MX tracks and double jumps.

[number8]

I'm getting the feeling that we're no longer allowed to say what we think of anything if it somehow has anything to do with The Nats, Connondale or anything else being added to the taboo list.... How about some of you others getting a grip? 

Every body is entitled to an opinion,there like assholes every bodies got one,and no Connondale is not exempt from criticism,if it were deserved the bottom line is that was a safe track,and would have complied with MA requirements fully unlike some,and should not be compared to other potential death traps that are around and causing very serious injury,there is absolutely no comparison.

#8

[NSR]

414 you can and do say anything you like over & over again.
Funny I got the impression from you and motomaniac that everything VMX was fantastic in Victoria, now were told the tracks are no good and MA have to run the Nats for you.  Even better now that protesting anything is BS you can now ride your EVO in another class . 
Cheers
Noel

[Mick22]

Just received a copy of the latest "Venue Standards" from MAV which despite what they told me on the phone is a MA document.

Motocross
4.4.8 Obstacles
4.4.8.1 Jumps:
a) There will be no multiple jumps
b) Jumps should not exceed 3m in height
c) When approving jumps consideration must be given to the age and ability of competitors

4.4.8.2 Table Top Jumps:
An obsticle with a flat surfacewith a minimum length of 3 metres and a maximum length of 18metres

4.4.8.3 Whoop Section: Two or more rounded obsticles with a maximum height of 0.6 metres, a minimum distance between crests of 3 metres and a maximum distance between crests of 6 metres

[marshallmech]

I can't believe conondale was brought up in this thread
Cheers
Noel  

I cant beleive you could put this in people were having a disscussion about the safty of tracks
and becuase conodale was brought up you post shit like this.
Ma is the controling body its up to them who runs a meeting we have no say in what they do
so stop bashing victoria and its people and forking grow up.
The way people are acting on this forum its a wonder the sport is still going.

[Mick22]

Broadford also has a tunnel/bridge it will be interesting to see if that has been closed..

One has been cut out of the layout and the remaining tunnel has been blocked off

[NSR]

I cant beleive you could put this in people were having a disscussion about the safty of tracks
and becuase conodale was brought up you post shit like this.

Yeh your right this is an important subject and that was a thow back to another thread. 
All yours, hope you have a win
Cheers
Noel   

[suzukimx]

READING THIS THREAD--and thinking (which always gets me in trouble)--are we just a little luckier here in the N.E. area of the USA- ??--after 42 years of racing-now riding--i can speak with a little knowledge (thinking)--have seen this evolve from grass tracks/natural tracks to the crap that is out there today--this being my first year of retirement (from work)--i have been attending more than the normal amount of events and have found that where in the past some of the modern tracks had man made junk that you could ride /or roll--but now it seems if you try to roll a large double some yahoo is gonna jump over you--so i think i will do these doubles--riding pre 1975 125/100s mind you---( 14 year old mind in a 63 year old body)--so i man up and start doing the doubles--result--wrecked rear hubs--go to more modern solid type hubs ( not sure of the legal aspect--but my safty)-wrecked internals in the motor--and most of our events have modern support classes--(another issue)--but we have a choice here--our main pre 75 ORG.--has in the past few years started a trend of going back to natural grass tracks-last week with another ORG we had a event--vintage evo modern held at SOUTHWICK 338 on the pro-national track--all natural and all SAND--to my knowledge the ambulance never moved all day--the event at BROOME TIOGA in NY  which was a AHRMA NAT..for the pre 1975 bikes was held on a great natural grass track using their modern starting gate--and then going off the track up the hill above for the grass track--ambulance parked all day !!--earlier in the year a regional event at a very wet and muddy LAWTON PA--PART#1

[suzukimx]

PART#2-same deal--ambulance parked all day---SO i have made the choice that if the track is such that i feel that i  can not ride it and enjoy it then i will go elsewhere--we have three AHRMA NE events left this year--one is an all natural track event put on by the BEAR CREEK RIDERS (was home to the world enduro)--another back in LAWTON PA and one more at BT again on the natural grass track--there are one or two tracks in the area that are  for modern racing but have a vintage/evo class--that can be ridden safely on a vinatge (pre 75) bike--careful in practice as they are not seperated--i guess we have more choices here??--but my money is gonna follow the tracks that give me a safe place to ride my pre 75 stuff--and the real mind changer--(wished i knew how to post pictures)-was going on a website of a local track and seeing the new graphics that a guy had made for his modern bike--he had taken his x-rays from the last big get off and had them made into a set of graphics--and wanted the people looking at the pictures to see if they could count all the PINS and SCREWS in HIM --so i know what i am gonna do--if its not grass/natural or safe--then its not for me---but we have our winter coming so we have our ice racing---no worry of jumps there--have a friend in BRISBANE-maybe i can talk DOC into posting those GRAPHICS--thanks for the time--and i have my answer !! cheers as you would say--buzzymx45

[DR]

the Xray machine as referred to in above post

[All Things 414]

Funny I got the impression from you and motomaniac that everything VMX was fantastic in Victoria, now were told the tracks are no good and MA have to run the Nats for you.  Even better now that protesting anything is BS you can now ride your EVO in another class . 

