Where have all the old boys gone

[AjayVMX]

Lucky you're not in NSW Doc...our state Government would be wanting to Tunnel across and then charge a toll as well.

[Evil Rudy]

I think that the only bridge to be built is the one some of you need to get over it...

I’ve never had any problems with Heaven with compliance, what part is what, can’t use this or that etc.

The forks on my 77 RM appear to be wrong; they hang below the axel for the anal among us. They could be same year 125 forks or could be the off limits cheater 78 C2 ones – dread.

I told the club, they said just sign up... so I did. I raced. I got my arse handed to me.

Earlier in the year in the supposed pre 78 open class on the last lap I got passed for 24th or 25th place by a guy clearly riding a PE400 that wasn’t pre 78 – shame.

The only thing I cared about was - did I put my chair close to the esky so I didn’t have to get up twice for a drink. All he and I could do was laugh at each other about the pass and the fact we we’re cramping up sitting in our chairs. Great guy, good times.

I could put every bit of trickery and clickery on my bike and the only chance I have of winning is being in the porta-loo when al Qaeda guns down the start line of my moto.

Nice pun firko, and I agree that at times he may have an acerbic nature, but where would the club be if he and the others didn’t step in a few years ago and devote their considerable time to it?

I wouldn’t have been able to join this year, and some would have nothing to bitch about.

... and I think signing up in advance is perfect. Saves a lot of BS on the day for club officials (having been one for a couple of years with HDMCC) who are already stretched with last minute things. If you don’t put a financial penalty we’ll all just rock up and not help the club by pre-entering.

It’s not like they keep your money if you give them plenty of notice. I got caught interstate for the last race and they just rolled the entry over for the last round of the year. Good people.

The pits rules and the no photos for VMX is BS and should be rectified forevermore.

These are good people and they VOULUNTEER.

Every office is open, so put your bitching to good use and run for an office. Otherwise shut up and ride (wasn’t that on a t-shirt?).

I don’t care if they elect Sheikh Taj El Din al-Hilaly pres of HEAVEN, I’m still showing up when I’m allowed out of the house unsupervised.

Merci beaucoup.

[magoo]

I reckon there are a few reasons why guys aren't turning up any more but eligibility isn't one of them. My bike is clearly illegal as the rules are, but hey, it's fun to ride and who gives a shit. I've NEVER seen an eligibility issue at a Heaven meeting and I don't think anyone has ever been beaten in a race because of a bike cheating issue, it's always the rider.

I know guys who don't turn up any more for work, health or money reasons but disgruntlement is also an issue. I speak to heaps of guys and seem to hear a similar story from quite a few, and a couple of times I have spoken up I've been shut down, even being told in one instance by a very senior committee member that I had " single handedly forked the sport of vintage motocross in NSW" . Therefore, no more, I'll just do what I want, when I want.
This year I've been to Jack Hogg, Coffs Dirt Track, Coffs Nationals, Classic Dirt, Conondale Classic, Wagga Nationals and Canberra Heaven (riding Saturday and not racing Sunday) and have had a really good year. Great variety and some terrificly good times. I just wish everyone could get on and be happy, and understand the difference between a political debate and an argument. Just because you disagree with someone doesn't mean you need to turn and disassociate yourself from them.

Sadly, over the last few years I've seen some real agro between people of like minds and similar loves, especially when blokes are treated with disrespect. As grown men that is one thing that none of us will tolerate. You either stand and fight or walk away. Sadly, a lot of guys have chosen to walk away.

[vmx42]

Sorry Guys,
I must have missed something here. I can't remember bagging HEAVEN. This post was started and has evolved into people offering helpful  suggestions as to why some riders haven't stayed with the sport.

Nobody has specifically bagged HEAVEN but there has been discussion as to why Classic Dirt numbers are up significantly and attendance is down at some race meetings. Simple as that. I can't see any bitchin' just constructive ideas.

Actually I think that most of the posters on this thread have been genuinely constructive and positive in their comments.

Good to hear that there have been no eligility issues with HEAVEN, the subject was only raised because in the past it has been a issue at other events and therefore could have contributed to the decline in numbers.

All the people who volunteer should be applauded - that wasn't the purpose of this discussion. There have been some great ideas thrown around in this thread. Where we go from here to try to turn that into bums on seats at events I don't know. But it isn't a bad starting point.

