originally thought. I await Brent's results for his TT/XT frames and anyone else who has weighed any of the above bikes.
-
Mark checked frame on a commercial set today came in at 14.1kg . Not much difference between my 2 home scales( 1 digital other old style) and supposed acurate commercial scales.
Curly
-
speaking of XT frames....did you see the two XT's racing around in the snow chasing James Bond last night in For Your Eyes Only I think :o :o. One had front blinkers that rotated and turned into machine guns. Now that would be a good feature to use to win specials test 8) 8) The stunt riders were very good to keep those beasts upright. One picked the whole bike up in the air above his head and threw it at Bond. That frame must have been super light! ;D ;D Ah the classics
-
Suzuki DR500 - standard frame & swingarm = 18.5kg
For interest sake - standard engine = 42kg
Bonnie the Staffy = 21kg
I'd love to harness her power to weight.
I'm dragging out my award winning C15 soon to begin it's reincarnation and will weigh it as well.
-
I weighed my XT and TT frames and on my scales both came up 13.5 and 3 for the swingarms. I's say the difference between my weights and Curlys is just the scales. Both frames are much the same with different rear guard mounts, a few brackets and the steering lock on the XT.
I don't have a TT swingarm here so I'm not sure if they have pillion pegs brackets or not.
When I built my XT race bike I weighed the steel I removed from the frame and it totalled 2 kg.
Next time I have one apart I'll weigh the PE400 swingarm and I'm sure it's lighter than the XT/TT steel one.
Brent
-
Dr500 frame with triple clamps fitted & side stand =15.2 kg
Alloy swing arm 4.1 kg
-
The difference in Curly's and Brents frames may even be the years, as Yamaha may have altered them slightly with the different models.
I was assuming too that the XT frame would have been slightly heavier than the TT due to blinker brackets etc.
-
Geoff I don't think year of manufacture is the reason for difference because my 1976 & 1981 frame are the same. I was under the impression the TT frame was lighter but going by Brents frames there not.
Slider I think Bonnie needs a bit more walking and a few less treats. If I could figure out a way to harness Molly the staffy's tail wagging energy I'd never have to pay an electric bill ever again.
Curly
-
You're probably right there Curly.
I've left the Curly name all to you mate and I still owe you a 6pack, I haven't forgotten.
-
speaking of XT frames....did you see the two XT's racing around in the snow chasing James Bond last night in For Your Eyes Only I think :o :o. One had front blinkers that rotated and turned into machine guns. Now that would be a good feature to use to win specials test 8) 8) The stunt riders were very good to keep those beasts upright. One picked the whole bike up in the air above his head and threw it at Bond. That frame must have been super light! ;D ;D Ah the classics
yer but wherent they TT's ? and going by the bloke who lifts it over his head to throw it at bond, id say Firko can pencil in about 10kg's for them frames based on that ....... :D :D
-
I weighed my frames on the bathroom scales, I also weighed myself then jumped on our whiz bang scales at work. The difference in my weight was the same as the difference in Culry's and my listed frame weights so I'd go with his.
The TT frame weighed in the same each time but the XT sometimes showed 0.5kg heavier. I'd guess it's just on the limit of tipping the scales to the next 0.5kg. It's a bit heavier but not by much. I'd guess it's less than 500g difference.
Brent
-
I can weigh a PE250/400T frame but forgot to on the weekend.
-
Slider thanks for the name change ! It's okay we'll catch up one day & have a few together.
-
tt500 staracer frame 14kg
-
Micky De, was 98.5kg
Now he is 85kg, beat that ;D
Quickest way to lighten a Maico :D
-
Well done Mick, I'm 95kg, if I could get down to 85 both wifey & I would be very happy.
-
I was 97 kg a week ago, got very sick with appendicitis, had my appendix out, and now I weigh 92 kg.
Very fast weight loss but not a lot of fun and I can't ride for another five weeks
-
I was 97 kg a week ago, got very sick with appendicitis, had my appendix out, and now I weigh 92 kg.
Very fast weight loss but not a lot of fun and I can't ride for another five weeks
that's a hell of a lot loose in a week, but at least you survived the knife.
good luck with that and enjoy the spell.
-
Who are you trying to put in the frame, Firko? :o
-
My record is losing around 20Kg's in a couple of months through the good old sickness diet.
I could really do with getting sick again at the moment :o
-
YZ250L frame 10.9kg
-
On the trusty bath scales my 77 KTM frame is 10.5 kg
-
Bare C & J XL350 frame 10.2 Kg
-
I recently sold a Rickman Montesa frame to a forum member but before I did weighed it.
The result was a surprising 13.5kg. Although no heavyweight, I'd have thought 10-12 kg would have been closer, based on similar frames.
