Author Topic: MX250a Clutch Spring confusion  (Read 3496 times)

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Motoman

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MX250a Clutch Spring confusion
« on: June 22, 2009, 10:48:14 am »
Hopefully someone can help clear some confusion I am dealing with in regards to clutch springs for my 1974 MX250. When I bought the bike the seller said there seemed to be a problem with the clutch. He looked at the plates etc and everything looked OK. I went on the first ride on the bike last week and while the bike was great in every other way, the clutch did act strange. Taking advice from the seller I went to put new clutch springs in this weekend. I searched a number of Yamaha parts web sites and am confident that the part number for these springs is 90501-20122. When I measured the original springs I removed the length was around 34mm. the NEW springs measure around 32mm. The seller sent me a copy of an owners manual saying the effective length for MX250 should be 36mm!

The springs I removed were a yellow cover and the new springs green. On the drawings I found on all web sites it also shows another spring part number with no explanation of their differences. This part number is 90501-20361.  I have installed the shorter springs which according to my web site research are the correct springs for this bike. The clutch engaged OK going slightly forward in the confines of my tiny back yard and when the lever was pulled the clutch works normally. I am hoping that the springs I have installed are correct. My concern is that the manual the seller gave me said 36mm length.

Could it be that the clutch was not acting normally when I rode it was because the springs were too long? Could the manual have been changed? Could the bike have a non standard clutch and someone put longer springs in it to use this clutch?  I did not count plates when I opened the gear box so can not confirm if it has the normal number of plates and spacers.

Can anyone shed some light on what is going on here? My plan at this time is to race the bike, (will do practice and see how it goes, not ride if there is a big problem) and if there is a problem try to source some 36mm springs and try that. Hopefully I have either missed something obvious or one of you highly respected and knowledgeable forum members can help me out, (which would be greatly appreciated!)

Thanks

Offline cyclegod

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Re: MX250a Clutch Spring confusion
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2009, 10:55:21 am »
I used a heavy duty spring kit for an air-cooled RD350/400 as they are the same as the MX250A. It works very well and does not feel too heavy at all.
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Motoman

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Re: MX250a Clutch Spring confusion
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2009, 11:50:55 am »
Thanks for that. Looking at yamaha parts catalogue for a 1974 RD350A the clutch spring is the "unknown" spring I mentioned, (90501-20361). In the MX250A parts breakdown 2 springs are mentioned that one and the 32mm springs I bought.

I guess that's a heavy duty version for MX250A and I bought the standard version? There was a significant price difference, (in US prices so will have difference here as well). Not a big outlay and I would buy more springs if I have the wrong ones. I wonder if the length is the same? The springs I bought were in stock in a local (Sydney) Yamaha shop.