Magoo asked the question and people have tried to answer, nothing more - nothing less. Nobody needs to be defended because nobody has been attacked - if they [whoever they are?] feel they have been then I for one am happy to offer an appology but from where I am sitting it has been an enlightening discussion done without resorting to anything personal.

Good work in my book and a positive use of this fine forum.
VMX42

P.S. and Magoo, I don't think you could single handedly f@#k anything, you would need both hands at least!!!

[Freakshow]

regardless of club level, at a national level or state titles event your bike has to be pre 75 legal or it makes the whole event a joke.

[husky61]

Evil Rudy

[AjayVMX]

regardless of club level, at a national level or state titles event your bike has to be pre 75 legal or it makes the whole event a joke.

Hopefully you mean Pre78?

and of course there should soon be EVO/pre 85 Nationals, surely?   

[Doc]

[TM BILL]

On a positive note  DJ & myself bang on about how great VMX is this side of the ditch and it is , but i must say that the events iv'e ridden at and attended in Aus have always been awsome events to .
Some of the things i really like over there are

 1. Reasonably full grids of same capacity same era bikes ( Here we tend to combine classes )
 2. Racing on proper tracks with jumps and start gates  ( natural terrain & Bungys here )
 3. Awesome friendly people who make you feel you have been mates forever ( Ditto here )

Bottom line is that i beleive that VMX is alive and healthy on both sides of the Tasman and long may it remain that way 

The discussions on this forum show that all involved have a huge passion for the sport and recreation side of VMX and that it will continue to evolve .

Im already planning my trip to the Tassie nats and i am hoping some more from this side will join me .

Stay upright stay positive  Bill

[Evil Rudy]

Look at the “views” this thread has gotten – over 1400! Everyone loves a train wreck.

So after a couple of Merlots, a Scotch and counting to 10 like an episode of Sesame Street I offer this…

Wow the pre 78 barb was amusing, however given that you didn't demonstrate an understanding of the context of my essay or the specific reference to the racing class mentioned, it's disappointing that you use the English language for a living. Love the pictures though.

Also, trying to elicit a debate on a “Nationals” class for EVO and pre-85 won't work as I have no developed opinion at this time. Which is a polite way of saying I don't give a flying f*ck in f*ck-storm.

If I'm off base in my reading of your comments, I apologize in advance for the misunderstanding. I'm psychotic not psychic so I don't read in tongues let alone speak them.

As for the passive aggressive “hey now, lets all get along – no one’s attacking anybody“ vanilla smoothie, I think you too have also missed the point of my mild flareup.

Again if I'm missing your point, please accept my hollow apology, I have a spine.

Both of you – please don't cut me off from my quarterly fix - I beg you.

At issue (and not just in this thread) is that it seems the only club / state / people having a bitch on the site reside in NSW and may have had something to do with HEAVEN.

At least I know what to give out at Christmas. Bras.

Some of you can bitch more than my mother – (in a sweat way, with no harm intended of course).

I digress.

Don't get so bent because you don't get your own way with this or that. In a world of immediate gratification I know this can be hard, but if things are so bad, run for office next weekend and fix it.

Don't get so bent that you stay home. Come to the meetings when possible in spite of the people you disagree with.

Don't get so bent you type polite jabs at people trying to do their best.

Don't get so bent.

Maybe we should take a leaf (or a ewe) from our Kiwi brethren and all just have a drink and a great time. It appears (on the surface) that sex with quadrupeds soothes the savage pre 75 racer.

Not that I've insulted and verbally maimed at will, let the slings and arrows begin.

A “shot across the bow” from Nathan perhaps?

Or a skerrick of smite from Merrick? (You know I must digress further here. Something is deeply wrong with a go fast - chain smoking accountant… love your work).

I will also have extra beer at Clarence to suck up to those I have offended. I hope you show up. It will be a better weekend with you than without you.

[Hoony]

what tha ?

[YSS]

Thats a long letter Rudi , but what do you mean .

