OzVMX Forum
Marque Remarks => Maico => Topic started by: Roostin440 on August 09, 2010, 03:27:01 am
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After going to a vintage race a couple of months ago I became hooked. I bought a really beat 79 Maico 440 with a busted frame. The guy gave me a good 78 frame to use. So my project started. It is coming along very well. I am just waiting on some parts and waiting for the wheels to be spoked. Here is a before pic and one where I am fitting the tank, seat and side panels. All of the nuts and bolts are going to be stainless except the motor mount bolts are grade 12.
It looks like there is a bracket missing that holds the rear of the gas tank down. Is this a bracket or a strap? The seat does not hold it down well. So far I have everything ordered to finish the bike except the shocks. Last weekend I watched a vintage race at the Glen Helen national track. That was something to see the vintage bikes on that track. I noticed the Maico that went through the woops the cleanest had YSS shocks. So now I am torn between YSS and Ohlins. I do like the fact that the YSS have adjustable comp and rebound for the same price.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/mjf454/DSC00759-1.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/mjf454/DSC00773.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/mjf454/DSC00770.jpg)
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I have yss on my 79 gs Maico put the pd valves in the forks as well fantastic. Your bike will be to good to ride
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What are the triple clamps you are using?
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Nice bike, my favourite model Maico. If you can find one try an '81 model swingarm, the extra length helps make the best handling twin shock Maico even better. The YSS top of the line shocks with all of the gizmos work well as do the Ohlins. They both leave Works behind. I'm curious about the triple clamps as well.
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you bike is comeing along nicely :D i love that model i have 2 ;D
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I'm more curious why all of a sudden we seem to have been inundated with Euro Enduro bikes with 16" of travel. First the KTM125 and now the forks on this Maico.
Is it just my ever aging eyes, or are these forks way too long?
(http://i382.photobucket.com/albums/oo263/ozmaico/IMGP3322.jpg)
Back to the Maico experts…
VMX42
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81 forks and tripple clamps and 81 alloy swing arm ohlins 490 engine ;D
81 wheels as well
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The triple clamps on mine are from Maico Only. My stock clamps had big gouges in them. The forks are rebuilt 79 forks with new springs and Race-Tech cartridge emulators. The length is stock.
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…the length is stock.
Must get my eyes checked. :D
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…the length is stock.
Must get my eyes checked. :D
I think you guys are commenting on 2 different Maico's. :)
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The Ohlins are a vastly better shock . The YSS are fundamentaly flawed due to increase in the shaft diameter after the original design . The extra volume displaced by the shaft cannot be acccomodated by the reservoir which leads to seal and hydraulic lock problems . I have 5 Maicos withs Ohlins and wouldn't run anything else . A lack of adjusters shouldn't put you off . Regards Scott
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(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/BjynldwBmkKGrHqQH-CwEs9br3it0BLU4JFE4MQ_12.jpg?t=1281514319) (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Maico-onlys-OHLINS-rear-suspension-Motocross-twinshock-/260539549194?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts)
CLICK ON PICTURE
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/yss.jpg?t=1281514590) (http://shop.ebay.co.uk/i.html?_nkw=MAICO+YSS&_sacat=0&_sop=10&_dmpt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&_odkw=MAICO&_osacat=0&bkBtn=&_trksid=p3286.m270.l1313)
CLICK ON PICTURE
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how do you do that thing with the picture mick
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how do you do that thing with the picture mick
Aarrhhh, that be magic mate:D :D ;D :D
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(http://i382.photobucket.com/albums/oo263/ozmaico/IMG_1421.jpg) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160437622908&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT)
CLICK ON PIC
Geez, didn't take you long to figure that one out :o
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The Ohlins are a vastly better shock . The YSS are fundamentaly flawed due to increase in the shaft diameter after the original design .
My bikes aren't Maico's. But the one that I have with the YSS on it handles very well and it has the big shafts :-\. No hydraulic locks there. Also when I've needed things changed or serviced they've been gone no longer than a week.
