Where have all the old boys gone

[magoo]

I was down at the Wagga Nationals last weekend and the fun we had was out of this world. We were drinking and bullshitting a lot, as you do, and the subject came up about where the old guys have gone to. I'm not even talking about guys from the early days of VMX but even the early days of the noughties.
I spoke to someone who went to Bulahdelah last weekend for the first time in 12 months and they only knew half a dozen people. I know most of the old timers and know for a fact 95% have still got their bikes and are still keen, but why aren't they turning up any more?
Any ideas?

[suzuki43]

Magoose, I think that you will find that a lot of the good buggers have had enough of the NSW vmX politics and have moved on.I of course have moved back to the home of good looking sheep and great VMX tracks-Kiwi land!!

[DJRacing]

Suzuki43, is this CT?
If you are CT, then you should have been at the N v's S meeting and then you could have added in the great piss-ups after the meeting , and boy those sheep look even better at 5am

But on a more serious note, it is sad to hear that some of the older guys arent turning up to vmx meetings. If they feel they are getting a bit to brittle to be racing maybe the club could look at having a couple of "show your bike" rides were no racing is allowed. That way they still get to ride, the younger members still get the benefit of their knowledge, and everyone gets to see their bikes.
Politics and bikes dont go together, thats why we ride bikes,.... to get away from politics.

[Hoony]

well said

[firko]

The reasons for the older racers dropping from the program are as varied as the stars in the sky. Everything from business and family pressures, old age and its associated injuries, and dodgy club politics have all had their impact on falling numbers. As much as I don't wish to criticize club officials and the folks who go the hard yards organising clubs and events, it's a sad reality that certain officials have driven more people from the sport than they have encouraged. I've been working on this problem for a few years now and when I ask former competitors why they have dropped out of the sport, you can bet that the word 'wanker' will turn up somewhere in their explanation. Sadly according to those disheartened racers, the wanker quota gets thicker, the closer you getto the top in some clubs. While natural attrition would appear to be the main reason for the drop off in pre 75 and older classes, rude, overbearing officials and petty club politics seems to be the outstanding culprit in the Evo and later divisions.

Rather than expanding the sport by introducing later year cutoffs (pre 90 etc.) I reckon our eforts would be better spent rebuilding bridges the 'wanker faction' have destroyed and strive to get those missing racers back into the fold. As Magoo says, many of the disgruntled punters still have their bikes so why not try and lure them back to a solid, united sport that can offer a shitload of low key fun with minimal wanker interference.

I know that a lot of ex vintage racers are still interested enough to lurk on this forum from time to time. Using this thread, it'd be interesting to hear some of those 'retirees' reasons for dropping out. Remember though, no personal assasinations or slag attacks. We need to keep it all civil so we may be able to use the responses to help guide our sports future and to avoid losing future enthusiasts.

[Noel]

Hi,
One of the reasons that you have seen me rabbiting on in the pre 90 thread is .
because  as the current committee is not standing again next year , I  have been approached to be on the committee of one of the NSW clubs,
I am only relatively new to VMX, and do not have a lot of history to draw on and comparisons,
to earlier  years,
Hence my  interest in what would help in moving forward in a positive way,.
purposely I haven't really been putting my personal views out there just trying to state
what I see as the facts and questioning some of the responses and trying to sort them as best I can
given the boundaries with which  I see we have to work with,
So far I see that It  may mean that some of the older
attitudes to what the sport was able to  do may need updating as well,
( but as Yet I do not know the full workings) so I'm prepare to be enlightened

My understanding which only goes back three years is that Heaven was on the verge of imploding .
The bulk of the current committee stepped in with a mission to keep a viable VMX only club running in NSW.
Three years later we have a viable club running but an under lying discontent by some , most of who have
voted with their feet and chosen not to support the current way that thing's  are running
What I have witnessed Is a small group of people working very had and yes sometimes doggedly to put on meetings for the Majority of its members ,MY view is that It has been done in a Business like way which may have taken some of the laided back easy going feel that some of us want as our recreation, And I'm not saying they made  perfect  decisions all the time
but the events have rolled on,  and  infrastructure for an ongoing concern has been built on
but obviously some toes have been trod on along the way.
having been to non Heaven run events as well over the last 3 years I don't see the void as being to wide and
would like to believe that the future for VMX in NSW could be positive,

this is not an Election speech as I have declined the invitation to be on the committee, though I plan to support who ever
is as best I can.

If any one would like to send me a PM  and enlighten me as to some of the problems feel free to do so,

cheers
Noel

[maicomc490t]

First off let me say this - While I have only been back in dirt bikes for seven years (and shite - have just noched up fifty!) I have been into bikes by my own hand since I was 12 and love anything with two wheels (well, most anything!). Throughout this period I have owned and ridden shitters, raced a bit, owned some half decent Ducatis, spun spanners and enjoyed a long association with the two wheeled fraternity for better or for worse.

