Not monoshocked

[Nathan S]

VMX42, I see your point but it still offends me that people are re-inventing old bikes in the name of 'historic' racing - doubly when they are performing major, difficult to reverse, modifications to the bikes.
This is not history, no matter how you look at it.

Everything becomes rare and valuable in time (tried to buy a decent XA Falcon recently?). For a dirt bike to survive to an age when it is already rare, and then get hacked up to fit into some ill-conceived rules, seems incredibly short-sighted to me.

[DR]

3 questions

1. these bikes are nowhere even near this country so why is everyone getting there hackles up

2. aren't people allowed to use some creativity to build their bikes how they like

3. your absolute pride and joy is literally being picked to pieces would you not be offended

if we were all sucked into the main stream and excepted all rules were not to be broken then it would be a pretty crappy world, individualism and creativity would be lost and you'd simply become a puppet. You'd just be manipulated into living someone elses ideals (or building someone elses dream) and not your own.

[firko]

I was finished with this but I awoke this morning to find that my comments have upset some folks, especially Doc. So here goes....

1. these bikes are nowhere even near this country so why is everyone getting there hackles up

Where the bikes are is irrelevent. They were presented on this forum to incite opinions and I've offered mine. As I've replied to Jeff on the RM Suzuki thread, what's more important here is the right to have an opinion. I've merely offered a differing opinion to yours Chris, nothing more. It's obviously upset you but that was far from my intention.

2. aren't people allowed to use some creativity to build their bikes how they like

They most certainly are and I gladly admit that this bloke and others like him have been extremely creative. The big question though is Why have they been so creative? De engineering a bike isn't a sane thing to do unless you have a reason to do so. The reason in these bike's case is to take advantage of loopholes in the inadequately formatted Euro Twin Shock rules. It wouldn't take a lot of research to find similar criticism of these bikes from other Twin Shock racing fans and racers in Europe and the UK. If these bikes were being built for any other reason I wouldn't really care. I do care when they are used to undermine what should be a simple set of rules for a simple VMX class.

your absolute pride and joy is literally being picked to pieces would you not be offended

Yeah I probably would but that's not the point. I've been building 'left field' bikes since VMX started and have always hoped that people liked the bikes but have reluctantly agreed that sometimes I'm not going to please everybody. (I built a fluro Pink Maico FFS!) I'd like to think our Belgian/Dutch friends would be used to any criticisms by now.

if we were all sucked into the main stream and excepted all rules were not to be broken then it would be a pretty crappy world, individualism and creativity would be lost and you'd simply become a puppet. You'd just be manipulated into living someone elses ideals (or building someone elses dream) and not your own.

I couldn't agree more strongly. Individuality is the key to our enjoyment in every facet of life. It's what makes us individuals. Individuality also alows us to offer a different opinion to what others may think, it's the very foudation of our free society. Where our mate has the perfect right to do whatever he chooses with his bike, I also have the right to voice my opinion of it on an open forum.

[Marc.com]

You can take any old four-stroke and make a real Frankenstein and nobody comments - or some dodgy old US '70s frame kit - or some nickel plated $20K UK wonder [where nothing in the kit actually fits, including the engine and you have to have it replated after it is FIXED] - but chop up a common old Yamaha or 2 and you guys arc up.

Hell if everything fitted together without welding and shagging about building bikes would lose the challenge.

Im with firko, recycling a pile of old XL bits is one thing, reverse engineering potentialy good pre 85/90 of or modern class bikes is an abomination allowed by messed up regulations.

I am not saying the bikes are not well built and attractive, just messed up

[DR]

nah I'm not upset Firko, not at all I'm only expressing my opinion also even though I harbour no intentions of ever building anything remotely like it. I'm just saying the bike is a nice thing, I don't care much about any politics that surround vmx or the loopholes it may be aimed at, I ride and build bikes because I love toying with them and they're not built to conform to anyone visions but my own. When I looked at the pictures of these Yamaha's and the Suzuki's in the other post all I saw was a nice bike that someone has put a lot of effort into and I appreciate having the opportunity to see such handywork. In others eyes it maybe considered a cheats bike and then others may feel it's a total WOFTAM but I wasn't taking any rule book into account, I was simply admiring what I think is a nice bike I don't feel there is any threat to VMX in Oz simply by looking at what alternatives other countries allow or don't allow.

[Graeme M]

I think there's two schools of thought here. One is that the bikes are actually pretty neat. They look great, they are different, and they'be been built well. I'd be happy to have one in my garage just for the wow factor (or the insults if I took it riding  ). There was certainly no shortage of weird backyard engineering going on in the 70s.

The other point of view is that the bikes are an abomination before the eyes of God insofar as Vintage MX goes. To take a perfectly good late model (in VMX terms) motorcycle that is historically correct and relevant and hack it to bits to fit into some class of racing whose rules were never correctly defined is absurd.

They are entertaining diversions, but they aren't vintage motocrossers.

[vmx42]

I know I just can't help myself, so one more thing…

I think you guys are overstating the facts when you say the bikes have been hacked to bits… a new YZ frame [and assuming you kept the other bits] and you could have the bike back to standard before you know it.

And if you don't have the frame, Geoff Morris could get it back to standard without raising a sweat. All the other parts are still just YZ bits [yeah, yeah I know the tank and seat are different too] but most of the mods are confined to the rear suspension.

Now if you could fit an XT/TT500 engine in it… well… you could offend even more people. Actually I bet they wouldn't even comment on the fate of the original donor bike??

Enough now, time to consider the worlds other problems…
VMX42

But I would love to know who is building the fuel tanks. I want one!!

[vmx42]

Not so much strange, but interesting.
Except for this.......now THAT is strange.

Maybe the Dutch guys haven't gone far enough? Look to those crazy US Maico guys to take it to the next level…

Nobody commented on the subtle engine modifications, but that single-shock conversion will raise the hackles of the twin-shock purists.

But I have no doubt it would only take a few minutes to convert back standard?     

[Graeme M]

Yeah, but that's a hillclimber isn't it? And everyone knows about hillclimbers. So that doesn't count, we just smiled indulgently and shook our heads. But bloody Dutch "twinshock" bikes, that's a whole different ball game!

[vmx42]

Maybe there are Hillbillies and Moonshine in Holland?

Come on give a guy an inch will ya??

You have to say that they have buggered [and that is being very, very polite] a classic VMXer and therefore should be hung-drawn and quartered just like the Dutchies. Come on!!!

[NSR]

OK
Love em or hate em
would they handle better?
It would be interesting with such a change in weight distribution.
Cheers
Noel

[firko]

Yeah, but that's a hillclimber isn't it? And everyone knows about hillclimbers

The 1500cc Maico triple engine is an ongoing experiment by Maico "Nutty Professor" Jim McCabe. The engine is intended for a salt racing Bonneville speed trial bike but he stuck it in a stock frame purely for a shit stir at (I think) Mid Ohio.

[vmx42]

But why is he a lovable 'Nutty Professor' and yet the Dutchies should be 'first up against the wall' when the revolution comes?

I know who is the bigger butcher!!     

And how does he lean it over to tickle his triple Bings?

[firko]

You're having trouble letting go of this aren't you?

[vmx42]

you guys won't give an inch will ya??