The Ohlins which I bought from the US need a lot of changes just to fit my bike. If I was to race this bike I bet I'd have to shop around and get some valveing done as well and maybe change some springs ::). I'm glad they're only on it for looks.
I'll put YSS on my next racer as well.... ;)
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee74/All_things_414/DSCN0983.jpg)
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The Ohlins are a vastly better shock . The YSS are fundamentaly flawed due to increase in the shaft diameter after the original design . The extra volume displaced by the shaft cannot be acccomodated by the reservoir which leads to seal and hydraulic lock problems . I have 5 Maicos withs Ohlins and wouldn't run anything else . A lack of adjusters shouldn't put you off . Regards Scott
couldnt agree more, seen the pictures too Scott so you stick to your guns mate. personally I wouldnt waste my time even trying them, but The Scooter Marketing expert will poo poo anything with theoritical advice to save face and sell stock.... ::)....mmm me thinks back top that xmas special sale a while back, models only good enough to run on a trail. i see a few bikes that were running them have moved onto other brands latey did that go unnoticed in some of the forum pics..... ;)
Im always interested to see the remarks made and how quickly he can discredit anyone with an opinion on a brand, if its not his. Just because Scott raised questions or states his opinion about a product, its prity lame to have to stoop to callin him professor and so on, in any case hes probally smarter anyway than you wasp... ;D ;D
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Race a lot of long travel bikes Freaky?..... ::)
The point I'm trying to make is that yeah you might be able to get some shocks from overseas cheaper but it can end up costing more in the long run. I've never had a set yet arrive, go straight on a bike with nothing more to do. And are you gunna service them? :'(
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I'm with Scott, the Ohlins are a superior shock.. race proven at the highest level week in and week out in MXGP and MotoGP.
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Yep, I think we've got the message, Freaky doesn't like Walter and visa versa. Boom boom. Now can we move on without erupting into yet another slagfest. Feel the love kids :-*.
I recommend Curnutts to solve your shocking woes but what would I know? ::)
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The Ohlins are a vastly better shock . The YSS are fundamentaly flawed due to increase in the shaft diameter after the original design . The extra volume displaced by the shaft cannot be acccomodated by the reservoir which leads to seal and hydraulic lock problems . I have 5 Maicos withs Ohlins and wouldn't run anything else . A lack of adjusters shouldn't put you off . Regards Scott
This can hapen no matter what brand the shock, if its been designed or modified or rebuilt incorrectly (setting of piston depth). The displaced oil from the shaft entering the shock has to go somewhere, so if the reservoir is not big enough to accomodate the oil displacement then ofcourse your gonna get a hydraulic lock which can bend shafts and do all sorts of things. Somethings gotta give. Ive done the measurements for some shocks with less than 1/2 dia shafts and worked out out how much oil is displaced over the length of the shaft and how much the reservoir piston moved and its not that much and you would have to set the piston way high for a lock to happen but theres so many variables.
Most guys reckon you dont need external adjusters, but i do like them on my WP's (White Power) just because they look cool and retro 8)
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i have a set of gazi remotes on a 77 rm125. external rebound/compression adj. $799. raced hard on them for 6 months and cant fault them so far.
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Ross Ross Ross :( The frame colour of the 414 is definitely incorrect and the shock mounting bolts don't have little holes through them :o How the hell can you live with yourself for Gods sake :P Where oh where did the side stand mount come from :o
:D ;D
Oh and I think YSS and Ohlins are great shocks so are WP along with several others. Much of a shocks performance comes down to how they are set up. A black art that only a few have mastered and unfortunately I am not included in the few.
Also love the Maico that this thread all started with. Top job. Pick the best shocks you can afford and from someone that gives you the confidence that you will get the support you need.
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Interesting how some one innocently asks for advice and the thread always seems to end up in a shit fight.
Also interesting the definitions of hydraulic lock .
