Clearing my name and my bike

[090]

I will apologise in advance to those that think 'oh no, he is still going on with it'. All i can say to you other than an apology is that if you were accused of cheating by your bike not being legal, would you not want to clear your name? Clearly, nothing positive can really come from this but i feel strongly about this and the way the accuser went about it all. I certainly dont want to lose any friends i have made on here because of this, nor did i want to be on the wrong side of maicostu who has made me feel this way.
So here is your first post Maicostu that you pulled as you realised you were wrong.

   
   
Re: The pre-78 solo protest.
« Reply #59 on: August 12, 2009, 05:05:44 PM »
   Remove messageRemove
Quote from: maicostu on August 11, 2009, 10:53:20 PM
Hey Brad , Did you have restrictors in your aw?HuhHuhHuhHuhHuh
Dont think so?HuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuh?
I checked
Get off your high horse

Maico stu

The second one you pulled asked if i would hand my trophy back and another said that i cant measure my bike properly.I cant quote exactly and they certainly were not flattering. I can only show this first quote as i quoted it in my post.
So to summarize Stu you accused with no facts to back it up, pulled your posts when you realised your foot in mouth problem and the worst part of all that has made me go to these lengths , is no sign of an apology at all .
Once again sorry again for putting a downer to a great forum about a great sport which has become a major part of my life.
Here are the photos i took of my bike doing the measurements so there is no doubt my bike is legal.















As you can see , i have gone to alot of trouble pulling my bike apart to do these measurements. I will NEVER knowingly cheat nor cop someone telling the world i am one.
The FACTS!
Rear suspension . Fully extended is 465mm, on the bump stop is 285mm. Difference is 180mm, which equates to a fraction over 8 inches.
Front suspension. Fully extended is 235 mm, fully compressed leaves 28mm of distance between the seal wiper and underside of the triples as per photos. that equates to 8.15 inches.
My bike shits it in.
At least i will sleep well tonight.
VMX rules.

[GMC]

So the sales brochures exagerated the suspension travel, thats odd, they usually quote horsepower & weight quite accurately

I was dissapointed to see this bike out front though & thought long & hard about protesting it myself, after lengthy discussions with friends & officials they eventually convinced me that I can't actually protest you for not running a GMC pipe

Seriously though, you need to work on your maths, 180mm is a bit over 7 1/16"

[Kane Mcguire]

consider your name and bike cleared, even though you did not need to.

[maicostu]

     Hl Brad , you are still mearsuring it wrong
     Would you like me to explain to you how to measure it
     It will be more than 9" in travel
     Again rule 18.7.7.1
     a) regardless of original specification,no motorcycle may have more than 229mm(9") of suspension travel at the front and rear wheels
     I did not make these rules    
     I do not want to have a slagging match over the web
     But i am right    

     maico stu

[Graeme M]

OK MaicoStu, you keep telling us how this works but no details. I'm curious now! If Brad measures the difference between full compression and full extension and claims that figure is the suspension travel, I'd agree with him. It's how I've always figured it out. So, what's he doing wrong?

By the way, I might be a dill, but I'd have thought the rule should require the travel to be wheel travel, not suspension travel. Suspension travel would surely be how far the suspension unit travels, wouldn't it?

*Anyone?* Isn't wheel travel the distance the axle travels? So, measuring from a point on the frame directly above the axle to the axle extended and compressed, and finding the difference, must give the wheel travel. Mustn't it? I guess it'd be better to measure the actual distance of the arc of the rear wheel, but that's a bit too silly really, surely?

[090]

Would you like me to explain to you how to measure it

Please do. I asked you to in the other thread.

I do not want to have a slagging match over the web

   
Neither do i but as far as im concerned you started it. While you are here, if you are right, why pull your posts?
Prove i am wrong and i will appologise and hand my trophy to Bill who came second. No prob's. I am not a cheat and if my bike is wrong its through ignorance only ( which is no excuse).

[Curly3]

Brad I think you have gone above & beyond and Kane your attitude to the whole situation is exactly what our movement should be all about.
Well done to you both.

[brent j]

Graeme, I agree with measuring the vertical distance of wheel travel rather than along the arc of the swingarm.
If you had a 6' swingarm (since we are talking inches) the length of the arc of movement would be much the same as the travel but work it out at the other extreme with a 4.5" swingarm. Then the vertical travel is still 9" but the the arc of movement becomes about 14". Some how I don't think the 14" of movement will absorb any more than the same 9" bump the 6' long swingarm will.

Brad I agree with what you have done but I'm a bit sad that you had to go to this extreme.

When the "other Brent" came to race the Nationals we had modified the suspension on his YZ250D with spacers front and rear to make sure he only had 9". He didn't want the same thing happening if he had of won.

Stu, even if Brad doesn't want to know, I'm keen to find out how you are measuring the travel, front and rear.

Cheers

Brent

[LWC82PE]

this has a good description of measuring wheel travel. Read section 12.5
http://www.ahrma.org/rulebook/sec12.htm

so does this now proove the rule book/maico sales brochure is wrong and you dont have to put spacers in the 77 forks to reducs the travel since in standard trim they are under 9 inch anyway?

[Nathan S]

    Hl Brad , you are still mearsuring it wrong
     Would you like me to explain to you how to measure it
     It will be more than 9" in travel
     Again rule 18.7.7.1
     a) regardless of original specification,no motorcycle may have more than 229mm(9") of suspension travel at the front and rear wheels
     I did not make these rules    
     I do not want to have a slagging match over the web
     But i am right    

     maico stu

He's measuring it right.