Offline jimg1au

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Re: MX250a Clutch Spring confusion
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2009, 12:06:36 pm »
Part # = 90501-20361-00
Part Description = SPRING (400)
Model Count = 31
DT125C 1976 125 DT125 Dual Purpose
DT175C 1976 175 DT175 Dual Purpose
IT175D 1977 175 IT175 Dual-Purpose
IT175E 1978 175 IT175 Dual-Purpose
IT175F 1979 175 IT175 Dual-Purpose
IT175G 1980 175 IT175 Dual-Purpose
IT175H 1981 175 IT175 Dual-Purpose
IT175J 1982 175 IT175 Dual-Purpose
IT175K 1983 175 IT175 Dual-Purpose
MX125C 1976 125 MX125 Off-Road
MX360A 1974 360 MX360 Off-Road
YZ100C 1976 100 YZ100 Competition Motocross
YZ100D 1977 100 YZ100 Competition Motocross
YZ100E 1978 100 YZ100 Competition Motocross
YZ100F 1979 100 YZ100 Competition Motocross
YZ100G 1980 100 YZ100 Competition Motocross
YZ100H 1981 100 YZ100 Competition Motocross
YZ100J 1982 100 YZ100 Competition Motocross
YZ100K 1983 100 YZ100 Competition Motocross
YZ125C 1976 125 YZ125 Competition Motocross
YZ125D 1977 125 YZ125 Competition Motocross
YZ125E 1978 125 YZ125 Competition Motocross
YZ125G 1980 125 YZ125 Competition Motocross
YZ125H 1981 125 YZ125 Competition Motocross
YZ125J 1982 125 YZ125 Competition Motocross
YZ125K 1983 125 YZ125 Competition Motocross
YZ125L 1984 125 YZ125 Competition Motocross
YZ125N 1985 125 YZ125 Competition Motocross
YZ125X 1976 125 YZ125X Competition Motocross
YZ80E1 1993 80 YZ80 Competition Motocross
YZ80F1 1994 80 YZ80 Competition Motocross
Part # = 90501-20122-00
Part Description = SPRING
Model Count = 51
AS2C 1970 125 AS2C Street Scambler Street
DT125A 1974 125 DT125 Dual Purpose
DT125B 1975 125 DT125 Dual Purpose
DT1B 1969 250 DT1 Dual Purpose
DT1C 1970 250 DT1 Dual Purpose
DT1C-MX 1970 250 DT1MX Dual Purpose
DT1E 1971 250 DT1 Dual Purpose
DT1MX 1971 250 DT1MX Dual Purpose
DT1S 1969 250 DT1S Dual Purpose
HT1 1970 90 HT1 Street
HT1B 1971 90 HT1 Street
HT1BM 1971 90 HT1BM Dual-Purpose
IT125G 1980 125 IT125 Dual-Purpose
IT125H 1981 125 IT125 Dual-Purpose
JT2 1972 60 JT2 Dual-Purpose
JT2MX 1972 60 JT2MX Motocross
MX125A 1974 125 MX125 Off-Road
MX125B 1975 125 MX125 Off-Road
MX175A 1974 175 MX175 Off-Road
MX175B 1975 175 MX175 Off-Road
MX250A 1974 250 MX250 Off-Road
RD200A 1974 200 RD200 Street
RD200B 1975 200 RD200 Street
RD200C 1976 200 RD200 Street
RS100B 1975 100 RS100 Street
RS100C 1976 100 RS100 Street
RT1 1970 360 RT1 Off-Road
RT1M 1970 360 RT1M Off-Road
RX50K 1983 50 RX50 50 Special Street
RX50L 1984 50 RX50 50 Special Street
RX50MK 1983 50 RX50 Midnight Special Street
YAS1C 1968 125 YAS1C 125 Twin Scrambler Street
YCS1 1967 180 YCS1 Bonanza 180 Street
YCS1C 1968 180 YCS1C 180 Street Scambler Street
YSR50A 1990 50 YSR50 Street
YSR50B 1991 50 YSR50 Street
YSR50D 1992 50 YSR50 Street
YSR50T 1987 50 YSR50 Street
YSR50U 1988 50 YSR50 Street
YSR50W 1989 50 YSR50 Street
YSR80A 1990 80 YSR80 Street
YSR80B 1991 80 YSR80 Street
YZ125A 1974 125 YZ125 Competition Motocross
YZ125B 1975 125 YZ125 Competition Motocross
YZ125F 1979 125 YZ125 Competition Motocross
YZ80A 1974 80 YZ80 Competition Motocross
YZ80C 1976 80 YZ80 Competition Motocross
YZ80D 1977 80 YZ80 Competition Motocross
YZ80E 1978 80 YZ80 Competition Motocross
YZ80F 1979 80 YZ80 Competition Motocross
YZ80G 1980 80 YZ80 Competition Motocross

Motoman

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Re: MX250a Clutch Spring confusion
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2009, 12:40:05 pm »
Thanks Jim,
Your list does confirm I bought the correct spring. I guess I will have to try it out next race in a few weeks and hope all is well so I can ride both bikes.

It is still a puzzle why the manual says for MX250 the length is 36mm? Maybe the springs were mislabeled by Yamaha I got are wrong ones? Thing is though 5 came in one pack with the correct part number and one came in a second bag with the correct part number. The clutch felt like it is engaging OK as I said. Maybe the manual is not for my model?

