Author Topic: Not monoshocked  (Read 8901 times)

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firko

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Re: Not monoshocked
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2009, 11:56:30 am »

I don't know if you're taking the piss here Jeff. I can never tell with you :-\.
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I was wrong, they come from Belgium
Holland, Belgium, the Vatican, who cares where they come from. It's what they are that matters.
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You can take any old four-stroke and make a real Frankenstein and nobody comments
True Jeff but most of those bikes a based on a historic precedent. They're built to replicate a bike or "concept" from a particular time in our sports history.
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or some dodgy old US '70s frame kit - or some nickel plated $20K UK wonder [where nothing in the kit actually fits, including the engine and you have to have it replated after it is FIXED]
I don't see that this point is relevent in the context of the topic but in short...see previous answer.
To enlarge on your comment although it's really got nothing to do with the subject, on what do you base your assumptions that "nothing in the kit actually fits, including the engine and you have to have it replated after it is FIXED]" Have you had much experience building such bikes that enables you to make such a broad generalisation?
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but chop up a common old Yamaha or 2 and you guys arc up
It's not the chopping up of old Yamahas that's distasteful, it's the stretching of the original "Twin Shock" race class concept by modifying bikes to fit into a class for which they were never eligible in their original configuration. This situation has been discussed ad infinitum in the UK and it's a given that these kind of bikes weren't envisioned in the original Twin Shock concept. The class developed to cater for bikes that were equipped with twin shock rear suspension from the factory.
I know myself and other detractors look at thes bikes from an Aussie perspective and realise that the rules they race under are vastly different to ours but I think that by allowing such a loose interpretation of the twin shock concept they run the chance of pushing the legally (morally)eligible bikes away due to them not being able to compete on a 'level playing field' with the Hot Rod bikes.

 





All Things 414

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Re: Not monoshocked
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2009, 12:02:11 pm »
I find myself in total agreement with my old chum 414  ;).

Jupiter, Saturn and Uranus must be aligned again..... :P

The sexiest part of a YZ e, f or g would have to be those mono-shock swing-arms. I thought the attraction of VMX was riding bikes from the era. Imagine if you'd done this to your YZ 250 G or your '83 RM 250 back then? Fark! You'd be the laughing stock of the racing fraternity. Sure they look 'worksy' but so does Bob Hanna's OW (whatever the fug number they give it) YZ.
As I say. I think the engineering that went into these things would have been better spent on building something of use. Like an asylum to lock these lunitics up in.....
« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 12:05:35 pm by All Things 414 »

All Things 414

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Re: Not monoshocked
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2009, 12:11:08 pm »
I've watched enough Dr Who to know that if you try and change history, bad things happen (you'll get chased by Daleks for a start...).

Offline vmx42

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Re: Not monoshocked
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2009, 12:44:33 pm »
HI Firko,
Sorry if I sound like I was taking the piss. Not so, I thought I was quite clear… I like them. They look great and are simply one mans interpretation of the rules in his country. The Dutch or Belgium VMX police can take it from there to determine their legality.

And no, I haven't built a nickel plated British wonder [and I doubt I ever will - but 'never say never'], but I have listened to the rants of owners who tear their hair out with stories of misaligned motor mounts, brake pedals that don't clear the foot pegs and a litany of other complaints. These bikes have a certain rustic charm and a great place in MX history, but don't you think they could address their quality control. After all they have been making the same bikes for 40 years - but then again that is why the British industry failed in the first place. I seem to remember you having a go at Simon Cheney about this very thing not that long ago, so  I can't be too far off the mark. And if you wish to exclude all 'broad generalisations' then posts on this site will be very few and far between, I don't think I have offended anybody and I certainly didn't intend to.

The chance of a grid full of this kind of bike polluting the Aussie VMX race scene is about a likely as me building something British. So I wouldn't worry about bikes that are 12,000 miles away.

As I said, 'viva la difference'.

At least I have you and 414 agreeing on something. That makes it all worthwhile.
VMX42

P.S. and 414, I am more worried about the Sontarans than the Daleks…
When a woman says "What?", it's not because she didn't hear you, she's giving you the chance to chance to change what you said.

Beam me up Scotty, no intelligent life down here…

"everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not to their own facts"

Offline Nathan S

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Re: Not monoshocked
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2009, 12:45:28 pm »
Maybe the rule's are wrong not the bikes.
  

This is the real point: People are hacking up bikes to fit into a stupid definition that has SFA to do with the racing of 'historic'/classic/old/vintage motorbikes.

It still astounds me that large groups of people can be stuck on the strict definition of "Twin Shock", particularly when "No Linkage" has been proven to work in other places around the world.
FFS, nobody was upset by cantilever Yamahas in 1980, so why exclude them from racing against similar age bikes in 2009??? And besides, its not like the Yamaha monoshock was the best rear suspension system of the day (1975, maybe - 1980, definitely not).

« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 12:50:56 pm by Nathan S »
The good thing about telling the truth is that you don't have to remember what you said.

firko

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Re: Not monoshocked
« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2009, 12:58:58 pm »
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And no, I haven't built a nickel plated British wonder [and I doubt I ever will - but 'never say never'], but I have listened to the rants of owners who tear their hair out with stories of misaligned motor mounts, brake pedals that don't clear the foot pegs and a litany of other complaints. These bikes have a certain rustic charm and a great place in MX history, but don't you think they could address their quality control. After all they have been making the same bikes for 40 years - but then again that is why the British industry failed in the first place. I seem to remember you having a go at Simon Cheney about this very thing not that long ago, so  I can't be too far off the mark. And if you wish to exclude all 'broad generalisations' then posts on this site will be very few and far between, I don't think I have offended anybody and I certainly didn't intend to.
True in some cases but not true in others...that's what happens with broad generalisations. I have four American aftermarket frames and the components go together perfectly. They're engineered properly and I doubt very much that you'll find anyone complaining about dodgy workmanship. The poms do leave a little to be desired as far as quality control but, and I make the point again....What has this to do with a bunch of Belgians reinventing the history of motocross?
Zero. I just don't get your point or the point to these bikes.
As far as Mr Nimmo and I agreeing? I feel all warm and fuzzy and now feel the need to go out and pat a puppy. :-*
« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 01:00:52 pm by firko »

Offline Freakshow

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Re: Not monoshocked
« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2009, 01:04:01 pm »
414 - its the cyberman that will get ya.  They come to you..............
74 Yamaha YZ's - 75 Yamaha YZ's
74 Yamaha  flattracker's
70  Jawa 2 valve speedway's

For sale -  PRE 75 Yamaha MX stuff, frame, motors and parts also some YAM DT1,2,A and Suzi TS bikes and stuff

firko

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Re: Not monoshocked
« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2009, 01:06:32 pm »
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This is the real point: People are hacking up bikes to fit into a stupid definition that has SFA to do with the racing of 'historic'/classic/old/vintage motorbikes.
Nathan sees it as I see it too. I think the strict twin shock designation has come back to shoot them in the foot. The rules would have been better served to allow the Yamaha monoshock which as Nathan observes wasn't any better than anything else available, including 1975.

Offline vmx42

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Re: Not monoshocked
« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2009, 01:11:17 pm »
Nathan,
Yes, you are correct, maybe the rules are wrong and not the bikes. But if the Dutch or Belgians are happy [with their rules] then good luck to them. If that gets them out on VMX bikes on the weekend then how can it be bad.

IMHO, I just like the bikes. They are simply one mans interpretation of what the factories would have built if they continued with twin shocks. If he enjoys building them, then that is great. I don't feel threatened by them and I don't think that anybody else should be either. Maybe [just maybe] these were the type of bikes he wished for 'back in the day' but couldn't afford to make back then…

I love his creativity and hope he continues his involvement in VMX for a long time. If that makes me some kind of pariah in the OZ VMX racing scene then I can live with that.
VMX42
When a woman says "What?", it's not because she didn't hear you, she's giving you the chance to chance to change what you said.

Beam me up Scotty, no intelligent life down here…

"everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not to their own facts"

All Things 414

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Re: Not monoshocked
« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2009, 01:13:42 pm »
As far as Mr Nimmo and I agreeing? I feel all warm and fuzzy and now feel the need to go out and pat a puppy. :-*
I just shot mine.......

And Freaky's right. Cybermen are far scarier than any of the other baddies. As for Sultarens, there's a guy in VIPER who's a spitting image of one when he takes his helmet off. True. We were down at Barrabool one day and he takes his helmet off and........

firko

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Re: Not monoshocked
« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2009, 01:18:46 pm »
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I love his creativity and hope he continues his involvement in VMX for a long time
And therein lies "le difference". Call it what you like but this isn't VMX. VMX exists to celebrate and recreate various eras of our sports history, not reinvent or create something that never existed in the first place.....back to the puppy.

Offline vmx42

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Re: Not monoshocked
« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2009, 02:26:54 pm »
Well Firko, you had better get over to the Suzuki thread and put them straight as well…

God knows what they are thinking but it obvious that the heretics are loose in the asylum and need putting back in their cells. We wouldn't want any freedom of thought, or opinion would we!!
VMX42
When a woman says "What?", it's not because she didn't hear you, she's giving you the chance to chance to change what you said.

Beam me up Scotty, no intelligent life down here…

"everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not to their own facts"

firko

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Re: Not monoshocked
« Reply #27 on: July 28, 2009, 03:44:38 pm »
Why so sensetive Jeff? I'm merely offering up another opinion, that's all. Am I some sort of bad guy because I don't share your opinion on these Belgian motofreaks? I think you'll find I'm not alone.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 04:09:02 pm by firko »

shoey

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Re: Not monoshocked
« Reply #28 on: July 28, 2009, 03:57:07 pm »
IMO , they look much better than the old monoshocks.

I say , hack em up , build twin shockers.


Offline JC

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Re: Not monoshocked
« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2009, 04:12:32 pm »
So do I.

Only monos I ever really liked was the YZ-B & a couple of 70's OWs.

Love the yellow one above.