If you want to be pedantic, the front vertical travel will be LESS than what Brad measured.

If you want to be REALLY pedantic, you might have half of a wobbly argument's annoying little brother if you wanted to point out that if the rear axle was right to the back of the adjustment it would gain a (miniscule) mount of travel. In reality, the rear wheel would have fallen out long before Brad's bike had more than 9" of travel.
And you'd have to make the decision on how the bike was actually raced, not what it could be.

[090]

I am currently talking with Stu via pm to get this sorted. If measurements are different then i have stated , i will report them here.

[Mick D]

 TECH INSPECTION OF STATED SUSPENSION TRAVEL LIMITS.
a) FRONT SUSPENSION:  The  field check for the front wheel travel, where applicable is as follows:
1) Compression springs are to be removed with the bike on a stand and both wheels off the Ground. 2) A cable tie is to fitted around one staunchion. 3) The bike is then to be lowered of the stand, so that the front suspension becomes fully compressed by the weight of the bike. 4) The cable tie records the maximum extent of full compression position, and cable tie is to be left there in that position. 5) The bike is then raised back on to the stand so that the front wheel is completely of the ground and drops to its lower limit. 6) A measurement will then be taken from the cable tie down to the top of the wiper. That measurement is the exact amount of travel, unless the suspension has been fitted with rebound bump springs! 7) In that case the
front wheel is to be pulled down by an assistant to compress the rebound springs. At this instant the distance will be measured from the cable tie to the top of the wiper. This will then be recorded as the full amount of front suspension travel. In the later case both compression and rebound have been factored into calculation to produce the full sum of total travel.

b) REAR SUSPENSION: The field check for rear wheel travel, where applicable, is as follows:
1) Both shocks are removed from the bike, then one bare (without spring) damper unit is reinstalled. 2) The machine is supported in such a fashion that the rear suspension is at maximum extension, and a measurement is taken from the center of the rear axle to a point marked directly above the axle on the rear fender or subframe. 3) With both wheels on the ground, the rear suspension is fully compressed by the examiner with the rider aboard to compress any rubber bumpers; a measurement is again taken from the center of the rear axle to the same marked point above. 4) The measurement obtained in step 3 subtracted from the measurement in
step 2 is the wheel travel.An alternative method of determining wheel travel may be used by tech inspectors using a pre-programmed computer. The program converts three dimensions—distance from swingarm pivot to rear axle, to lower shock mount and top shock mount—to show the amount of travel of the shock shaft plus 50 percent of the rubber bumper. Due to the use of non-standard or different types rubber bumpers, this
check may be overridden by the tech inspector’s discretion. Manual measurement of shock movement is the overriding factor in determining whether a shock is legal.

[motomaniac]

So the sales brochures exagerated the suspension travel, thats odd, they usually quote horsepower & weight quite accurately

I was dissapointed to see this bike out front though & thought long & hard about protesting it myself, after lengthy discussions with friends & officials they eventually convinced me that I can't actually protest you for not running a GMC pipe

Seriously though, you need to work on your maths, 180mm is a bit over 7 1/16"

Geoff I think that they put a sup reg in the latest GCR's that says anyone racing at Broadford must first buy a GMC pipe - too even out the competition of course .

[motomaniac]

Brad the events over , no one protested you.Move on. BFYI the GCR'S specifically mention Maicos,Huskys etc for a reason.That reason being that the nice guys who wrote the GCR's knew that the bikes that they mentioned all come off the show room floor with more than 9" travel front or rear , or front and rear.
That is why the GCR's state for these bikes to be eligable in the class they "must have travel restricters"
Also its not about measuring arcs or forks vertically .The travel is measured in a straight line between the start and finish points ie along the fork stauchion as you correctly did - result 235mm or 91/4".
The rear should be the same .Maico engineers in their wisdom made the long travel Maico usually with equall travel front and rear - its a small factor and part of the legendary handling and overall balance.
Your Maico having non original shocks might have a different length or stroke but for sure your forks are over the 9" limit for the class as you measured.
If you are still interested borrow a 1977 MXA or DirtBike were they have all the specs including suspension travel.
I dont think you need to clear your name but as Stu suggested maybe just stepdown from the high horse.
BTW 9" is Dumb but thems the rules.

[090]

Brent, as far as being on a high horse, i was backing the person that protested as at the end of the day he did the right thing for the sport in general. Being in the middle of it all and knowing what went on and reasons why, i had alot to contribute on the subject. So to can Stu. You on the other hand were not there.I think its a bit rich to tell me to move on. Part of this post was to 'clear my name' but also to make sure my bike conforms to the class. So until i am certain my bike conforms or i have a plan to fix any issues, i cant move on. Through a couple of pm's from Stu, he has relayed his way of measuring the forks . Which is to remove the fork from the bike, remove the cap and spring, and measure fully extended and fully compressed. I have done this four times to make sure i have extended the forks properly and again pushed it down as hard as possible to get an accurate measurement.
The measurements are, 478mm extended and 260mm compressed. The difference is 218mm which is still just over 8.5 ". So there was a difference between on the bike and off the bike.

The travel is measured in a straight line between the start and finish points ie along the fork stauchion as you correctly did - result 235mm or 91/4"

That measurement was from seal wiper to bottom of triple clamp. With the forks compressed they bottomed 28mm before the bottom of the triple clamp, so it has to be subtracted from the 235mm.
One thing that stu has said is that the air caps are for a 78 as the 77 has the old style with no air. So that means that at least the staunchings are also 78. So that will have to be changed.I would like air caps still so hopefully there is a period mod i can buy.