What is your definition of VINTAGE?

[lukeb1961]

What do YOU mean when you say 'Vintage' dirt bike ?

[TT]

I think a lot of blokes would say Pre '75, but for me it's simply air cooled, drum brakes and twin shocks. 

[All Things 414]

Shit. Here we go again..... . To me, it's simply bikes that are no longer the main-stream. You know. Your local shop just doesn't stock the bits any more and when you ask the kid behind the jump for such items he gets a glazed look in his eyes and then runs out the back giggling. As to how you fit these bikes into their respective eras, I'm fugged if I know.
But that's the easieat way to find out if it's VINTAGE. The giggle test......

[Graeme M]

VINTAGE to me... I'm with Tony, it's air cooled, twin shock, drum brakes. Say Pre 1980-ish. I used to believe it was only Pre 75, but I am relenting. That said, I love OLD dirtbikes, maybe I could call it CLASSIC? Pre 85. I don't agree that Pre 90 is CLASSIC or VINTAGE, but I wouldn't die in a ditch over that.

Of course, I realise that VINTAGE to a 30 year old would be a different thing...

[Nathan S]

I don't really like to use the word "vintage" as a technical definition - I use it to be a broad term for "old bikes".
My definition of "old bikes" fits pretty closely with AllThing414's definition.

Part of the reason that these topics get the "Shit, here we go again" response is because we acidentally get too uptight over words and their exact definition, and we lose sight of the big picture (as Graeme has obviously realised).

Look at the pre-90 debate, for example. A lot of the objections are along the lines of "But they're not vintage in the way that pre-75 bikes are", which is a fair argument.
But, like I said, its more an argument about words than about old dirt bikes - the words often confuse the real debate about which old dirt bikes have a place in the established old dirt bike movement.

NB: I'm not trying to re-ignite that discussion here, it was just an example that I used to demonstrate why we usually tie ourselves in knots when we have these discussions about what "vintage" means.

[oldfart]

I see it as a reference to an era ( all bikes ) being the best of it's time         ......twin shocks - drum brakes -air cooled

[090]

Pre 90.
My '85 model is 24 years old. A life time ago for me, back when i was eighteen.
As i have stated before , i love them all .
All depends how old you are to a degree or more so, your affection to particular bikes/ era's.
One rider i know is the same age as me and doesn't own a bike later than pre 75.
Another started racing in the 70's but prefers evo and later to race ( but has older bikes as well).
As i have said last time this question was asked, if we had different names for different eras, it wouldn't get up peoples noses as much if all older bikes were called vintage bikes. I think road race bikes have something like that.

[Graeme M]

Yep, exactly. I've always said that I think we should use some sort of naming convention, because I'd like to enshrine VINTAGE as Pre 75 (or Pre 78 at a stretch). I can't recall exactly, but Rick Doughty wrote an article on the McCook website that I think had some decent broad class names. Maybe VINTAGE (Pre 78), EVO (Pre 90) and POST EVO for anything later... Then we'd have divisions within that (ie the twinshock, drum brake 'classic' Evo, Pre 85 and Pre 90.

Anyhoo, the original question was what it means to me, and for me the significant period is 1975 to 1980-ish...

[Rosco400]

Always believed the unwritten rule was 30 years +, not like those modern Pre 85ers

[firko]

I'm with Tony and Graeme where until recent times I regarded pre 75 as real vintage. I now regard anything with twin shocks, air cooled and devoid of linkages as vintage. The later classes like pre '85 and pre 90 should be called something like 'Post Vintage' or something to seperate them from genuine vintage bikes.

And before I get accused of showing my bias against pre 85 and pre 90, I'll go on record and state that I genuinely believe that those classes have a perfect right to exist under the generic term of VMX. However, as much as I respect the right for the later classes to exist, I think it's time for them to become a seperate entity from the Evo and older divisions. There are a number of practical and cultural reasons for the seperation that I won't bother with on this particular thread but will say that, planning for the seperation should be started soon, before our sport becomes overcrowded with too many classes.

[VMX247]

I'm not scared of being racist/bias 
Any dirt bike created before December 1974.
Like wine- full bodied ,good on the nose and matured.
and yes the class's will have to be sorted sooner than later,especially for clubs running more than one/two era vmx bikes.
cheers

[YUMASTEPSIDE]

In dirttrack we refer to them as classics or moderns.........."classics" has a nice ring to it. Vintage,you tend to think of old british bikes.
To me,its the old bikes you had as a kid ( or wished you did ! )

                  Roger

[DR]

For me pre'65 is the real vintage era. 1965-'70 are post classics, '70-'78 are classics and anything after is simply an old bike. I don't look at '85-90's models as being vintage by any stretch of the imagination, would be the same as calling an early Commodore or XD Falcon a vintage car

[Graeme M]

You know, maybe it IS time to really get this issue sorted. IF we could agree on the format for VMX for the next decade, how would we go about changing it? I'd be keen to get the debate happening here, and to use 2009 as a time for pounding out the rules to satisfy most, and then see if we can implement for 2010 or 2011. It'd be good to set it in place for 2011 on. If anyone can tell me how we'd do it, I'll start a thread to do the actual discussion. I know it'd be painful, but challenging and ultimately worthwhile. I really want to enshrine VINTAGE and make Pre 85/Pre 90 a formal set of classes that have their own separate and unique identity.

[TT]

, would be the same as calling an early Commodore or XD Falcon a vintage car

I noticed in the newsagent this week, an XD Falcon on the cover of a Classic Car mag............  
The car guys seem to work loosely around 30 years as being the benchmark for it being a Classic.
3 of my 4 cars are now "Historic" as of this year