From '76 I had close ties with the Ducati club (founding member - and no longer with em) and held positions from Prez down. In a small way I think this puts me in a position to make some observations of the NSW VMX scene which I have been on the periphery of for a number of years having met (and liked) John Glendenning who was one of the first to kick of HEAVEN, and remember vividly his passion for the new discipline which revolved around "No water cooling, No disc brakes, and no linkage suspension" and took and instant liking for the idea. Since then it has (and I think sensibly)expanding to embrace 'newer' bikes to ensure long term viability of the sport.

Since then I have been way to immersed in my kids and have missed some bloody good times - but wouldn't change anything (apart from matrimonial indescretions but that my friends is another story, lol!!!)

It is time ALL the bullshit stopped and EVERYONE pulled together to encourage EVERYONE to get together and leave their f&*^%$% ego's at home and make the sport achieve it's full potential. As an observer up till now it saddens me to see personalities and ego's get in the way of a bloody good time and if what my son and I witnessed last weekend at Buladellah was anything to go by I am not wasting another year watching but WILL be there when the season kicks off in 2008 and if this old fossil can do it everyone reading this can, so leave your bullshit and prejudices at home and see the sport grow again and who gives a flying fig about the politics! I have seen the Ducati club ride wave after wave of bullshit, dickheads and wankers - why? Because the bulk of the people that really matter - the die hards don't let it bother them and just get on with it (Oh and if you are wondering - the reason I am not that interested in road bikes anymore - because just about everyone in the dirt scene (except from some parents and their jumped up offspring) are bloody good people passionate about what they or their kids are involved in.

Cum lets see ALL of you at the back of the pack (or where ever) in 2008 

[Nathan S]

It is time ALL the bullshit stopped and EVERYONE pulled together to encourage EVERYONE to get together and leave their f&*^%$% ego's at home and make the sport achieve it's full potential. As an observer up till now it saddens me to see personalities and ego's get in the way of a bloody good time and if what my son and I witnessed last weekend at Buladellah was anything to go by I am not wasting another year watching but WILL be there when the season kicks off in 2008 and if this old fossil can do it everyone reading this can, so leave your bullshit and prejudices at home and see the sport grow again and who gives a flying fig about the politics!

Quoted for brilliance.

I was going to stay out of this thread because I'm clearly not the type of person Magoo was asking about. But the thread (already) has turned into a more general one...

I won't claim to have been actively involved in the VMX scene for long, but I do find it funny (and simeltaneously disappointing) to hear Joe Schmoe grizzling along the lines of "Joe Bloggs is a wanker and I'm never going to join HEAVEN while he's involved" - but (as fairly active HEAVEN member for the last two years) I've got NFI who Joe Bloggs is.... I'm always left with the image of the lost Japanese soldier on the deserted island, who doesn't realise that WW2 finished 8 years earlier - he's still fighting a war that's over, years after everyone else has moved on...
What's even sadder, is when Joe Bloggs has the same whinge about Joe Schmoe.

I've had zero problems with the way the current HEAVEN committee works - and have had a lot of help and support from them. While I don't totally agree with everything that happens, I also respect (and appreciate) the effort they put in.
And like MC490t said, when you actually go to a HEAVEN event, the vibe is overwhelmingly welcoming, positive and inclusive. How this club can be the source of all evil (as some have suggested) is completely and utterly beyond me. 

Don't let the Perfect be the enemy of the Good.
 
If you want to race VMX, then just go and do it.
No, you won't have beautiful 19 year old virgins giving you a massage after every race, you probably won't have a race format that suits you perfectly, the world will not bend to your every whim, and you might even have to enter in advance.
But you will get to enjoy your old bikes with a bunch of like-minded souls.
Surely this is why VMX exists, and all the rest is just fluff and nonsense!?

Alternatively, anyone who keeps their bikes in the shed, and stubbornly refuse to return (or get involved) until things are made exactly how they want them, are a big part of the problem... 

[DJRacing]

Magoo if you already know most of the old timers that still have bikes but dont go to meetings any more how come you havn't asked them why
And why havn't you talked them into coming back

If you get pissed off with the way something is done, you have 3 options;
1-  Do something about.
2-  Do nothing about.
3-  Walk away.

If you choose to walk away, who becomes the loser?
I don't persume to know the politics of your racing system over there, or the rift that seems to keep cropping up in this forum,(so maybe I'm speaking out of turn) but I do know that if you enjoy something enough you will find away to overcome the problems.
The "wanker faction" as it is put, is only up to the individual to believe. I would never let a wanker stop me from racing (or enjoying my racing). Hey, maybe I'm the wanker, I've go selective hearing so it wont bother me. But unless both parties want to work out their problems, the wanking continues.

[Lozza]

If the retirees want to sulk at home let them, if they want to be a part of it well by all means but FFS leave the baggage at home.
CD4 type events aren't the answer, that's one heavily promoted and hyped event per year, if there was 8 CD's per annum how many would turn up??
Never had any drama's with HEAVEN committee or members, so maybe I'm on another island  or NSW version of DJ???