I never claimed the tracks were perfect here. I said the racing is.  We have bigger classes, happier riders and more of them. So there. 

As it stands fella I think protesting someone over a set of forks and bar clamps is the type of crap I've come to expect from a lot of you people here. Utter and complete bullshit. Especially when a person has driven 2000km's to compete in an event and then be liabled a cheat!

As for the not being able to ride an Evo bike in pre-85........

please quote this passage to me from the GCR's

[All Things 414]

Yeah, yeah, I'm sending the thread sideways. Big deal!
I just can't get over this whole protesting business. In racing motocross. Of any sort.

I can sort of understand protesting if someone was passed under a yellow flag or kicked off their bike (they probably deserved it) but over a machine technicallity it just leaves me floored!
2mm this, rubber that, fuel tank off of this, can't ride this bike in that. It's just all so petty.

Can you imagine what the next set of Nats will be like after this? You'll be lucky if there's no less than three assualts and the riot squad called.
These guys protesting over this shit should be thrown into a Kings Cross Lezzo bikie cess-pit........

[Graeme M]

Sheesh! How can we possibly go from talking about tracks to protests at the Nats? Back to track safety etc, it's been an interesting read so far. I like the X-Ray graphics too - yow!

As far as tracks go, I am of the opinion it's both the minority of influential members who want to give their kids the right grounding, BUT also the young kids for whom riding a dirtbike now is BIG jumps. You only have to watch Youtube to see that.

I totally agree regarding the fact that natural terrain tracks are safer, more fun and more rewarding, especially for gumbies like me. Sadly in Australia we don't have a lot of tracks, and those we do have need to deliver for a small number of people. But I think clubs would be surprised at the response from riders if they made their tracks a bit more general purpose.

[Gerard De Ruyter (Twistandshout)]

Doc, that x-ray YZF is one cool bike!  How'd the dude know that x-rays would make for some very arty graphics???  He should market them they look that good.

Re big jumps, well, we all know the ACT track now has them, as do many club MX tracks now.  And while i don't do em much justice, its clear it took all of one rec ride day for most of the other club members (yes, the younger ones particularly), to take to em like ducks to water.  Every event, I watch em fly over one then another then another.  They never come off, never look scared, never look out of control, and really just makes you wonder what all the fuss is about.  Each tabletop also has a small rise or dip two thirds along for slow coaches like me, to allow for a softer landing if you don't go the whole distance, so they're safe as really.  Just not that easy if on old bike.

The worst thing about it all to me is that so much time in the air means you're not accelerating.  So average lap times have come down I suspect....and its harder to pass, once everyone jumps them the whole distance.

[number8]

The other interesting aspect of the Track design and construction,is that some of the younger riders have become very skilled the ones that have'nt been seriously hurt that is,however there race skills have sufferd badly things like good line selection,race craft and even the ability to ride around off camber turns is disapearing and this is a shame,

I just recenctly witnessed at the last Round of the Aust Mx Championships another alarming crash in the Pro lites of the start they enter the first turn then travel down about 20-30m and into a 2 stage long table top it was one of the most spectacular jumps I have ever seen with riders 4-5m in the air,but to have 40+ riders hitting it after the first turn was a recipie for disaster and unfortunatly it happend in the last Moto and Luke George the 08 Champion went down hard after he either clipped some one or some one clipped him in the air it was not a good look for the sport as he lay on the track motionless,he was taken to Hospital and later Air lifted to another Hospital and put in an induced coma,he has since come out of it and I hope that all is well for him and his family,The point is there was nothing wrong with the jump it was just in the wrong spot,I would like to think that if the lay out of this track was thought out a bit better the accident of this nature could have been minimised,and If some one with the right experience had been involved with it's lay out and construction,then I would hope once again that the possble dangers could have once again been minimised,Then the last part of the eqation is a MA track inspector with enough knowledge to look at the big picture and make the hard decisions where necesary,to minimise the possibilities of what happend at this venue happening again,It's been said a zillion times "Racing is Dangerous" but collectivly let's not make it any more dangerous than it needs to be.

The other problem for Pro and want to be Pro's is that a lot are being hurt on private practice tracks here and overseas ,that they are training on as they try to develop ther skills to handle The Jump fest tracks that are so prominate these days,whats the answer I am not sure but I guess if the race tracks were calmed down there would not be a need to practice bigger and longer jumping technics?

#8

[Mick22]

I guess my answer is motocross is motocross and SX is SX.

If they are putting SX type obstacles on MX tracks why do they have a seperate licence endorsement for SX.

If young blokes want the challenge of a more technical track with bigger jumps and gaps to clear thats fine by me, but there is already a place for it - SX. Why stuff up the existing MX tracks so they end up being neither one thing or the other.