-
2 Valve Jawa speedway frame,
inc- forks, tank, rear guard, banana seat, engine plates & countershaft.
10.5 kg
-
Bare Modified Honda CB754 frame with stock swingarm with bare Wasp universal MX sidecar and swingarm attached.... appears to be a nice compact 38.85kg :D
-
BSA B50 14,4 Kg
-
67 Husky bolt up frame 9 kg { front section 6.1 kg rear 2.9kg} swing arm 2.4 kg ;D
-
SWM TF3 bare frame 10Kg, Swingarm 4Kg.
-
Nickel plated C & J sideport XL350 bare frame 7kg some 3.2kg's lighter than the centreport frame? It does feel thin.
-
My carbon fibre framed mountain bike weighs 11kg wet. Features Duralium rims, tubeless tyres, titanium seat rails.Toatal package with me on board is 107 kg. Do the maths! No more weight to lose on the bikes behalf! Guess it means I have to look in the hall of mirrors. Damn it. Cheers Jerry
-
When I saw Jerry's mountain bike weight I just had to weigh my Marin Monocoque. The photo shows the bike while it was under construction but it's now complete with Schwalbe Big Betty tubeless tyres and a carbon fibre seat and titanium stem. The bike came in identical to Jerry's at 11kg. I'll weigh my other Mert Lawwill mountain bike when I can get it off my wall rack (It's too hot and I'm too lazyto move the Jag out of the way) but being fully suspended I reckon it'll come in at around 15kg.
I'll be weighing a C&J BSA B50 frame during the next couple of weeks so it'll be interesting to see how it compares to Sudmans Honda side and centre port frames.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/pushies%20bicycles%20001.jpg)
-
Firko just to give you the shits my mountain bike has dual suspension and hydraulic disc brakes and it won an Australian title (not with me on board) Mind you that monocock looks very smooth. Cheers Jerry
-
I've got this one too Jerry....It's a '99 model Mert Lawwill with 6" travel carbon fibre forks, 4" travel rear rox shox and discs. It's nowhere as light as the Marin Mono but it's a great bush basher. Even though I'm currently out of action, I use the Marin for cycle paths and rides to Starbucks for a Capuchino. The wheels are light but I'd hate to give them too much of a hammering with the minimal spoke pattern. The Lawwill is a good bike even though it's a bit old school compared to what's out there now.
I've got an even more primitive but super light Diamondback too.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/pushies%20bicycles%20004.jpg)
-
Thats some very nice bikes fella's...and light!
As for my pig....a svelte..cough...26kgs.
Built like a brick shithouse but jumps great.
Being a D/Hill bike i take it out on the MB track and i pay for it when climbing any grade.
Even a very slight brake squeal on the front,it resonates and amplifies through the 6061T frame.
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa250/hjcoupe/norco.jpg)
-
Even a very slight brake squeal on the front,it resonates and amplifies through the 6061T frame.
My Marin tinny does the same thing. ;D We've got a really good downhill course on our property and I recently let my mate ride it just so I could listen to it banging away through the bush. It's bad enough when you're riding it but it's funny to hear it going through the forest...it sounds like somebody's banging on a 20 litre drum and you can hear it at least a minute before it appears. That's why it's been relegated to boulevarde duties these days ;). The 60/61 alloy frame on my blue Lawwill doesn't make a sound though. It's interesting to see the technology change in the 10 years seperating your Norco and my Lawwill.
Ironically...Jonesys Hagon TT500 monocoque also resonates like a tin drum on the track. The exhaust sound seems to resonate through the frame as well.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/Hagon%20001.jpg)
-
Here's a few more weights weighed on the ubiquitous bathroom scales, so probably +/-1kg:
Mon V75 fr & s'arm 20kg (thats not a misprint - they weigh a ton!)
Phantom GP fr 10kg (s'arm about 3kg)
Super Pioneer fr & s'arm 14.5kg
Cooper fr & s'arm 17.5kg
Canam MX2 fr & s'arm 15kg
CR250M2 fr & s'arm 14kg
MAG Husky fr & s'arm 15kg
74KTM250 fr & s'arm 15kg
Mk8 Pursang fr & s'arm 12kg
M180 Frontera fr & s'arm 13kg (w rear engine mount)
M107 Matador fr 11kg
KX250A 75-6 fr & s'arm 13.5kg
KDX175 fr 10kg
TS250 fr & s'arm 13.5kg
DT250B fr & s'arm 16kg
-
Yamaha YZ250B frame is 12 kgs and the swingarm 3 kgs.
-
77 Ossa Super Pioneer 10.4 Kg
-
ScF Enduro painted 4130 frame Circa '74 6.3kg. Swingarm 4130 2.5kg - 6" tvl.
(http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p438/sscf_2008/XL400-7.jpg)
Swingarm has been beefed up to Aluminum arm back in late '80s, same swingarm weight.