[Yamaboy]

As a vintage racer who has been around since the late 80s I've seen a lot of changes in the VMX scene, some good, others bad.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the sport isn't as much fun as it was in the 90s. Even though we now have VMX magazine and the internet to assist in promoting the VMX cause,there doesn't seem to be the passion that was around in the earlier days. I was at Wagga last weekend and as Magoo noted it was a magic meeting. The problem however was the lack of numbers. In the 90s there would have been twice the number of entries without evo and pre 78 padding the program. All pre 75. The main difference between then and now is passion. Passion from not only the racers but passion and belief in the product by club heirachy.  Back then racers would drop everything to attend a Nationals event or a biggy like Condo but somehow that spirit seems to have faded. I saw a smidge of old school spirit and cameraderie in the Klub Kevlar pit at Wagga where the big talk was about helping get vintage biggys working again by attending great events like the Fred Hogg at Moruya and the Tassie Nats next year. The sense of fun cooperation and enthusiasm was great. I've been to HEAVEN events and even though I always enjoy myself, I always go home with a feeling that some passion was missing.

I'm also with Oldschool in calling for other non competitive outlets to draw the retirees back. How many interesting bikes and people did we see/meet at CD4?  Most of the original VMX competitors are now over 50 and a lot over 60  so it's a big ask to expect them to still have the passion to race but you can bet that , like Magoo said, they still have their bikes and are still interested. Big Firko hasn't raced since '95 or so but he's still building cutting edge and interesting bikes as he pushes 60. He's the figurehead of a silent majority of older riders that want to remain involved without racing. Ray Ryan once told us that 75% of VMX readership are non racing enthusiasts.

The bottom line is that we do have to sort out some problems before situations fester and get worse. Nathan's right when he says" Alternatively, anyone who keeps their bikes in the shed, and stubbornly refuse to return (or get involved) until things are made exactly how they want them, are a big part of the problem..."    but we should at least try to make it atractive enough for them to come back into the fold by making the events as suitable and friendly as we can. Grumpy officials and lacklustre events don't help at all.

[Lozza]

No.
Yes

Now answer my question

[Rosco400]

All the above points have merit, I think now there is an opportunity for the Old Boys to be part of the VMX scene now that annual committe positions are becoming vacant, they may want to step into these positions and be active in the promotion even if they dont want to race for whatever reasons which is there freedom of choice, may even be able to write into the constitution no wanker rule but that would probably wipe out most of my mates

[Freakshow]

Not sure this is what your thinking but we had the final round of our DT titles on sunday and had an invitational demonstration.

Now alot of the old club members dont fancy racing full time, have the commitment, be screwed paying the MA fees and have just raced for so many years one more poxy ride isnt worth the effort to be able to grid up and fight it out with some other guy who is now pissed off the old chap has frunted up for only one round at the seasons end and if by beating him has soaked up his valuable series points, has become more of a distraction, and thats where the "vibes come from". 

So what they did to ease all parties and bring the fold back in, was Run the Normal series for the "sheep station " riders, and as we did on the weekend had a 8 lap Club Legend Demonstration class .  So the drill was they could use any bike from any era, this brought out not only all the clubs valued  members who mostly work in Commitees etc  but also some of the 'Lost' members, BUT and even better all that sexy kit, those "special " bikes ( let me tell you, if you only knew how much "exotic" or kewl Rides are actually out there, and so close to home you would wet your pants with excitment). 

Being a Demonstration class they didnt need to pay all the fees, didnt need to spend time on set up and pit racing statergies, they just turned up and raced around the track for everyone to admire some previously "stored machines" and the event was fast for the first 3 laps, then turned into some kind of "slow down" or " charity cup" it decayed into antics, laughing and a jolly lot of fun, in the most part spurred on by the PA announcer.  In the end a fat guy on a peewee won so it really became a lunch time event.  The feedback i got from most of the guys was they just enjoyed the chance to ride around the track again without all the pressure and commitment at a full on race, the crowd and the fellow riders on the programe really enjoyed the event too.

Having said that a few of the older rider did indicate it might be a good time now the kids have gone to do one more year.  Maybe by inviting a rally style class for participants would open up the option for these people to have another look ? in a low key kinda way, cheap and no ongoing series commitments.

Why did the club put this event in the program for the last Home round ? There where a lot of forgotten current and retired riders/members, a lot out there floating around the fence, the club secretary and others wanted somthing to tip them back in.  The club wanted to get these guys invovled again and also put them on display for recognition by the club and sportfans.  They invited some of these well know former riders and club stalwarts and got a 110% success rate, i say 110% success rate because other previously unseen riders found out there old mates where going to take some laps they started calling in for a shot at the "forgotten riders title"

Even if these guys dont ride full time again, im sure the class will be put on at our final round again next year, and in the meantime i think some of these families will come back to the club and support us and they can interact with there old passion again, but still keep it freindly, or disconnect if they need too for all the reasons we have in Real life. 

[vmxrider]

Perhaps the current Heaven committee have done to good a job. With 10 or so 2 day events throughout the year it doesn't allow enough time to get really hungry for a race. Perhaps complacency has set in, its a case of, if I miss the next meeting another is just around the corner unless of course the motivation is the points score. Other things such as time, money , family and work commitments and fear of injury in aging bodies all factor in as well. 
Magoo, are there any updates on the moto mahem event at Oran Park?