If a closed container like a shock does not have enough "free" volume . ie gas volume .to allow the shaft to travel into the shock of course the shock will lock , or most likely the seals will blow out to allow the shaft to continue , or the shaft might give under the pressure and bend but that is not hydraulic lock .Hydraulic lock can in theory happen in a shock and is not really dependant on free volume in the shock to which allows the shaft to completely travel into the body its full length.
Its dependant on the volume of oil that can pass through whatever dampening oriface or restrictive passage there is for a given time.
Early prolink shocks had very small pasage for oil to flow from the shock to the res. The shaft wasnt that big but on compression the oil that it displaced was too much to travel from the shock to the res. This created what the mag testers called a "mid range spike" , its not really true hydraulic lock .
If you compressed those shocks by hand you would never feel it because you cant compress the shaft quick enough - the oil goes through at a relatively slow speed but hit a big whoop on the track and the speed and therefore the volume of oil per sec trying to get through was a problem . The mod at the time was to bore out the holes in the shock and the res. and this helped solve the problem.
The oil displaced by the shaft into the res. is regulated by to adjuster or hole at the res.and the shaft diameter ,bigger or smaller is relative to it.
The main valve in the shock isnt affected by the shaft size but by the speed at which the shaft travels into the shock body.If the holes in the main valve are too small for the speed and volume of oil then "hydraulic lock" or "mid range spike " also happens.Both terms are not really correct IMO its just over dampening.
note ITC ohlins used an hydraulic lock type valve at the end of the shaft to help resist bottoming, similar to the bottom out cones on your forks- modern works and aftermarket suspensions use similar setups.
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I remember a mate telling me once that if you had sex while under water you could suffer from "hydraulic lock"
Or does this have something to do with shaft size, small passages, too much displacement and shaft speed of 38 m /per second or more .
Allthough apparently a the blow off valve can open and a lock as such can not occur .
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:D :D :D :D
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I remember a mate telling me once that if you had sex while under water you could suffer from "hydraulic lock"
Or does this have something to do with shaft size, small passages, too much displacement and shaft speed of 38 m /per second or more .
Allthough apparently a the blow off valve can open and a lock as such can not occur .
haha Geoff , hope your missus appreciates the amount of thought that you've obviously put into the main issue.
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Ross Ross Ross :( The frame colour of the 414 is definitely incorrect and the shock mounting bolts don't have little holes through them :o How the hell can you live with yourself for Gods sake :P Where oh where did the side stand mount come from :o
Aw gee Greg. I'll go and kill myself right now.... :-X
a: That's the colour the frame was when I got the bike as ref side-stand mount. I had just a few other minor problems with the bike upon purchase re stuffed motor/carburation/air supply and everything else was just totally knackered.
b: Said shock bolts have been replaced by the proper ones I took off your VB after I sold it to you. ;)
I appologise profusely for the inconveineance caused to yourself by showing such a sad standard of professionalism. I hope you didn't spill your cup of evening Milo over yourself in shock at witnessing such a poor speciman....... :-[
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Ross Ross Ross :( The frame colour of the 414 is definitely incorrect and the shock mounting bolts don't have little holes through them :o How the hell can you live with yourself for Gods sake :P Where oh where did the side stand mount come from :o
Aw gee Greg. I'll go and kill myself right now.... :-X
a: That's the colour the frame was when I got the bike as ref side-stand mount. I had just a few other minor problems with the bike upon purchase re stuffed motor/carburation/air supply and everything else was just totally knackered.
b: Said shock bolts have been replaced by the proper ones I took off your VB after I sold it to you. ;)
I appologise profusely for the inconveineance caused to yourself by showing such a sad standard of professionalism. I hope you didn't spill your cup of evening Milo over yourself in shock at witnessing such a poor speciman....... :-[
you might as well come clean and put the head light back on as well
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Aw gee Greg. I'll go and kill myself right now.... :-X
a: That's the colour the frame was when I got the bike as ref side-stand mount. I had just a few other minor problems with the bike upon purchase re stuffed motor/carburation/air supply and everything else was just totally knackered.