(http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p438/sscf_2008/XL486-3.jpg)
XL350/486cc engine. Currently working at taking some extra weight off.
-
Bultaco Mk 7 frame 8.545kg's and swing arm 2.570kg's
Kawasaki 1975 KX250 frame 8.855kg's and swing arm 3.750kg's
Maico MC400 frame only 12.550kg's
-
2 Valve Jawa Speedway Engine, complete minus carb & magneto = 32kg.
-
Jonesy weighed both his C&J B50 and CCM frames today and came up with..........
C & J bare frame & swingarm = 12.7 kgs
CCM bare frame & swingarm = 14.3 kgs
(http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m392/cherie_jones/P1000931.jpg)
-
Every time you show a photo of AJ's workshop I notice a different engine in there somewhere.
What's that engine next to what looks like a Streety?
-
More to the point slides Who TF has a commercial weight scale platform
in there shed ????
-
More to the point slides Who TF has a commercial weight scale platform
in there shed Huh
AJ brought the scales home from work Freaky.
Every time you show a photo of AJ's workshop I notice a different engine in there somewhere.
What's that engine next to what looks like a Streety?
The motor next to the Streety is a Godden Steve, Here's Al's latest find, a George Wenn tuned Speedway Research 2V conversion engine. The Speedway Research motor is one of very few were made and is supposedly based on the Offenhauser 2l midget speedcar motor. George Wenn was a respected California tuner http://www.speedwaybikes.com/rw/WennGeorge.htm (http://www.speedwaybikes.com/rw/WennGeorge.htm)
(http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m392/cherie_jones/P1000907.jpg)
(http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m392/cherie_jones/P1000909.jpg)
-
Now I can tell it's a Godden from a different angle, his collection never ceases to amaze.
-
his collection never ceases to amaze.
You and Carlos should come over one day Steve, there's some amazing stuff there and it's not all speedway, there's rare motocross, dirt track and even trials tackle sharing equal space. The beauty of his collection is that he rides them and isn't scared to let punters ride his bikes as Mainline, TM Bill and others have discovered over the years.
-
did any body ever weigh a mega 2 frame ? (mick d )?
-
Paul
Do you want a weight for a mega and swing arm with spindle.
Weight guaranteed perfect using the same highly accurate ::) scales I use to weight out the bead load for the vapour blaster but should be OK unless you are wanting super accuracy
Dave Mac :)
-
dave just the bare frame no swing arm thanks
-
did any body ever weigh a mega 2 frame ? (mick d )?
So,,,,,,,,,, the engine I haven't started yet. You want it when? yesterday? but you give me another job ::)
Well I have done one job for you today. And that be weighing in ;D
Bare Mega 2 frame = 11.3kg on a pair of old Irish Krupp brand bath scales. Analog scale unfortunately, but they are accurate for what they are.
Cheers Dave. Regards, Mick #36 ;D
-
mick the engines mounts measurement and the lotto numbers are
-
hint hint :D :D :D :D that free bultaco is driveing me crazy
-
I will happily give you last nights lotto numbers, if you give me next weeks.
All Pre-78 frame mounts for engines are to set at 35mm apart. All pre-78 Maico engines lugs were around 34.5mm to 34.7mm.
Make sure you keep in mind of course what type of frame paint you will be using? when setting them.
ie; paint thickness
-
hint hint :D :D :D :D that free bultaco is driveing me crazy
Great, cause that means you'll be in a straight jacket by the time its rockin n rollin :'(
-
Weighed these up this morning. Bare frames with swingarms:
Bultaco [not Rickman] Metisse 16kg
Suzuki RM 250/370A 14kg
Montesa 360 H6 20kg
Regards
David
To assist in research for an article I'm putting together for VMX #44 I need to know the weight of a bare Yamaha XT/TT500 frame/swingarm. If anyone can help me out by weighing their bareframe/swingarm it'd be much appreciated.
While we're at it, it might be interesting to see what other frame/swingarm combos weigh. If you've got a bare frame laying around and a set of bathroom scales, weigh it up and post it up here. I have a suspicion some of the results will be surprising.
-
Kramit RV3: Frame 8.0Kg Swing arm 4Kg.
-
Firko,
Just picked up on this thread, the original Rickman Metisse frames are chromemoly however they are the same thickness as steel frames', and chromemoly is slightly heavier then normal steel, heavier metal types in the content.
This is all quite strange when you consider chromemoly is twice the strength and normal practice is to use half the thickness to reduce weight!
Perhaps the Rickman Brothers didn't want them to ever fail.
-
1 x 1980 Kawasaki SR500 43mm fork with mag lower leg =3.5kg..............1 x 1981 Yamaha IT175 36mm fork = 4.5kg.....no wonder works bikes where light.