What implications would there be with a spring which is too long I wonder? They main issue when I rode it was in 3rd or 4th gear there was a couple of quick higher pitched engine sounds like something slipped. It was not wheel spin. There was no burning smell from the clutch and everything including the oil looked OK when I opened it up. The bike should have been quicker too....I don't think I was getting enough drive out of it.



Offline jimg1au

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Re: MX250a Clutch Spring confusion
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2009, 12:49:55 pm »
my mx parts list tells me this is the correct spring for 250
Part # = 183-16333-70-00
Part Description = Replacement Number = 90501-20123-00 *
Model Count = 14
DT2MX 1972 250 DT2MX Dual Purpose
R5 1970 350 R5 Street
R5B 1971 350 R5 Street
R5C 1972 350 R5 Street
RD250 1973 250 RD250 Street
RD250A 1974 250 RD250 Street
RD250B 1975 250 RD250 Street
RD350 1973 350 RD350 Street
RD350A 1974 350 RD350 Street
RD350B 1975 350 RD350 Street
RT1B 1971 360 RT1 Off-Road
RT1MX 1971 360 RT1MX Off-Road
SC500 1973 500 SC500 Off-Road
SC500A 1974 500 SC500 Off-Road

Motoman

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Re: MX250a Clutch Spring confusion
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2009, 12:51:52 pm »
you mean RD350 don't you?

Motoman

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Re: MX250a Clutch Spring confusion
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2009, 12:55:09 pm »
In fact the manual I got shows a SC500 or something similar on the cover but mentions MX250 in the clutch section. I think I am on the right track and perhaps the wrong springs were in there for some time. The previous owner didn't use the motor much, only a few practice sessions and said the clutch felt wrong then.

I am hoping the long springs created that problem and putting the correct specification will fix the it. Thanks again

Offline jimg1au

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Re: MX250a Clutch Spring confusion
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2009, 12:57:53 pm »
the 360 and 250 have different clutches ie more plates different no of gear teeth ect.
i would go with the rd cprings that cg uses

Motoman

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Re: MX250a Clutch Spring confusion
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2009, 01:16:22 pm »
I am getting closer to working it out. the 1974 SC500 uses this spring:
90501-20123-00   SPRING, CLUTCH (183-16333-70).

I think the manual is wrong because it is a SC500, not MX250A manual.

Anyone know if the fact that MX250A parts breakdown shows 2 types of springs, I guess one being heavy duty one could be longer than the other (heavier spring action) or a thicker spring gauge both being the same length as each other?

I am thinking that all parts manuals for 1974 MX250 I have seen says 90501-20122 is the correct spring, (which I installed) and being as how the bike is something like 35 years old the parts manuals would have a correction IF this was the wrong spring. Unless the clutch is not standard I will be OK. What I might do is spend $20.00 getting some 36mm springs so if there is a problem on race day I can try them since it is an easy job to do, (sort of).




Offline Freakshow

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Re: MX250a Clutch Spring confusion
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2009, 04:20:39 pm »
the book your talking about list all the models and specs ? part number on the bottom 363 ?   that book was pre mxA and covered all the 73 model including the At1 etc, anyhow it cold be they found the originals springs were too soft as folks started to ride em more and they did an upgrade on the specs or did an alternate part to pick up the problem infield.   ;)  so the number in the book may be the first part number then it subbed out into other over the next year or so, may have even picked up the b series i dont know, try them all  ;D

i would have though the longer or stiffer springs would have increased pressure on the plate thus giving more force on the disks.  The old springs may be a differant tension or just lost there tension and not holding force like they used to.  put in the new springs and report, it has to be somthing to do with the pressure on the plates or the way the plates lock into each other ( such as old contaminate in the oil making a latent slip.)

if the full pressure is on the corks and it still is soft to engage it can be worth a look at how the arm is actuating as in back the daylights out of it, so there is no clutch at all, then see if it still moves under power. 

From my understanding the rest of the bits past the clutch are all gear driven with no movement, therefore the only place stuff can pick up movment is in that clutch boss area, so we have to guess its an adjustment, a plate or lack of pressure thats not quite right.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2009, 04:27:03 pm by Freakshow »
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