b: Said shock bolts have been replaced by the proper ones I took off your VB after I sold it to you. ;)
I appologise profusely for the inconveineance caused to yourself by showing such a sad standard of professionalism. I hope you didn't spill your cup of evening Milo over yourself in shock at witnessing such a poor speciman....... :-[
[/quote]
Point B - Do'oH I know and it has nawed at me ever since the 360 was unloaded
Appology accepted and yes the shock of the paint colour, side stand mount and shock bolts caused me to leave my scotch fingers bickie dunked in my Ovaltine (not milo thats for morning tea silly) for exactly 5 seconds too long and it just dropped right off which as you can imagine caused all hell to break out.
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it just dropped right off which as you can imagine caused all hell to break out.
Damn...my Anzac biscuit just did the same thing into my morning hazelnut capuchino while I was reading this.....bugger.
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no point wasp. just letting others know of another shock available.
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it just dropped right off which as you can imagine caused all hell to break out.
Damn...my Anzac biscuit just did the same thing into my morning hazelnut capuchino while I was reading this.....bugger.
Firko don't you find the golden syrup flavour of the Anzac clashes with hazelnut??? Surely Anzac bickies should be consumed with billy tea ;) This multi cultural Australia we live offers so many bickie / hot drink combinations its unbelievable :) Most of these combination work really well when they are combined in the right amounts and adjusted correctly. ;D
Surprise surprise the bickie thing has a point besides making me hungry, again!!! Very much like VMX bikes and shocks. Good quality shocks (YSS, Ohlins, WP and several others) on nicely restored VMX bikes work great when well set up and everything is adjusted correctly 8).
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Firko don't you find the golden syrup flavour of the Anzac clashes with hazelnut??? Surely Anzac bickies should be consumed with billy tea This multi cultural Australia we live offers so many bickie / hot drink combinations its unbelievable
I couldn't agree more Monty, one of the joys of my life is to experiment with the culinary experience. The Anzac bikkie/hazelnut capucchino, while being delightful taste sensation, also has valid cross references to modern Australia's wonderful and ever expanding multi cultural society which in turn has an unexpected cross relevance to my taste in multi cultural vintage bikes such as my Italian/American Hindall Ducati, British/Japanese Cheney Yamaha and so on.
This mornings dunking of an Anzac into my Cappuccino was symbolic of the ever changing cultural demographic of our great nation and for the diversity of my motorcycle collection. :D
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Next think you know you be using iced VoVos with bloody gerkin dip :o
Have to say that I like my VMX bikes as Pedro intended but have respect for all makes and the challenge of special building.
Back to shocks and '78 Maicos. Ummmmm Yes :-\
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Don't know what happened, I must have hit the wrong key....it's a problem being left handed and using a right handed keyboard. Forget the Pedemayer reference....it was heading into a direction I didn't want to go....Interesting bloke though......anyway...here's what I meant to write in the first place. ;D ;D
I wouldn't let one of those crap modern Iced VoVo's anywhere near my legendary home made gherkin dip. Arnott's have blown it with the current VoVo. Bastards!
Ohlins, YSS. I use 'em both and they're both great. Granted I don't ride my bikes to the extent many of you guys do any more but the guys who do race my bikes ride them hard and they both have only good reports on the YSS suspension on both bikes. Being able to access Walter regarding any technical aspect is a plus over the others in my book. I've heard more positive reports on YSS shocks than negative so that'll do me. Ohlins reputation and quality is beyond reproach as well but it's the technical access that wins it for me.
I had far more blown seals and oil leaks with Works Performance shocks than all the rest combined over the years and some people swear by them so it's really down to doing your homework and buying the best shock you can afford. Right now I'm going through an Arnaco period. They're an early to mid seventies shock that operates on a PD valve kind of system with varying shims to make them infinitely tunable. They were years ahead of their time and work a treat. I had Walter do a NOS pair for me and he was impressed by the advanced design for their day. The only problem is finding the correct oil seal O ring which seems to be a one off made just for Arnaco. I've got them on my Cheney and I've just built another pair for the Benelli project.