[husky61]

Evil Rudy you bloody crazy (Americian or Canadian "can't remember")

Come over to and see me at Clarence . Im pretty sure we had a great talk and a great time at Canberra last year.  (Is that the same person?) ex AF and recon. etc? its been about a year

[no.13]

Giday Guys just got back from holidays after attending Wagga so sorry I havnt put in my comments earlier.Magoo you big lump you beat me in the 125 class and to think I was encouraging you over to the dark side (wont do that again) Thanks to Wagga Club for keeping our title alive.Thanks to Dave Tanner for the loan of his 125 Kawasaki when after a total rebuild of the Sickman we kicked it over only to discover it was blowing gearbox oil out of the exhaust pipe. Sorry to the guy on the immaculate Honda sitting behind me in the pits who ended up with all that oil over his bike!! Very dissappointed that as riders we didnt support the event and through no fault of the Club age groups had to be put together to give decent grids. I felt very sorry for the likes of Donny newell and our other legends who rode against riders from 16 years and up without bitching but must be considering wheather it will be worthwhile to enter again under those circumstances (again no fault of Wagga I blame ourselves as riders for not backing the event)  Now lets look at why and this is my 2 bobs worth. After talking to Firko leading up to our moto-x titles at Coffs and many people leading up to Wagga our Club will be putting in a submission to M.A. and the Commisioners with a few things that we feel need to change for hopefully the good of the sport.As we counted the cost of actually doing the whole trip we worked out from Coffs in our bus we used $500.00 in fuel. Cost to enter was $160.00. About $200.00 in food & drinks along the way and you can see in todays economic climate that we could be cutting some of our Senior riders out straight away. 1st point is to diminish the cost from M.A. to even run the event. Permit fees of over $3000.00 for a Club to host a National Title in vintage are totally out of touch with a sport that is struggling to get enough entries to even run the event.If this permit fee is reduced Clubs can reduce their entry fee. 2nd piont is to bring the age groups from 10 needed on the grid to constitute a Championship down to 5. We are losing our older riders anyway and thats not going to change its an age thing and we all know its happening but we must still support the older riders willing and wanting to compete, they are our history and need to be given every recognition as do the bikes they ride because we will lose that side also. M.A. must also be willing to enforce no other like minded events 2 weeks before and after a National Title to give people more opportunity to step out of Club Championships and other favoured events and attend a title. Again thank you very much Wagga I had a mixed weekend with bikes heat exhaustion and flys(where did all the flys in the whole world come from) but would not have missed it. I will grab any other points of view off you guys for our submission if thats o.k. and I urge you all to put pen to paper as if you want a change its the only way to get there.

[AjayVMX]

Hi Don.

I think your suggestions re the National Titles are very well intentioned however in particular, reducing grid sizes to make a National Title class viable is not a good idea in my opinion.  It devalues the meaning of the title "Australian Champion" in my eyes and would also make running the event even more difficult than it already is. 

I have empathy for the older riders having to compete with the younger riders, but I always come back to the view that for the National Titles, which is after all a very serious race event, the emphasis must be on who is fastest, not how many titles we can award on a single day.

Also IMHO, small grids of riders in Vintage race meetings are part of the problem that is causing people to leave the sport.  They mean that you get less riding for your dollar, as it's just logistically impossible to run more rounds of racing on a given day when you have 20 classes compared to say, 10.  I am a strong believer that like classes should be combined to make large grids and then if necessary, the classes can be scored separately from the results.  This would make for better racing overall and also enable clubs to get through more rounds of racing in a single day.  This would also be true for the Nationals.

And of course, NO vintage events should be run anywhere in Australia on the same day as a National title, to try and ensure we give the title event the best possible chance of drawing the numbers required to make it viable.  Some may see this as being directed at HEAVEN - it is, by the way (sorry Rudi  ), but it could easily apply to any other club that runs an event in competition to a national title event.  HEAVEN's decision to reschedule the EVO challenge on the same weekend of the Wagga DT Titles (even though everyone knew that the DT titles were on the calendar) was a poor one indeed.

Notwithstanding the above, the National Titles are not the issue here as far as I can tell.  The real issue is the grass roots numbers of riders participating in club events.  If the overall numbers of clubs riders was stronger than it is now, it's highly likely that events such as the Nationals would be better attended and the class and cost issues, while still significant, would be less of a problem.

So as this thread progresses, I come back to the idea that we need to have less serious race events and more events which emphasise the FUN aspects of our sport.  If we do that, I'm sure the old boys will return...