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we eagerly await part 2 of firkos post........
did the doorbell/phone ring, did he need to take a slash or was he promised a Midday matinee ?
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......saw him swim the English channel? Saw him keep wicket for the Coventry County second 11's? Watched him crack the atom?.......
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........ heard he over charged some bloke in Ballarat for a chain roller by 600%
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........ heard he over charged some bloke in Ballarat for a chain roller by 600%
:D :D :D
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Smart pricks ;D.....I hit the wrong key it seems, I didn't know until I'd finished the post...in the middle I did actually answer the door and open today's eBay buy so sorry to keep you all waiting....... ;D
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or falcons ::)
(http://i382.photobucket.com/albums/oo263/ozmaico/IMGP2048-2.jpg)
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or falcons ::)
(http://i382.photobucket.com/albums/oo263/ozmaico/IMGP2048-2.jpg)
Paul,
buddy, chum, pal, mate, good bloke, etc. etc. it`s about time that beast got some dirt on it ?? so when are we heading out to Parwin for a spin. ?? :)
Must admit i`m starting to like those Maicos. Did i just say that.
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Your coming down with Red Fever Billet ?
take 3 tuning forks and call me in the morning.
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I only wrote a post to save someone from spending hard earned money on an ordinary product.I have been racing Maicos since 75 (got 5 ) and have had a business specialising in Motorcycle Tyres and suspension for nearly 20 years. We've been involved in vintage and modern motocross,Supersport,superbikes, pro-stock and classic roadracing.Our main suspension guy has worked for HRC and at the AMA supers. Also a close mate had a good look at YSS as he was offered a distributorship .Most of their products work well,we run a pair of their premium shocks on our period 5 GSX 1100. The motocross shock is not a good product-originallydeigned for a 12mm shaft-then upgraded to 16mm with no allowance for extra shaft displacement.This causes seal problems and harsh compression dampening .Regards Scott
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Thanks for your concern re my hard earned Scott. Each to their own.... ::)
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Have you dickheads even realised that the new guy who started this thread is long gone. and why wouldn't they be. You have turned a perfectly legit question into your own personal syber shit fight A,forkin,gain.
Piss off with your personal vendetta's and let the guy share his ride resto. >:( >:(
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err ;D Roostin440 is actually over in the Suzuki camp getting some real feedback on real bikes ::)..just quietly I reckon he just needs to swindle a ride on his mates RM when it's a goer and he'll instantly see the big picture :-X ;D
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Well, not to go off on a tangent, thank you guys for the help. I guess I'll decide on the shocks once the bike is done and I here it run. The motor looks ok inside but you never know. My friend got screwed on a RM deal so I'll help him put his bike together and track down the right parts. It will give me something to do while I wait for the rest of my parts to show up.
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Well said Evo.
Good to see that Rosstin hasn't been scared off completely, (only scared off to Suzuki's) ;D
As for the tank mount question, the frames had different mounting brackets for alloy or plastic tanks and I think the era of 78 / 79 is when they changed tanks?
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(http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/ee61/Ohlins.jpg)
Great product , reasonably priced with great customer service and back-up. A little more difficult to adjust , but having said that a great and well supported product.
But as Ross said , each to his own.
Or as Shoey say's , stick to a product that you have confidence in , same as each to his own.
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[IM(http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/ee61/HL500.jpg)G]http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/ee61/Finished430CRHusky.jpg[/IMG](http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/ee61/Bullet4.jpg)(http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/ee61/My490Maico_150.jpg)(http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/ee61/250Mag.jpg)
Some recent Ohlins applications
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(http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/ee61/390ACC.jpg)(http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/ee61/New390_160.jpg)(http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/ee61/VMX_42_cover.jpg)
(http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/ee61/Longleggedbeauty_154.jpg)
(http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/ee61/1976Wr360.jpg)
Some of our restorations featuring restored ohlins products.
Ohlins like most products are rebuildable (providng they have not been overly abused).
Generally the cost for restaoration is far far better than buying new
Most parts for Ohlins are still available.
Ohlins are a Long term producer and product supporter of a great range of products. (Cars and Bikes)
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Hey paul
Diane suggested that i keep it and i think it was wise advice. I had a peak at the beast in the shed last nite. Sure is nice.
cheers
Shoey
(I should get rid of that advert.)
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If that picture post that you so conveniently removed , is directed at "The Ohlins" products described.
Well the Ohlins shocks described and shown have been faultless D""" head.
Your continual posting's and disparaging comments on this web site under different pseudonyms is uncalled for and for that reason , i have sent a request to the team operating this site stating that concern.
This site is for genuinely funny comments , sharing of genuine information and normal discourse, "my opinion only" if you dont have that in you , keep it to your self.
Your a real clown fella. But not the funny type
"And yes you removed your posts". Typical of your behaviour and your operating proceedure
Shoey
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Now
Back to the examples shown.
As we are all aware ,there are many products on the market and each to there own and everybodies entitled to an opinion.
But Ohlins are a product that has been around , practically forever and proven time and time again .
Great customer service and back-up as is the case with most brands.
Shoey
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shoey good thinking ,it a nice maico
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Thanks Paul
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I bought a bunch of polished stainless flange bolts for the project. Very expensive and it turns out they are pretty, but absolute crap. They will barley stick to a magnet and the heads will strip with ease. I dont normally bash anything in public but stay away from Pro Bolt. I did find a local store with a very good selection of stainless bolts, flanged, hex, socket, tapered ect.. Looks like I'll have Maico Only build me a set of Ohlins shocks for the bike.
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They will barley stick to a magnet
SS is non-ferous. That's why it's used for (particle) beam lines
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There are several families of stainless steels with different physical properties. Basic stainless steel has a 'ferritic' structure and is therfore magnetic. These are formed from the addition of >10.5% chromium and can be hardened through the addition of carbon making them 'martensitic' and are often used in cutlery etc.
However, the most common stainless steels are 'austenitic' - these have a higher chromium content and nickel is also added. It is the nickel which modifies the physical structure of the steel and makes it non-magnetic.
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Good information. I guess I'll put a regular stainless bolt and one of the new ones in a vise and give them a strength test.
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There are several families of stainless steels with different physical properties. Basic stainless steel has a 'ferritic' structure and is therfore magnetic. These are formed from the addition of >10.5% chromium and can be hardened through the addition of carbon making them 'martensitic' and are often used in cutlery etc.
However, the most common stainless steels are 'austenitic' - these have a higher chromium content and nickel is also added. It is the nickel which modifies the physical structure of the steel and makes it non-magnetic.
No wonder you crash so much. All this stuff going through your head ('austenitic' indeed)..... :P
I have absolutely no what idea when it comes to nuts and bolts! :(. All I know is it's "left to loosen" however that's not always the rule when you ride Monts and at the bolt shop I always ask for "high tensile" so's I look as though i know what I'm talking about.
Stainless are the shiny ones right? :P
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There are several families of stainless steels with different physical properties. Basic stainless steel has a 'ferritic' structure and is therfore magnetic. These are formed from the addition of >10.5% chromium and can be hardened through the addition of carbon making them 'martensitic' and are often used in cutlery etc.
However, the most common stainless steels are 'austenitic' - these have a higher chromium content and nickel is also added. It is the nickel which modifies the physical structure of the steel and makes it non-magnetic.
Thanks for that Montynut. I always thought it was the chrome that did in the ferous properties of iron
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Yes Ross indeed it is 'austenitic' sometimes also known as 'gamma'.
I assume you carry a big shifter (left handed naturally) while you buy bolts to support your "high tensile" line of convicing them that you are a Bolt Guru :D. I'm not a bolt expert. You know what they say about experts 'X' is an unknown quantity and 'pert' is a drip under pressure ;D
I didn't crash last weekend I did blow the crap out of an engine instead but I did not crash 8)